Dream Killer

It's not up to the parent. We have to teach our offspring to make their own decisions.

How does a parent decide its time for a player to quit? If you see your player struggling a discussion may be appropriate, but as a parent it's not your choice to determine it's time to move on.

I think it depends on the level and the situation. Are they passing up an incredible opportunity to keep playing? In that scenario I'd try to paint the picture of what happens if he chooses baseball or the opportunity. Ultimately, the decision is his. I don't think I'd be able to tell him it's time to hang it up though.

Your job is to be honest at all times! If you build a relationship base on trust and honesty you can have uncomfortable conversation. Some people waste lots of $ and time chasing dreams that they cannot achieved. If they realize this maybe they can be great at other things. Having the uncomfortable conversation allows for growth. In the end it’s the choice of the player to stay or continue.

The money thing has to be part of it, as a parent, since the parent is paying and we know none of this is cheap.

One example that I can think of is a kid that trains at my son's facility. As I have shared before, it's insanely expensive - at least to me. $250 a month.

One of the kids who trains there LOVES BASEBALL. But, to be candid, he's never had much success no matter how hard he trains. He only made Varsity as a senior and never played. (And, it's a really weak baseball HS.) He's managed to hook on with a really weak D3 Juco. But, they don't let him dress for road games and he's only had 2 ABs all season - both Ks.

Maybe his parents are better off than me? And, it's their money and not mine.  But, if this were my kid, I would be questioning why I am spending $3,000 a year of net income on a training facility. And, I think I might have to say to the kid "maybe that's time and money better allocated to something else?"

Another example is a kid we know who went D1 and then pro. He was pitching in the low minors for a couple of years and really getting hammered by the opposition. I know he was making zero money while playing. Maybe net $2,000 a year from baseball? And, he was being supported by his family during this time. He eventually quit and got a real job.  I don't know his dad but I have heard about him. He might have been that kind of person to say to the kid "It's time to stop and get on with your life because you're not living with me until you are 29."

The uncomfortable conversion is that baseball is a game of adversity and failure.

Many players as well as their parents don't have that discussion until things don't go well. This happens on all levels.

Don't spend money you don't have. Get an honest evaluation as to  where your player falls in recruiting and make sure that you support your son's decision within reason.

The funny thing is that most players know when it's time to move on.

JMO

@Francis7 posted:

The money thing has to be part of it, as a parent, since the parent is paying and we know none of this is cheap.

One example that I can think of is a kid that trains at my son's facility. As I have shared before, it's insanely expensive - at least to me. $250 a month.

One of the kids who trains there LOVES BASEBALL. But, to be candid, he's never had much success no matter how hard he trains. He only made Varsity as a senior and never played. (And, it's a really weak baseball HS.) He's managed to hook on with a really weak D3 Juco. But, they don't let him dress for road games and he's only had 2 ABs all season - both Ks.

Maybe his parents are better off than me? And, it's their money and not mine.  But, if this were my kid, I would be questioning why I am spending $3,000 a year of net income on a training facility. And, I think I might have to say to the kid "maybe that's time and money better allocated to something else?"

Another example is a kid we know who went D1 and then pro. He was pitching in the low minors for a couple of years and really getting hammered by the opposition. I know he was making zero money while playing. Maybe net $2,000 a year from baseball? And, he was being supported by his family during this time. He eventually quit and got a real job.  I don't know his dad but I have heard about him. He might have been that kind of person to say to the kid "It's time to stop and get on with your life because you're not living with me until you are 29."

Personally I don't think what others do is any of anyone's  business.

@TPM posted:

Personally I don't think what others do is any of anyone's  business.

Yes. It really has nothing to do with me and has zero impact on me. But, I know the stories and just shared them as possible examples where it might make sense for the parents to be the dream killers.

I agree with TPM. Maybe the kid isn't chasing a dream and just likes being on the team and is still having fun.

No. If they are kids, let them have fun and be part of a team. If they are in college. They are adults. If they ask for your opinion, sure. Otherwise let them figure it out.

I like this question, but I agree that the kids know, and if they don't know, they will learn through experience.  IMO, the job of the parent is not to kill the dream, but to be there and provide support when that realization comes, to say, "look what you learned from it" and not "I told you so."

Obviously it's up to every family.  We told all our boys, about all their activities (sports, music, whatever), that we would support what they wanted to do as long as they gave the effort that was needed to justify the expense/time.  It's a life lesson that putting in effort will achieve certain results, but that other results are due to talent, physicality, size, etc.

Maybe baseball kids won't be college baseball stars or go to MLB, but maybe they will become dads who like to share baseball with their kids, becoming LL coaches, high school coaches, etc.  They will become stalwarts of adult leagues and meet new friends.  Where would baseball be without all of that?

But what do I know, our training facility membership cost $200 per year.  Good place, good people, my son spent all his time there after he could drive.  Maybe I would have re-thought the whole thing if it cost $250/month.

My wife and I were always about providing opportunities for our kids, and letting them decide what they want to pursue within financial reason.   They got to select the activity, and we supported them no matter what.   By the time they got to middle school, they had figured out on their own what they liked/disliked and what they were good at or not so good at.   Mom and Dad continued to support them and provide advice when asked.

I think by middle school or even high school they are keenly aware of their athletic skills relative to their peers and there is no reason to "kill dreams".   The parenting challenge really becomes finding what they are good at rather than reminding them what they aren't good at.   My parents took this path when I didn't make the middle school baseball team in 7th grade.  They reminded me I was pretty good at another sport and quickly pivoted and encouraged me to that sport.   I was only 12-13 years old but I knew what they were doing, and it worked.

Just my experience...

I would much rather son be at a training facility than spending time getting into trouble. Also being part of a team even if he isn't as good as the others. I wish they had that option when son was younger.

Had a kid I cut from 9u town travel team tryouts. At 10u he was a part time player. At 11u to 14u he was the starting shortstop on a bad travel team. He was a backup infielder on the middle school team.

He was a very good soccer player and a mediocre baseball player. He would have made varsity soccer by soph year. He quit soccer to focus on his passion, baseball. He grew to be 5’6”, fast and quick. And he was tough. He was ideal for soccer.

He made JV baseball as a freshman. He was a part time player. He started JV as a soph. He kept working out physically and baseball wise. His parents could afford the help.

By junior year the kid was the strongest 5’6” player I’d ever seen. He started varsity at second and led off on a team that had come in second last season and was about to win back to back conference titles and go to states. He made all conference twice. He was hitting homers and a lot of doubles. He went on to play two years at a JuCo and made all conference there. He then decided college wasn’t for him. He went to work for his father.

This kid gave up a sport he had obvious talent (soccer) to give all his focus and time to a sport he loved. Should his parents have steered him towards soccer instead of baseball?

As long as the parents aren’t spending money they can’t afford a kid should follow his dream.

Should parents decide a kid isn’t college material and not waste money on tutoring?

I coached travel and rec basketball through 14u. Basketball is huge in our region. Some of the players I enjoyed coaching the most were the rec kids who lacked talent but played with passion.

Going back to 7/8 machine pitch I had to settle down some parents (was league commissioner and a coach) who took it too seriously. I told them only 4-6 kids (of 144) would eventually make the high school team. But with the right approach we can turn them all into baseball fans.

Francis, you’re coming off as a bit of an elitist with your question because you’re kid is making it to college ball.

Should his parents have steered him towards soccer instead of baseball?

Honestly yesssss lol soccer has better $$$$ kid? Logical soccer is a better fit long term.
….follow your heart is tricky 😂 it’s emotional, not logical. Go for glory kid. Idk but I will have that conversation with him over and over! Bad momma here 😭🤷‍♀️

@NY posted:

Should his parents have steered him towards soccer instead of baseball?

Honestly yesssss lol soccer has better $$$$ kid? Logical soccer is a better fit long term.
….follow your heart is tricky 😂 it’s emotional, not logical. Go for glory kid. Idk but I will have that conversation with him over and over! Bad momma here 😭🤷‍♀️

The parents talked with him several times about soccer until the second year he chose not to play. My son, who played both tried to convince the kid to do both. He figured the kid would eventually get cut from baseball.

I think TPM nailed it in the first response.  This board is great because it has parents at all different stages from sons just stating to long retired from baseball with a huge contingent HS thru College.  I am heading to the end of the journey as a parent.  My perspective has changed considerably from Sophomore year of HS to finishing up Sophomore year of college.  It really has to always be about what our sons want from baseball.  I think when they are younger we tend to project our wishes on them and as they get older you realize you just have to let that go….. it’s their life.  That’s the Francis to TPM arc of parenting.  Francis, not calling you out, I love your passion. Our sons all have to make their own decisions.  I mean all.  Yes as parents we have to be honest and provide feedback when asked and occasionally when not asked but it’s up to the boys/men at the end of the day.  

If your kid loves to draw but has no artistic talent do you tell him he suck’s? Nope, we hang that crappy stuff on the fridge, then stuff it in box we’ll find while moving and we’ll smile…

@RJM posted:

Had a kid I cut from 9u town travel team tryouts. At 10u he was a part time player. At 11u to 14u he was the starting shortstop on a bad travel team. He was a backup infielder on the middle school team.

He was a very good soccer player and a mediocre baseball player. He would have made varsity soccer by soph year. He quit soccer to focus on his passion, baseball. He grew to be 5’6”, fast and quick. And he was tough. He was ideal for soccer.

He made JV baseball as a freshman. He was a part time player. He started JV as a soph. He kept working out physically and baseball wise. His parents could afford the help.

By junior year the kid was the strongest 5’6” player I’d ever seen. He started varsity at second and led off on a team that had come in second last season and was about to win back to back conference titles and go to states. He made all conference twice. He was hitting homers and a lot of doubles. He went on to play two years at a JuCo and made all conference there. He then decided college wasn’t for him. He went to work for his father.

This kid gave up a sport he had obvious talent (soccer) to give all his focus and time to a sport he loved. Should his parents have steered him towards soccer instead of baseball?

As long as the parents aren’t spending money they can’t afford a kid should follow his dream.

Should parents decide a kid isn’t college material and not waste money on tutoring?

I coached travel and rec basketball through 14u. Basketball is huge in our region. Some of the players I enjoyed coaching the most were the rec kids who lacked talent but played with passion.

Going back to 7/8 machine pitch I had to settle down some parents (was league commissioner and a coach) who took it too seriously. I told them only 4-6 kids (of 144) would eventually make the high school team. But with the right approach we can turn them all into baseball fans.

Francis, you’re coming off as a bit of an elitist with your question because you’re kid is making it to college ball.

Or maybe I'm wondering if he's not good enough and I should talk to him about it?

Can't assume I am being elitist here.

Only I know the truth...you're just making assumptions and accusations.

I think a parent should say something. My middle daughter (12yo) is not a natural athlete and I've told her that. She didn't need to be told because she's been well aware that her gross and fine motor skills are not anything like her siblings and peers. We've always encouraged the importance of exercise and athletics so she has found joy in running and swimming even though she's not a star participant. She's a gifted musician, so she has something else to be a "star" in. Telling your child that they may have reached a plateau in their athletic abilty, doesn't mean you can't continue to support them.

Francis, that just might be the most “helicopter parent” question you’ve ever asked on this forum, which is really saying something.

A parent doesn’t need to tell a kid when to leave a sport. The sport will tell him whether it’s Little League or Major League.

Just because a kid can’t make a school team doesn’t mean there isn’t a level of rec ball to play and enjoy the game. Kids aren’t stupid. I’ve seen kids leave rec sports because the game was overwhelming them. It wasn’t fun anymore.

The only thing a parent shouldn’t do is pay thousands for pay to play travel when the kid can’t compete at that level. But, how many kids do you see fail repeatedly and want to keep playing?

I believe it’s our job as parents to provide opportunities and experiences within our means, to share our knowledge and resources and to empower our kids to make their own choices. I also think it is too easy to judge decisions from the outside without knowing the full story. I KNOW that it is a mistake to think the only value in investing in organized sports is what you can get on the other end in terms of high school, college and beyond. Work ethic, time management, camaraderie, grit, physical fitness, memories, personal satisfaction…these are all things that come from playing sports. Finally, If we had listened to conventional wisdom and quite a few coaches/scouts and not our son, our kid would be a college basketball player or, at best, a PO (“he has a 7’0” wingspan there is no way he can time those levers to be a hitter with any success”). You just never know.

Think it's time for me to take a break from the forum for a while. Just saying this now because I know people look for me.  Enjoy the rest of your spring everyone. Maybe I will try again in the summer. I'm just tried of being attacked any time I try and get some conversation going.

You’re not being attacked. Everyone on this board gets questioned from time to time. Besides, it’s fun to play “Is this a Francis question?”

@Momball11 posted:

I think a parent should say something. My middle daughter (12yo) is not a natural athlete and I've told her that. She didn't need to be told because she's been well aware that her gross and fine motor skills are not anything like her siblings and peers. We've always encouraged the importance of exercise and athletics so she has found joy in running and swimming even though she's not a star participant. She's a gifted musician, so she has something else to be a "star" in. Telling your child that they may have reached a plateau in their athletic abilty, doesn't mean you can't continue to support them.

This reminded me of something.

My daughter's stepdaughter tried some sports, was pretty good on track and field, but it wasn't her passion. It was tough because her brother is a natural athlete. She wasn't gifted with those skills.

She had asked for camara equipment for Christmas a few years back. She is an exceptional artist and a photographer. She would go to football and baseball games and take photos then give them to the players she knew. Coaches and parents took notice. Now she takes pictures for the school yearbook.  Parents and players ask for pictures and she is happy to give them, no charge. 

Thanks for the reminder that kids are different and don't have to be an athlete to succeed in life.

@Francis7 posted:

Or maybe I'm wondering if he's not good enough and I should talk to him about it?

Can't assume I am being elitist here.

Only I know the truth...you're just making assumptions and accusations.

Francis7,

You do come up with some good thought provoking topics. I have complimented you on this in the past. I didn't agree with the money part of this topic. It's not up to us to decide how much or not how much a parent should spend. That's a personal issue. IMO.

If someone is posting things to you that you don't care for. Just block them. You dont have to put up with it.

There are various paths in sports. My cousin/friend wasn’t good enough to play baseball past LL. But he loved baseball. He became the team manager in middle school. By high school he was also a certified trainer. He was a trainer for the D1 baseball program where he attended college. After college he was offered a job with a MLB organization as a trainer in A ball. He passed and went to med school.

@Francis7 posted:

Think it's time for me to take a break from the forum for a while. Just saying this now because I know people look for me.  Enjoy the rest of your spring everyone. Maybe I will try again in the summer. I'm just tried of being attacked any time I try and get some conversation going.

Francis - Let it go...like water off a duck's back.   Continue with your questions.   I can assure you that many of us have thought of the same questions.

Art, music, and sports are really very similar.  Money, time, effort, passion, "should the dream die", various ways to pursue it, etc.

off topic for this thread but what is up with Texas college baseball?  Pitcher levels player rounding third after he hits home run…. Not worth its own topic and this thread is active….check out video  

https://twitter.com/roflo/stat...aEw8KRv45q7SfpCKpg2A

Put it in the 2022 college season thread

@anotherparent posted:

Put it in the 2022 college season thread

Good idea….

Francis - I love your thought provoking questions, and ability to get the board active (even if I personally observe more than respond) - don't take a hiatus!

I think its important to support our children in all their endeavors up to financial limits, but with honesty.

My 11 year old daughter wanted to be a competitive cheerleader.  She had taken gymnastics / tumbling since the age of 1.  She had been on lower level competitive cheer teams.  She had never mastered some of the basic tumbling that is required to be on a more advanced team (i.e. not with the younger girls).  We had to have a tough conversation that year.  At 11 years old and already 5'6", going through a growth spurt, what would be the chance that she ever masters the tumbling required and gets on the team that she wants to be on?  Being honest about physical ability and body (height) limitations was hard.  Thankfully she was able to grow in other sports she played and even enroll in a new theater course.

I just typed about 6 paragraphs, then deleted them.

@Francis7 , please keep posting.  I remember getting raked over the coals on a response I had about parenting/punishment in regard to baseball on this board.  I wanted to curl up and crawl in a hole, especially since I was one of the few women here at the time.

Funny, no one remembers that post but me.

@keewart posted:

I just typed about 6 paragraphs, then deleted them.

@Francis7 , please keep posting.  I remember getting raked over the coals on a response I had about parenting/punishment in regard to baseball on this board.  I wanted to curl up and crawl in a hole, especially since I was one of the few women here at the time.

Funny, no one remembers that post but me.

I missed that one but I get what you are saying!

@Gunner Mack Jr. posted:

off topic for this thread but what is up with Texas college baseball?  Pitcher levels player rounding third after he hits home run…. Not worth its own topic and this thread is active….check out video  

https://twitter.com/roflo/stat...aEw8KRv45q7SfpCKpg2A

This could have happened anywhere. It just happened to be in Texas. The more appropriate question would be “what is up with college baseball?”

FRANCIS: did you as a "kid" play the game "work-up"? No coaches, no parents, one ball, wood bats [taped with nails] players rotated when a batter makes out. Sandbags for bases. "Creativity" was the norm.

Insurance agents, lawyers, Coaches, sales people, writers and policeman were developed from this daily competition.  Safe - out it was debated. No one was allowed to take the one ball and "go home",

Means of communication the party line.

Bob

I would rather pay $250 a month for my kid to train to get better even if his journey doesn't go far than $1500 a month on rehab programs, just sayin'

@adbono posted:

This could have happened anywhere. It just happened to be in Texas. The more appropriate question would be “what is up with college baseball?”

Never have seen anything like that in a college game and I have seen a lot of games all over the country including in Texas. 

Sorry but that's just plane evil and hope that the player got the boot (Texan style) off the team!