DiamondKast was a disaster yesterday. Their servers could not keep up with the demand. Some games displayed a pitch every 10 minutes and ended up hours behind and some games didn't show up at all. What is PG doing about refunding the fee to those that paid to watch those games? Maybe rethink Game Changer.
PGStaff posted:
OLD_SCHOOL,
I appreciate your thoughts and what you said for the most part makes a lot of sense. Let me explain why the words "money grab" bothers me so much. if I were a good businessman I probably wouldn't be bothered or respond to many of these negative type comments. Though I don't consider your comments negative.
With all due respect, you really don't know me. You don't know what motivates me. You must not know the history of Perfect Game. When we started the sole purpose was to help talented baseball players in Iowa. Our goal was to break even doing it. For the first 4 or 5 years we should have gone bankrupt every day. Bill collectors were hounding us, sponsorship avoided us like the plague. So was it all the money that kept us going??? No, the reason we stayed in business was because it was actually working very well for the kids that played. So in order to survive we had to expand into other areas of the country. we found out that what we did in Iowa worked in other areas.
I really don't care who believes it, but my background is in coaching and scouting. I have told everyone from the commissioners office to sponsors and partners, I hate business. Had we started any other business, you name the business, outside of baseball, we would have folded within the first year or two. With a lot of hard work and perseverance, we survived and became profitable. I personally have been awarded for business success. In fact, most surprising was when earlier this year USA Today named me one of the top 100 (57) most powerful people in Major League Baseball. here is the link https://www.usatoday.com/story...ul-people/100172102/ Not sure how deserving that was, and what it said wasn't all positive, but it was an honor because it involved baseball. You will never see me on a Forbes list.
So being involved in something labeled a money grab is very demeaning to me. I assure you, I very seldom think about money. I think about players and baseball nearly every waking hour. I think about growing the game. I think about how can we help those kids that cant afford this stuff.
That said, some of what you mentioned is true. We do have some good business people among our leadership. Our business is profitable. I have made more money than I ever expected, but I'm not wealthy. Our profits are below 10%, even in the best of years. It's just people don't understand the cost of trying to do things right. Well, most people don't understand and some do.
We have seen the money grabbers come and go. I can see why some might look at Perfect Game that way when they have to pay admission pay for a subscription. They have no way of knowing what is involved. We are not just a group running tournaments or showcases out of our house.
I'm not looking for sympathy. But when I tell people something they can believe it. I have lots of faults, but things like greed or taking advantage of people are not among those faults. I want to help and give, not take, when it comes to baseball.
Sorry, for all of this rant, but the very most important thing in the world to me when it comes to baseball is my reputation. That may sound selfish, but it is also true!
Money grab probably not the best choice of words, I should of phrased it better. But I would be hard pressed to come up with a term that creates anything other then a for profit model. You left a known platform (GC)that works well for a proprietary product (DC) that costs more, hasn't been perfected yet and is struggling to keep up with demand. Give me a way that benefits the consumers? That is exactly what Microsoft and Oracle and so many other Tech companies have done over the years that totally piss of the clients...
Jerry, I think I was pretty supportive of your organization, it needs to operate on a business level or it ceases to exist. It is absolutely the best service on the market place right now. I don't know whole history but I am pretty familiar with your organization over the last 10 years or so...you have grown greatly. From services provided, to size of events, to number of events, to amount of partners you work with, to regional partnerships...etc.
The company is now many people not just you, some of the things that are happening are probably out of your control because you can't be everywhere, your people need to be empowered to make decisions but that closes some of the doors as well.
I get the problem, my business has grown several hundred % of the last decade...and I hear all the time from people "it just isn't the same" - and my response is that it can't be or it would not be here at all....again those are just undeniable truths.
I, personally, was thrilled with DK. But, it's mainly because I enjoy having access to velocities at games away from LP. I am a little perplexed at anger over changing from GC. Using GC for games seemed to be more of a courtesy provided by PG than anything else.
PGStaff posted:You have no idea that we spend over a million a year just to hold one nationally televised game for the top HS players. You don't know how little we end up profiting from the work we do.
From what I understand that is a great event. Please explain how many players that event helps? Where did the million dollars come from?
I am not a business man, money has never ruled or motivated me to do anything. Regarding the tournaments the teams pay an entry fee. Players pay the team. Some teams are very expensive some are free of charge. We have never forced anyone to pay for anything. Those that feel it is too expensive should not attend.
I agree that PG events are voluntary. You do understanding you are selling a dream that was once free. In today's world that dream comes with a BIG expense.
I have gone through this whole money grab thing too much. There are lots of money grabbers, but they don't last for 22 years.
I don't think you are a money grabber and truly feel you are a good guy with great intents. Unfortunately, the recruiting industry as a whole, which PG is very much a part of, is a result of selling a dream. So for those of us with some discretionary income and a kid with some talent, it sure is hard to say no to the current expensive process.
It is very simple... no organization out side of MLB spends anywhere near as much as we do. What you and others are doing is the addition, we also have to do the subtraction.
No doubt, but please understand whose money you are spending. MLB revenue comes from fans and advertisers money. Fans that go for the entertainment and advertisers that seek the fans as customers. PG's revenue comes from the participants.
People would be amazed if they knew how much some of these events actually cost. We have held events that actually lose money. And we work for several children's charities where we have raised close to two million dollars. Pediatric cancer, childrens hospitals, Child autism, child club foot, etc. We also work closely with organizations that help underprivileged and minority children. We partner with MLB to give RBI, Urban Youth, and Breakthrough series an opportunity to show case there kids. We never talk much about those things, but your money grab comment brought it out of me.
Again, that is honorable. What percentage of PG revenue comes from outside of the participants seeking to fulfill their dream?
There are people on this site that rarely post unless there is a post that gives them an opportunity to bash PG. Once it was found to be a competitor and that is usually the case. You can go back and check previous posts, you will see what I mean. You're not one of them, at least until now. But your comments have brought some of them back.
Your willingness to participate in these discussions for the positive and negative is really extraordinary. I commend you for your efforts to defend your industry and PG. I also commend you for all your insight on the process and value you add to the conversations. Please understand your industry and even PG isn't all roses. The recruiting process has become a major industry which in the end has simply increased the cost of a prospect than it has helped.
No one ever has to pay PG a dime. Why do you think they do? Is it because all the top colleges have rosters dominated by PG participants? Maybe it is because the MLB draft is dominated by PG participants. surely it cant be because over 1,000 and counting past PG participants have played in the Big Leagues. Maybe it is because the decision makers in baseball trust us. I hope your son gets the opportunity to go to Jupiter in October. If you are still complaining after that I give up. Warning... it can rain!
AND there's the sales pitch for the dream!! I can say the same thing about a thousand different things. All the top college players played in HS. Shocking!
The real questions that should be answered include: What percentage of PG participates are on top college rosters? What percentage of PG participates are drafted? What percentage of PG participates have played in the Big Leagues?
Before the recruiting industry ever existed there were the same amount of college and professional players recruited and drafted.
2 cents, having attended 8 WWBA's 5 Jupiters, 3 Ft. Myers,, 1 PG National, and countless other PG tourneys at least another 20 ... At first I thought the pricing was a tad steep..... but over the years I realized that I was spending priceless time with my sons.
I do not care if I spend 5 to park and 10 to get in. If it wasn't baseball it would be another activity. PG is the best at what they do hands down. Are they perfect, nope.... but they try to be... last night at WWBA an 8 year old wanted 2018's autograph....he did not know at first what the boy wanted..... then it dawned on him...... that was worth the 5 dollar parking and 10 gate fee for me.
That was worth me leaving Nashville at 3:30 to go to LP for a 7:30 game... that was worth the lightening delays and sleeping 4 hours , before driving back to Nashville at 4:00 am to work this morning
You guys better start enjoying every minute of every day that you are with your son and stop bitching to the guy that helps make the memories for you and your sons...
Sometimes I think some people bitch because maybe their sons baseball road did not turn out to be what dad had envisioned ....so let's bitch.. to make us feel better....
JMHO
bacdorslider posted:You guys better start enjoying every minute of every day that you are with your son and stop bitching to the guy that helps make the memories for you and your sons...
Sometimes I think some people bitch because maybe their sons baseball road did not turn out to be what dad had envisioned ....so let's bitch.. to make us feel better....
JMHO
PG didn't help make my memories with my son any more than Lego did when that was his obsession.
It's also possible to be objective about what PG is without regard to the path our sons have taken, and assuming otherwise wouldn't be any different from someone assuming you're white-knighting PG for similar reasons.
white-knighting.... yes you caught me.... I suggest you do not attend any PG events as they are not worth your time and effort... I'm sure you and your money will not be missed. go play with your Lego's.
You an come on here and bash PG , and I cannot talk about the good PG has done for me and mine without saying I have some underlying motive? Go read my post form 2013 and 2014... I was very critical of PG then.
What exactly did you want for the exp. that you did not get?
bacdorslider posted:2 cents, having attended 8 WWBA's 5 Jupiters, 3 Ft. Myers,, 1 PG National, and countless other PG tourneys at least another 20 ... At first I thought the pricing was a tad steep..... but over the years I realized that I was spending priceless time with my sons.
I do not care if I spend 5 to park and 10 to get in. If it wasn't baseball it would be another activity. PG is the best at what they do hands down. Are they perfect, nope.... but they try to be... last night at WWBA an 8 year old wanted 2018's autograph....he did not know at first what the boy wanted..... then it dawned on him...... that was worth the 5 dollar parking and 10 gate fee for me.
That was worth me leaving Nashville at 3:30 to go to LP for a 7:30 game... that was worth the lightening delays and sleeping 4 hours , before driving back to Nashville at 4:00 am to work this morning
You guys better start enjoying every minute of every day that you are with your son and stop bitching to the guy that helps make the memories for you and your sons...
Sometimes I think some people bitch because maybe their sons baseball road did not turn out to be what dad had envisioned ....so let's bitch.. to make us feel better....
JMHO
That's very cool!!!
lastly, I did have some concerns about the PG events, but I emailed PG , I talked to a person at the event.
Who cares if they make money.... its a choice to attend. and everyone wants to.
bacdorslider posted:white-knighting.... yes you caught me.... I suggest you do not attend any PG events as they are not worth your time and effort... I'm sure you and your money will not be missed. go play with your Lego's.
You an come on here and bash PG , and I cannot talk about the good PG has done for me and mine without saying I have some underlying motive? Go read my post form 2013 and 2014... I was very critical of PG then.
What exactly did you want for the exp. that you did not get?
jacjacatk posted:bacdorslider posted:You guys better start enjoying every minute of every day that you are with your son and stop bitching to the guy that helps make the memories for you and your sons...
Sometimes I think some people bitch because maybe their sons baseball road did not turn out to be what dad had envisioned ....so let's bitch.. to make us feel better....
JMHO
PG didn't help make my memories with my son any more than Lego did when that was his obsession.
It's also possible to be objective about what PG is without regard to the path our sons have taken, and assuming otherwise wouldn't be any different from someone assuming you're white-knighting PG for similar reasons.
Bolded original for emphasis.
Your accusation that people who discuss the inherent shortcomings of PG's place in the recruiting world must have sour grapes is the same as someone assuming that your support of PG comes from your son's success or your perception of it.
PGs contributions, necessity, and the money involved in the recruiting business can be discussed objectively apart from the successes or failures of the recruits whose lives are affected (or not) by their existence. Given the people who frequent this site are often looking for information on the value of various methods of getting from HS baseball to the next level, discussion about the value provided by PG and other recruiting tools is important, and critiques of them are as well, and it isn't "bashing" PG to talk about them. Feel free to substitute any other recruiting outfit for PG throughout this paragraph, PG's not the only one I've ever talked about here, it's just the one that's central to this particular thread.
It's not a perfect analogy (nothing is) but at one point, Lego was a central part of my son's childhood. They're also expensive, and there's a fairly large secondary market in them, and their scarcity (and hence cost) are somewhat controlled by artificial means. I made value judgments on purchasing them (or allowing my son to) based on all that information, that were no doubt different for us than they would have been for others. Had their been a forum for sharing my knowledge of the Lego financial system (hell, there probably is, and we're just not as deep into Lego as we are baseball) I would have been objective about my decision making there in the same way that I try to be about the process my son and I use(d) for baseball on this site.
Friend of mine just signed up for DiamondKast($15) for the WWBA 16U. So his wife could follow the team their son is playing in (like did with GameChanger). But the only thing she is able to see is the same line score as she could for free? What is he missing?
bacdorslider posted:lastly, I did have some concerns about the PG events, but I emailed PG , I talked to a person at the event.
Who cares if they make money.... its a choice to attend. and everyone wants to.
Anecdotally, my son's college teammates seemed more interested in ECB than PG insofar as swag goes when he first met them, which I thought was kind of amusing given their relative trajectories now, but I guess maybe it hasn't been that long since PG was the less well known brand here (or maybe it's just my only having been really connected to this stuff for the last 5-6 years).
jacjacatk posted:bacdorslider posted:You guys better start enjoying every minute of every day that you are with your son and stop bitching to the guy that helps make the memories for you and your sons...
Sometimes I think some people bitch because maybe their sons baseball road did not turn out to be what dad had envisioned ....so let's bitch.. to make us feel better....
JMHO
PG didn't help make my memories with my son any more than Lego did when that was his obsession.
It's also possible to be objective about what PG is without regard to the path our sons have taken, and assuming otherwise wouldn't be any different from someone assuming you're white-knighting PG for similar reasons.
My own kids are grown and done with their playing days. I can't imagine my efforts with any of my HS players ever getting to the point where I felt I should/could "call in a favor" with PG. I don't run travel organizations that participate with PG. So, what I'm saying is... no reason at all to "white-knight" PG or PGstaff.
I do, however, try to keep an eye on the ball and ear to the ground so I can advise a HS'er whenever the recruiting path becomes difficult for them to navigate. The landscape today is far different than 10, 20, 40 years ago. More players are better, stronger, more polished. There are more resources. There were 180 D1 baseball programs in 1970 and there are about 300 now. I believe the other levels have grown as well. The recruiting process has changed drastically. Instead of college coaches trying to roam vast swaths of land, things have become far more efficient. Now, all the best recruits are congregated at key events. The RC's are able to see WAY more players in a more efficient manner. There are pros and cons but for the most part, this is better all the way around. Colleges have a much better idea of the talent and character of the players they are getting. Players have a much better idea of where they fit, who they are up against, what schools may have interest in them and where to go for those schools to see them. This all comes with a cost that is typically passed on to the players and their parents. This is the unfortunate part and sometimes reduces the chances for those without the funds. However, there are solutions for those players as well. But what price is worth while to make sure your player has the opportunity to make the best decision for his baseball aspirations? Would you rather go back to the old days when, unless you were a complete stud, you were almost assuredly taking a wild stab in the dark with efforts (or hopes, really) of getting recruited to a compatible school.
Through all of this, an industry has emerged. Within that industry, clearly PG is the biggest and the best. There is no entity that comes remotely close in reach, following of key decision makers, brand awareness, integrity, ability to coordinate high profile events, etc., etc. When you have a PG rating, every RC in the country knows what that means. Can that be said for any other recruiting organization? Baseball is extremely fortunate, in my mind, that the biggest and the best is driven by people like PGstaff who are motivated by all the right intentions. I have been involved in many other industries where that is not the case - in fact, i would venture to guess that it is not the case in most every other industry. PGstaff has come on here on countless occasions and offered to help those who cannot otherwise afford his events. I don't think many realize that we have a high level executive of the biggest and the best taking time almost daily to address individual concerns and do so with such a high level of integrity, honesty and caring.
With any large undertaking, there will be pitfalls. PG does as well as any in properly addressing those issues. It takes money to maintain the necessary infrastructure. Yes, it is a business and must be in order to provide the services it does. I don't think it is necessarily wrong to point out issues here and ask for PGstaff's insight. I just don't get where anyone would post in an accusatory tone toward such a positive person and valuable resource within this community.
Jack, I'm not speaking to you specifically but to the overall tone this thread has taken. This, IMO, is not the average run-of-the-mill blog community. There are real people who get to know each other and support each other and there is a much higher standard. In turn, we have benefited from the contributions of folks like PGstaff and countless other invaluable contributors.
CABBAGEDAD..."I don't think it is necessarily wrong to point out issues here and ask for PGstaff's insight. I just don't get where anyone would post in an accusatory tone toward such a positive person and valuable resource within this community."
Yep.
Getting back to the original post regarding DiamondKast. I signed up to view for the year ($40) as my son just played in the WWBA in Atlanta and will be playing in the BCS in Ft. Myers and I couldn't/can't attend in person. While I understand PGStaff's argument of owning the data and the cost associated with developing the software, MY experience has been that this program is awful. I've read that PGStaff says it already does more than most every other scoring app, but unless they're listed, I don't see it. DK gives velocities of pitches, which is nice, but other than that it's just simple scoring. And the problem is what has already been said. Who is doing the scoring? These poor guys/gals that have to sit at a field for 8 hours (plus rain delays) just don't collect accurate data, which is then worthless. My son, on a simple RBI sac fly to center, was not given an RBI and given an at bat. Maybe these PT/Interns don't know baseball?? This is just an example. He wasn't credited with 2 other hits during the week and they were given to the batter behind him. Now this may seem petty, but if PG is touting that scouts can now see this, it's actually very disturbing. I would rather PG just not score my son's games if it's not really what happened.
DiamondKast also doesn't tell me things that GameChanger did like where in LF was the line drive. You can see if someone went 1-3 after the game, but can't tell if it was an extra base hit unless you go into each inning and try to find the hit. It also isn't very good at some of the out of the ordinary plays. I would ask my son what happened and he told a very different story than what DK does. My opinion is that it's not very good at all right now and needs a ton of work.
PGStaff, you should send out a survey to all those that have subscribed and get true feedback on your program.
CabbageDad,
That was really nice, thank you. And thank you also to BacDorSlider
I think we are #1 when it comes to effort, but we certainly aren't perfect.
Guess it is time to say this once more. I never got involved here to promote or even talk about Perfect Game. Just like many others, I found this site the best place to talk about baseball. Many on here have helped many others over the years. That is what has made this such a strong community of sorts.
I'm an old boy and fairly tough, but I still cringe whenever I see a topic with PG in the title. It is 50 50 whether it is something good or bad. Years ago this site was loaded with what I considered PG supporters. People that knew what we did and why we did them. Most of those old timers have moved on.
I should probably just ignore responding, but I fear there are people here that would just keep piling on if I didn't say anything. Really are the interrogation posts really needed. If anyone wants to know the absolute truth about anything, they could simply send an email. But for some reason it seems important that their disapproval is heard by everyone. Still we have so many more friends than enemies in baseball and for that I am grateful. They just don't seem to contribute here. In fact, it's almost like certain people come out of the woodwork when they see certain threads. I assure everyone that in the past we (Julie) found out that some of the PG blasters were direct competitors acting like parents. Others are just disappointed about something and maybe don't understand that we are just as disappointed by the same thing. Seems as though weather is what gets things going the most.
I am not a businessman, never claimed that. I am a baseball lifer and I have more experience and knowledge than most people. So when the topic of money comes up, I really only know how our business is doing. It is doing well, but not anywhere as well as people seem to think. I don't need people to ask me what would happen or tell me what did happen before PG. I already know, that was the plan from the beginning.... to make things better... and we have done that in a very big way.
Let me give an example of a nasty email. Maybe a couple of you will agree with this.
PG is the biggest ripoff I've ever attended. This place is way overpriced, overrated, and not all that! It's nothing but a money pit. The nerve to charge for parking and charge $4 for a bottled water is absolutely ridiculous. I mean you basically have to walk through an f'in retail store to get to the park. Then we only played TWO games at this overrated park and had drive ridiculous miles in Atlanta to play at high school parks. Really?? It's obvious the emphasis is NOT on baseball but rather the almighty dollar. There is absolutely no value in this place. And when I found out PG gets a cut off of the hotel I checked out and checked back in on MY rewards. That is asinine.
Major ripoff!!!
This person has no idea.
Parking has nothing to do with PG, we never wanted to charge for parking and don't charge anywhere else in the country except for Petco Park in San Diego. That also doesnt involve us. Lake Point controls the parking at Lake Point.
Water $4 a bottle has nothing to do with PG, we have strongly suggested lower prices, We do not control the Concessions. I believe Lake Point leases that out.
Walking through the retail (Kiosk) area. Again PG has no control, it is all controlled by LP. Our sponsors competitors are even allowed to set up there, with no money coming to PG. They also sell advertising to our major sponsors competition. Truth is we too have to rent our own kiosk in the walkway.
The hotels... We have a mandatory quota of hotel rooms in our lease with LP. It is impossible to reach those numbers so at the end of the year we actually owe LP a lot of money based on hotels. We are not allowed to use our own housing bureau.
Park overrated and only got two games there. Don't know what to say about that. Some teams only got one.
Please keep in mind that LP is privately owned and they have invested a fortune. Everything there was done in a first class way. They went the extra mile to make the complex special.
Funny that this person didn't complain about entry fee or admission which are the two things we actually have any control over and the only things we make money from in Georgia.
BBDAD2016,
Not sure what the problem is, but we have been in a weather delay in Georgia. We did have a snag for awhile one day last week, but everything should be working well right now. If your problem continues, please contact staff@perfectgame.org
Thank you
I have a bunch of friends whose kid's have played WWBA and other big PG events in the last few years, including this year. A program I used to coach with goes there every year. The program my kid currently plays for goes there.
I have heard nothing but great things about the entire experience. For perspective, we're in Wisconsin, we don't get to play year round, there are only 2 great turf facilities in our entire state.... going to PG events is thought of as the pinnacle. My 2021 is working very very hard just to get to be good enough to play in those events.
I don't get all the complaints. If you do 3 minutes of research you know there are a ton of teams and nobody plays every game at Lake Point. Know that going in and if you don't like it, don't attend. Complaining about the weather? Seriously?!!! Diamond Kast isn't to your liking? I mean whatever. Seriously. Your kid's stats at a PG event is not gonna make or break his future as a bigtime D1 recruit.
I am very grateful for the opportunities PG provides. Are they perfect? Who is? I'm certainly not
PGStaff posted:
This person has no idea.
Parking has nothing to do with PG, we never wanted to charge for parking and don't charge anywhere else in the country except for Petco Park in San Diego. That also doesnt involve us. Lake Point controls the parking at Lake Point.
Water $4 a bottle has nothing to do with PG, we have strongly suggested lower prices, We do not control the Concessions. I believe Lake Point leases that out.
Walking through the retail (Kiosk) area. Again PG has no control, it is all controlled by LP. Our sponsors competitors are even allowed to set up there, with no money coming to PG. They also sell advertising to our major sponsors competition. Truth is we too have to rent our own kiosk in the walkway.
The hotels... We have a mandatory quota of hotel rooms in our lease with LP. It is impossible to reach those numbers so at the end of the year we actually owe LP a lot of money based on hotels. We are not allowed to use our own housing bureau.
Park overrated and only got two games there. Don't know what to say about that. Some teams only got one.
Please keep in mind that LP is privately owned and they have invested a fortune. Everything there was done in a first class way. They went the extra mile to make the complex special.
Funny that this person didn't complain about entry fee or admission which are the two things we actually have any control over and the only things we make money from in Georgia.
PG's logo is all over LP, and I don't think the average consumer is aware that they're not one and the same. That's based on conversations I've overheard at the facility since it opened, and, whatever the business realities are, in the minds of those consumers the costs are going to be associated with PG, not LP. That's just for whatever it's worth to you.
Gatornate posted:Getting back to the original post regarding DiamondKast. I signed up to view for the year ($40) as my son just played in the WWBA in Atlanta and will be playing in the BCS in Ft. Myers and I couldn't/can't attend in person. While I understand PGStaff's argument of owning the data and the cost associated with developing the software, MY experience has been that this program is awful. I've read that PGStaff says it already does more than most every other scoring app, but unless they're listed, I don't see it. DK gives velocities of pitches, which is nice, but other than that it's just simple scoring. And the problem is what has already been said. Who is doing the scoring? These poor guys/gals that have to sit at a field for 8 hours (plus rain delays) just don't collect accurate data, which is then worthless. My son, on a simple RBI sac fly to center, was not given an RBI and given an at bat. Maybe these PT/Interns don't know baseball?? This is just an example. He wasn't credited with 2 other hits during the week and they were given to the batter behind him. Now this may seem petty, but if PG is touting that scouts can now see this, it's actually very disturbing. I would rather PG just not score my son's games if it's not really what happened.
Also, while I've got no direct experience with the DK data collection and any potential issues, I've seen multiple issues with the data collected in GC and in the Trackman system in the past insofar as it was quite common for data to be associated with the wrong player, presumably because of missed substitutions by the guys keeping score. There's a trackman data chunk from a game my son pitched that shows him with two completely different release points and velocity bands and pitching both LH and RH in the same game (he wishes he could throw LH).
I assume it's not a huge issue with big-time recruits, since outlier data would be recognized for what it is by the guys scouting/recruiting them, and it's probably not a huge issue for lesser players who probably aren't getting recruited (or not) on the basis of one chunk of data. Hopefully if PG is moving towards marketing this data, they're putting systems into place to do some level of sanity-checking of the data.
jacjacatk posted:bacdorslider posted:white-knighting.... yes you caught me.... I suggest you do not attend any PG events as they are not worth your time and effort... I'm sure you and your money will not be missed. go play with your Lego's.
You an come on here and bash PG , and I cannot talk about the good PG has done for me and mine without saying I have some underlying motive? Go read my post form 2013 and 2014... I was very critical of PG then.
What exactly did you want for the exp. that you did not get?
jacjacatk posted:bacdorslider posted:You guys better start enjoying every minute of every day that you are with your son and stop bitching to the guy that helps make the memories for you and your sons...
Sometimes I think some people bitch because maybe their sons baseball road did not turn out to be what dad had envisioned ....so let's bitch.. to make us feel better....
JMHO
PG didn't help make my memories with my son any more than Lego did when that was his obsession.
It's also possible to be objective about what PG is without regard to the path our sons have taken, and assuming otherwise wouldn't be any different from someone assuming you're white-knighting PG for similar reasons.
Bolded original for emphasis.
Your accusation that people who discuss the inherent shortcomings of PG's place in the recruiting world must have sour grapes is the same as someone assuming that your support of PG comes from your son's success or your perception of it.
PGs contributions, necessity, and the money involved in the recruiting business can be discussed objectively apart from the successes or failures of the recruits whose lives are affected (or not) by their existence. Given the people who frequent this site are often looking for information on the value of various methods of getting from HS baseball to the next level, discussion about the value provided by PG and other recruiting tools is important, and critiques of them are as well, and it isn't "bashing" PG to talk about them. Feel free to substitute any other recruiting outfit for PG throughout this paragraph, PG's not the only one I've ever talked about here, it's just the one that's central to this particular thread.
It's not a perfect analogy (nothing is) but at one point, Lego was a central part of my son's childhood. They're also expensive, and there's a fairly large secondary market in them, and their scarcity (and hence cost) are somewhat controlled by artificial means. I made value judgments on purchasing them (or allowing my son to) based on all that information, that were no doubt different for us than they would have been for others. Had their been a forum for sharing my knowledge of the Lego financial system (hell, there probably is, and we're just not as deep into Lego as we are baseball) I would have been objective about my decision making there in the same way that I try to be about the process my son and I use(d) for baseball on this site.
Alpharetta Ga... makes sense now. enjoy your bitterness, I hope it eats you alive.
bacdorslider posted:
Alpharetta Ga... makes sense now. enjoy your bitterness, I hope it eats you alive.
Is there any way to season stats on Diamondkast?
In order to have season stats you would have to use DiamondKast for all games.
When DiamondKast adds all the additional features it will amaze people. Already the college coaches at our tournaments are raving about it.
DiamondKast is free for anyone to use, but just like GameChanger you need a subscription to view games. In fact, it is the same cost as GameChanger. Biggest problem we have with any scoring app is it requires a good scorekeeper. And even good scorekeepers make mistakes at times. So we ask everyone to report any mistakes to staff@perfectgame.org
Substitutions can create problems when they are not reported correctly. Coach to umpire, umpire to scorekeeper. Some coaches even report substitutions to both umpire and scorekeeper.
PGStaff posted:DiamondKast is free for anyone to use, but just like GameChanger you need a subscription to view games.
As a years-long GameChanger scorer, I'm willing to give DiamondKast a try. The only issue is that I can't find an app or weblink to score a game.
- PG is quick to resolve any scoring discrepancies. That's from experience.
- Very smart move by PG to develop their own app to capture and incorporate the data into their data warehouse. And it'll make their predictive analytics more reliable.
- On the other hand, having participated in a few SW startups, there is significant pain associated with your own app. Not envious at all.
- When the WWBA comes up in conversation here, inevitably it drifts towards costs. It's an annual conversation covering the same issues. Is what it is. FWIW: my next door neighbor complained about the costs last year, and subsequently moved his son to a team that does not participate in the WWBA. Problem solved. You get my point.
It's expensive, it's an experience, and in many cases, there's a payoff (some large, some small). But the costs for the national events do act as a barrier for many good players. So like any good market, there are reactions. MLB's RBI Academy program continues to grow to address those far less fortunate (but not fast enough). For those in between the RBI Academy and the ability to afford PG national events, PG is spreading its brand across more regions and states. My hope is that number of events at the regional and state levels significantly, but guessing quality control is probably the greatest issue preventing a broader reach.
Welp, my son got his one start for the tourney (16UWWBA) as a PO, did a great job! But, NO PG person there to record the game is inexcusable. So basically he didn't pitch and therefore has no stats to reflect his performance! Not going to say anything else as I know what my son did today and that's enough for me!
PGstaff: it is good that you clarified that Lakepoint and PG are not one and the same. I think common misconception is that you are. Heck, I even thought so for a while. Lake Point seems to be sullying PG's name and reputation. Perhaps you should make clear efforts to put distance between you and them in front of your users.
So we're at Lakepoint this week. I signed up for the Diamondkast subscription and was dismayed to see that the scorers made a mess of my son's first game. Looks like they missed a substitution and got everyone mixed up. It cost him two hits. With a small sample size it really alters the stats.
Yes, I know the stats of a 15U game are meaningless. Just what I thought, until I saw the attention that he rec'd for making the All Tournament team from the last PG event he was in. He goes to a very competitive HS and every little bit helps.
Any way of getting this addressed? I figure its hopeless but just thought I'd ask.
If you know the correct stats you can email the staff PG email above. I did that a couple days after a tourney where I noticed an error in the amount of hits they said my son allowed in a game. They fixed it and he was still named to the ATT.
Thanks for the advice...I emailed PG and the mistake was corrected very quickly.
K9 posted:Thanks for the advice...I emailed PG and the mistake was corrected very quickly.
Glad it worked out ;-)
In most cases scoring mistakes can be corrected fairly easily. But only if we know there was a mistake. We have corrected quite a few and several others we cannot change. Substitution mistakes, number of ABs, sac bunt or fly, pitching stats are easy to double check. Whether scored a hit or an error and other judgment required in scoring are very difficult to change. We always try to check team score books for discrepancies, but it almost takes video to change an error to a hit or vice versa.
Please don't send emails claiming we are intentionally trying to screw your son. That is the complete opposite of what we want to do. People would be surprised by how many of those we get.
Soon DiamondKast will be offered to everyone, rather than just for PG events. Those that want to keep track of stats will love it. HS teams or travel teams that use it will be automatically sending player stats directly to individual PG player profiles. Best of all they will have their own scorekeeper at all events/games, even those not associated with PG. All the information is documented in individual profiles, team stats also will be documented. Travel teams will have their own PG pages. Players and parents can easily delete anything they want off the profile. So it can be everything or just the highlights that show on the player profile. All of the data will still be stored for PG only use. Only the actual person that kept score can change any scoring mistakes.
Some might be skeptical and that is understandable, but this is very exciting when we think of the vast amount of data we will compile. If someone were to use this app. for every game from 8 year old through HS, that player's profile would automatically have a complete statistical history of every game he or she played. Probably not all that important, but still kind of amazing. Best of all, it won't cost anything to do all of that. The only revenue generated is from people subscribing to follow the games, which in many cases could be zero. Of course we are hoping that isn't true in every case.
Sorry if this sounds like some kind of sales pitch. It's just that the older I get the more it takes to get excited. And DiamondKast gets me excited because of what it does and what it will be capable of doing. People haven't seen anything yet, compared to what's coming.
I love the way it cites the pitch type and speed with the game log (e.g. "Ball 1 78 MPH Fastball"). This allowed me to show my son what pitches he was hitting well, and what he needs to work on. Not surprisingly, he raked on FB less than 80, was OK from 80 to 84, and struggled over that. Nothing earth shattering, but nice to have the data. Also, if you video the at bats, its cool to have a reference on the pitch when looking at the video.
PG,
You need to see about giving one or two free Diamondkast subscriptions to each team to assign to their respective overseers These overseers, knowing the team and the players, would help keep up with in game stuff and point out mistakes right away. They don't argue errors or hits. They simply keep up with their team's players. Any mistakes can be directed back to the team's overseers.
For some reason they dinked my son a mph on his profile from what Diamondkast showed. Not that it kept him off the daily leaderboard or anything. LOL.
p.s. I would feel like a fool emailing them to quibble over 1 mph.
Not a bad idea. I know we had player mix ups that ended up crediting velocities to players who weren't on the mound. I do believe it was our mistake, but your idea would make it easily correctable.
Also note that - at least it seems to be my experience - that Diamondkast deals in whole numbers, so they round up, whereas PG does not round up when posting velocities. So, an 88.7 is cast as an 89 on the Diamondkast feed, while PG will post an 88. This applies where they have three digit capabilities, like at Lake Point. At most other sites, I do believe they use Stalker Sports which only show the 2-digit read out. Take this with a grain of salt, I could be wrong. I'm only going by a couple of events.
PGStaff posted:
Soon DiamondKast will be offered to everyone, rather than just for PG events. Those that want to keep track of stats will love it. HS teams or travel teams that use it will be automatically sending player stats directly to individual PG player profiles. Best of all they will have their own scorekeeper at all events/games, even those not associated with PG. All the information is documented in individual profiles, team stats also will be documented. Travel teams will have their own PG pages. Players and parents can easily delete anything they want off the profile. So it can be everything or just the highlights that show on the player profile. All of the data will still be stored for PG only use. Only the actual person that kept score can change any scoring mistakes.
PG,
I am excited to see DiamondKast in action and see the scorekeeper interface.
A couple questions though:
- I am a bit confused when you typed "Best of all they will have their own scorekeeper at all events/games, even those not associated with PG." but you make reference to HS teams as well as travel teams. Do you mean that there will be a special DK scorekeeper at tourneys or will DK be open to mom & pop scorekeepers like me?
- One of the great things about PG from both the sellers side (the aspiring college player) and the buyers side (the HC or RC from the college) is that PG info is unbiased and factual. If the answer to my first question is that mom & pop scorekeepers will be scoring, that inserts a possible bias for the batter and pitcher of a hit vs ROE, pitcher in the passed ball vs wild pitch and fielder for ROE vs hit. Also with the speed of the pitch from the pitcher. I think you get the point. What will keep PG's credibility as an unbiased 3rd party service if parents are scoring games whose stats then go into their kids PG profile?
How about a pod-cast on "This is how to score on Diamondkast"....have someone go through how to score everything. I've been encouraging people to email the staff PG email but some are saying it takes so many functions just to score one thing they miss the next at bat. I'm thinking it may be operator error".
Just to chime in as a good friend of ours was one of the many many boys to make one of the recent WWBA All Tournament teams, and he was thrilled, but surprised. Pitched the minimum amount of innings, never had an at bat. Gave up 4 hits, 4 BB but had 5K, with 4 ER but DK had his ERA as 0 ER. Dad is over the moon that they got it wrong as it was not a very good outing and the now "factual" PG/DK information makes him look so much better.
I can answer all the questions. Just don't have enough time to do it now. Some of the ideas are good ones and we have them in the plans. I will try to respond to the other questions later. BTW suggestions are welcome. I'm sure we haven't thought of everything.
One thing, the graphics will be changing drastically. Plays will be shown in 3d animation.
baseball mom2020 posted:I loved diamondkast in that I could see the pitching speeds. BUT - my sons hits were given to another player, his steals to a player that wasn't even at the game( a po that went fishing that day) When I told the kids running the diamondkast they told me that whoever set it up made the mistake and there was nothing they could do about it to change it.
Even the game changer at Perfect game staten island - one of our pitchers made the tournament team and yet he wasn't even there - they put the wrong player in as pitcher!!!!
So does any of this matter??? Does anyone actually look at the stats - because I know there are a ton of mistakes in our teams so I'm sure other teams have the same mistakes too.
First off, when I emailed PG they were able to fix everything in less than 12 hours, so I would suggest you do that.
As far does anyone look at the stats? Well from what I have gathered, yes and no. Every kid has an off game but it would be more impressive to see a consistent player if someone pulled up his profile. It's been explained to me that many coaches have searches they do in the PG database. They put in criteria such as lives within 100 miles from my college, 85+ fastball, made two or more all tourney teams, and POOF the computer spits out names to look at, and that's when the profile may be seen.
Bottom line if there has been a mistake why not get it corrected? But I would do it asap.