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quote:
Originally posted by Bee>:
again, I respect the opinions expressed

To be consistent, it would then be in your best interest to include in your preliminary communications with schools your intent to decline any offers, visits, or opportunities from any school where any contact with alcohol is possible - it would prevent your wasted time & open opportunities for others



bbscout, just wondering whether you guys had 2004 #1, Matt Bush on your draft board, & where?


way, way, down the list. And Bee, I don't make the picks on draft day either.
quote:
Originally posted by Bee>:
again, I respect the opinions expressed

To be consistent, it would then be in your best interest to include in your preliminary communications with schools your intent to decline any offers, visits, or opportunities from any school where any contact with alcohol is possible - it would prevent your wasted time & open opportunities for others



bbscout, just wondering whether you guys had 2004 #1, Matt Bush on your draft board, & where?


To be consistant, the topic is about drinking on official visits. It is against the law, but I guess that does not matter to some people. That is until a kid gets hurt or in trouble, or worse.
FBM, I don't think that anyone here thinks drinking is ok for their teenagers or college students. Just because someone knows it happens, doesn't mean they want to promote or encourage it in anyway.

Alcohol has touched my family in tragic ways as well - my son and I have had conversations about alcohol just like we have about many other subjects. He knows my feelings very well.
Difficult topic, and no way we will end up with a concensus. But, it is more than important enough to discuss and debate. This post is hopefully food for thought for the "don't do it because it is "illegal" crowd." Admittedly, it is outside the "booze on recruiting trip" topic, but, hopefully addresses our thinking in general on this particular topic; what is the best approach for our sons?

I think it was "Futureback" who said that nothing good comes out of drinking and, basically, I agree. (However some pretty irrefutable studies demonstrate that regular alcohol consumption IN SMALL AMOUNTS (e.g. approx. 2 drinks per day) is actually quite healthy, emprically, for our species.) So how do we help our kids navigate between the societal pressures, from both sides, and a healthy life style?

Look at history. We had a situation, once upon a time, where the vast majority of Americans did not drink. It was a relatively simple matter to pass an amendment outlawing all consumption of alcohol in this country. What happened? Because it was "illegal" but not "unfashionable" drinking was introduced to, and became part of the lifestyle of, untold numbers of people who would not have bothered before. In other words, it became cool, quite possibly because it was illegal. By the time prohibition ended we had entirely new segments of society drinking alcohol.

The same might be said about drugs. During the 60's, 70's, 80's some of you parents out there may have indulged for awhile because, although it was illegal, it was fashionable. The imprimatur of illegality meant nothing to you because you knew that, basically, it was a stupid legal principle. You had experienced a thousand + kids go through all kinds of usage without problems, notwithstanding the dire consequences predicted by our collective parental units who, for the most part, had absolutely no experience in this arena. So what is the big deal, particularly when you were only a party user? Our parents were clueless, why should we listen to them? That is how many, if not most, of us felt. Given this, it is hard to ignore the hypocrisy of some of the parent generated stuff going on today. Why should our kids feel any differently than we felt?

I realize that many a present parent has taken an "anti-drug or alcohol" position because of their own experiences which were, all told, less than positive. But, we will never, ever, succeed in keeping our children, their kids, and so on, from these potential dangers by making the activity illegal. How many times are we allowed to ignore history before we ourselves are the biggest problem? In other words, what really upsets me is adding on to the potential problems drug or alcohol use could cause in small numbers of people, the incredible legal problems drug or alcohol use can now cause for all kids who happen to get caught, even if it is the first and only time they have ever gone down this road.

For example, I believe Bee is entirely correct historically. At one time all the states had different drinking age laws, some even differentiated between 3.2 beer and other kinds (levels) of alcohol. Then, as now, the best a parent could do was to explain, coach, cajole, a son or daughter about the consequences of what was legally available to them. They waited on pins and needles, just as we do today. One thing that a parent didn't have to worry about was the cost, trauma, loss of focus, ambition and hope, a son or daughter might now face when their fashionable, but recently illegal activity puts them in jail. However, the federal government (arguably illegally) decided to flex its financial muscles (as it did with the 55 mph speed limit) to tell every state what was best for them, or else.

The most important thing is to realize that this age limit stuff is entirely subjective. The age limit in New York when I grew up was 18. Here in Fla., back then, it was 21. I could have been arrested during our annual baseball trips to Fla. for something that was completely legal in my home state. More importantly, everybody on the team was used to dealing with the decision to drink or not to drink, and for the most part we just said no when there was a game the next day. I can say in no uncertain terms that the 18 year old citizens of New York did not suffer by comparison to other states because we had an 18 yr. old drinking age, while their drinking age was 21.

Now, as a parent, we need to worry not only about the serious consquences of drinking, (which are statistically tiny, but nevertheless important) but also the onerous legal consequences. I don't know how any parent of a teenager can be in favor of that. These often ridiculous laws are not going to stop our kids from doing what is fashionable. If we have any hope in this regard, it is to look at other cultures and realize that it doesn't have to be this way. It may take time and perhaps several generations of counseling. But, I believe this goal we all want is very important, and will never happen when some artificial governmental entity is standing over our shoulders with a threat.

For example, I have seen 12 year-old German boys drinking shoupers of beer after dancing for the patrons of a local establishment. It was no big deal. Their fathers' might work on the automobile factory floors where beer is also available at will. It is no big deal. Beer is sold in vending machines virtually everywhere (movie theaters, McDonald's etc), it is no big deal. Drinking alcohol is no big deal, getting drunk,... that is another story. I could go on to many other countries and cultures, but I am sure many of you have seen the same thing. We (the USA) may have a flaw in this matter which is a cultural imperative, not a legal issue. The bottom line, with education, cultural refocus etc., we should be able to handle this, just as other countries and societies have.

I brought my kids up in the American fashion. No booze until legal age, no small sips or celebratory drinks, and so on. I did not wish to give them the idea that, by my acquiescence to small amounts of alcohol, drinking was OK. In retrospect, it simply doesn't work. The topic needs to be demystified and most definitely decriminalized. My oldest child was a female athlete. For the prom they had organized a pre-party where the parents were invited to take pictures etc. It was a nice affair. The girls were beautiful, the boys were handsome, and they all, particularly the boys, seemed too young to even consider drinking etc. As we were leaving one of the Mom's shouted out: "OK, who are the designated drivers for tonight?" Several kids raised their hands, and she checked them out as they left. I was initially appalled at her suggestion that there would be any need for a designated driver. But, as I drove home, I was quite thankful for her perceptions, and many of those pins and needles I might otherwise have felt were put to rest. She was a lot smarter than I was.

As for baseball, you couldn't go into a pro locker room immediately after a game in the 60's, early 70's (and probably long before that) that wasn't thick with cigarette smoke, and populated by hundreds of empty beer bottles . Take a look now. Times have changed. Change is possible, but effective change comes from interest (team or self) not some government edict. Let us try to have the strength on issues like this to work for what will ultimately succeed, not what is expedient.
IMO it's all about idealism and reality.

In a perfect college world... people don't
drink, cheat, steal, speed, practice unsafe ***, party with a vegence,...

In a real college world many people (not all)choose to do all these things...and they are a part of what college is now. I may not agree with it, in fact may see real harm or risk in it, but it is the reality.

The key IMO is to have raised a young man who understands choices and consequences.

To some extent it is all Moot...If a recruit goes to a party he has a choice... on a recruiting trip can decide for himself what he chooses to do and what he does not. No matter where he is taken, shown or offered. No one is going to make my son do anything. It is his choice and he needs to be raised with personal boundaries.

I figure watching what the other players do and how they handle themselves in such situations tells me a great deal about the priorities and senisibilities of the program. Are these people I want to be around for the next 4 years?
Just my 2 cents worth - I could feel like a lousy mother after reading some of these posts but I don't feel like I've done a bad job raising my sons. I drank at parties while in HS, 30 yrs. ago and have known and allowed my sons to do the same. I guess I'm a realist. I even let kids drink at our house with them knowing they had to spend the night. Alot of the parents of my kids friends felt the same way we do, we'd rather know they're in a safe environment than out driving drunk. I've gotten phone calls in the middle of the night asking me to come and get them and always did. I always told them to call instead of getting behind the wheel and they did listen to me.
Am I going to be naieve and think there won't be any booze in the refrig at school? No. He's living with kids that are 21 and they do drink. Thankfully, I had an open dialogue with my sons as they were growing up about the dangers of drinking, drugs and ***. Sure they experimented. I like that they feel comfortable enough to tell me what went on at a party. It can lead to some very good discussions about the choices they make and how it can affect them in the future. We also were wise enough to never ever leave them home alone for a weekend. We knew whenever somebody's parents were away for the weekend that's where the party would be. I wasn't that naieve. Does my 23 yr. old buy my 20 yr old beer? Yeah he does. Do his friends older siblings do the same thing? Yes they do. I'd rather not bury my head in the sand and think, not my kid. They have friends that choose not to drink and they consider that ok, too. My 23 yr old hardly ever drinks now that he can, hasn't gotten anyone pregnant and doesn't do any drugs so I think we did ok. My 20 yr old will sometimes tell me that so-in-so is probably going to be an alchoholic so they know what's up.
As to the drinking on an official visit, yeah he did drink on all of them at the campus parties. And yes, the coaches knew. Luckily the school he chose does not have parties except Thur. nights so he doesn't have the pressure that goes on at some of the schools. Do I wish he didn't drink? He's 20 so of course I wish he didn't but I also am enough of a realist to know that he does and hope we've done enough talking to at least make him somewhat smart enough to know how to handle it. I don't know if how I raised them is the "right" way but I've done the best I can do and hope they've taken the lessons learned with them for the future. So far they haven't disappointed me or their dad.
PABBMOM

Having parties at your house and letting the kids drink? You are only asking for trouble. Just because they will spend the night(or you think they will) does not get you off the hook. It is illegal. That is the black and white of it. Suppose one falls and gets hurt or has a fight and hurts somebody or drinks so much that he requires medical attention or leaves and drives.
People sometimes trivialize the use of alcohol. I teach Health education in High school. When teaching the alcohol unit the attitude of the kids sometimes is one of yea everybody drinks and gets drunk and some see it as humorous. I do not let that go far. Every year i ask them how many know of somebody a friend etc who was taken to the emergency ward of a hospital for alcohol poisoning. Over half raise their hand. Sobering thought.
Again it comes down to one thing: it's illegal. Look at prisons in our country.
Obviosuly murder and robbery 'Happen' but does it make it right and legal? NO. That's an extreme example but I hope you get my point. This site helps promote being the best baseball player you can become, and the last time I checked, alcohol can't help you hit a curveball.
PAbbMom, I agree that we never know for sure if we've raised our children the "right" way, but
I think you've also had a little luck on your side-jmo.

I do find it curious that your children HEEDED your advice when you told them to call you when they were under the influence of alcohol, but DIDN'T listen to you when they were sober and you told them of the problems of underage drinking.

From what I've been reading on a lot of posts here, maybe I'm in the minority when it comes
to raising kids. YES, YES, YES, We all know drinking, drugs, *** etc. goes on every day across the country-is this the rationale to excuse it? Kids do it, just accept it? Just give
up because you're not going to stop it? A little drinking never hurt anyone? As long as they
call home and tell us they're drunk it's OK?

I'm not here to tell everyone how to raise their children-heaven knows my wife and I have made our share of mistakes and are by no means perfect. I just think we are sending the
wrong message when we just give in because we can't lick it. I know my kids have felt the pressure from schoolmates to drink and probably have as well, but they also know that they
won't get the stamp of approval from Mom and Dad. After all, doesn't someone have to be
the adult?

It's Sunday and I'm through with my sermon-sorry.
quote:
, and the last time I checked, alcohol can't help you hit a curveball.


What has always amazed me is how some parents will spend hundreds of dollars on private instruction, showcases, travel ball, weight training, etc. and then look the other way when it comes to their son's drinking. Drinking isn't going to help baseball performance, it isn't going to help with academics ... and it certainly can lead to heartbreaking incidents. Confused
PA, I applaud your honesty in making your post. To read the thread, one might assume we were all raising little angels with rules and regulations followed down the line. Hmmmm....sounds like a lot of conversations with parents I've had.

Like the ones with parents of a teammate of my son's in hs, who was to his parents, a stellar student, universally loved, unfailingly polite, completely law-abiding, and set to be drafted. And to many of the adults, he was. (see Eddie Haskell) And when he was drag-racing his new Mercedes with three teammates in the car, all under the influence of more than one illegal substance, lost control and put himself through a wall before the car arrived (he wasn't wearing his seatbelt), he remained the perfect son because he was theirs. Most fortunately, he survived the coma with relatively few problems.

It would seem you have a very open and close relationship with your son, and that is a rare gift that you have fashioned. Don't let anyone put you off the highly personal decisions you have made in raising your children.

I've been cursed with a good memory and am well aware of what I was doing at the ages of 18 and 20, my kids' current ages. Of course, they are much too young and inexperienced for some of those things Wink.
pa mom.

Just announced yesterday and today in Illinois....

A mother and her son were arrested for serving liquor at a party at their house where a 16 year old got drunk...left the party; and, drowned when he decided to go for a swim in a pond nearby. Apparently the mother served anyone and everyone. She didn't even know many of the "party" attendees! Wonderful, mom.

I try to do my best as a parent but I can't control my sons and others in their/other environment. I know one mom who smokes joints with her sons and in front of my sons. When I called to complain, she was "indignant" that I would call.

I think any minor should be required to serve 30 days in jail for the first offense of underage drinking; 60 for the second and so on.

They know exactly what they are doing. They know exactly the "buzz" they want. They get "emboldened" by the booze.

Remember when I was a teenager who tried beer once and didn't like it. Used to go to the quarries near Lemont (those of you from CHicagoland would know what I'm talking about)with a 6-pack...didn't have 12 packs or 24 packs at that time. Most of the guys got wasted and wound up laying around under some trees and in the bushes not knowing exactly where they were....and I wound up with their girlfriends for the night.
Last edited by BeenthereIL

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