Drop and drive or tall and fall???

quote:

I think this is true only if you don't start forward until the apex of the knee lift. I try to get my pitchers going forward before the apex of the knee lift so, for me, timing starts with first forward movement.

Not sure if Im understanding you correctly. Reading this kind of sounds like a "rush." Can you elaborate on "timing starts with the first forward movement." The three most debated mechanics in my opinion are hitting, golf, and pitching. I have never heard of any of these mechanics starting their timing off with the first move forward, its always been the first move back (ie..load,kneepump,hitch,koking hands..etc)..I have not read the previous posts, so let me know if I lost something in translation..peace

Texan, I too had a problem following that post because for me, I would prefer a slow deliberate loading in the full windup keeping the center together in the turn with no lead leg, front shoulder, head or landing foot flying away from the center of the rotation as it brings it all forward.

BBscout posted a clip of Tom Seaver throwing from full windup on page two of this thread. Notice how straight his FB was? Wonder why that was? Look how straight up he is in load before acceleration phase. Seaver does have the slow methodical load even though his back is much too straight , for me-JMHO, as usual. Just wonder how much greater and how much longer Seaver's career could have been with the bend peace Shep

After going back and reading the post a second time, I see what you mean as in the stretch. Just woke up and about to take my first sip of coffee. Apologize for the misread, my eyes were half way open when I looked at post the first time.

The stretch delivery is a whole other topic of discussion and I certainly didn't mean to mix the two together. peace Shep

Good morning Deemax.

quote:

Originally posted by Roger Tomas:
I'm not sure you understood but I was endorsing a single set of mechanics.

Sorry. On my first read, I thought you taught use of the slide step.

quote:

I think this is true only if you don't start forward until the apex of the knee lift. I try to get my pitchers going forward before the apex of the knee lift so, for me, timing starts with first forward movement.

You are correct, the statement I made is true only if forward motion doesn't start until the lift leg starts down & out.

quote:

Originally posted by Shepster:
Apologize for the misread, my eyes were half way open when I looked at post the first time.

Done that myself, more than a few times.

quote:

Originally posted by deemax:

quote:

I think this is true only if you don't start forward until the apex of the knee lift. I try to get my pitchers going forward before the apex of the knee lift so, for me, timing starts with first forward movement.

Not sure if Im understanding you correctly. Reading this kind of sounds like a "rush." Can you elaborate on "timing starts with the first forward movement." The three most debated mechanics in my opinion are hitting, golf, and pitching. I have never heard of any of these mechanics starting their timing off with the first move forward, its always been the first move back (ie..load,kneepump,hitch,koking hands..etc)..I have not read the previous posts, so let me know if I lost something in translation..peace

I don't consider it a rush at all. Randy Johnson is a good example of a pitcher who starts his hips forward before his knee reaches the apex. Yet he still maintains a relatively high knee lift. To do this, his front leg needs to be faster going from apex of knee lift to foot plant. That lengthens the stride, creates more momentum, and gets the release point closer to home plate - all good things.

Maybe the source of confusion here is that the word "timing" hasn't been defined. In this discussion, I can see a couple definitions.

"Timing" could refer to the relative timing of the various events in the delivery. In this sense, the relative timing of when the hips start forward versus when the knee reaches the apex is important to me (among other things, of course). Many pitchers do these two events at the same time but I try to get my pitchers to start the hips forward before the knee reaches the apex.

"Timing" might also refer to the time it takes to get to foot plant or release. This would have bearing on a pitcher's ability to hold runners. For me, this means getting into foot strike quicker without shortening the stride as that, as Texan pointed out, would change the relative timing resulting in a second set of mechanics. To me, the only way to do this is to get the hips started early.

When I talk about getting the hips going, I'm talking about a linear shift down the hill - not rotation.

Another term I haven't heard enough to my liking in our pitching threads is "TEMPO". The tempo is so important in body control and balance in the delivery.

Roger Tomas, as usual, you're right on the mark my friend "TIMING" is oh so important, as well. peace shep

quote:

I don't consider it a rush at all. Randy Johnson is a good example of a pitcher who starts his hips forward before his knee reaches the apex. Yet he still maintains a relatively high knee lift. To do this, his front leg needs to be faster going from apex of knee lift to foot plant. That lengthens the stride, creates more momentum, and gets the release point closer to home plate - all good things.

Maybe the source of confusion here is that the word "timing" hasn't been defined. In this discussion, I can see a couple definitions.

"Timing" could refer to the relative timing of the various events in the delivery. In this sense, the relative timing of when the hips start forward versus when the knee reaches the apex is important to me (among other things, of course). Many pitchers do these two events at the same time but I try to get my pitchers to start the hips forward before the knee reaches the apex.

"Timing" might also refer to the time it takes to get to foot plant or release. This would have bearing on a pitcher's ability to hold runners. For me, this means getting into foot strike quicker without shortening the stride as that, as Texan pointed out, would change the relative timing resulting in a second set of mechanics. To me, the only way to do this is to get the hips started early.

When I talk about getting the hips going, I'm talking about a linear shift down the hill - not rotation.

Alright, now I'm pickin up what your puttin down...I teach the same thing, just a different set of terminology...peace

quote:

Originally posted by Shepster:
Another term I haven't heard enough to my liking in our pitching threads is "TEMPO". The tempo is so important in body control and balance in the delivery.

I tend to use "momentum" and "tempo" interchangeably. Is that acceptable or do you think they are different? If different, how?

In my mind those are two different things.

"Tempo" deals with rhythm, keeping everything in synch and fluid.

"Momentum" deals with direction of energy to the plate at the proper time, i.e., peaking at release.

Related but not the same thing.

quote:

Originally posted by deemax:
Alright, now I'm pickin up what your puttin down...I teach the same thing, just a different set of terminology...peace

Roger
I would agree with Midlo Dad about rhythm and fluidity. Momentum would be the result of the combination of the mass of the pitcher and the speed of his movement. A smaller pitcher with the same tempo as a larger one would have less resulting momentum.

quote:

Posted January 28, 2007 06:28 AM Hide Post
Another term I haven't heard enough to my liking in our pitching threads is "TEMPO". The tempo is so important in body control and balance in the delivery.

Roger Tomas, as usual, you're right on the mark my friend Smile "TIMING" is oh so important, as well. peace shep

Completely agree as well!

IMO tempo includes the timing of the first move made through the last move including the amount of time between pitches. Momentum is all the energy going foward and the stored power behind it, which in turn works directly with tempo...not saying this is right or wrong, just what I picture when I hear momentum and tempo...peace

Anaylsis pointed out by several pro vets in the field and during classroom sessions in scout school at Baseball Boardwalk in 1990(Royals Spring Training Site at that time ) and the parks thinking of the body coming forward maintaining a nice tempo as in a golf swing thinking of the forward acceleration of the armspeed as a seperate engine throwing against a flexed and slightly bent landing leg and front foot ball slightly pinched inward toward CENTER. There's that word again. peace Deemax I do see your point and point is well taken and received my brother shep