Cant find a website . Looks like PG is using this app instead of game changer. Any info or advantages? Just got used to GC and renewed subscription and they change. Ugh
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Your research and mine are about the same. I'm not exactly sure what the difference is between the two. However, The DiamondKast mentioned watching in 3D. So, my guess is that they've taken the 3D visualization components swing tracker and layered a scoring application on top of it.
If they incorporate all the metrics they are capturing plus the game scoring into a single app, I think that would be pretty cool.
Maybe PGStaff will weigh in and provide some insight.
It's listed on a games that aren't even being played at lakepoint. I thought it was a video feed and not a game changer feed with all the talk of being in the front row, but how can they control that outside of LP?
wareagle posted:Cant find a website . Looks like PG is using this app instead of game changer. Any info or advantages? Just got used to GC and renewed subscription and they change. Ugh
Are you confusing this with "Diamond Kinetics" partnership which was recently announced, which is geared toward providing a "Zepp" like metrics tool to provide data at the events versus actually providing a scoring platform. Either way, I'm good with it as long as it's not another subscription service I have to pay for to see my son's data...which it probably will be. Nothing is free in the upper levels of baseball. It looks to me that this is basically replacing their partnership with Zepp, not Gamechanger. With Gamechanger being owned by Dick's Sporting Goods now, I imagine a partnership there would be mutually beneficial to PG as well.
SanDiegoRealist posted:wareagle posted:Cant find a website . Looks like PG is using this app instead of game changer. Any info or advantages? Just got used to GC and renewed subscription and they change. Ugh
Are you confusing this with "Diamond Kinetics" partnership which was recently announced, which is geared toward providing a "Zepp" like metrics tool to provide data at the events versus actually providing a scoring platform. Either way, I'm good with it as long as it's not another subscription service I have to pay for to see my son's data...which it probably will be. Nothing is free in the upper levels of baseball. It looks to me that this is basically replacing their partnership with Zepp, not Gamechanger. With Gamechanger being owned by Dick's Sporting Goods now, I imagine a partnership there would be mutually beneficial to PG as well.
It's definitely associated with Diamond Kinetics. If you go to the PG site where the scheduled games are posted, there would be a link for "play by play" that would take you to the GC scoring app to watch the game online. That has been replaced with a DiamondKast logo that takes you to a login page to view the game.
PlayWithEffort posted:SanDiegoRealist posted:wareagle posted:Cant find a website . Looks like PG is using this app instead of game changer. Any info or advantages? Just got used to GC and renewed subscription and they change. Ugh
Are you confusing this with "Diamond Kinetics" partnership which was recently announced, which is geared toward providing a "Zepp" like metrics tool to provide data at the events versus actually providing a scoring platform. Either way, I'm good with it as long as it's not another subscription service I have to pay for to see my son's data...which it probably will be. Nothing is free in the upper levels of baseball. It looks to me that this is basically replacing their partnership with Zepp, not Gamechanger. With Gamechanger being owned by Dick's Sporting Goods now, I imagine a partnership there would be mutually beneficial to PG as well.
It's definitely associated with Diamond Kinetics. If you go to the PG site where the scheduled games are posted, there would be a link for "play by play" that would take you to the GC scoring app to watch the game online. That has been replaced with a DiamondKast logo that takes you to a login page to view the game.
hadn't dug that deep, you are right...and of course there is a subscription fee. Nothing on Diamond Kinetics' website even alludes to a scoring application. The link takes you to Perfect Game's website to subscribe. Guess we will see what people come back with from this weekend's games as far as what the experience is about. Personally, we don't play that many PG events, so I would bet some parents are going to score games via gamechanger at these events anyway for their respective teams and you may be able to follow that way.
PGSTAFF, maybe you could actually answer some of these questions about this product for us?
It may be similar to trackman, which you can watch pitch by pitch cast of a game. Was really cool at Jupiter last year. You could watch each pitch type, spin rate, velo, etc., etc., then if the ball was hit, exit velo, distance traveled, etc., etc.
SanDiegoRealist posted:PlayWithEffort posted:SanDiegoRealist posted:wareagle posted:Cant find a website . Looks like PG is using this app instead of game changer. Any info or advantages? Just got used to GC and renewed subscription and they change. Ugh
Are you confusing this with "Diamond Kinetics" partnership which was recently announced, which is geared toward providing a "Zepp" like metrics tool to provide data at the events versus actually providing a scoring platform. Either way, I'm good with it as long as it's not another subscription service I have to pay for to see my son's data...which it probably will be. Nothing is free in the upper levels of baseball. It looks to me that this is basically replacing their partnership with Zepp, not Gamechanger. With Gamechanger being owned by Dick's Sporting Goods now, I imagine a partnership there would be mutually beneficial to PG as well.
It's definitely associated with Diamond Kinetics. If you go to the PG site where the scheduled games are posted, there would be a link for "play by play" that would take you to the GC scoring app to watch the game online. That has been replaced with a DiamondKast logo that takes you to a login page to view the game.
hadn't dug that deep, you are right...and of course there is a subscription fee. Nothing on Diamond Kinetics' website even alludes to a scoring application. The link takes you to Perfect Game's website to subscribe. Guess we will see what people come back with from this weekend's games as far as what the experience is about. Personally, we don't play that many PG events, so I would bet some parents are going to score games via gamechanger at these events anyway for their respective teams and you may be able to follow that way.
PGSTAFF, maybe you could actually answer some of these questions about this product for us?
I watched a few games on it this past weekend. Just had to use the PG login info for access.
slider8 posted:SanDiegoRealist posted:PlayWithEffort posted:SanDiegoRealist posted:wareagle posted:Cant find a website . Looks like PG is using this app instead of game changer. Any info or advantages? Just got used to GC and renewed subscription and they change. Ugh
Are you confusing this with "Diamond Kinetics" partnership which was recently announced, which is geared toward providing a "Zepp" like metrics tool to provide data at the events versus actually providing a scoring platform. Either way, I'm good with it as long as it's not another subscription service I have to pay for to see my son's data...which it probably will be. Nothing is free in the upper levels of baseball. It looks to me that this is basically replacing their partnership with Zepp, not Gamechanger. With Gamechanger being owned by Dick's Sporting Goods now, I imagine a partnership there would be mutually beneficial to PG as well.
It's definitely associated with Diamond Kinetics. If you go to the PG site where the scheduled games are posted, there would be a link for "play by play" that would take you to the GC scoring app to watch the game online. That has been replaced with a DiamondKast logo that takes you to a login page to view the game.
hadn't dug that deep, you are right...and of course there is a subscription fee. Nothing on Diamond Kinetics' website even alludes to a scoring application. The link takes you to Perfect Game's website to subscribe. Guess we will see what people come back with from this weekend's games as far as what the experience is about. Personally, we don't play that many PG events, so I would bet some parents are going to score games via gamechanger at these events anyway for their respective teams and you may be able to follow that way.
PGSTAFF, maybe you could actually answer some of these questions about this product for us?
I watched a few games on it this past weekend. Just had to use the PG login info for access.
slider8,
Maybe you can clue us in, since this service appears to be a batting analysis device, are you just getting swing data during the game, plus box scores? A little detail would be helpful. But it definitely looks like they have replaced their use of Game Changer. Too bad they are monetizing this, really not a service I will pay for because my son will not use a bat he isn't familiar with or add anything to his bat to gather metrics during game play. Wants nothing to do with it.
Thanks
SanDiegoRealist posted:slider8 posted:SanDiegoRealist posted:PlayWithEffort posted:SanDiegoRealist posted:wareagle posted:Cant find a website . Looks like PG is using this app instead of game changer. Any info or advantages? Just got used to GC and renewed subscription and they change. Ugh
Are you confusing this with "Diamond Kinetics" partnership which was recently announced, which is geared toward providing a "Zepp" like metrics tool to provide data at the events versus actually providing a scoring platform. Either way, I'm good with it as long as it's not another subscription service I have to pay for to see my son's data...which it probably will be. Nothing is free in the upper levels of baseball. It looks to me that this is basically replacing their partnership with Zepp, not Gamechanger. With Gamechanger being owned by Dick's Sporting Goods now, I imagine a partnership there would be mutually beneficial to PG as well.
It's definitely associated with Diamond Kinetics. If you go to the PG site where the scheduled games are posted, there would be a link for "play by play" that would take you to the GC scoring app to watch the game online. That has been replaced with a DiamondKast logo that takes you to a login page to view the game.
hadn't dug that deep, you are right...and of course there is a subscription fee. Nothing on Diamond Kinetics' website even alludes to a scoring application. The link takes you to Perfect Game's website to subscribe. Guess we will see what people come back with from this weekend's games as far as what the experience is about. Personally, we don't play that many PG events, so I would bet some parents are going to score games via gamechanger at these events anyway for their respective teams and you may be able to follow that way.
PGSTAFF, maybe you could actually answer some of these questions about this product for us?
I watched a few games on it this past weekend. Just had to use the PG login info for access.
slider8,
Maybe you can clue us in, since this service appears to be a batting analysis device, are you just getting swing data during the game, plus box scores? A little detail would be helpful.
Thanks
very similar to GC but a little better graphics. The screen is very busy. Shows the field and players like GC but also has the roster list of both teams and the lineup for both. All on the same screen. On the left of the screen it just shows the play,. ie ground out, single etc and will give the code. ie F4. One thing I didn't like is that the Box Score only shows up when the game is complete. Unlike GC the field view doesn't show the ball
slider8 posted:SanDiegoRealist posted:slider8 posted:SanDiegoRealist posted:PlayWithEffort posted:SanDiegoRealist posted:wareagle posted:Cant find a website . Looks like PG is using this app instead of game changer. Any info or advantages? Just got used to GC and renewed subscription and they change. Ugh
Are you confusing this with "Diamond Kinetics" partnership which was recently announced, which is geared toward providing a "Zepp" like metrics tool to provide data at the events versus actually providing a scoring platform. Either way, I'm good with it as long as it's not another subscription service I have to pay for to see my son's data...which it probably will be. Nothing is free in the upper levels of baseball. It looks to me that this is basically replacing their partnership with Zepp, not Gamechanger. With Gamechanger being owned by Dick's Sporting Goods now, I imagine a partnership there would be mutually beneficial to PG as well.
It's definitely associated with Diamond Kinetics. If you go to the PG site where the scheduled games are posted, there would be a link for "play by play" that would take you to the GC scoring app to watch the game online. That has been replaced with a DiamondKast logo that takes you to a login page to view the game.
hadn't dug that deep, you are right...and of course there is a subscription fee. Nothing on Diamond Kinetics' website even alludes to a scoring application. The link takes you to Perfect Game's website to subscribe. Guess we will see what people come back with from this weekend's games as far as what the experience is about. Personally, we don't play that many PG events, so I would bet some parents are going to score games via gamechanger at these events anyway for their respective teams and you may be able to follow that way.
PGSTAFF, maybe you could actually answer some of these questions about this product for us?
I watched a few games on it this past weekend. Just had to use the PG login info for access.
slider8,
Maybe you can clue us in, since this service appears to be a batting analysis device, are you just getting swing data during the game, plus box scores? A little detail would be helpful.
Thanks
very similar to GC but a little better graphics. The screen is very busy. Shows the field and players like GC but also has the roster list of both teams and the lineup for both. All on the same screen. On the left of the screen it just shows the play,. ie ground out, single etc and will give the code. ie F4. One thing I didn't like is that the Box Score only shows up when the game is complete. Unlike GC the field view doesn't show the ball
Is there an app? Or just via PG website?
no app that I could find. When you click on the DiamondKast link next to a game in the schedule it will take you to a login screen. Under already a member click Login. This will take you to a PG site to enter your PG login info.
We are extremely happy with our new partnership with Diamond Kinetics. We wanted the most accuracy and consistency possible for scouting purposes. Diamond Kinetics will not only provide accurate measurements consistently, but it will allow players to improve the measurements listed on their profile without attending additional events.
DiamondKast is the PG scoring app that we have been working on for over two years. It is a very large investment, but we think it will be extra special. It will allow us to do things that were never possible before. It is in the final stages of testing now and will be used at all the Memorial weekend tournaments.
3D animation of every play is the goal, that will be cool, but it isn't the most important thing to us or the players and teams. Every time the scoring app is used, the complete statistics and scouting data from every game are automatically loaded to team pages and individual player profiles on the PG site. Of course this will happen at all PG events, but what is new and exciting is anytime the app is used to score a game at any tournament, HS game, etc., those stats load directly on the players profile. Players could have a game by game history covering several years all included on their profile page. We will have even more data for scouts and college coaches to look at. It will help us keep track of players even when they are not at a PG event. We already know that the PG site is followed by nearly all decision makers. It's not a recruiting service, yet it is by far the number one recruiting service in baseball. And now it will be providing information never before possible.
Diamond Kinetics sensors and DiamondKast scoring are two things that help us improve the system. Provide the most benefit to those that attend PG events. With anything new we do expect some snags as we continue to make improvements. But when you combine all this technology like Trackman, Diamond Kinetics, DiamondKast, and others, it will provide so much more information about teams and individual players than ever possible before. It will allow teams and players an opportunity to have information gathered even when they aren't at a PG event.
There is yet another big advantage we will be introducing this year. It will provide each player of any age with a way to improve their skills and athleticism in ways never before possible. We are very excited about that project that will help players from Little League to MLB secure the information they need. We have partnered with many of the world's foremost experts in just about every area of baseball and softball.
For over twenty years we have concentrated on finding and recognizing the best players for colleges and MLB scouting departments. We plan to continue doing that, but also providing much more information. We have done a good job in that area, but there are players we weren't helping. They lacked the skills, athleticism, or physicality, necessary to garner interest from the next level. Some might have had a poor performance at a specific event and we don't see them again. How would we know that we saw them on a bad day? Now we will be able to provide advice and information specifically geared towards their individual skill level. We can show them what they need to do to get better and they can show us they are better. This is very exciting for someone like me because over many years I have seen so many young players take their ability to another level. There can never be too much information IMO.
Remember Diamond Kinetics sensors have nothing to do with the scoring app. The two do completely different things other than gather information. The sensors are for testing and training. The scorekeeping app is for actual games.
The scoring app is just like other scoring apps in many ways. It just gives us more data and we actually will own that data. So it functions similar to other scoring apps, but it is built to do other things pertaining to scouting. It has been built to do pitch count warnings using PitchSmart guidelines. It can add in velocity readings whenever there is a radar gun or trackman. But the best thing it does is automatically load all individual stats directly to each players profile, every time it is used at any game played, and not just PG events. No one else can do that!
We expect some glitches early on, but we have had those in the past. I hope people understand that using the app is free, but to see and follow games you need to subscribe. Please understand this is a very large investment on our part, so it does have to produce some revenue.
We haven't released all this info yet, but as usual the people here are way ahead of things.
PG Staff, if you are excited I'm sure it will be a cool thing BUT can you dumb all that down for us dumbos of the world?
Better question, my kid is playing in one of your events this weekend. The logo is near all of his games. What can he expect? Is anything different from the players perspective?
Thanks for the reply, PGSTAFF, since there was no press release that I could find on either Diamond Kinetics or PG website, your reply is very welcomed.
The big question for me is: Will organizations outside of PG adopt the scoring system? If it is available to coaches and scorekeepers on a zero-cost basis like Game Changer, I see the value in using it if the statistics are incorporated into player profiles on PG, however the value of PG really lies in the "eyes on" by your staff and evaluators at the events (aka scouting reports). As many of us have discussed on this website, stats are subjective to who is keeping them, if they have an agenda, the level of competition being played against (going 0-fer against a weak pitcher looks the same as going 0-fer against a D1 prospect in a scorebook...and 4-4 is scored the same way) and of marginal importance to coaches recruiting based on such. So essentially having statistics as part of a PG profile for review by college coaches and pro scouts sounds interesting, but I am not sure of the value to the players or coaches.
If there is a capacity to incorporate the metrics from a Diamond Kinetics device into the scoring of a game using Diamondkast, cool. But will everyone want every facet of their performances broadcast to the world on a daily basis? Have you conducted any kind of focus groups or surveys to show that this is something your customers want? Just curious. I'm a geek and like that we are incorporating technology into these profiles, but I guess I may have more questions about the implementation than most.
Also, with regards to ownership of the data, is it reasonable to expect that all data for all players is available to all subscribers for the same subscription fee, or is there a plan to tier this?
First of all, don't expect anything more than a scoring app. Players just go play the game.
Anything that goes up on a players profile can be deleted. Stats are not as important as some other things, but good stats can help assure the player is doing well.
The individual data is available to players at no cost.
I agree that the eyes on is by far most important. So are the measurables. Then combining those things with statistics tells the whole story. More importantly it allows those interested in a player to see more information. Maybe the kid with great stats, scored poorly at a showcase. However the great stats might create some follow up. Maybe some kids look like first rounders at a showcase, but stats show they hit .100 with no extra base hits in HS and strikes out half the time. Guess that wouldn't help that kid, but the truth is the truth. And iff he were a potential first round pick, he will have many scouts watching him hit .100 and strikeout a lot, anyway. All of these non PG stats will have a disclaimer that we can not guarantee accuracy at those games.
Recruiting and scouting shouldn't be about fooling people. That usually has bad results for everyone. I'm more interested in the many kids that are doing well and going unnoticed, than those that are failing to play well.
Still anything on a profile can be deleted. We even delete grades and measurables when requested.
Of course the scorekeeper can be inaccurate, but that is the case with any type of scorekeeping. Is what is reported to Maxprep 100% accurate info? I think more people will be paying closer attention to what the official scorekeeper is doing. With the new app, any scorekeeper can add velocity readings and other interesting things.
Most importantly, Parents have to sign a release to allow us to post non PG info. Just like they have to sign a release for PG events. No one is forced into anything. And like I mentioned if someone is having a terrible year and the stats stink, we don't have to post them. We certainly don't want to harm any player. But a bad year followed by a couple good years can be a helpful indicator in projecting a players future. I really don't see any advantage in hiding things.
Anyway, this is all new stuff, so time will tell how it all works out. I'm sure some adjustments will be needed along the way. I have a hunch that this will become a hot topic here this summer.
Sounds like it has some potential, but like you said context is everything in the recruiting game. As time goes on it will be interesting to gauge whether the inclusion of stats in the PG player profile moves a needle for a coach to look at a kid.
PGStaff posted:We are extremely happy with our new partnership with Diamond Kinetics. We wanted the most accuracy and consistency possible for scouting purposes. Diamond Kinetics will not only provide accurate measurements consistently, but it will allow players to improve the measurements listed on their profile without attending additional events.
DiamondKast is the PG scoring app that we have been working on for over two years. It is a very large investment, but we think it will be extra special. It will allow us to do things that were never possible before. It is in the final stages of testing now and will be used at all the Memorial weekend tournaments.
3D animation of every play is the goal, that will be cool, but it isn't the most important thing to us or the players and teams. Every time the scoring app is used, the complete statistics and scouting data from every game are automatically loaded to team pages and individual player profiles on the PG site. Of course this will happen at all PG events, but what is new and exciting is anytime the app is used to score a game at any tournament, HS game, etc., those stats load directly on the players profile. Players could have a game by game history covering several years all included on their profile page. We will have even more data for scouts and college coaches to look at. It will help us keep track of players even when they are not at a PG event. We already know that the PG site is followed by nearly all decision makers. It's not a recruiting service, yet it is by far the number one recruiting service in baseball. And now it will be providing information never before possible.
Diamond Kinetics sensors and DiamondKast scoring are two things that help us improve the system. Provide the most benefit to those that attend PG events. With anything new we do expect some snags as we continue to make improvements. But when you combine all this technology like Trackman, Diamond Kinetics, DiamondKast, and others, it will provide so much more information about teams and individual players than ever possible before. It will allow teams and players an opportunity to have information gathered even when they aren't at a PG event.
There is yet another big advantage we will be introducing this year. It will provide each player of any age with a way to improve their skills and athleticism in ways never before possible. We are very excited about that project that will help players from Little League to MLB secure the information they need. We have partnered with many of the world's foremost experts in just about every area of baseball and softball.
For over twenty years we have concentrated on finding and recognizing the best players for colleges and MLB scouting departments. We plan to continue doing that, but also providing much more information. We have done a good job in that area, but there are players we weren't helping. They lacked the skills, athleticism, or physicality, necessary to garner interest from the next level. Some might have had a poor performance at a specific event and we don't see them again. How would we know that we saw them on a bad day? Now we will be able to provide advice and information specifically geared towards their individual skill level. We can show them what they need to do to get better and they can show us they are better. This is very exciting for someone like me because over many years I have seen so many young players take their ability to another level. There can never be too much information IMO.
Trackman is a good tool but certainly not an accurate tool, especially when deployed at small parks like Lakepoint even in a fixed state. Throw in the roster issues during games, Stalker guns that haven't been calibrated (one event the gun was off 6 mph), field operators that aren't trained well, etc, etc, etc, then toss all that garbage on to players cards game-after-game-after-game and all you end up with is one big mess to clean up instead of anything useful...
... except as a marketing tool to naive parents who trust the brand, want their child 'scouted', and then end up dissatisfied.
Careful -- BA's credibility is getting dragged down by Top96. Hopefully PG makes better decisions.
My two cents.
Earlier this season, I was able to follow Diamondkast with my premium PG subscription. Now it is asking for an additional $40. When did that happen?
Dadofa17 posted:Earlier this season, I was able to follow Diamondkast with my premium PG subscription. Now it is asking for an additional $40. When did that happen?
It only gives you free access for one tournament.
hshuler posted:Dadofa17 posted:Earlier this season, I was able to follow Diamondkast with my premium PG subscription. Now it is asking for an additional $40. When did that happen?
It only gives you free access for one tournament.
Thanks.
I guess I won't be following any more games.
I will add another pause of concern over these things.
I get all the data and sales pitch to coaches and scouts; it all sounds wonderful in theory. But bad data is potentially harmful to the player and it is not uncommon, unless my son is just the unlucky one.
Seems like most of his tournaments at Lakepoint there have been scoring and technology errors (btw, love PG and Lakepointe, just focused on this "collection of data" for coaches). Again this summer, both Trackman and DK assigned some things to him that were flat wrong. I think this mostly is because "young men" are sitting there all day and night, and frankly I couldn't pay attention all day either if I were them.
If your team makes lots of substitutions, good luck having these young men keep track of it all. And unfortunately, it's a pretty small sample size of "data" if you only play a handful of games at Lakepoint, so a few mistakes in the wrong direction can affect the overall impression from this data.
My son actually asked me if college coaches follow this "data" closely or not. I assumed not, but don't really know. As I read PGStaff's comments above, it looks like they actually might. Ugh.
Let's not forget that the number of players needed for the draft and college has not changed.
PG has found yet another way to make money as if the thousands of dollars parents pay to send their kids to the "Showcases" and tournaments already weren't enough . Gamechanger worked fine and most importantly was free. Don't get me started on what a money scam the PG Junior National was( Unless your a pitcher and FYI my kid had a great time). def not worth the money for a position player. 3 AB in 3 games. Maybe next year they can put 50 kids on each roster to maximize profits.
Baseball2019 posted:PG has found yet another way to make money as if the thousands of dollars parents pay to send their kids to the "Showcases" and tournaments already weren't enough . Gamechanger worked fine and most importantly was free. Don't get me started on what a money scam the PG Junior National was( Unless your a pitcher and FYI my kid had a great time). def not worth the money for a position player. 3 AB in 3 games. Maybe next year they can put 50 kids on each roster to maximize profits.
Careful, you'll be dubbed a troll or demonized for being critical of PG. I agree, they are trying to get too deep into people's pockets. Gate fees at the PG events to watch our own kids play, now having to pay to follow games on DiamondKast (refuse to do that). Is it really necessary to charge me $55 to watch my kid play in an event that his team just paid you $2,500 to enter? Seriously?
It's just getting kind of greedy. I understand that PG will come on here and say there was serious expense developing the DiamondKast software and that it is only fair to be able to recoup that expense. My response to that is where was the need for the development of that software in the first place? If they had a product they could use FOR FREE in GameChanger (no cost to PG), the answer is because PG was watching thousands of baseball families pony up $40 a year to follow teams on GameChanger and wanted to control their slice of that action. But their product is inferior to GameChanger, sorry, but I said it...far inferior. Just score the games yourself on Gamechanger for your teams, you'll need to do that anyway when the person scoring the game and running the radar gun misses pitches. They didn't even get our game's score right today, something that could affect a team making a championship bracket cut. Trying to do too much PG Staff.
We expect DiamondKast to be the most valuable scoring app in all of baseball. Most valuable to individual players and teams. It already does many things that no other scoring app can do. We had several glitches when it was first introduced. So we decided to refund every person that subscribed. Then we offered it for free to everyone until we got it working correctly. It is absolutely free to use and just like all other apps it charges the viewers that want to use it. If you don't like it don't use it. In the meantime we plan to continue improving it. It amazes me that someone here can tell people "why" we do anything.
If someone feels anything we do is too expensive and wants to complain, please don't take this the wrong way, but you don't know what is involved. We don't force anyone to do anything.,
I understand that people get upset about things when things don't go right. It's like the rain in Atlanta or Ft Myers, there is no one enjoying that. Least of all us.
PGStaff posted:We expect DiamondKast to be the most valuable scoring app in all of baseball. Most valuable to individual players and teams. It already does many things that no other scoring app can do. We had several glitches when it was first introduced. So we decided to refund every person that subscribed. Then we offered it for free to everyone until we got it working correctly. It is absolutely free to use and just like all other apps it charges the viewers that want to use it. If you don't like it don't use it. In the meantime we plan to continue improving it. It amazes me that someone here can tell people "why" we do anything.
If someone feels anything we do is too expensive and wants to complain, please don't take this the wrong way, but you don't know what is involved. We don't force anyone to do anything.,
I understand that people get upset about things when things don't go right. It's like the rain in Atlanta or Ft Myers, there is no one enjoying that. Least of all us.
Why do you charge gate entry fees to your events for families? Is it because the tournament fees aren't enough? Seriously, you really need to see it from the perspective of families who are "going through the process" now. If it looks like a money grab, smells like a money grab...
SanDiegoRealist posted:Baseball2019 posted:PG has found yet another way to make money as if the thousands of dollars parents pay to send their kids to the "Showcases" and tournaments already weren't enough . Gamechanger worked fine and most importantly was free. Don't get me started on what a money scam the PG Junior National was( Unless your a pitcher and FYI my kid had a great time). def not worth the money for a position player. 3 AB in 3 games. Maybe next year they can put 50 kids on each roster to maximize profits.
Careful, you'll be dubbed a troll or demonized for being critical of PG. I agree, they are trying to get too deep into people's pockets. Gate fees at the PG events to watch our own kids play, now having to pay to follow games on DiamondKast (refuse to do that). Is it really necessary to charge me $55 to watch my kid play in an event that his team just paid you $2,500 to enter? Seriously?
It's just getting kind of greedy. I understand that PG will come on here and say there was serious expense developing the DiamondKast software and that it is only fair to be able to recoup that expense. My response to that is where was the need for the development of that software in the first place? If they had a product they could use FOR FREE in GameChanger (no cost to PG), the answer is because PG was watching thousands of baseball families pony up $40 a year to follow teams on GameChanger and wanted to control their slice of that action. But their product is inferior to GameChanger, sorry, but I said it...far inferior. Just score the games yourself on Gamechanger for your teams, you'll need to do that anyway when the person scoring the game and running the radar gun misses pitches. They didn't even get our game's score right today, something that could affect a team making a championship bracket cut. Trying to do too much PG Staff.
Yep, our game was scored incorrectly. Only by 1 run, but you never know!
In the end there are zero incorrect scores. no team has ever missed a play off because of an incorrect reported score. They always get corrected before the play offs are scheduled.
This wasn't difficult to predict. If I am PG, I would do the exact same thing. If you can control the stats on your platform, you do. If there is genuine revenue to be made and the product is of value, I don't see the problem. Feel for Gamechanger and Zepp. Someone said (somewhere), "Data is the new oil." PG knows this. I am not a fan of charging people to beta a product, though.
OK, just one very important reason to have our own scoring app. We now own our own data, which had never been possible before. that data can now be used to promote deserving players. And people will have the ability to delete any of that data from their profile.
We feel DiamondKast has already surpassed anything the other scoring apps can provide. In time everyone will realize that. We also feel that Diamond Kinetics is BY FAR the best in the business. People will soon feel the same way.
PGStaff posted:OK, just one very important reason to have our own scoring app. We now own our own data, which had never been possible before. that data can now be used to promote deserving players. And people will have the ability to delete any of that data from their profile.
We feel DiamondKast has already surpassed anything the other scoring apps can provide. In time everyone will realize that. We also feel that Diamond Kinetics is BY FAR the best in the business. People will soon feel the same way.
Diamond Kinetics looks interesting.
PGStaff posted:OK, just one very important reason to have our own scoring app. We now own our own data, which had never been possible before. that data can now be used to promote deserving players. And people will have the ability to delete any of that data from their profile.
We feel DiamondKast has already surpassed anything the other scoring apps can provide. In time everyone will realize that. We also feel that Diamond Kinetics is BY FAR the best in the business. People will soon feel the same way.
You didn't answer my question, PG Staff. If it is all about the players, why are you charging gate fees for the families who are already spending a huge amount of money to register for and travel to these events?
SanDiegoRealist posted:PGStaff posted:OK, just one very important reason to have our own scoring app. We now own our own data, which had never been possible before. that data can now be used to promote deserving players. And people will have the ability to delete any of that data from their profile.
We feel DiamondKast has already surpassed anything the other scoring apps can provide. In time everyone will realize that. We also feel that Diamond Kinetics is BY FAR the best in the business. People will soon feel the same way.
You didn't answer my question, PG Staff. If it is all about the players, why are you charging gate fees for the families who are already spending a huge amount of money to register for and travel to these events?
Parking is a LakePoint fee, not PG.
SanDiegoRealist posted:PGStaff posted:OK, just one very important reason to have our own scoring app. We now own our own data, which had never been possible before. that data can now be used to promote deserving players. And people will have the ability to delete any of that data from their profile.
We feel DiamondKast has already surpassed anything the other scoring apps can provide. In time everyone will realize that. We also feel that Diamond Kinetics is BY FAR the best in the business. People will soon feel the same way.
You didn't answer my question, PG Staff. If it is all about the players, why are you charging gate fees for the families who are already spending a huge amount of money to register for and travel to these events?
Because $1,078,000.00 in 'entry fee' revenue aint enough?
lol
SANDIEGOREALIST, and others...
I actually get very mad when I hear the money grab language. You have no idea how our business operates. You don't know how much we spend every year try to help young baseball players while we promote the game. You have no idea how many fulltime employees we have, let alone the hundreds of part-time people we use in the summer. You have no idea that we spend over a million a year just to hold one nationally televised game for the top HS players. You don't know how little we end up profiting from the work we do.
I am not a business man, money has never ruled or motivated me to do anything. Regarding the tournaments the teams pay an entry fee. Players pay the team. Some teams are very expensive some are free of charge. We have never forced anyone to pay for anything. Those that feel it is too expensive should not attend.
I have gone through this whole money grab thing too much. There are lots of money grabbers, but they don't last for 22 years.
It is very simple... no organization out side of MLB spends anywhere near as much as we do. What you and others are doing is the addition, we also have to do the subtraction. People would be amazed if they knew how much some of these events actually cost. We have held events that actually lose money. And we work for several children's charities where we have raised close to two million dollars. Pediatric cancer, childrens hospitals, Child autism, child club foot, etc. We also work closely with organizations that help underprivileged and minority children. We partner with MLB to give RBI, Urban Youth, and Breakthrough series an opportunity to show case there kids. We never talk much about those things, but your money grab comment brought it out of me.
Listen, you're pissed off about a lot of things right now. You are piling it on! There are people on this site that rarely post unless there is a post that gives them an opportunity to bash PG. Once it was found to be a competitor and that is usually the case. You can go back and check previous posts, you will see what I mean. You're not one of them, at least until now. But your comments have brought some of them back.
No one ever has to pay PG a dime. Why do you think they do? Is it because all the top colleges have rosters dominated by PG participants? Maybe it is because the MLB draft is dominated by PG participants. surely it cant be because over 1,000 and counting past PG participants have played in the Big Leagues. Maybe it is because the decision makers in baseball trust us. I hope your son gets the opportunity to go to Jupiter in October. If you are still complaining after that I give up. Warning... it can rain!
No one ever has to pay Microsoft a dime. Why do you think they do? Is it because all the top companies have IT departments dominated by MCSEs? Maybe it is because Fortune 500 companies IT staffs are dominated by MS trainees? Surely it cant be because over 1,000 and counting past MS advocates have become in the CIOs. Maybe it is because the decision makers in corporations trust MS.
To be honest, I question whether there's a ton of profit to be made, or I'd expect a much higher level of competition especially where I live in the Atlanta burbs, but maybe the first mover advantage is just that big (or ECB was that slow to adapt, just to give a for instance). Maybe baseball parents just have too much money to burn around here, and a big money operation like PG is inevitable in that environment.
I can't speak from experience with regards to the need for PG or something like it for Pro/DI prospects, but I do know that for a competent DIII prospect, what PG provides for HS age kids isn't really necessary, except insofar as it's the only outlet for them to get to play. I assume that wouldn't be the case, were PG to disappear overnight I'd expect HS age summer ball to continue around here in some fashion through other mechanisms. Maybe that wouldn't be true everywhere, can't really speak to anything outside of GA.
Of course, having been down this road with my own son, and watched the paths taken by any number of his teammates over the years and talked to plenty of their parents, I think it's likely the case that many of them really don't understand what's actually important/necessary in pursuing baseball beyond (or even in) HS. I was pretty clueless myself in the beginning, and I'm thankful to have found this site 5.5 years ago. What I got from here, and some lesser sources online, was easily the most valuable part of my son's journey outside of actually playing the game.
Perfect Game is the old 80/20 role in reverse.
for the top 20% it is worth every dime and really a bargain. if you aren't in the top 20 you are buying an experience. Be an educated consumer, know what you have and what you are purchasing. if D2 prospects stop showing up at PG events so will D2 coaches! It is a supply / demand issue folks nothing more or less.
PG don't act as if it isn't a money grab, it is...and that it is ok, you have invested, built a brand and have a product with massive demand...you are doing a great job...don't play the babe in the woods from Iowa role! if it isn't you running the company then whoever is running is a smart business person who is driving your profits higher or at least your sales higher every year. This is nothing to apologize for but please stop the I just do it for the kids act. Nobody is buying it anyway.
15 bucks is a lot for tournament subscription diamond cast...you think you can get it. Fair enough, I support you as a business person to get what you think is fair or what you are able to get but you have to be man enough to realize you are going to get heat for it and that you certainly could have charged less. Supply / Demand in action again. if you don't have people paying the fee you will drop prices...that we can be all be damn certain of.
Parents stop your bitching, you paid to come, it is the best service in on the planet...it may or may not be the right one for you...that needs to be discussed between you and the travel program you signed up with who brought you there.
My experience at National PG events has been they extremely well run, competition has been general speaking very good (if occasionally lopsided) and the recruiters have been there in great numbers...this appears to be the general consensus. If it wasn't they wouldn't have 392 teams in GA waiting for the rain to leave!!
OLD_SCHOOL,
I appreciate your thoughts and what you said for the most part makes a lot of sense. Let me explain why the words "money grab" bothers me so much. if I were a good businessman I probably wouldn't be bothered or respond to many of these negative type comments. Though I don't consider your comments negative.
With all due respect, you really don't know me. You don't know what motivates me. You must not know the history of Perfect Game. When we started the sole purpose was to help talented baseball players in Iowa. Our goal was to break even doing it. For the first 4 or 5 years we should have gone bankrupt every day. Bill collectors were hounding us, sponsorship avoided us like the plague. So was it all the money that kept us going??? No, the reason we stayed in business was because it was actually working very well for the kids that played. So in order to survive we had to expand into other areas of the country. we found out that what we did in Iowa worked in other areas.
I really don't care who believes it, but my background is in coaching and scouting. I have told everyone from the commissioners office to sponsors and partners, I hate business. Had we started any other business, you name the business, outside of baseball, we would have folded within the first year or two. With a lot of hard work and perseverance, we survived and became profitable. I personally have been awarded for business success. In fact, most surprising was when earlier this year USA Today named me one of the top 100 (57) most powerful people in Major League Baseball. here is the link https://www.usatoday.com/story...ul-people/100172102/ Not sure how deserving that was, and what it said wasn't all positive, but it was an honor because it involved baseball. You will never see me on a Forbes list.
So being involved in something labeled a money grab is very demeaning to me. I assure you, I very seldom think about money. I think about players and baseball nearly every waking hour. I think about growing the game. I think about how can we help those kids that cant afford this stuff.
That said, some of what you mentioned is true. We do have some good business people among our leadership. Our business is profitable. I have made more money than I ever expected, but I'm not wealthy. Our profits are below 10%, even in the best of years. It's just people don't understand the cost of trying to do things right. Well, most people don't understand and some do.
We have seen the money grabbers come and go. I can see why some might look at Perfect Game that way when they have to pay admission pay for a subscription. They have no way of knowing what is involved. We are not just a group running tournaments or showcases out of our house.
I'm not looking for sympathy. But when I tell people something they can believe it. I have lots of faults, but things like greed or taking advantage of people are not among those faults. I want to help and give, not take, when it comes to baseball.
Sorry, for all of this rant, but the very most important thing in the world to me when it comes to baseball is my reputation. That may sound selfish, but it is also true!