English 101 at JUCO vs. Elite/High Academic University

 I went to a CA JC and then a state college, I have worked in the accounting profession with CAL, UCLA, UCD, USC, UCSB and Stanford grads for 30 years. It makes 0 difference if you went to a JC to get to those other schools. It makes 0 difference that you are a Stanford or San Francisco State grad.  The school you attend is not a question asked on the CPA exam.  

The business school JC prerequisite courses that transfer to a UC, such as Acct 1a, 1b, Econ 1a 1b, statistics etc. use the exact same books a and cover the same material.  Both the CA JC, UCs and Stanford  are accredited by the same organization. Sure you are more likely to run into students that aren't ready for Acct 1a at a JC then a 4 year school but the only thing that matters is how you as a student approach your class whether its at college of marin or UCB.

My son attended a JC.  Several schools have been mentioned as not having JC transfers on their rosters, I can tell you those schools do recruit at JCs, they just didn't land the player.  A JC player is far more knowledgeable about the programs doing the recruiting then a HS player and his parents.  A JC player  usually looking for an interested coach and a legit opportunity to play at a good school.

Teaching Elder posted:

It is important to remember that there are a number of widely varying academic scenarios out there.  And each one is unique.  For instance, it is possible that it could take a student 10 years to fully get their head on straight, change majors a few times and finally finish up undergrad.  And then go on to spend 11 years in seminary taking 50 separate classes at night while working full-time. 

This is all a hypothetical scenario, of course.  But I am pretty sure that it could happen.

Funny story, about 25 years ago i was getting married. I lived in Austin but had friends spread out from Louisiana to Dallas, so the Metroplex became the hub for the bachelor party. I was calling guys that were good friends as well as others who were friends but we had lost contact. I rang up a guy who i was close to in HS ....i guess we were about 25 at the time and he lived in Dallas. I thought this would be great to see him and we could party together. As i was describing the evening festivities and the establishments we were planning to visit he stopped me. I knew he had gone to school and gotten a finance degree but the part about him being in Seminary school currently was a surprise. He's studied at a state school, in Durham, Oxford and Russia....needless to say he thanked and congratulated me but declined my invitation. He recently completed building his new church and is a parish priest. 

"Several schools have been mentioned as not having JC transfers on their rosters, I can tell you those schools do recruit at JCs, they just didn't land the player.  A JC player is far more knowledgeable about the programs doing the recruiting then a HS player and his parents.  A JC player  usually looking for an interested coach and a legit opportunity to play at a good school"

I get the part about a JC kid wanting a legitimate opportunity to play in his final years, but I don't buy the part about the UC schools not being able to land the JC players they want.  If they are seriously considering a JC player, it is only because they have a specific gap to fill.  And that means the recruit is going to get an opportunity to play.  UCLA and Cal are not going to recruit JCs just to sit on the bench when they have their fill of incoming HS players who can do that.

I know some coaches have a philosophy of not recruiting JC players because they want a player to get in on the ground floor as a Freshman and build with the program.  Perhaps that is the case with some of the UC schools that have few JC players or none.  And as others have noted beyond the UC schools, snobbery or not, some of the really elite academic schools do not take JCs given their rigid academic expectations for players on their teams. 

I see JCs as viable options for any kid considering baseball in the equation.  But it must be said that any kid who is seriously thinking about going to a JC as a springboard to get to a better position than they are currently in as a HS senior needs to research their target schools to see what their current rosters look like in terms of JC transfers.  No matter how much they improve as players and boost their academic case, there are some schools and programs that are simply not going to be an option for them.  A click on the team rosters (many of which even have archives) will tell a kid a lot about the roster make-up.

Every kid has his path, some with good results, some with results that are mixed.  I would tend to agree that in my experience, where a kid starts has little far less impact than where he finishes.  Accounting is not my field.  I would have guessed, in a hiring scenario, that a kid with a CPA who studied at SF State and a CPA with a Stanford background, that the Stanford kid had a better chance of landing the job.  Perhaps in fact school choice makes zero difference whatsoever, at least in that field.  I don't know.

One other thing to consider in school path/choice, is alumni network and career services at a school.  High academic schools generally have very strong career services connections and alumni networks that assist kids not only in their new careers fresh out of school, but often in their careers many years down the road.  Further - if graduate school is part of the potential picture, undergraduate school choice could potentially have an impact.

Shoveit4Ks posted:

Teaching Elder posted:

It is important to remember that there are a number of widely varying academic scenarios out there.  And each one is unique.  For instance, it is possible that it could take a student 10 years to fully get their head on straight, change majors a few times and finally finish up undergrad.  And then go on to spend 11 years in seminary taking 50 separate classes at night while working full-time. 

This is all a hypothetical scenario, of course.  But I am pretty sure that it could happen.

Funny story, about 25 years ago i was getting married. I lived in Austin but had friends spread out from Louisiana to Dallas, so the Metroplex became the hub for the bachelor party. I was calling guys that were good friends as well as others who were friends but we had lost contact. I rang up a guy who i was close to in HS ....i guess we were about 25 at the time and he lived in Dallas. I thought this would be great to see him and we could party together. As i was describing the evening festivities and the establishments we were planning to visit he stopped me. I knew he had gone to school and gotten a finance degree but the part about him being in Seminary school currently was a surprise. He's studied at a state school, in Durham, Oxford and Russia....needless to say he thanked and congratulated me but declined my invitation. He recently completed building his new church and is a parish priest. 

Yes.  Class reunions have always been a blast.  Especially given the things that went before I got saved.  

Guy pointing at me with the beer in that is in his hand:  "Yeah, I remember you funneling a six pack in my back yard before a football game Junior year. Man!   So...what you doing these days?"  

Me:  "Well...I am a Presbyterian minister."  

Other guy: "Oh.  Well.  Uh."  

Me: "Relax.  I didn't say I was baptist."

Ultimately where a person attended college becomes less significant. It becomes more about accomplishment rather than where one attended college. There are two avenues to the end result. One is where doors are opened for you. The other is where the person kicks down the door. There are certain connections that open doors; Ivies, large universities with huge alumni groups, etc.. In my generation having worked for a Big Eight, a Wall Street financial organization or IBM was an ongoing invitation to be recruited for unsolicited job interviews. But I've seen people end up at the top after putting themselves through a JC, Nowhere State and having relentless work ethic.

We talk about grinders and dirtbags in baseball. There are professional equivalents. Even with certain advantages my attitude was I'll outwork you until I'm good enough to outsmart you. I was trained in the business world to analyze every victory and defeat. I never wanted to lose because I didn't work hard enough.

RJM posted:

Ultimately where a person attended college becomes less significant. It becomes more about accomplishment rather than where one attended college. There are two avenues to the end result. One is where doors are opened for you. The other is where the person kicks down the door. There are certain connections that open doors; Ivies, large universities with huge alumni groups, etc.. In my generation having worked for a Big Eight, a Wall Street financial organization or IBM was an ongoing invitation to be recruited for unsolicited job interviews. But I've seen people end up at the top after putting themselves through a JC, Nowhere State and having relentless work ethic.

We talk about grinders and dirtbags in baseball. There are professional equivalents. Even with certain advantages my attitude was I'll outwork you until I'm good enough to outsmart you. I was trained in the business world to analyze every victory and defeat. I never wanted to lose because I didn't work hard enough.

Great Post. 

Nice post RJM. 

One of the benefits of the glut of PhDs looking for jobs is the 'trickle-down' of talent: JuCos and lower-tier colleges are reaping the benefit of some wonderful teachers who might otherwise be at a more selective school. I would check out the bios of any college your student is considering, JuCo or otherwise. You may be pleasantly surprised.