Did you OVER or UNDER estimate your kids ability?

Fact - parents are biased whether the admit it or not and everything tends to be viewed through rose colored glasses.  The trap the fall into as their sons tryout for HS ball (JV/Varsity) is comparing their son to the other players.  Coaches generally don't do that.  They are looking for specific skills required to play ball at that level.

 

To be honest, I knew I was biased so I tended to be harder on my own kid.  It wasn't until he received a D2 offer after two years of JuCo ball that I was content that he was "good".  And this was after he earned District and Regional Honors in HS and Regional Honors in JuCo.

It's very rare to find a parent that doen't overestimate their kid.  They are out there, but hard to find.  Let's face it - we all love our boys and want the most for them.  We wish them to be the best they can be.

 

The other thing I've noted is that people tend to focus very intently on their own kid.  Every little thing he does right, they notice, even if its a small thing that may go unnoticed by others.  Those things accumulate and people convince themselves he may be better than he actually is, when the reality is many other kids are doing the right little things too.

I don't know that I've met a parent yet that doesn't have rose colored glasses on - including me - and to a certain extent that is fine.  Actually good!  We parents need to be there to encourage our kids when others have doubts - its part of how we teach them to get through life's bumpy spots and rise to important occasions.

 

But to me, the key was to do my best to 'temper' those rose glasses so that I could do the best job possible of figuring out where our sons fit and getting them in a position to prove it.  Oh, I believe I 'stepped in it' a time or two, but felt the gentle pushback before it became an outright shove or punch back.

 

I figure the baseball "system" - youth, HS, travel, college...pro - does its job of sorting it all out and getting your son to about the right place that he belongs.  Sure, it takes some breaks and our sons got more than a few of those.  And it seems to now require creating opportunities for your sons - they may not just find you!!

 

But I learned my rose glasses could only create problems and there was no good reason to expose them time and time again.

I don't think I've either over estimated or underestimate my son's talent.  I think I've always seen pretty clearly what he can and can't do.  Haven't had many surprises there over the years.  Since he started out sort of just tolerating baseball in little league and pony league and it wasn't until he turned 12 that he started taking it seriously,  it would have been hard to "overestimate" his talent.  I mean he was the kid who picked flowers in the outfield and goofed around during practice the first couple years.  You could see flashes of his athleticism every now and then, but he didn't really apply it all that much. 

 

But think partly because of his early indifference and just partly because he doesn't always show his inward emotions, as he started to take it seriously,  he actually  constantly surprised me with his drive, focus, and unquenchable desire when it comes to baseball.  So  I think I definitely did underestimate hi, in one way, for awhile and by a good margin.    

 

What started to open my eyes was the fact that the kid has had a lot of setbacks -- I mean a lot of them.   Through it all, he has kept his head down,  kept working and working, kept his confidence up through it all and has kept loving the game even though it hasn't always returned his love.  That has really taken me by surprise over the years. What it took me awhile to realize that his outward apparently happy-go-lucky exterior is just his exterior.  Inwardly he is intensely competitive and intensely driven.    It turns out baseball is what makes him get up in the morning.  The rest of it -- not so much. 

 

I keep urging him to bring the same qualities to his life in general -- especially school.   So far he hasn't quite done that, though he did get better over the years. Hopefully college will be a fresh start. 

As our son progressed as a  player and especially with the college recruiting process, two separate realizations really struck me.

The first is how important it is for most son's who compete in a sport like baseball, where there is so much failure, to feel they are meeting and hopefully exceeding the parents expectations. They want us to be happy and be proud of them. They will generate pressure to perform partly because of who they are but partly because of who they are to us, and how they view that relationship. The more judgmental we are, especially in a negative way with what they are doing, the more pressure and less fun the game is for them.  If they are pointedly honest, I also think they know when their parent is blowing smoke about them...and they don't like it. They don't like what it does in their peer group and they don't like being portrayed and held out as something they are not.

The most important realization I think I made for our son was that my assessment of his ability was irrelevant as he progressed.  The important perspective about being over or underestimated was a judgment of his abilities that  he made for himself, and used that as motivation and his work ethic,  and the assessment which was made by his HS coaches, college recruiters, college coaches,  Summer wood bat league GM's and coaches and eventually professional scouts and coaches in Milb.

In general, if we put together a "judgment" of those who really mattered,from his junior year in HS until an injury finished his Milb career in the 4th year, it appears he was one who was underestimated, but  outperformed those estimations at every level.

 

I don't have a college age kid yet, but I agree with the general consensus that we all tend to see our kids through rose colored glasses, at least to some extent. I think the parents that are more successful at tempering that are the ones who are more self aware and can make themselves pull back and see reality, at least every once in a while.

 

We have a kid on our team that has real potential and is hands down the best player on the team and it's not my kid. He earned second team all state as a Sophomore this year. You can quickly see that he is more advanced than the other players and he will play in college. It doesn't hurt that his older brother already has a CWS ring, so he has a great role model. The parents of this kid NEVER talk about how good he is. They don't need to. Everybody around already knows it and the kid's playing speaks for itself. They do talk about how good the other kids on the team are and they are huge encouragers of the entire program. We are very lucky to have these parents and this young man as part of our program.

Great answers people!  As a follow up question, does your kid over or under estimate their own ability?  I know every baseball player from the dawn of time has had a slump...does your kid accept that he is just in a slump or is it baseball career ending in their heads every time one comes up?

To control this the one thing we always focused on was just "the next level" and did not worry about anything beyond this. 1. LL> High Perf Travel 2)  PreHS>Make the Freshmen team 3) FR Team>Varsity 4)Varsity>College 5) College>MLB

 

At each level become self evident he could make the next step. It became apparent at the college level that he could probably play in the MiLB, but not beyond this and he really had no desire to toll in the minors without any real chance to move beyond this so weighing this with his prospects outside of baseball he hung up the cleats. (at least until he gets the bug to play men's league) 

As a parent, it's impossible to know where your kid fits.

 

Only a higher level coach/scout that sees all levels of this age kid will actually know.

 

So, don't sweat it.

BOF - nice post, but I think you missed a level or two.  I would revise something like Varsity>local CC, local CC>low D1, low D1>high D1.  I am now confident that my kid can play at the next level after high school, however the level at which he might play is still a huge unknown.  I keep going from rose colored glasses and shooting for high D1 to a good pair of shades where I think local CC is where he will end up.  I've been fine with underestimating him to this point - just want to make sure I don't sell him short and not let him reach his highest potential.  I will say if he ever visits (much less plays) a high D1 school I will have to drop him off and go drive around so the coach doesn't see some dad who can't wipe the silly grin off his face.  Looking forward to that impartial 3rd party finally telling him where he fits.

A friend of mine with an outstanding 2016 told me, father of a college baseball aspiring 2017 catcher, that assuming we want to stick with college in Virginia (in-state), and I'm paraphrasing: In the end, you have to ask whether it makes sense to chase the D1 jersey (i.e., on roster and bench) vs. play meaningful low D1 (or D2 or D3), or go for the high-quality education at a high D1 school and forgo playing college baseball, beyond club.

First of all, I agree with most on here that every parents have some degree of rose colored glasses on.  I also agree with infield dad that, when it comes down to it, external influences decide how deeply tinted those rose colored glasses really are.  And it could change.  A big part of the problem with parents come when their son is a stud in 9u ball, but they don't progress with the level of ball they are playing.  Or a 14 year old is a stud on his travel circuit, but his progression stops and struggles on the HS team.  These parents seem to hold onto the accolades of the past.  They continue to try to convince themselves that their son is still the same player (in relation to those around them) that they were "back then".  

 

In terms of the player them self, I think all players that progress up the ladder have confidence in themselves.  I don't know if there is an over or under estimating.  The game will tell the player where they belong and what their abilities are.  There is no getting around it.  The mentally strong players will have a bad outing and understand it was one bad outing and move on - still believing they are good.  The less mentally strong players will get down and think that one performance defines them as a player and will lose that confidence.  It is part of what separates those who move on and those who don't.  

 

My son had a bad outing last time out.  It was hard to watch.  I said something to him about it yesterday and he just said "It happens".  He's ready to get back out again.  I also talked to him about developing a pitch that he can use as a strike out pitch.  He pretty much said "I'm really not a strike out pitcher any more, I'm just trying to get outs".  I think he knows what his abilities are and is trying to exploit them rather than being someone he's not.  Personally, I think this requires a great deal of maturity.  

 

My son has had a nice baseball career.  He will be a senior in college this coming fall.  I'm not sure he has what it takes to play MiLB.  Maybe, if some improvements happen this year, but I am not as confident of that as I once was.  His mother still holds onto the dream more than I and it is sometimes hard for me to deal with her darker shade of rose colored glasses.  If he can up his velo and continue to improve, great.  If not, I'm happy that he has been able to play through all 4 years of college.  It's something that most people do not get to do.  I'm proud of him either way.  It has been quite an exceptional journey.  I will be sad when it ends, whenever that is...

I agree that every parent has rose colored glasses regardless of whether they want to admit that or not.  Still, I underestimated how good my daughter would be.  I looked at her in terms of athleticism and it always stood out to me that she was very limited with regards to speed.  She always had doubles power in HS and so, I didn't see her type swing producing home runs.  What I didn't take into account is that she would hit the weight room the way she did.  She dead lifts 300+ pounds and that is not an easy feat.  She has exceeded anything I could have imagined and is, to be honest, the best ball player my family has ever produced.  She is a 2 time All American and now holds several season and career records for her school. 

Thank you for including her picture CoachB25, what a GREAT story!

Early on,I honestly believed I gauged both my boys fairly.

Older one had more talent than younger one. 

Older played "A" teams younger "B". No squawking by me.

Now as both (Grads 2016 and 2018) are getting into a more competitive age levels, is where you need to be realistic.

Things have changed over the years. Some kids get better some regress.

Playing field starts evening out year by year.

Gets harder and harder to measure your kids abilities. 

I have to live within my mind and accept what I see.

Then the coaches start to measure them differently.

That's when it starts getting very confusing and frustrating.

 

Have to keep even keel and let the cards play out.

We're in Georgia this weekend at PG.

Will learn a lot about where Everyday 2016 will measure.

Not the tourney for Rose colored glasses 

 

 

 

With us (wife and I), it really depended on the day.  As he grew up, you could see he was somewhat better than most of the kids, and he always seemed to be a step ahead of them.  So you would think ahead as to what his future would hold.

 

But thinking back my glasses were never that rose colored--thanks to this site.  In high school, he tried out for the best travel team in the area, and made it.  It was the only 15 U team he tried out for.  Thought he would make JV as a freshman, varsity as a sophomore and he did.

 

As for college choices, we looked everywhere to NAIA to D-1s.  He got some D-2 offers in high school, but chose to go JUCO to give himself a shot to play D-1.  I agreed with him and thought he could do it.  Goes there in the fall, so we will see what happens.

 

I dunno.  He has always been about where I thought he was.  Now, my volleyball playing daughter on the other hand, I may have have to plead guilty to the rose colored glasses being worn.

LOL - My daughter is another story as well.

So true. HS ball is usually the first time you're not paying to play (directly at least). When my son was cut from HS ball it was hard to take. I could say it's politics, many people did, but it was also the first time the coach wasn't a friend and I wasn't paying for playing time. 

 

If you can honestly say your kid contributes more than his teammates on competitive teams, there's something there. If competitive teams seek him out to join, there's something there. If he's a no-doubt Allstar, there's something there.

I have two kids. My daughter is the oldest by five years. While she was very athletic she didn't like contact. While she enjoyed playing soccer, field hockey and basketball yelling "boo" would scare her off the ball. She was a late bloomer who grew late. Softball didn't have contact. She was better than average as a preteen. She batted ninth and played right for her middle school team. She also played for a better then average travel program.

 

My expectations were she could make the high school team by soph year. By high school she was 5'10". She had an entirely different, in your face attitude towards sports. She made varsity freshman year. The head coach got her moved up to her travel softball program's Gold showcase team. She played college softball. She also lettered in two other high school sports. Based on what she accomplished I don't dream that well.

 

My son had it all together from the first day he walked on the field/court of competition in any sport. I would think, "Thus kid has more athletic potential than me. It will be interesting to see if he has the desire" (I played college ball). I never gave a thought to him making any teams in any sport. Once in high school an associate scout said he needed to be a center fielder, not a shortstop. I figured college ball was just a matter of what level he landed. 

 

My attitude and their mother's attitude towards our kid's sports have been, "I had my turn.  It's their turn not my turn to live through them. We didn't push. We offered whatever help they requested. The hardest I ever pushed is discussing goals every year with the kids. The discussion was about everything, not just sports. I sometimes asked if they were reaching their goals laying on the sofa.

Interesting question and thread CaCO3Girl.

 

In terms of baseball, I think I pretty much nailed it.  We talked about it a lot at the dinner table and my son knew his strengths and where he fit and didn't fit athletically.  

 

Where I may have underestimated him is his academic work ethic.  He really surprised me in many ways.  

 

 

I would say that my son's problem in this regard isn't about over or underestimating his own talent, when he's in a slump.  It's about him just relaxing, letting the game come to him, and not putting too much pressure on himself.  When the kid just relaxes, trust his mechanics, and just reacts instead of thinking about it, or trying too, too hard,  his very good hitting mechanics, great hand-eye, and general quick-twitchiness just seem to take over.

 

Sometimes though, he definitely presses and presses.  Times like that he really does seem to mostly get  himself out.  This has especially been true at times when there have been recruiters present or when he felt he had to prove something to a particular coach.  

 

My diagnosis is that he needs to have more ice in his veins, more of the Zen Master in him.   It's like Obi-Wan-Kanobi would say to Luke Skywalker  "Use the Force Luke, let go Luke..."

 

Definitely easier said than done, though.   

Good post.

About the Zen Master thing, that definetly comes with the players maturity and experience.  The higher up you go, the more ice in the veins.

 

2017LHP, 

 

Once you figure out your son can play in college the level tends to find itself over time. Once the Stanford's, UCLA's, UofA's don't call back you kind of know that is not where he is going to play. The other element in college is the academic, affordability, location, and other issues that don't necessarily have anything to do with "the level" but factor in as much or more. This is just part of the college selection process (which by itself is 10X's more complex than choosing a travel team, or whether he is going to play Varsity or not) To use Sultan's term, this is where the sweat really breaks out. 

My daughter underestimated her abilities.  She was always so driven.  She hated to fail and especially to strike out.  We had to create special rules for her like she was not allowed to cry in public.  When she got into the car, she would break loose.  Even through college, she would say things like, "why am I not good enough?  I outwork everyone and yet, I fail."  If we went to her college apartment and couldn't find her, if she didn't answer her phone, we knew she was up at the cages hitting by herself.  Each year, coach recruited a 1st baseman which was my daughter's position.  She took that personal.  I would say, coach was covering that position in case she got hurt.  She would respond that coach recruited that position because she wasn't good enough.  The saddest thing is, she was asked by a local paper about her drive and she said that the worse feeling she could imagine is letting her coach down and so, she lived in fear of failure.  I've said this before but it is the truth.  For us, my daughter playing collegiate sports was both a blessing and a curse.  The other day, she told me she could, "breath again." 

Caco my son is a 2020 like yours so we have a ways to go before we can look in the rear view mirror on this one.  I don't know that I own a pair of rose colored glasses for his present.  I have neer been guilty of seeing my son as being all that.  Also as you know I am a numbers guy and that's what keeps me in check.  People make fun of those of us who carry the pocket radar everywhere they go.  But it helps.  Helps to keep you in check.  I know there is more to pitching than velocity yada yada.  But you have to be at a certain velo to even get in the conversation.   Low 80's will get you D3.  In fact as I have said before I have personally gunned a couple D2's in the high 70's.   Not their stars for sure but on the team none the less.  So I feel I have a good grip on what it takes.  I will say there is little to no chance my son won't be able to PITCH in college if he chooses to do so.  Now hitting is a totally different story.  Where I have my ups and downs is what level of college?  Some days when his curveball is tight and wicked and the velocity and control are there dreams of big D1's like his dream school dance in my head.  Other days when he is just not as sharp I am ready to start investigating the D3's that will take all who can walk and chew gum!  It is really hard to stay on an even keel and just 'enjoy the ride' as so many have said.  I will say that I am beginning to wax nostalgic as his 13u season nears its finish.  Only one more year of carefree youth baseball before everything is a showcase tournament.  It makes me sad.  I am going to quit coaching next year so I can see each and every game of his last 'totally for fun' season.  I am sure 15u and beyond will also be fun and bring new and exciting things.  But I can wait.  And Caco for the two of us I think thats what it comes down to.  Just being willing to wait.  I have a pretty good grip on what he is.  What he is going to be?  Well that's where my (and his by the way) rose color glasses come in.  But you know what?  I am ok with that.  He has a dream and you have to believe in your dreams to achieve them.  And I am along for his ride so I choose also to believe in his dream with him.  And as BOF wisely pointed out the day will come soon enough when the colleges will tell him what level he belongs to.  Until then my son and I will strap on some rose colored goggles and dream the dream...  when we awake hopefully it was more than a dream!

My son is a freshman on scholarship as a RHP for a D1 ACC school. He is in summer school there now. He has always been avg to smaller than his peers and a very good athlete. I knew he could play most sports, he is just a natural. I think i "knew" he had something more than my suspicions when colleges showed interest and he was putting up velo figures that were intriguing for his size. His travel coach told him, "You're a very good SS and can make plays no one else can but if you're gonna play D1 baseball it will be as a RHP". It didn't hurt that he had a very effective curve as well. Our goal was college..no real opinion on size, but his was always big D1. When he started running it up there to 92-93 i knew he had a shot to realize his dream. He was 17 and a junior when he hit those numbers and got his offer and accepted his scholarship that summer. He started at 4 in Tee Ball and played all but 5 of those years in travel ball. Never with the best teams or with the best athletes or the premier programs, attended no showcases and still got an offer. 

Okay, I have to ask....if he didn't play with the best athletes, or with a premier program and never attended a showcase how on earth did he get spotted by the D1 of his choice?  Don't tell me one of those "camps" actually worked?!?!?!?!?

Being someone that has a lot of experience on this topic. I would estimate that more than 90% of all parents over estimate their son's ability. This doesn't mean all those son's have no talent, some are very talented, just not as talented as mom and dad think.

 

It is natural, no one sees or cares more than parents.  They see all the intangibles along with every accomplishment.  No one knows more about their son than they do.  It is actually a healthy thing. Why under estimate?

 

In the end, it really doesn't matter what the parents think. More important is how the son thinks.  And of course, how the decision makers think.  

CAGirl,

 

As my son and I were talking this past weekend getting ready to head off to his freshman year at college, he reminded me of a "Stars" or "Prospect" camp that he went in August of 2013 at a prominent Texas D1. We went and watched my video on my phone. He was 16 plus a little change at the time and probably right at 5 11 to 6 0 tall. Rising Junior. In June of 2013, he hit 90 MPH for the first time-JUGS gun. I don't know how fast that he was throwing at the August camp or the level of the batters. He faced 8 batters. Batters started with a 1-1 count. Struck out the 1st 4 on 10 pitches. Had BB, DP, BB and K on next 4 batters, 12 pitches. Total of 22 pitches. A friend of his on the baseball team came up right afterwards and told me that the HC was impressed and really liked him. This was his dream school.

 

We never heard from them again until the Summer of 2014 when his velocity was even higher and by that time he was being recruited by quite a few major D1.'s. This school had no idea, that I am aware of, that he even went to their camp 10 months earlier. They made him a really good offer but he had already found a school that he liked better.

 

This was the only "college baseball camp" that he ever went to and evidently did not impress the coaches enough in any way, shape or form. Maybe some camps do help some young men get recruited but it did not in our case.

 

The short answer is, he can pitch. The long answer is PG tournaments, plain and simple. Being in the Atlanta area is a huge advantage, traditionally due to east cobb and now especially with PG @ Lakepoint. We did play at Ft Myers and Jupiter in the last year. I don't know if he would/could have improved his situation with other/more colleges etc via the showcase route but frankly we just didnt feel like paying that $700 per event. Lots of folks who are remote obtain a huge value to be seen and graded at those showcases...if that was our situation, i probably would have forked out the cash. 

PG, this statement really struck a chord with me because I think it's 100% accurate, at least in our case. I see how hard my son has worked and continues to work. I see the amazing changes he has made in his attitude since he was 10. I know he had that one travel ball coach who told him he would never play high school baseball. The coach that inspired my son to prove him wrong. He's worked very hard on composure, being coachable and having the ability to let go of mistakes and move on. People watching him and evaluating him don't know that. Once I read your statement, it hit me that I am most proud of my son for all of the work he has done to become a better player mentally and how hard he works on his own time, whether its taking cuts off the tee late at night in the down pouring rain or doing his daily strength and conditioning exercises. It's not all about his ability and baseball talent, but maturing into a young man that can go out into the world and be successful at whatever he does.  

First post, although I've been following this site for a while.

 

Topic was interesting, as I have a 2016 son who I knew was a solid player in our area, but not sure how, or if, that translated to college.  Was he D1, D3?  I really didn't know. 

 

Took him to a mid level D1 invite camp this winter and they asked him to stick around and come in the next day and they made him an offer.

 

Point being that it's hard to guage one's own kid. Some wear rose colored glasses, and others guard against disappointment. 

 

Best thing has been to go to an unbiased source to try to get a realistic picture so one knows where to concentrate their efforts with respect to contacting schools.  PBR was helpful in our area.

 

Will say that the process has changed so much since when I was a high school student, and I couldn't imagine going through it without help and guidance from folks who have already gone through it and from various posts and advice on this site.

 

To all of you with 2016's, good luck this summer. Seems like this is crucnh time for those rising seniors with college aspirations.

PG and KandK nailed it.  No matter how hard I can try, there's no way I can be as objective as a college coach or scout, nor do I really want to be.  Sure, I can look at stats and numbers and pop times until I turn blue, but I still have a favorite player on the field.  And what's more important, I know what kind of a man he's turning into and what kind of work ethic he has.  That's why I like to leave evaluating his baseball skills up to the people that know what they're doing.  We're in the same spot currently as LHP2017, knowing he's good enough for college ball, but what level?  I know it will become clearer as time goes on...until then I'll try to play my supportive role and keep working on the man behind the ball player.

Question...when your son was offered had he ever spoken to these coaches before. What were his reasonsfor committing to this program?

Thanks in advance.

We looked and prepared for the next level. One step at a time. The game will tell you your potential.

 

For example, son was doing well as a freshman and soph. I went to a couple of juco games and realized college ball was well within reach, with continued work. Of course, PG is right. What the player thinks matters.

+++++1

He had met them once, but no "serious" conversations prior to the Prospect Camp.  He has not committed yet, but reasons to consider doing so are school atmosphere if baseball does not work out, character of coaches, potential teammates, opportunity to play right away and opportunity for development. 

Well I under estimated 2013  thought he was D3 out of HS ended up D1... Thought 2014 was D1 ended up juco ( still hopeful)  was on the mark with 2016 ( but his grades are crazy good) and under estimated 2018  ...( but still too far to go to really tell)

 

BTW way wife saw this and said she under estimated 1984 as well ....WTH

       
       
You sure she didn't say she overestimated you?  Lol.