Disabled student sues for right to play high school baseball

I hate it, but if you cannot play....then you have to be cut. How about mgr....

Sounds like they aren't looking for money. The kid just wants to participate. Anyone who loves the game that much, should get the opportunity to be involved in some way. I feel the same way about those who are not disabled.

That's a tough one. Our athletes have to pass a physical in order to play.... I mean.... how could he do that?

Seems like the article might be missing some bits and pieces. I really can't believe the family and lawyer feel as though the child should be able to play. Participate in some way, yes. Play? In a dugout? On a field with balls flying around at 80 mph plus? What if he got hit? That just gives me the willy gillies.

I'm tending to see this the same as PG...should be some way to let 'em "hang out" with the team....

practice, games, busrides, a walk-off win if your lucky, championship games...rainy afternoons in a dugout, stops for eats... checking out the 'gals' at the other school.. you know, being one of the guys

The article is kind of confusing because it says the lawsuit alleges he was "barred" from participation at the JV and higher levels, but it also says he played frosh ball before and was allowed to try out (which makes the word "barred" an interesting and dubious choice).

Although I am no longer in the field, I have a legal background, albeit not with any ADA experience. That said, I have to think this is not what was intended with the ADA.

On the other hand, I am with PGStaff - isn't there some way to involve this kid, who has an obvious passion for the game? After all, the article does explain that he just wants to be able to practice, participate in winter workouts, and in summer workouts, and not in the "traditional season." Perhaps the school has not worked too hard to reach some acceptable compromise that would allow the kid to feel part of the team, while not endangering himself or the team's competitiveness.

I will say that before I read the article (which didn't do a whole lot to clear things up), I wondered how much of a tryout the kid was given. For instance, what if Jim Abbott had been refused a tryout? Every kid deserves a fair shot - but if given that, should accept the decision, IMO.

Edgar, you'll like this one.

High School Coach cuts player with no legs

I would put him on the team just to shut him up. He can ride the pine just as well anyone else.

What about other kids who were cut because they couldn't make the cut?

This is a problem for HS sports that have to have a cut.

At my son's school, football was huge, but it had no cut. You could have 200 guys on the sidelines if you want to. (His teams regularly had 75+)

Baseball, however, unless you have unlimited fields, pretty much requires a cut to get the numbers down to a level the facility can handle. So every kid on the roster essentially represents a seat that some other kid doesn't have.

I don't know the legalities of squaring this with ADA. I'd of course try to find some way - any way - to involve a kid with a disability who wanted to be part of the program.

But roster spots must be earned in baseball.

quote:

what if Jim Abbott had been refused a tryout?

Jim Abbott did not have a right hand. Jim Abbott did not have a disability. He was a good fielder.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:

quote:

...what if Jim Abbott had been refused a tryout?

Jim Abbott did not have a right hand. Jim Abbott did not have a disability. He was a good fielder.

I realize that, and that's my point. What if some coach had looked at Abbott and concluded (without offering Abbott an opportunity to prove him wrong in a tryout) that he couldn't play or would somehow hurt the team or himself if he did?

The article does say this kid had a tryout, but it is pretty lacking in details about the extent of that and the kid's ability level (other than to note he's played - apparently successfully - for years). So the Abbott hypothetical is perhaps a bit off, but my point really is that we should all not be too quick to judge a book by its cover.

quote:

Originally posted by AntzDad:

Edgar, you'll like this one.

High School Coach cuts player with no legs

Yep, thanks. I actually remember that, even though I hadn't yet discovered HSBBWeb when that thread was circulating.

That's exacty what I am saying about Jim Abbott. Apparently that kid threw 80+, and the mother was quoted as saying the coach was "not looking at him as an athlete. He was looking at him like he's a disabled person." If that's true, that's wrong. If on the other hand, the kid got the same shot as everybody else, and there were other better options and/or the coach's concerns about fielding bunts was legitimate and backed up by evidence from the tryout, then that's life.

BUT I still would have found a way to make that kid part of the program if there was ANY WAY POSSIBLE, if for no other reason than to provide an example to the other kids of perserverence and overcoming obstacles. High School baseball isn't always JUST about baseball.

quote:

Originally posted by EdgarFan:

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:

quote:

...what if Jim Abbott had been refused a tryout?

Jim Abbott did not have a right hand. Jim Abbott did not have a disability. He was a good fielder.

I realize that, and that's my point. What if some coach had looked at Abbott and concluded (without offering Abbott an opportunity to prove him wrong in a tryout) that he couldn't play or would somehow hurt the team or himself if he did?

The article does say this kid had a tryout, but it is pretty lacking in details about the extent of that and the kid's ability level (other than to note he's played - apparently successfully - for years). So the Abbott hypothetical is perhaps a bit off, but my point really is that we should all not be too quick to judge a book by its cover.

According to his mother he's been successful since he was nine years old. How many times have we heard that whine when kids get cut in high school sports?

I, too, would look for a way to keep him on the team in some capacity.......BUT:

1. What if they had to cut 20 other kids who were also not quite good enough to make the team? Do they have to offer them all a position? What if some of those players were good physically, but they didn't have the best attitudes? Do we have to put them back on the team too?

2. I think we all visualize this kid as a great kid who is competing beyond his disability and is probably this great American story......but what if he isn't? What if he doesn't have the best attitude? There are a lot of kids who REALLY, REALLY want to play baseball, but that doesn't mean they are all the kind of kids you would want on your team.....

No, the ADA WAS NOT intended for this. And it is my belief as a coach that I should always be able to cut a kid for the RIGHT reasons, as hard as it may be to make that choice. I can't cut a kid for his race, religion or color OR JUST BECAUSE HE IS DISABLED.....BUT, if I cut a kid of a different race, relgion, color or disability BECAUSE HE CAN'T DO THE JOB, that should not be interfered with.

So what if it's determined that an inability to hit a curve ball is a "disability"? Do the otherwise studs that wash out when the ball starts breaking get to sue and play? Will it become illegal to throw a curve ball as it takes advantage of a disability?

I coached a boy in Little League that had no use of 1 arm and a very limited ability to walk. In Little League, everybody plays. This kid was a great guy, and enjoyed doing what the other boys did. His teammates and opposing teams treated him like gold and on the rare occasion that his one-handed swing of a T ball bat dribbled a ball into fair territory, it was amazing how many fielders just couldn't pick up that grounder. Some of my proudest coaching moments were watching this boy's friends make sure he had fun-on their own, without parental influence.

There are Little League teams all the way up to age 18, and Challenger teams for kids with restrictions without age limits. If the boy loves to play, why not go that route, instead of Court?

Hey, I wonder if that new alternative to high school baseball league in California would take him on. They're all about hard luck stories, right?

Having a son with a disability, I might be able to bring some perspective here. The strides our society has made in this area in the past twenty years have been remarkable. These young men and women are accepted, valued and loved in their communities and are able to live full complete lives.

The road travelled to get to this place is a rocky one for every parent. No matter how good a school system you find yourself in, there will be marginal teachers and administrators who just don't get it. At the same time there are diamonds in the rough that stand out as true champions and make a real difference.

The laws that are in place for those with disabilities are important because they serve as a safety net to protect these young adults from those who are not interested in their development. At the same time my experience is some parents are too quick to threaten law suits just because they don't get their way in everything they want. In fact these types of parents use the laws not as a crutch for support but as a club- essentially taking on the ironic role of bully.

My son played LL when I was his coach along with his brother. They were great memories including him pitching one inning and striking out the side vs a willing friends team.

There are countless opportunities for those with disabilities but bullying your way unto a high school team is not the right way to go about getting acceptance and love from our society.

sues for right to play? this is just the culmination of the everyone gets a trophy mentality that kids and yes parents are so ingrained with. Well I have news. sooner or later not everybody gets a trophy. Not everyone can be a doctor etc etc along with that not everybody can make the high school baseball team.

The boy is seriously disabled.
But the coaches didn't take him on as a 16th "player".
Either
the coaches are heartless
Or
the boy's parents are world-class PITAs.

My money is on the latter.

Reading the article the disabled boy has the following:
1) Deafness (100%?)
2) Cerebral Palsy (motor conditions that cause physical disability in human development, chiefly in the various areas of body movement.)
3) Controlled seizure disorder (another word for epilepsy)
The article also said that the boy played baseball (I assume league) since he was 9. I think this is irrelevant as league coaches are voluntary, everyone plays and winning is optional while the opposite holds true in high school, even though he "played" as a freshmen in high school.

Does anyone else see the danger of a deaf kid with motor impaired skills that has epilespy on a baseball field where fully developed kids are hitting and throwing the balls like men?

I wouldn't want the kid on the practice field for his own safety.

Trad, sometimes I wonder if the Golden Rule applies to everyone except you.

In 2010, I watched a collegiate LHP who was 100% deaf throwing 89 and being recruited by a half dozen college coaches. There is a college - Galluadet - which is structured around deaf students, which plays many inter-collegiate sports (including 40 D3 baseball games). My son's HS team played against a small Christian school whose starting RF has cerebal palsy (and reported by our city paper as a triumph over adversity using baseball as the vehicle). MLB has had a one armed pitcher and a one legged outfielder. And, while I cannot point to one, I feel confident that there have been players with seizure disorders.

It's not about the disability God is testing one with, it's about how one faces life and overcomes obstacles.

Unless you have personal knowledge of the case at hand - and remember the article is a journalist's view of the situation - let the system reach a conclusion.

Well said Goosegg.

I don't agree with the law suit part, but they are not suing in order to profit. The parents think their child was treated unfairly. I have no idea if that is true.

None of my children had any disability like this. If one of my kids did have a disability, I would fight like hell on his behalf. I would want him/her to experience everything possible. The last thing I would want is everyone worrying about him getting hurt.

As a coach, I would hope that I would find a way to help this kid enjoy the game he loves. Yes, I would show favoritism (if that's what it is) to this kid. There are many stories where coaches have done these things for disabled kids. I'm sure they can live with it just fine.

That said, I have no idea what all is involved in this situation. Not enough information. Was he one of many kids that were cut or was he the only cut? Were there other issues involved? Being disabled is not a licence to do anything you want.

quote:

Originally posted by Goosegg:
Trad, sometimes I wonder if the Golden Rule applies to everyone except you.

In 2010, I watched a collegiate LHP who was 100% deaf throwing 89 and being recruited by a half dozen college coaches. There is a college - Galluadet - which is structured around deaf students, which plays many inter-collegiate sports (including 40 D3 baseball games). My son's HS team played against a small Christian school whose starting RF has cerebal palsy (and reported by our city paper as a triumph over adversity using baseball as the vehicle). MLB has had a one armed pitcher and a one legged outfielder. And, while I cannot point to one, I feel confident that there have been players with seizure disorders.

It's not about the disability God is testing one with, it's about how one faces life and overcomes obstacles.

Unless you have personal knowledge of the case at hand - and remember the article is a journalist's view of the situation - let the system reach a conclusion.

I guess we will agree to disagree. But why do you have to make implied accusations against me concerning the golden rule (treat others as you would like to others to treat you)?

This is about baseball.

I respect the coach's decision that the child is not good enough to play. You should too instead of jumping on the emotional bandwagon.

Dummy Hoy

quote:

Originally posted by AntzDad:
Hey, I wonder if that new alternative to high school baseball league in California would take him on. They're all about hard luck stories, right?

They are in the same area... could be a good fit for the boy and ABCL could be a hero!

quote:

Originally posted by bballdad2016:


They are in the same area... could be a good fit for the boy and ABCL could be a hero!

And we know it's all about fir, right?

PGStaff, I'm sure (I hope) there are lots more guys like you out there. I think there are others, though, who'd simply rather not deal with the player, or the situation, 'the distraction' so to speak, for whatever their reasons, right or wrong.

The coach could have found something for the kid to do to remain around the team. Sometime we do have to something special for people with special needs IMO.

Trad - you were the one who listed all the physical issues as reasons to cut the player. Not once in that post did you mention the quality of the boys' play.

I simply pointed out how wrong you are to make those conclusions based upon your list and your fear of injury.

As I said before, we don't know enough to make sweeping conclusions or generalizations.

Our school has always allowed players not on the team to practice with the team to get the benefit of coaching. In fact, to the best of my knowledge, every player who’s ever been cut has been offered the opportunity to do that. Also, our school not only doesn’t have tryouts for fall ball and summer ball, and in fact encourages kids to come out for the experience. Heck our 2 fall teams often have as many as 60 players between them, and the summer team almost always has at least 30 different players on it from time to time because of vacations and conflicts with other teams, showcases, lessons, etc..

I really don’t see where what this kid is asking to do is something that hasn’t been done many times before, other than him having physical issues most other players don’t have.

quote:

Originally posted by tradosaurus:
Reading the article the disabled boy has the following:
1) Deafness (100%?)
2) Cerebral Palsy (motor conditions that cause physical disability in human development, chiefly in the various areas of body movement.)
3) Controlled seizure disorder (another word for epilepsy)
The article also said that the boy played baseball (I assume league) since he was 9. I think this is irrelevant as league coaches are voluntary, everyone plays and winning is optional while the opposite holds true in high school, even though he "played" as a freshmen in high school.

Does anyone else see the danger of a deaf kid with motor impaired skills that has epilespy on a baseball field where fully developed kids are hitting and throwing the balls like men?

I wouldn't want the kid on the practice field for his own safety.

During an ACC game many years ago, the game was stopped while one player (with Tourets), was given time to overcome an impending attack.

I can just see you sitting in the stands in utter disgust that the game was being delayed due to this situation.

Well maybe not, but that is the way you present yourself here and it's not looking real good.

If the players parent signed a release, no one would have to worry about a lawsuit.

Personally, I don't like people who try to bully others into doing things because they claim their disability was being used against them. However, under the circumstances, the coach could have found some way for the player to be involved.

You are right this is about baseball, and as I have found the true game and lessons learned isn't just about hitting and pitching.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:

quote:

Originally posted by tradosaurus:
Reading the article the disabled boy has the following:
1) Deafness (100%?)
2) Cerebral Palsy (motor conditions that cause physical disability in human development, chiefly in the various areas of body movement.)
3) Controlled seizure disorder (another word for epilepsy)
The article also said that the boy played baseball (I assume league) since he was 9. I think this is irrelevant as league coaches are voluntary, everyone plays and winning is optional while the opposite holds true in high school, even though he "played" as a freshmen in high school.

Does anyone else see the danger of a deaf kid with motor impaired skills that has epilespy on a baseball field where fully developed kids are hitting and throwing the balls like men?

I wouldn't want the kid on the practice field for his own safety.

During an ACC game many years ago, the game was stopped while one player (with Tourets), was given time to overcome an impending attack.

I can just see you sitting in the stands in utter disgust that the game was being delayed due to this situation.

Well maybe not, but that is the way you present yourself here and it's not looking real good.

If the players parent signed a release, no one would have to worry about a lawsuit.

Personally, I don't like people who try to bully others into doing things because they claim their disability was being used against them. However, under the circumstances, the coach could have found some way for the player to be involved.

You are right this is about baseball, and as I have found the true game and lessons learned isn't just about hitting and pitching.

It depends upon how severe a case the guy with tourettes demonstrated. Was it just nervous tic or was it an explosive violent behavior followed by expletives?
If it was the latter, yeah I would be upset the guy was on the field.

I remember an incident when I coached a 10U league team where one of the kids would have such a violent outburst in the dugout (when he wasn't stoned out of his mind on medication) that I literally could not hear myself think on the field. The kid was a danger to himself and other team members because he would pick up a bat and act like he would use it on someone. After the third incident halfway through the season I called the Dad after the game to remove his kid from the team. If he didn't I was fully prepared to not coach and to pull my son off the team.

I'm sure now days he would be classified as having a disability and I would be considered heartless for not keeping him on the team.

You didn't get my point, this is about compassion, which you seem to be lacking.

Having any disability does not mean one cannot compete in anything. If there was the slightest indication made that he didn't make it because he was disabled, they have a strong case.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
You didn't get my point, this is about compassion, which you seem to be lacking.

Having any disability does not mean one cannot compete in anything. If there was the slightest indication made that he didn't make it because he was disabled, they have a strong case.

I didn't know you could read the hearts of men through the internet?
I want you to pick my next lotto numbers please.
From the article it appeared that the coach did make a strong case that the disabled kid couldn't beat out the ones who did make the team. According to the kid's lawyer "They feel he didn't score high enough in tryouts".
But everyone is second guessing the coach which I was told was taboo in other posts. I'm getting mixed messages.

quote:

If there was the slightest indication made that he didn't make it because he was disabled, they have a strong case.

for a job you have a requirement. for example to be a navy seal you have to perform certain physical tasks. would the above apply here?

Trad, I can't read your heart; I can, however, read your words. And, that is enough.

There is always a way...to allow someone to participate.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:

quote:

If there was the slightest indication made that he didn't make it because he was disabled, they have a strong case.

for a job you have a requirement. for example to be a navy seal you have to perform certain physical tasks. would the above apply here?

I was just suggesting that if they in any way indicated he didn't make the cut because he was disabled, he's got a good case, you can't discriminate like that. It would be the same as saying the girl didn't make the team because she was a female.

I have no issue if he wasn't as good as the others, to not make the cut.

I was suggesting that there could have been another way to let him remain involved.

There are perfectly good medications available for seizures nowadays.
Got a buddy that has a very mild case of CP.
There was a deaf player in the majors. Forgot his name.

So how are the boy's playing skills?

quote:

Originally posted by Goosegg:
Trad, I can't read your heart; I can, however, read your words. And, that is enough.

Well you obviously didn't read the words of the article from the kids own lawyer.

And please quit second guessing the coach.