Down to 2 schools - lists of pros and cons

GOMO,son and I are a year behind you and it looks like we will be following the same path so be prepared for me to pick your brain on your experiences over the last 2 years.Best of luck on which ever way your son go`s.

Here is a good list, right here at home on the hsbaseballweb....

http://www.hsbaseballweb.com/questions_to_ask.htm

What drunk sailor put that list together ?

GoMo:

I've been working on a forced ranking matrix for my son because he'll have a number of schools to compare. With two schools you could simply decide on a number of criteria and weight them. Say the quality of the program he'll be majoring in is worth 10 points, the future of the baseball program is worth 8 points, the ratio of females to males is worth 6 points, the quality of the dorms is 4 points. Then just award points to one school or another. Your son should come up with the criteria that are important to him and make the determination as to which school is awarded the points. I think once you start the process your likely to find out that he has already made a decision.

Good Luck!

You guys are scaring me.
After all the spread sheet analysis I bet you will be transferring.
Way too much time on your hands.

Thanks guys!

I'm a numbers guy here at work, so I love putting spreadsheets together.

One of the reasons I want to do this is because I'm not sure he'll know all the criteria that's important. He'll think of a few, but I want to do this so there will be things that he may not have thought of.

3rdGen - that's exactly how I'm doing this. I started with the list that B17 mentioned, and weighted them. Each will get a value of 1-5 and then its weighted (.5 for not so important, 1 for normal, and 1.5 for an important category).

This may be more fun than anything else, but it may reveal something. I'm sure my kid will shake his head at me when I show this to him, but my job is to support him and give him the right info so HE can make the right decision.

Bobble - considering all the posts of how involved you were with your son's recruiting, I'm suprised at your attitude on this. We're coming down to the wire here, and though I'm so happy he may have two outstanding choices, I want to make sure he makes the right decision.

I figured you guys were accountants or something like that. You know fun with numbers.
My attitude is the same as it was when were were under the recruiting buss. We enjoyed it and would never dream of "analysis by numbers". Too many things change and the values assigned don't reflect reality.
Fisrt you shouldn't look at a college that doesn't meet the academic requirements. That may eliminate a pile of colleges. Once you have that out of the way location should be important. Eliminate a bunch that don't suite your son. Mine likes cities with a social element and in a hot climate. That eliminated a pile more. We also wanted cheap airfares. Las Vegas was top of the list. Next was BB. Had to play top teams at D1 level. Now the list was pretty short. Anyone on the list with a great scholarship offer was of interest. Now you see who wants him the most.
Too much analysis by numbers may work but you know what they say about the best laid plans . My view is that parents way over think the process.

quote:

Originally posted by 3rdgenerationnation:
GoMo:

I've been working on a forced ranking matrix for my son because he'll have a number of schools to compare. With two schools you could simply decide on a number of criteria and weight them. Say the quality of the program he'll be majoring in is worth 10 points, the future of the baseball program is worth 8 points, the ratio of females to males is worth 6 points, the quality of the dorms is 4 points. Then just award points to one school or another. Your son should come up with the criteria that are important to him and make the determination as to which school is awarded the points. I think once you start the process your likely to find out that he has already made a decision.

Good Luck!

Your ranking system needs an adjustment. I also do not see a weighting system on how good looking they are.....come on now get your priorities in order.

BOF:

This was just an example of what my system might look like. I'm sure 4thGen would have assigned a different set of point values. In fact, I think he has one school on his list because he saw the ratio of coeds was really high. I just shook my head and tried to impart a little mature wisdom on him. I reminded him to always think quality not quantity........

You can come up with a list. In the end after you visit both schools and sit with the coaches which one did he feel was right and the most comfortable to him. When my son went through this all the schools he visited all offered a great education. He did not pick the one with the best facilities or locker rooms if that was the case he would have chose Texas. He will still play no matter the facilities. He will even play at UT. He chose the one that when he left after the visit he said "This is the one." He will know. With that said I will now throw a kink into it. You still have to be able to afford it.

i highly recommend visits to school with and without baseball in mind. There were schools which on paper should have been contenders but in the end my son did not even apply. Something about the visit at the school with the team and the coach just froze him up. I don't think that type of experience shows up well on a spreadsheet. For us, in the end, the academic reputation combined witht he coaches excitement for my son to attend sealed the deal. Whatever you do, enjoy this process. Your son is very lucky to have your assistance.

GoMO, congrats on whittling it down! It's a nice relief when things suddenly seem 'manageable'!

After it gets whittled down to a dozen or so, you might want to take a look at Student Reviews of the school. I really liked reading what students had to say about their school. As a parent it was enlightening to find out some of the behind the scenes thinking that goes on.

Since my son was being recruited over a wide geographic area, understanding the diverse cultural differences and how they affected school life were particularly interesting. For me at least, there were some real eye openers, both positive and negative, that did go into the decision making process.

Best of luck.

All great recommendations!
Be careful of the Student Reviews, though!
Take them with a grain of salt, as they say!

Tha Alumni Reviews are more valuable, IMO!

My son took 4 official visits and we tried to be on Campus during a school day when possible.
Walk around, talk to students, professors, university employees, etc. Ask them if they know anything about the baseball program.

Get a feel for the culture.

All else being equal, this is what sold my son on the college he chose!

quote:

Here is a good list, right here at home on the hsbaseballweb....

http://www.hsbaseballweb.com/questions_to_ask.htm

That list needs to be updated.

Scholarships are one year at a time.

Does anyone else think a coach would think twice about a player who would ask some of those questions?

There are some good questions on that list, but the offer (if there is one) will often dictate other questions.

Many of the questions on that list can be answered through research, rather than grilling the coach. I would recommend asking more general questions and listen closely to what the coach tells you, rather than rapid fire questions that might make him feel he is on trial. For example, "Coach I have a major interest in academics (or specific area). Would this be a good fit for me? Then listen very closely to what the coach says. Then that could lead to more questions and discussion.

Just my opinion FWIW

Thanks guys!

Both are good schools academically although one may be a little higher as far as average SAT/GPA. My kid is a good student, not a great one. One school may be on top of the students academically more than the other, as professors have to submit reports to the coach weekly, I believe.

One school has a JV program. The other that doesn't plays in what may be a better conference, one of the best D3 conferences in the country. At this school, he may not be *guaranteed* a roster spot. He would have to earn it in the fall. The coach will let us know whether he is guaranteed a roster spot or not in the next couple of weeks.

We think both coaches are very honorable and it seems like the players really like them and respect them. I saw that first hand at both schools. The coaches have both been there for years and don't have any short term plans of leaving. I know at D1 you can't assume a coach will be there forever, but at a D3, they may be more apt to stay.

One is 3.5 hours away. The other is 1 hour away. Dorms are great at both, slight edge to Maryland, but not by enough to be a big factor. Both are relatively small (under 5K students) where classes are small. Both seem to have business schools on the rise. Financially, I am hoping they are both about the same net price, but we'll see after he gets accepted and we talk numbers.

As far as male/female ratio, I agree that quality is more important than quantity. So the ratio isn't very meaningful.

We're still early in the process and he hasn't even been accepted at either yet. We should hear back from one school this week, and the other, where his SAT/GPA is slightly under the averages, the coach took the application from us and will be submitting it to admissions.

Bottom line is he likes both schools. one may be more of a lock (as far as being on the roster) than the other. Either way, he'd have to earn his playing time. Both would be challenging, I'm sure.

I want to enjoy this adventure and having different thoughts and ideas of how to evaluate it is part of the process. I truly value your opinions as you've been there, are there, or will be there, and I'm always looking for more info to process.

thx!

PG I agree with you. I pointed out the link because goMO wanted a list for him to "rate" the schools, and this had a good amount of what we thought about as far as criteria on it, but not for grilling the coach. Most of it you can find on the web sites of the respective schools if you dig deep enough.

Pretty funny about the female to male ratio at the potential school. We looked it up for one and it said 60-40. The baseball captain who gave us one of the tours said it was 9-1. That created a question for the coaches - "Was it really 9 females to every male on campus?" Answer - "No, but it is every bit of 7 to 1." I guess it is all in the eye of the beholder.

Backstop-17

quote:

One school may be on top of the students academically more than the other, as professors have to submit reports to the coach weekly, I believe.

quote:

The other that doesn't plays in what may be a better conference, one of the best D3 conferences in the country.

quote:

Bottom line is he likes both schools. one may be more of a lock (as far as being on the roster) than the other. Either way, he'd have to earn his playing time. Both would be challenging, I'm sure.

I would not disregard these points.

Those 3 points (as well as a couple of others) do have a higher weighting than others (male/female ratios!).

If it comes down to having a roster spot vs. having to earn a roster spot, I'm very curious how he will respond to that. I would have him ask the coach how many kids are competing for how many spots. if he has a one in three chance, fine. If its one in ten, then that may be an issue..

D111s can have a large number of players show up in the fall as I understand it. The coach may not have an exact idea of who will tryout.

the coach said he has between 60-70 guys in the fall, and then ends up with 35 for the spring. not all are invited; some just show up.

fwiw, and for poops and giggles, you guys are welcome to take a look at his video. Its on Youtube. Just do a search on "Matt Bratter".

The next question is how many will see playing time ? Then how many at your son's position ?

Back to the really important things:

Ranking of colleges based on attractiveness of the Coeds:

Things must have really improved at Cal Poly because when I was there there were only geeks and cowboys....Poor buggers at Carnegie Mellon University.

A+ Arizona State University Tempe, AZ
A+ University of Arizona Tucson, AZ
A+ University of Texas Austin, TX
A+ Louisiana State University Baton Rouge, LA
A+ University of San Diego San Diego, CA
A+ University of Central Florida Orlando, FL
A+ Loyola Marymount University Los Angeles, CA
A+ Pepperdine University Malibu, CA
A+ Vanderbilt University Nashville, TN
A+ University of Georgia Athens, GA
A Villanova University Villanova, PA
A Clemson University Clemson, SC
A University of Rhode Island Kingston, RI
A College of Charleston Charleston, SC
A Boston College Chestnut Hill, MA
A University of Southern California Los Angeles, CA
A Southern Methodist University Dallas, TX
A Ohio University Athens, OH
A Texas Christian University Fort Worth, TX
A San Diego State University San Diego, CA
A Rollins College Winter Park, FL
A University of Alabama Tuscaloosa, AL
A Indiana University Bloomington, IN
A Loyola College - Maryland Baltimore, MD
A University of Florida Gainesville, FL
A Southwestern University Georgetown, TX
A University of Kentucky Lexington, KY
A Cal Poly - San Luis Obispo San Luis Obispo, CA
A University of Colorado Boulder, CO
A University of Mississippi Oxford, MS
A University of South Florida Tampa, FL
A Florida State University Tallahassee, FL
A University of Tennessee Knoxville, TN
A University of Richmond Richmond, VA
A Duquesne University Pittsburgh, PA
A University of California, Santa Barbara Goleta, CA
A Hampton University Hampton, VA
A Scripps College Claremont, CA
A University of South Carolina Columbia, SC
A- University of Massachusetts Amherst, MA
A- Middlebury College Middlebury, VT
A- Michigan State University East Lansing, MI
A- University of San Francisco San Francisco, CA
A- University of Wisconsin Madison, WI
A- University of Virginia Charlottesville, VA
A- University of Missouri Columbia, MO
A- University of Illinois Champaign, IL
A- Seton Hall University South Orange, NJ
A- Trinity University - Texas San Antonio, TX
A- Dickinson College Carlisle, PA
A- College of the Holy Cross Worcester, MA
A- Elon University Elon, NC
A- James Madison University Harrisonburg, VA
A- Texas A & M University College Station, TX
A- Ohio State University Columbus, OH
A- Emerson College Boston, MA
A- Muhlenberg College Allentown, PA
A- University of Maryland College Park, MD
A- University of Iowa Iowa City, IA
A- Providence College Providence, RI
A- Northeastern University Boston, MA
A- Ithaca College Ithaca, NY
A- University of Delaware Newark, DE
A- Georgetown University Washington, DC
A- Gettysburg College Gettysburg, PA
A- Wake Forest University Winston-Salem, NC
A- University of North Carolina Chapel Hill, NC
A- Furman University Greenville, SC
A- West Virginia University Morgantown, WV
A- University of Michigan Ann Arbor, MI
A- University of California, Los Angeles Los Angeles, CA
A- Washington and Lee University Lexington, VA
A- New York University New York, NY
A- Seattle University Seattle, WA
A- Miami University of Ohio Oxford, OH
A- Syracuse University Syracuse, NY
A- University of Miami Coral Gables, FL
A- Cal State - Northridge Northridge, CA
A- Depauw University Greencastle, IN
A- Towson University Baltimore, MD
A- American University Washington, DC
B+ Fordham University Bronx, NY
B+ Franklin and Marshall College Lancaster, PA
B+ Guilford College Greensboro, NC
B+ Northwestern University Evanston, IL
B+ Yale University New Haven, CT
B+ University of Oklahoma Norman, OK
B+ University of Pittsburgh Pittsburgh, PA
B+ Loyola University - Chicago Chicago, IL
B+ Smith College Northampton, MA
B+ McGill University Montreal, QC
B+ University of California, Davis Davis, CA
B+ University of Minnesota Minneapolis, MN
B+ Purdue University West Lafayette, IN
B+ University of California, Riverside Riverside, CA
B+ Lehigh University Bethlehem, PA
B+ Lafayette College Easton, PA
B+ Connecticut College New London, CT
B+ Tulane University New Orleans, LA
B+ University of Oregon Eugene, OR
B+ Bucknell University Lewisburg, PA
B+ Trinity College - Connecticut Hartford, CT
B+ Rhode Island School of Design Providence, RI
B+ Pennsylvania State University State College, PA
B+ Colgate University Hamilton, NY
B+ Loyola University - New Orleans New Orleans, LA
B+ Barnard College New York, NY
B+ Hamilton College Clinton, NY
B+ University of Vermont Burlington, VT
B+ University of Denver Denver, CO
B+ Santa Clara University Santa Clara, CA
B+ Occidental College Los Angeles, CA
B+ SUNY Albany Albany, NY
B+ University of Washington Seattle, WA
B+ SUNY Buffalo Buffalo, NY
B+ Vassar College Poughkeepsie, NY
B+ St Louis University St. Louis, MO
B+ Boston University Boston, MA
B+ Colby College Waterville, ME
B Virginia Tech Blacksburg, VA
B SUNY Binghamton Binghamton, NY
B Rutgers University - New Brunswick New Brunswick, NJ
B University of Connecticut Storrs, CT
B University of California, Irvine Irvine, CA
B Xavier University Cincinnati, OH
B Skidmore College Saratoga Springs, NY
B Union College Schenectady, NY
B Whitman College Walla Walla, WA
B SUNY Stony Brook Long Island, NY
B Wheaton College (MA) Norton, MA
B Sarah Lawrence College Bronxville, NY
B University of New Hampshire Durham, NH
B Amherst College Amherst, MA
B Davidson College Davidson, NC
B Colorado College Colorado Springs, CO
B College of Wooster Wooster, OH
B Hofstra University Hempstead, NY
B Princeton University Princeton, NJ
B Brigham Young University Provo, UT
B Brown University Providence, RI
B College of William and Mary Williamsburg, VA
B Bentley College Waltham, MA
B Auburn University Auburn, AL
B University of Kansas Lawrence, KS
B Baylor University Waco, TX
B Bates College Lewiston, ME
B Pitzer College Claremont, CA
B Wellesley College Wellesley, MA
B Pomona College Claremont, CA
B Rhodes College Memphis, TN
B University of California, Santa Cruz Santa Cruz, CA
B Reed College Portland, OR
B George Washington University Washington, DC
B Mount Holyoke College South Hadley, MA
B Duke University Durham, NC
B- University of Chicago Chicago, IL
B- Marquette University Milwaukee, WI
B- University of California, San Diego San Diego, CA
B- Macalester College St. Paul, MN
B- Stanford University Stanford, CA
B- Harvard University Cambridge, MA
B- Grinnell College Grinnell, IA
B- Dartmouth College Hanover, NH
B- Tufts University Medford, MA
B- Geneva College Beaver Falls, PA
B- Haverford College Haverford, PA
B- Alfred University Alfred, NY
B- Temple University Philadelphia, PA
B- Iowa State University Ames, IA
B- University of Utah Salt Lake City, UT
B- Denison University Granville, OH
B- University of Nebraska Lincoln, NE
B- Lewis and Clark College Portland, OR
B- Bryn Mawr College Bryn Mawr, PA
B- University of Rochester Rochester, NY
B- Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute Troy, NY
B- Oberlin College Oberlin, OH
B- University of Puget Sound Tacoma, WA
C+ University of Pennsylvania Philadelphia, PA
C+ Kenyon College Gambier, OH
C+ St Johns University Jamaica, NY
C+ Johns Hopkins University Baltimore, MD
C+ University of Notre Dame South Bend, IN
C+ Swarthmore College Swarthmore, PA
C+ Valparaiso University Valparaiso, IN
C+ Grove City College Grove City, PA
C+ Harvey Mudd College Claremont, CA
C+ Washington University in St. Louis St. Louis, MO
C+ Case Western Reserve University Cleveland, OH
C+ Bowdoin College Brunswick, ME
C+ Georgia Tech Atlanta, GA
C+ Rochester Institute of Technology Rochester, NY
C+ Brandeis University Waltham, MA
C+ Babson College Babson Park, MA
C+ Columbia University New York, NY
C Beloit College Beloit, WI
C Williams College Williamstown, MA
C Allegheny College Meadville, PA
C Rice University Houston, TX
C Wesleyan University Middletown, CT
C Emory University Atlanta, GA
C University of California, Berkeley Berkeley, CA
C- Drexel University Philadelphia, PA
C- Bard College Annandale-On-Hudson, NY
C- Cornell University Ithaca, NY
C- West Point West Point, NY
C- MIT Cambridge, MA
C- Caltech Pasadena, CA
D+ Carleton College Northfield, MN
D+ Carnegie Mellon University

quote:

Originally posted by BOF:
Ranking of colleges based on attractiveness of the Coeds:
A- University of Wisconsin Madison, WI

There's a really good line here that in the interest of peace, I am leaving alone. rz1 owes me one.

I notice that USMA isn't on the list, apparently there's some stigma against women in uniform that take boxing as a required course.

Not for nothing but a college baseball player really need not worry about the male/female ratio because there is no time once they get on campus to be concened with it

The bottom line for the player, financial aspects aside, is simple---am I comfortable here--is i where I want to be?

Trust me I have had three boys go thru the process--all played , got their degree and are now in the work force in various fields---the male/female ratio never entered the picture---what was key for them was the school itslef, the facilties and the coaches along with he existing players when the came on campus

Some of us tend to micro manage a bit to much

quote:

A- University of Iowa Iowa City, IA

Anyone who walks around the Iowa campus would give it an A+.

quote:

Originally posted by BOF:
Back to the really important things:

Ranking of colleges based on attractiveness of the Coeds:

A+ Arizona State University Tempe, AZ

My son was telling me that he was texting a friend (on their women's softball team) of his, when at the Whitehouse, that the CWS - ASU softball girls were better loooking than then, now I can see why.

I am sure she gave him a piece of her mind when he got home. No more love for him

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
because there is no time once they get on campus to be concened with it

Agreed TR but isn't this



Better than this

Now I know why I don't try to have an intelligent cnversation with you guys

TR,
You still sore about that Japanese schoolgirl (A-) that struck you out with a knuckle ball?

Fungo

There has never been a time that I was struck out by a female---

I think you need more time in the boat

Trust me, they pay LOTS of attention to that stuff before they committ.

Not sure about anyone else's son, but mine found time to "hang out" with coeds.

Going to college is not all about schoolwork and baseball.

Pepperdine was trying to use unfair recruiting tactics, there is a pool which the coeds hang out there in the afternoon and the coach said the "best" way to get to the field is go by the pool.

When we were on the walking tour, there was one of the Women Volleyball players walking by and stopped to say hello, I was wondering if the kid could get a word out after dropping his jaw.

One of the determining factors could be, does the program have these: RBI - Like Arkansas

A college coach once told me the two most common questions asked by the players were:
1. What is the girl/boy ratio?
2. Does the team wear fitted hats?

TR, I do need more time in the boat but the weather isn't cooperating ...

Pay attention to all this. My son didn't care about anything but the baseball, baseball, baseball. Now he is at a DI. Likes the baseball, his teammates and his roommate. He does not like the campus, the social life, the coeds (few), distance from home etc. He will stay there b/c baseball is still the most important, but he wishes he had listened and given some other interested schools more attention.

Hey, my younger son's college (University of Minnesota) got a B+ on the list, not bad. But I think he would give one particular young lady there an A+ on looks, personality, intelligence, and all those other things that make a young man smile.

Julie

= = = = = = =
quote:
Here is a good list, right here at home on the hsbaseballweb....

http://www.hsbaseballweb.com/questions_to_ask.htm

= = = = = = =
That list needs to be updated.
= = = = = = =

I noticed that, too!

Anyone who is interestd, please send me a PM or reply in this thread, with your thoughts on:

• which items on the list should stay,
  
• which should go, and
  
• what should be added.

I will update the article and maybe even give you a mention in the by-line! Ahhh-h-h, you might become famous...

Julie

quote:

The bottom line for the player, financial aspects aside, is simple---am I comfortable here--is i where I want to be?

Hey TR what do you think could you be comfortable here?



MN Mom I will have to work on the list for you.

Seriously I have been working on a list for my son and this thread has made me do some re-evaluating the priorities...

Call me naive, but I really don't think the ratio matters that much to my kid. I'm sure he'll find what he needs wherever he goes. I'm not saying he wants to go to an all male school, but he's not the "player" on the social scene that he is on the baseball field.

FYI, the coach from Maryland called last night to get a status to see if he was still interested. I think that's a good sign.

Besides these two schools, there's probably a half dozen on the "B" list - quality schools that have shown some interest but not to the extent these schools have. Nice to have in the back pocket, but these two look like the finalists.

Plus my pocketbook isn't big enough to be able make these kind of decisions based on non-essential criteria!



fwiw, Matt played for Tom (TRHit) this fall before going down with some tendinitis. I'm sure Tom doesn't need my backing, but I can definitely vouch for the support he gives his kids and the opportunites that playing for College Select provides.