Do you have a backup plan?

quote:

Originally posted by younggun:
Wow!!! Lot of great replies. I really haven't read a post that I can say I disagree with. wraggarm and twotex make great points, but so do truman and filsfan. I guess this proves that I wasn't crazy while own my mower. Not a clear cut and dry answer. Love the "risk assessment" analogy. That is where I think we have the differing of opinions. Some are risk takers and some are more conservative in their approach to life. The is why individuals like floridafan are successful without a college degree and that is what makes our country the greatest in the world. Everyones path to success is different just as everyone's definition of success is different. By the way, even though I support my son's decision to become a MLB player, we will expect that he strive for his education and a degree, just in case I hope that doesn't mean I am talking out of both sides of my mouth.

All that is great except for one thing: Your son cannot just decide to become a Major League baseball player. His talent (or lack thereof) will decide for him. That, along with luck in avoiding career-ending/altering injury.

I don't know anyone who would not support someone's decision to become a MLBP. It just does not happen that way.

CABBallFan makes a great point. The way we always put it was School is Plan 1A, Baseball is plan 1B. We always told ourselves that "baseball is not his future," but we didn't use that phrase with him very much because of of the possible negative effect it might have on him. We wanted him to take his shot, but insisted that he put everything into both.

The way he put it to people was that BASEBALL was his backup plan, but that may have just been his way of keeping us off his case. ;-)

I have really enjoyed this thread. I think the way we handled this worked out pretty well, FOR US. But there is certainly no universal approach that fits everyone. I have a lot of faith in hardworking baseball players. The kids will be fine, whatever path they choose.

quote:

Originally posted by CABBallFan:
How about the term ‘dual-track’? Let’s acknowledge that ‘back-up plan’ has negative connotation built in: The primary plan needs to fail before the back-up plan is invoked.

..........

quote:

MTH said....The way he put it to people was that BASEBALL was his backup plan, but that may have just been his way of keeping us off his case. ;-)

Sounds vaguely familiar.

Jemaz just nailed it!

Younggun - I almost feel guilty bringing this up, so please do not take it as a personal attack on you.

As engaging and thought provoking as this thread has been, is this thought process a symptom of the "everybody gets a trophy" generation?

Everybody knows the statistics of getting to pro ball. I never made it. And after finding out what pro ball is all about I'm not sure I'd wanted that. Playing pro ball and making it to the Big Leagues are 2 different things. The probability of making it to the Big Leagues is equivalent to hitting the lottery. Why not just play the numbers every week?

Keep in mind that even with out playing the game, there are tons of ways to stay involved with the sport. I'm a prime example.

Rich
PlayInSchool.com
College Recruiting Videos

quote:

Originally posted by PIS:
Jemaz just nailed it!

Younggun - I almost feel guilty bringing this up, so please do not take it as a personal attack on you.

As engaging and thought provoking as this thread has been, is this thought process a symptom of the "everybody gets a trophy" generation?

Everybody knows the statistics of getting to pro ball. I never made it. And after finding out what pro ball is all about I'm not sure I'd wanted that. Playing pro ball and making it to the Big Leagues are 2 different things. The probability of making it to the Big Leagues is equivalent to hitting the lottery. Why not just play the numbers every week?

Keep in mind that even with out playing the game, there are tons of ways to stay involved with the sport. I'm a prime example.

Rich
PlayInSchool.com
College Recruiting Videos

PIS no offense taken. I, in no way, am saying that anyone can make it the "show". Obviously the chances are certainly extremely slim. I am keenly aware that all the hard work and effort in the world will not get you there if you don't have the talent. By the age of 16, I would think that kids are beginning to realize the possibilities. I know we as parents sometimes are guilty of looking through rose-colored glasses, but I think deep down inside, the athlete is keenly aware of how they stack up against their peers and the competition they are facing. I'm not talking about the 8 year old rec league player that is dreaming of baseball, but a 16 year old that has played on highly competitive travel teams and has succeeded at every level. I also understand that he has three years of high school remaining and LOTS of things can change; injury, desire, grades slipping, etc. I am personally on the other end of the spectrum from the "everyone gets a trophy" crowd. We have dumned down our society to a certain point with this type of thinking. Sports is one of the things that will separate the wheat from the chaff, so to speak. I guess I was just wondering if others had ever thought about the "backup plan" as planting seeds of doubt. I had never thought of it until my wife and I got into the conversation, and only later after some reflection did it even occur to me.

I would like to think that I will approach these issues with my kids much as my own parents did.

They always supported me no matter what I wanted to do. In HS I wanted to play college football or so I thought. Didn't do the work needed and never happened. I am sure my parents knew what would happen on the back end but never said otherwise.

Went to local state school and studied Biology with thoughts of becoming a doctor. That didn't really work out and now I have a biology degree and work in insurance.

I have had a few conversations with my father about what he was thinking of my choices at the time. He basically said I knew you had the smarts, the communication and people skills, and your mother and I had instilled the right work ethic, values, etc. that I knew you would turn out ok so I wasn't too worried.

I think with the information age we have created a lot of angst and worry. I can see my kids' grades in an instant. I can learn how everyone else's kid has signed with so and so as a sophomore. I'm not sure this is such a great thing. Can make you feel like if you don't put a ton of thought into every aspect of planning their lives you are somehow behind.

I feel strongly that in both my kids that they are smart enough, get along with people, and can communicate on a high level that they will be successful, productive adults in their lives no matter what they do. There will be stumbles along the way, my wife and I will be there to pick them up, guide them and it will all work out.

This site is tremendous in that it shows you that there are so many different ways to be "successful" and they don't all include baseball.

quote:

Originally posted by jemaz:

quote:

Originally posted by younggun:
Wow!!! Lot of great replies. I really haven't read a post that I can say I disagree with. wraggarm and twotex make great points, but so do truman and filsfan. I guess this proves that I wasn't crazy while own my mower. Not a clear cut and dry answer. Love the "risk assessment" analogy. That is where I think we have the differing of opinions. Some are risk takers and some are more conservative in their approach to life. The is why individuals like floridafan are successful without a college degree and that is what makes our country the greatest in the world. Everyones path to success is different just as everyone's definition of success is different. By the way, even though I support my son's decision to become a MLB player, we will expect that he strive for his education and a degree, just in case I hope that doesn't mean I am talking out of both sides of my mouth.

All that is great except for one thing: Your son cannot just decide to become a Major League baseball player. His talent (or lack thereof) will decide for him. That, along with luck in avoiding career-ending/altering injury.

I don't know anyone who would not support someone's decision to become a MLBP. It just does not happen that way.

Luck plays a huge roll. Don't forget about getting "blocked". Dozens of players could physically do the job, if the chance ever came their way.

This may be a tough concept for me to explain, but I'll give it a shot anyway.

It seems to me that if a player goes to college and applies himself consistently in the classroom, he's creating a "backup plan" by default; and that there's nothing inherently at odds with the principal focus remaining on his baseball career.

This is near and dear to my heart because I think it's the path my son followed. Throughout college, there was no question of his near-term goal: it was overwhelmingly to eventually play major league baseball. However, he also paid attention to the classroom and during one of his professional off seasons,he completed a degree in a major that I think will serve him well in this next stage of his career.

When he was pitching professionally, he seemed to be tracking along pretty well toward his principal objective. However, a SLAP tear to his labrum eliminated that prospect; a fate that befalls many players. However, he would tell you that diligence in the classroom created a viable "Plan B" without unduly hindering his efforts toward "Plan A."

quote:

The probability of making it to the Big Leagues is equivalent to hitting the lottery.

I hear this or something like this often. I understand the numbers involved. However the odds are not the same for every individual.

The lottery depends on luck alone. There is no talent involved that I know of. No amount of hard work, dedication, desire, etc., will help win the lottery.

Truth is, we see high school players that have excellent odds of playing in the Big Leagues. In their individual case the odds are pretty good that they will play in the Big Leagues. The odds are pretty good they will be first or early round draft picks. I have seen many high school players that I would have bet they will play in the Big Leagues. Wouldn’t have won every bet, but I would be a lot of money ahead in those cases.

Understood… the odds of any young player having the “talent” of the Upton brothers, Jason Heyward, Bryce Harper, Matt Wieters, etc. are slim. However, if they do the odds are very good.
For these type kids the odds are good, for other kids with much less talent the odds are almost ZERO… maybe worse than winning the lottery. And even the ones drafted in the first round sometimes fail for one reason or another. But the odds are not the same for each individual.

That said, no one should ever rely on baseball alone. That path might have worked for some, but it has failed miserably for many others. However, if someone fails to reach the top in baseball, there is no reason they can't be very successful at something else.

Someone has to play in the Big Leagues. There are many stories of players who have overcome the long odds. And many stories of those who had it all and still didn't make it. Players can't think about odds... That just gets in the way!

If every young kid back up plan was baseball I'm not sure they could make it. For the vast majority that actually make it to the top it is the #1 goal. It almost has to be! There are millions of people that never had a backup plan when they were young. Parents can talk about backup plans for their children, but does that really work?

I do think education is the backup plan if possible for those that have enough talent to make it to the top in baseball and those who don't. But it's rare when a young person is correct in knowing exactly what he will be doing 10 or 20 years later.

Personally I love it when kids shoot for the moon. They learn a lot on that journey that can help if a plan B is needed. It's not shooting for the moon just in baseball, but in any endeavor. There is the top level in most everything. IMO striving to get there is more important than actually getting there.

Human beings are capable of doing amazing things. Thinking about the odds can get in the way. After all, the odds are you will be close to average if that satisfies you! Nothing wrong with being average!

I apologize if my thinking offends anyone. Let me end by saying this... The longer the odds... The bigger the payout!

quote:

Originally posted by Prepster:
This may be a tough concept for me to explain, but I'll give it a shot anyway.

It seems to me that if a player goes to college and applies himself consistently in the classroom, he's creating a "backup plan" by default; and that there's nothing inherently at odds with the principal focus remaining on his baseball career.

This is near and dear to my heart because I think it's the path my son followed. Throughout college, there was no question of his near-term goal: it was overwhelmingly to eventually play major league baseball. However, he also paid attention to the classroom and during one of his professional off seasons,he completed a degree in a major that I think will serve him well in this next stage of his career.

When he was pitching professionally, he seemed to be tracking along pretty well toward his principal objective. However, a SLAP tear to his labrum eliminated that prospect; a fate that befalls many players. However, he would tell you that diligence in the classroom created a viable "Plan B" without unduly hindering his efforts toward "Plan A."

Great post, Prepster. Baseball creates dynamite opportunities on and off the field and can enhance players in every way, especially when they take care of business in the classroom. On the field, it is amazingly and heartbreakingly fragile, which you do not know until you know.

Sorry if I was a little bit of a "Debbie Downer".

Great point on the talent part PGStaff.

And honestly, if a kid has talent and gets an opportunity, I say go for it.

Right now the trend is to go to college and not sign if drafted lower then expected. Screw that! If your goal is to a pro guy then sign! Because you never know how long you have.

You can get a college degree with a busted arm or knee at the age of 28. But you can't sign with a club at 21 if you have a busted arm or knee.

Rich
PlayInSchool.com

A kid where I now live turned down 2.5M to play at a ranked program. Had my son been this kid I would have told him go with Plan A and sign. Plan B would be if Plan A doesn't work out he starts college a few years later with twenty-five years worth of income in the bank.

What it really comes down to is getting life altering money. Each person has to decide the number for themselves. If a kid isn't offered life altering money he should have an active Plan B (college/degree). Plan B should be what degree will get the player started in life if Plan A doesn't pan out.

I'd rather be poor with dreams than rich with none.

This thread has been most enjoyable to read. I've enjoyed everyone's take on this one.

I know a kid who in this last draft turned down 4+M to continue to play at a ranked program. One thing we can be sure of, circumstances and priorities vary from person to person and family to family.

RJM -

That kid has some major cojones to turn that down.

This years draft only had about 11 guys that got more then that. http://bleacherreport.com/arti...of-the-top-prospects

But there were about 1,227 that got less then that. Plus countless that didn't even get drafted. http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl...vkey=pr_mlb&c_id=mlb


Too me, that is just crazy.

Rich
PlayInSchool.com

Seems kinda crazy to me too. But some degrees at certain prestigious universities may be worth more than the 4M. . . huh???

quote:

Originally posted by Truman:
Seems kinda crazy to me too. But some degrees at certain prestigious universities may be worth more than the 4M. . . huh???

Unlike some Democrats in this country, I don't begrudge wealth. I doubt they are valuing the degree in that manner, but of course, that is just speculation. If the family is wealthy however, that would provide the young man options that perhaps others don't have.

Truman,

could it be the young man from Stanford the pirates drafted this year? A lot of people were surprised he slid to the 8th spot,I think. His agent and others must have knew something that the good old buccos didn't.

I think the pirates even offered above slot money. It will be interesting to see if the kids plan works for him. Could be worse things than playing another season for Stanford. I think the same kid turned down pretty decent money before he went to school.

In the case of Appel, not signing for 4 Million sounds like a huge risk to those of us that have raised families, lived pretty much paycheck to paycheck and are used to seeing the money run out before the month does.

But look at the risk versus the reward. He could and probably will borrowing a devastating injury, enter next years draft at the #1 prospect position. The improvement on signing bonus alone will be eye catching. Perhaps 8 Million. And there are distinct advantages of being the first pick in the draft. Advantages that last lifetimes.

The Pirates, as in Neal Huntington, officially said that they knew Appel was going to be a hard sign but as an organization it is their philosophy to continue making calculated risks. What he didn't say was that the organization is already loaded with pitching prospects and it really didn't scuff up their planning by taking a chance knowing that they were going to be compensated with the #9 overall pick next year. And the Pittsburgh Pirates are dancing to the tune of a different drummer despite their "generation of losing" that they just finished. Put it this way, they saved big money with the first pick which made the rest of the signings a breeze.

Appel did the right thing. He is a rare commodity. He didn't sell himself short. He put himself in position to maximize his potential. And he has a great backup plan! Yes, I do believe in back up plans. Every great plan has a great back up plan.

quote:

Originally posted by mmm1531:
Truman,

could it be the young man from Stanford the pirates drafted this year?

Yup

quote:

Originally posted by mmm1531:
A lot of people were surprised he slid to the 8th spot,I think. His agent and others must have knew something that the good old buccos didn't.

WE just don't know what was going on in the talks just prior to the draft.

quote:

Originally posted by mmm1531:
I think the pirates even offered above slot money. It will be interesting to see if the kids plan works for him. Could be worse things than playing another season for Stanford. I think the same kid turned down pretty decent money before he went to school.

Yes, that was the second time. The way the talk is now about him, I don't think he'll be any worse off some next June (barring any injury issues that might crop up). He's a good and smart kid and he'll do just fine.

quote:

Originally posted by Prepster:
This may be a tough concept for me to explain, but I'll give it a shot anyway.

It seems to me that if a player goes to college and applies himself consistently in the classroom, he's creating a "backup plan" by default; and that there's nothing inherently at odds with the principal focus remaining on his baseball career.

This is near and dear to my heart because I think it's the path my son followed. Throughout college, there was no question of his near-term goal: it was overwhelmingly to eventually play major league baseball. However, he also paid attention to the classroom and during one of his professional off seasons,he completed a degree in a major that I think will serve him well in this next stage of his career.

When he was pitching professionally, he seemed to be tracking along pretty well toward his principal objective. However, a SLAP tear to his labrum eliminated that prospect; a fate that befalls many players. However, he would tell you that diligence in the classroom created a viable "Plan B" without unduly hindering his efforts toward "Plan A."

Excellent!

PA Dino -

Are you going on record stating that next years #1 draft will sign for $8 million?

Despite this years only signing for $4.8 and #2 signing for $6?

I'm guessing Appels agent is thinking along your lines too!

I certainly hope it works out for the kid. That is some serious cabbage.

Rich
PlayInSchool.com

I agree this has been a great thread. YoungGun, to answer your question directly - yes, talking about having a backup plan could plant a seed of doubt at least to some degree, particularly if it is discussed as a backup plan or a "plan B". To what degree can certainly vary from person to person and how it is discussed.

I have a slightly different take on how to approach this with a young HS teen...
Baseball is an awesome gig for someone who really loves the game. A young man is extremely fortunate if he is able to play ball for any length of time, including the professional level. It is a privilege. It is a dream worth shooting for. Go for it.
OK, now that you are going all out toward your dream, what are you going to give back to society? What truly meaningful after-baseball career do you want to pursue that will define the "giving" part of who you are? What positive mark do you want to leave on this earth?

This approach can get them thinking about their post-ball career without planting a seed of doubt about playing ball, and without downplaying the importance of thinking about a meaningful career path outside of playing.

quote:

Originally posted by PIS:
PA Dino -

Are you going on record stating that next years #1 draft will sign for $8 million?

Despite this years only signing for $4.8 and #2 signing for $6?

I'm guessing Appels agent is thinking along your lines too!

I certainly hope it works out for the kid. That is some serious cabbage.

Rich
PlayInSchool.com

That should be interesting, some other young stud may come along and sign for the 4 million as a first pick.

quote:

PA Dino -

Are you going on record stating that next years #1 draft will sign for $8 million?

Despite this years only signing for $4.8 and #2 signing for $6?

I'm guessing Appels agent is thinking along your lines too!

I certainly hope it works out for the kid. That is some serious cabbage.

Rich
PlayInSchool.com

Appel needs to be consistent, reliable and durable without any setbacks. He doesn't necessarily have to improve. Given all the high school position players that have been drafted in the last two drafts; it sets up well for Appel and other college pitchers. Generally, hitting is not at the level it could be especially at schools competing with Stanford.

There are two pitchers that could be contenders for the first pick.....

Ryne Stanek - Arkansas rhp
Sean Manaea - Indiana State - lhp

The 2013 Draft Order is: first Eight

Astros
Cubs
Rockies
Twins
Indians
Marlins
Red Sox
Royals

Four of these teams passed on Appel last year:

Astros
Twins
Royals
Cubs

Last year, the Astros were assigned 7.2 million for the first pick in the draft. Truth is there was nobody in that class worth it and they knew Appel was almost certainly not signing. He wasn't all that much better than the rest of the top prospects. But this year is most likely to be better and it would be surprising to see the Astros pass on Appel again. They will have the near 8 million it could take to sign him.

Worst case, he slips to the seventh spot and the Red Sox blow a bunch on him just cause they have it. Bottom line is he gets at least 4 million offered him again.

I am not a Dad who wants to squash the dream. I hae told my son that after his pro career is over that business degree will help him attain his goal of being a MLB GM.

Your son's back up plan is harder then his Plan A.

There are only 30 MLB GM's on earth.

Just saying.

Rich
PlayInSchool.com

quote:

Originally posted by PIS:
Your son's back up plan is harder then his Plan A.

There are only 30 MLB GM's on earth.

Just saying.

Rich
PlayInSchool.com

Funny you mention this. My nerdy cousin became a team manager and trainer in high school to be part of sports. He became a certified trainer and during college was the trainer for a D1 baseball team.

Out of college he was offered a job with a MLB organization in the minors. He was reluctant to take the position given there were only 26 (at the time) MLB teams. He went on to get his PhD in Research Pharmacology. He does heart research at Loma Linda Medical Center. I think he made the right decision.