justbaseball,
I live in the world of second-guessing. I don't think you were second-guessing, but if so, that's perfectly all right. I'm used to it and even second-guess myself quite often.
Not once will we ever give advice to players or parents regarding signing or not signing. After all, either way it could turn out to be BAD advice.
Everyone should do what feels right to in their situation. No one else should belittle that decision. Even if it's a high school kid who signs for nothing more than the chance. Or the high school kid who turns down $1.8 million and goes to school.
I can only say what I would do. That's the only time my opinion really counts. I would love to have a 17 or 18 year old son I could call "millionaire". Especially as I watch him doing what he truly loves.
On the other hand, if he decided to turn it down and attend college. I'd be very proud of him. Of course, I would need to stay away from sharp objects and blunt instruments for awhile.
Ok, I am also going come to a fork in the road in my opinion. At that type of bonus money offered, out of HS, pretty high on the list to make sure that you will succeed, so I say take it. Do know that there are some players who desire to come out of the draft with more than the standard minor league contract, not just a nice signing bonus. JMO
As Justbaseball states, one really never knows unless faced with the decision.
As far as calling anyone an idiot or referring to the herd mentality, there is no place for it when people are giving their opinions and that is my argument.
PG, as always your insight is most appreciated.
As Justbaseball states, one really never knows unless faced with the decision.
As far as calling anyone an idiot or referring to the herd mentality, there is no place for it when people are giving their opinions and that is my argument.
PG, as always your insight is most appreciated.
What someone does at 18 is a personal decision, whether it is defending our country, going to school or going to work. I certainly did not mean to be critical of the decision either way. I am sure there were factors we don't know of that influenced the decision. Perhaps bad advice was taken. Who knows. I don't. All I know is that my son would have done differently.
BB Scout;
Several years ago, we had 5 American Team players drafted in the 1st round. One of the players who you and I know was drafted by the Cardinals. I told the father to sign but refuse the bonus money and request a "Bud" Beer distributorship anywhere in the World.
This would have provided income for life.
You mentioned Kenny Henderson and Matt Harrington also former American players who played against the Japan National Team.
Their advisors were guilty of an ego trip
and did not consider the player, who wanted to play professionally as an 18 year old.
the Consultant - Bob Williams
Several years ago, we had 5 American Team players drafted in the 1st round. One of the players who you and I know was drafted by the Cardinals. I told the father to sign but refuse the bonus money and request a "Bud" Beer distributorship anywhere in the World.
This would have provided income for life.
You mentioned Kenny Henderson and Matt Harrington also former American players who played against the Japan National Team.
Their advisors were guilty of an ego trip
and did not consider the player, who wanted to play professionally as an 18 year old.
the Consultant - Bob Williams
There are several words that describe people who turn down a gift of 1.8M.
I'm not at all ashamed of my choice.
And, all you who think there is "grey" area here instead of black and white, the same words apply to you.
I can only assume you'll also turn down any other unforseen windfall that comes your way.
(found lottery ticket, inheritance from long lost uncle, salary raise, etc etc)
My last try at putting the question in it's simplest form wasn't simple enough for most of you. I guess you need one sentence instead of two.
This is a simple as it gets. Do you want 1.8M?....yes or no.
Because you still get to play baseball....you still get to go to college.....your acceptance guarantees several years to develop....you'll get the benefit of the doubt from any and all coaches and general managers.......
So........yes.....or idiot.
I'm not at all ashamed of my choice.
And, all you who think there is "grey" area here instead of black and white, the same words apply to you.
I can only assume you'll also turn down any other unforseen windfall that comes your way.
(found lottery ticket, inheritance from long lost uncle, salary raise, etc etc)
My last try at putting the question in it's simplest form wasn't simple enough for most of you. I guess you need one sentence instead of two.
This is a simple as it gets. Do you want 1.8M?....yes or no.
Because you still get to play baseball....you still get to go to college.....your acceptance guarantees several years to develop....you'll get the benefit of the doubt from any and all coaches and general managers.......
So........yes.....or idiot.
Teacherman, Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Heck, 40 years ago this June I took $20,000 and I still have a grin on my face.
Teacherman - I'm really not interested in arguing with you, but you imply that all their is to life is having a lot of money. Sorry, but it doesn't work that way for me. But thats just me and I don't look back either. Many times in my life I have "taken the money" and many times I have not. Just the way it is. Sorry if it doesn't fit your model of intelligence or happiness.
quote:Originally posted by justbaseball:
Teacherman - I'm really not interested in arguing with you, but you imply that all their is to life is having a lot of money. Sorry, but it doesn't work that way for me. But thats just me and I don't look back either. Many times in my life I have "taken the money" and many times I have not. Just the way it is. Sorry if it doesn't fit your model of intelligence or happiness.
Red Herring.
Stick to the issue.
No where did I say all there is to life is money.
That's all there is to this question though.
Tell us, how many times have you turned down 1.8M
You know what, all I'm saying is that there are different perspectives on this and I have come to respect them and even understand them a lot more than I used too...both ways. Whether or not I have turned down $1.8M IS a red herring IMO...but I can tell you that I know someone who turned down more than that and "idiot" is certainly not a word I would use to describe him.
Would you call someone who walked away for a near-full ride scholarship at a quality D1 school for $100K an idiot? How about for $50K? I wouldn't, but some would. It was THEIR choice and they know the reasons they made it. Not for me to second-guess.
Haven't you ever thought you would feel or act in a certain way given a set of circumstances, yet when you're actually in those circumstances you see things differently? Very few people get to experience this decision point whether its $50K or $1.8M. Unless you've been in either position, I doubt you really know what you would do for sure.
Would you call someone who walked away for a near-full ride scholarship at a quality D1 school for $100K an idiot? How about for $50K? I wouldn't, but some would. It was THEIR choice and they know the reasons they made it. Not for me to second-guess.
Haven't you ever thought you would feel or act in a certain way given a set of circumstances, yet when you're actually in those circumstances you see things differently? Very few people get to experience this decision point whether its $50K or $1.8M. Unless you've been in either position, I doubt you really know what you would do for sure.
I believe its an easy choice. Do you want to play pro ball or not. If its not a easy choice you should go to college.
How about if you want to do both? Go to college and play pro ball? If so, there are two paths and the best path depends on the person making the choice.
Don't make it sound like college players or someone turning down a lot of money doesn't want to play pro ball. Thats a big-time over-simplification.
Don't make it sound like college players or someone turning down a lot of money doesn't want to play pro ball. Thats a big-time over-simplification.
I think it is simple. If there is no doubt in your mind, you want to play pro ball you do it. If you are not sure or want to do both, your choice should be college.
I am nearly 50 years old, have a college degree, and I have not yet made $1.8 Million dollars in my life. I would advise my son to take the money and consider college later, assuming it was $1.8M and not $20,000.
I respect the choice of anyone who chooses to do otherwise.
I respect the choice of anyone who chooses to do otherwise.
quote:In college, you are a bit sheltered and you can fail softly.
Jemaz, I'm not sure you've got this right. Any high schooler who's turned down $1.8m will no doubt end up at a major D1 program. These programs are not in the business of gently developing talent...they are in business to win NOW. Players who struggle don't play; a potential real blow to the confidence of a kid who may be physically gifted but not ready to compete head to head with more mature players. Conversely, as someone else pointed out, a $1.8m bonus is an investment by a team they don't want to see fail. They will place that kid in a situation where he can succeed at his own pace. Bottom line is risk of failure may actually be higher in a pressure-filled D1 program.
Here is my take on this topic. Adam Loewen, a couple years ago was drafted 4th overall by the Orioles. Now he was offered something like 2.8 million or something like that, I don't quite remember the exact amount. The player who was drafted 4th overall the year before got 4 million and so being drafted in the same slot should entitle the player to the same type of money. I understand that it seems gready and that only an idiot would turn down the 2.8, but I was around Adam while he was going through the negotiations and the "agent/advisor" has a LOT to do with what the kid signs for. Adam wasn't being gready, he just felt he was being low balled, and I think rightfully so. I talked with Adam the last day before he was to go to college and he was still undecided on whether he should take the money or not. Yes, he would be set for the rest of his life and he would risk injury and never getting the money if he went to college, but sometimes it's about the principal. Adam and his agent chose not to take the money and went down to Chipola JC in Fla. and it all worked in his favour. He had a full ride to ASU but figured if he went to Chipola he could re-enter the draft the very next year. This was all risk but it worked for him and I don't blame him one bit. I think before people make assumptions of kids, you have to really know them and know what went on behind closed doors before you can give them a label of being greedy or whatnot. In the end, Adam got what a 4th overall pick was getting at the time and the Orioles didn't get to low ball him. I still don't think these kids are worth that much money since they haven't proven themselves in the big leagues, but if someone is going to pay the money, why not take it?
quote:Yes, he would be set for the rest of his life and he would risk injury and never getting the money if he went to college, but sometimes it's about the principal.
No one ever said being right was free. I'm glad things worked out.
I just can't imagine the scenario as a high school student saying "Mr. Angelos, I just can't compromise my principals and take that check for $2,400,000. I'm sure you understand."
"Please forward any correspondence to Chipola Jr. College, Freshman Dorm."
For some people in this world it is not all about the money--don't ever forget that !
That's a good thing because employers need employees.
The Adam Loewen case is interesting. He turned down the 4 year college and turned down the 2.8 million. He instead attended a Junior College for what one has to think was the ability to sign for more than the 2.8 or get redrafted and get more.
The risk paid off in his case because he ended up getting over 4 million from the same club that drafted him before.
I guess, you could say it was all about principle, but obviously it seems it was all about the money.
In his case it worked out well financially, but now will it work out for the Orioles. In his first year of pro ball he averaged over 6 walks per 9 innings with nearly a 5.00 ERA in the lower levels. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.
I've always had a hard time thinking there are 4 million dollar "bargains" out there playing high school baseball. 4 million is the present cost of three mid 1st rounders. Of course it's cheaper than signing established free agents.
The risk paid off in his case because he ended up getting over 4 million from the same club that drafted him before.
I guess, you could say it was all about principle, but obviously it seems it was all about the money.
In his case it worked out well financially, but now will it work out for the Orioles. In his first year of pro ball he averaged over 6 walks per 9 innings with nearly a 5.00 ERA in the lower levels. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.
I've always had a hard time thinking there are 4 million dollar "bargains" out there playing high school baseball. 4 million is the present cost of three mid 1st rounders. Of course it's cheaper than signing established free agents.
I understand and agree with what most of you are saying. I personally would of taken the money Adam was offered in the first place. I really think his decision was highly influenced by his agent. The way Adam acted the last few days before he went to Chipola wasn't the same Adam. He was really stressing over the situation, which I understand and didn't want to come across as he did come across, greedy. Adams parents are both teachers and would of rathered seen him go to ASU and get an education then see what happens after. I guess you can't make everyone happy, but I know Adam didn't do it for the money. And like I said before, I don't think anyone is worth 4 million until they prove themselves in the big leagues.
PS...on how Adam's done in his first couple season, yeah it's been very rocky and I'm sure they have expected way more, but he was injured and says he feels 100% this year. I think this year will be a big year for him and everyone can see just how good he can be.
PS...on how Adam's done in his first couple season, yeah it's been very rocky and I'm sure they have expected way more, but he was injured and says he feels 100% this year. I think this year will be a big year for him and everyone can see just how good he can be.