Determining Coach Commitment

As far as I know, the NLI (or LOI, as you term it) is the only surefire way a player can know he has a place on the team. (Technically, even a place on the team is not guaranteed, only athletic money from the school. And even then, the commitment is only for 1 year). However ... if your son is interested in a particular program, you can research that program and its historical commitment to "recruited walk-ons" (as your son would be classified). Also, you can research the coaches who are making the offer and find out just how reliable their word is. (If you want ideas about how to do this, PM me.) The word of some coaches is worth its weight in gold, but that is not always the case.

If your son is a valid prospect, his high academics should be a huge lure for many programs, given that they will be limited to 27 athletic money players on their rosters in the future.

Btw, welcome to High School Baseball Web!

True. His academics may make him attractive to teams looking for good players to fill slots 28-35. But the ironic thing about it is his academic record may actually be costing you athletic money. If they know he wants to go there, and that he will get substantial academic money, they will try to get you to accept an unfunded roster slot. And you may gladly do so. I guess it's not much different than the token sums they offered under the old rules. But the thought that a kid can, in essence, be penalized because of his academics really bothers me.

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Originally posted by Infield08:
If your son is a valid prospect, his high academics should be a huge lure for many programs, given that they will be limited to 27 athletic money players on their rosters in the future.

Btw, welcome to High School Baseball Web!

I would suggest that you NOT bring up the idea of an academic scholarship while talking to the coaches. See how interested they are first. If they "put their money where their mouth is" with a substantial baseball money offer, you would have your answer as to whether they see him as a kid who makes the roster and plays for them.

Besides, if you get a baseball offer, you won't have to sweat it out quite as long before finding out if financial help is coming through. Most of the academic money I've heard of is awarded very late in the game.

There are plenty of high academic schools with excellent baseball programs. They do love highly qualified students, because the last thing they want is to lose a player off their roster due to academic failure in college. But they still offer baseball scholarships. So why shouldn't your son shoot for one of those?

There's a pretty good place in Winston-Salem, NC that you may have heard of.

Others that come to mind: Stanford, Virginia, Notre Dame, Vanderbilt, UNC, So. Cal, UCLA. Maybe also Boston College; also Duke has struggled in baseball but is really trying to build a program right now.

Also, you may want to look at Princeton. They have a pretty good baseball program but no baseball scholarship money. Many of their players get academic money, though.

Nothing is really "guaranteed" other than a spot on the team. He could be a redshirt, or never even see the field. Shouldn't your son have to make it on his ability like anyone else? I'm not sure what you mean by a "solid prospect" which probably describes 101% of the children of the posters on this site, but if he is a player recruited by many colleges, you will know his "value" by the amount of the offer. With a few exceptions, the higher the value, the closer he will get to playing (which I assume is what you are really talking about).

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Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
I would suggest that you NOT bring up the idea of an academic scholarship while talking to the coaches. See how interested they are first. If they "put their money where their mouth is" with a substantial baseball money offer, you would have your answer as to whether they see him as a kid who makes the roster and plays for them.

Great suggestion!

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Originally posted by Doc_K:

quote:

Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
I would suggest that you NOT bring up the idea of an academic scholarship while talking to the coaches. See how interested they are first. If they "put their money where their mouth is" with a substantial baseball money offer, you would have your answer as to whether they see him as a kid who makes the roster and plays for them.

Great suggestion!

I agree as well, but also with those grades and a strong SAT/ACT, it will open up schools that many would not be considered for, including the Ivy's and other high academic schools mentioned by Midlo Dad. Not sure what level of play you are looking for in relationship to level of baseball.

When it comes to the coaches committment I think a lot can be found by looking at the past rosters and the number of players who leave the program

I am a big believer in gut feelings and I think when a coach is telling it like it is you will know

I agree with TRhit you really need to do some research and look the coach in the eye and straight up ask the tough questions, this is a party of three Coach, Player, and the parents - everyone has a stake in the comitment and should be held accountable.

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Originally posted by RYNO:
I agree with TRhit you really need to do some research and look the coach in the eye and straight up ask the tough questions, this is a party of three Coach, Player, and the parents - everyone has a stake in the comitment and should be held accountable.

Ryno - this appears like really good advice to me. I believe parents do have a say in things. I believe the final decision should be with the student if possible, but parents have veto power if necessary.

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Originally posted by estateadv:
My son is a high school junior and a solid propect to play college baseball. He's a terrific student. He ranks in the top 3% of his class and may graduate with a weighted GPA of about 6.0.

Given his academics, there is a strong likelihood he will receive academic aid. With that in mind, we are willing to send him to a college without receiving any athletic money. However, we want a commitment from the coach that he will make the team. Is there a way outside of a LOI for the coach to demonstrate a commitment to our son?

Welcome!
First you need to have your son's baseball talent evaluated by someone other than yourself.
With that in mind, you should sit down with your son to find out what his goals are, his intended areas of study or if he places the importance of school over baseball. Where does he want to go to school?

If you can get some info out of him, it might help in where to proceed. His grades are stellar, but regardless he must have the talent to play on the college level and there are different levels in college baseball. Many schools give opportunities without NLI, the IVY league schools for example.

You might not have to mention anything about his grades, they will ask for transcripts. With that, the coach will determine where your son will fit for a scholarship, either by way of academics or baseball money. If someone really wants your son, they will make it happen.

If you live in Florida and attend a Florida public university, your son's tuition is 100% paid. That alone is a plus if he has the talent to play for a school like UF, FSU or with that GPA he can get lots of money from UM (private).

Don't worry about looking coach in the eye you haven't gotten to that point yet. You first need to have someone be interested enough to make that offer first.

In my opinion, any coach who has actively recruited a player most likely will guarantee a spot on the roster, barring redshirt, with or with baseball money. In lieu of an NLI, the coach will give you a letter of their intentions (LOI).

Remember, it will still be up to your son to earn his position and an opportunity to make the 25 man roster.

QUOTE] Also, you may want to look at Princeton. They have a pretty good baseball program but no baseball scholarship money. Many of their players get academic money, though. [/QUOTE]

Ivy League students do not get academic or athletic money. All of the financial aid awarded to Ivy League students is based on financial need.

I am going to steer this a few degrees off course, but it is really on course 100%.

"Is there a way outside of a LOI for the coach to demonstrate a commitment to our son?"

If your goal is making the team, then you can sit the bench anywhere. I don't understand why making the team is such an accomplishment. Leading the team is probably every players goal.

It starts with demonstrating you are the best of the high school best, then best of your summer team and opponents, then you arrive at Fall ball as a Freshman, and all that is tossed out, and now you have to be better than your teammates.

If you get past that, you gotta be one of the best against your opponents. In other words, your next at bat or trip to the mound starts it all over again.

This may sound abrupt, but these coaches want to win.

Not so sure that all financial aid awarded is based on financial need (but it could be as almost everyone needs it for an Ivy); friend of mine went there on full academic scholarship, granted it could have been based on need since he would not have gone there unless he did get a full academic award as others (Mich, Texas, Virgina) were courting him wildly. He had outstanding grades and a nearly perfect SAT score -- he was just grossly smart.

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Originally posted by doctorbuzzy:
Not so sure that all financial aid awarded is based on financial need (but it could be as almost everyone needs it for an Ivy); friend of mine went there on full academic scholarship, granted it could have been based on need since he would not have gone there unless he did get a full academic award as others (Mich, Texas, Virgina) were courting him wildly. He had outstanding grades and a nearly perfect SAT score -- he was just grossly smart.

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Originally posted by rbinaz:
Ivy League students do not get academic or athletic money. All of the financial aid awarded to Ivy League students is based on financial need.

rbinaz is absolutely correct. Virtually every Ivy League student is grossly smart, so everyone would qualify for merit based money. Therefore, there is no such thing as academic or merit based money at the ivies. All financial aid is need based. No athletic money, and no academic money.

More information can be found here: http://www.collegeconfidential.com/dean/archives/000142.htm

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If your goal is making the team, then you can sit the bench anywhere. I don't understand why making the team is such an accomplishment. Leading the team is probably every players goal.

First things first. You have to make the team before you get to play on the team, much less lead the team. There are tens of thousands of high school seniors who won't be able to sit on any bench next year, be it D1, D2, D3, NAIA, or JUCO.

I agree with those who think that you ought to keep your powder dry about the academic stuff until you see what the coach's interest level is. Although the great majority of coaches are honorable people, the truth is that if your son does not sign an NLI, he is essentially a freebie for the coach. It is not different than the big leagues - the low pay guys are the easiest to get rid of.

All that said, the main determining factor is usually your ability to play, and if you can produce, the rest does not matter.

About the only real "guarantee" you'll get at any level, is a spot on the roster as a freshman. All scholarships are 1 year renewable at the school's option. Most schools orally assure that they will be renewed every year, but there are no guarantees beyond year 1. At D III's, there are no athletic scholarships, but some coaches will offer a guaranteed roster spot for the first year. Beyond that, it's got to be earned.

The reality of college baseball, at all levels, excluding pitchers, is that there are 8 positions on the field at any one time, and for every guy in one of them, there are perhaps as many as three guys ready to take that spot if the starter goes sour, and once a spot is lost, if the replacement does well, there might not be a chance to regain that spot any time soon. It can seem unfair, and there aren't always second chances, sometimes there aren't even first chances (as in playing a position where a freshman just made all-conference). It is what it is, and it's best to go into it knowing this up front.

I love college baseball and thoroughly enjoy watching my sons, but it can be an emotional roller coaster, and you just have to realize how things work and not get too whacked out one way or the other.

The original poster never asked about a guarantee. He asked how a coach could demonstrate - other than by awarding an athletic 'ship - that he has a committed interest in his son. A very valid question.

The awarding of an athletic 'ship is a way for coaches to show they truly believe the kid has a chance of contributing. It is, if you will, a demonstration of committed interest.

The coach may have an idea of the kid's grades already (e.g., through PG data). If so, the coach has an idea of the academic/merit aid the kid would receive. But it couldn't hurt to keep the grades under wrap in case the coach is unaware.

IF08 gave good advice.

Wow, thanks for all the great advice. In the end, I sounds as though you have to be able to trust the coach. My son wants to play college baseball and because of his academics might have the opportunity to chose a school not offering an athletic scholarship over one with a scholarship in hand.

not mentioning the academic advantages to your son sounds good, like not mentioning your trade-in before buying a new car, but, EVERY college coach we talked to asked within the first volley of converation "how are his academics?".

So, unless you hide the truth, that will come out very early and the coach WILL take it into consideration, if in fact your son is the type of player he is looking for.

I like TPM's advice above about most of this.

I really can't speak for other schools, but there have been plenty of players at Stanford who were on need-based aid (like the Ivies, no academic aid from the school is given) or were invited walkons who were big-time players and contributors.

Some of the 'rules-of-thumb' being discussed here about coach commitment based on athletic aid just don't apply in the same ways there.

As a simple example, Stanford now has a policy that if the family income is $45K or less, the tuition is free. Since this is available to every student, it is also available to athletes. I cannot imagine any of their coaches (football, basketball, baseball, tennis, etc...) who wouldn't put a kid on this need-based aid rather than use a scholarship...even if they were the very best player in the country.

Do your research school-by-school and try and figure out why a school is offering the type of aid that they are. Rules of thumb just don't work in this circumstance...I think because of your son's high academic standing he will be a coveted player if he's good enough.

Good luck!

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Ivy League students do not get academic or athletic money. All of the financial aid awarded to Ivy League students is based on financial need.

And from what I have seen, it is very generous

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In the end, I sounds as though you have to be able to trust the coach.

It's a two-way street. The coach is trusting the player will come into his program and be a good student, get good grades, exhibit maturity sometimes beyond their years, be a good citizen and work hard. Good luck.

Hello estateadv, welcome to the best site on the web for baseball info!

My experience was that the school sorted out how best to fund finanical aid for a prospect. If they are interested in you (as others have mentioned) they will offer you a spot on the team. The coaches and the appropriate administrative office then figure out how to make the most of their limited "baseball $$" based upon the other finanical aid that you might quality for. They will know early on that he is a good student because of the information forms they have you fill out.

estateadv, what is your son's first priority - academics or baseball? That can greatly influence his search process. There are some outstanding D3 schools that still have solid baseball programs.

If he wants Division III schools he won't find them in Florida--he has to look elsewhere

According to my son, he only wants to apply to schools where he can play baseball. He's obsessed with baseball. He does something baseball every day.

Even so, one can still play baseball while maintaining academics as the first priority.

One can choose a school based on academics and still play ball at that school, or one can choose a school based on its baseball program and take whatever comes academically. Two different approaches.

quote:

Originally posted by hokieone:

I love college baseball and thoroughly enjoy watching my sons, but it can be an emotional roller coaster, and you just have to realize how things work and not get too whacked out one way or the other.

My son just had the pleasure of signing his LOI with a good NAIA program this week. While all this has been fun I can't help but think about hokie's quote above and how I hope and pray to remember it his freshman year and beyond. I've always told him that you play your way onto the field and you play your with way off the field. Either way..it's on him.

During this process of talking with coaches, recruiting visits, campus tours, etc. I have met some of the nicest coaches I would ever hope to meet. My son's soon-to-be college coach had integrity, great character, and high moral's. We feel he shot straight with us from the very beginning about every issue/concern/question we asked about. After all, the only thing most of us really gave to base our decision on besides prayer is that thing called a gut feeling. It's either there, or not.

I like every other parent on here hope our son's get the opportunity to get plenty of playing time and enjoy the ride while there. If not, it's my belief and hope that through challenges and adversity he will learn how to flourish and rise above. Ingredients that will carry him through his adult life on the way to becoming a man, husband, and father.

Hokie, thank you for the fresh insight. It really opened my eyes!

Congratulations what school did your son sign with and what position does he play?

He signed with Shorter College in Rome, Ga.

He will be a RHP and 3B, according to the coach.

Congrats to the younger gun.

Awesome news! Congratulations to your son and your family!

That's great news.

And about now you'll start to feel a tad weird because the chase is over...soon to replaced by the college PT chase. Enjoy and congratulations! It is kind of neat when you look back at all the kids your son played ball with along the way, and knowing he has worked hard enough and long enough to keep going a while longer. Good luck!

adding a congrats to player & family



the P/3B caught me off guard a bit .. regarding rest

Thank you very much my hsbbw friends and fellow posters! We are extremely happy and pleased to say the least.

Yes we are starting to feel a little weird even this soon afterwards. How funny is that!

Bee..the rest is also a concern of mine as it has been all through high school. I can only hope and pray that the coaches will have my son's best interest at heart. I believe eventually that it will come down to either my son or a coach wanting to focus more on one position or the other. It's just a bridge he will have to cross...maybe.

justbaseball,
Hmmm...free for incomes less than $45K? Time for us to quit our jobs and sign on with Burger King. Probably a good trade if the kids were to get into Stanford.

CAdad-
You will still have to qualify academically right?