Exit Velo during BP?

Due to the speed of the incoming pitch, exit velocity should be slightly higher.  Not sure what it would really tell you though.  Off a tee it gives you a baseline/metric for improvement. 

My grandson took part in an NCTB Showcase this past weekend and posted 95mph Exit Velocity during BP. After his 1st swing they started videoing him and Tweeted the video. He is only 15 and we were told this velocity was near the best in the nation for Sophomores.

Something I found:

So I Measured my Exit Velocity, NOW WHAT? (Average exit velocity by age)

Now that you know your exit velocity, you can see where you sit among your peers. 

Here’s the breakdown of what is considered an exceptional exit velocity among each age group:

• Ages 8-10:  55-65 mph
• Ages 11-13: 60-70 mph
• Ages 14-15: 75-80 mph
• Ages 15-16 (High School JV): 80 mph aluminum/ 75 mph wood
• Age 16-18 (High School Varsity): 90 mph aluminum/ 85 mph wood
• Collegiate: 95 mph aluminum/ 90 mph wood
• Professional: 100 mph +  wood 

Trust In Him posted:

Something I found:

So I Measured my Exit Velocity, NOW WHAT? (Average exit velocity by age)

 

Now that you know your exit velocity, you can see where you sit among your peers. 

Here’s the breakdown of what is considered an exceptional exit velocity among each age group:

• Ages 8-10:  55-65 mph
• Ages 11-13: 60-70 mph
• Ages 14-15: 75-80 mph
• Ages 15-16 (High School JV): 80 mph aluminum/ 75 mph wood
• Age 16-18 (High School Varsity): 90 mph aluminum/ 85 mph wood
• Collegiate: 95 mph aluminum/ 90 mph wood
• Professional: 100 mph +  wood 

 

Interesting, but this doesn't paint the whole picture. First, who is categorizing these exit velos with the level of play, because there are quite a few guys in the MLB currently who, by this chart, would be somewhere between JV and Varsity ball players. Just saying, this needs context.

Is this average exit velo or maximum exit velo? For many batters, the difference between average and maximum is 20-25 MPH, sometime more. That is a pretty sizeable difference, and no disrespect to anyone on here posting their 15 year old's 95 mph exit velo, but my guess is their average exit velo is probably between 70-75, putting that kid right where he should be for his age.

The thing about exit velos as measured at showcases and in the back yard is that those are what my son calls "daddy hacks." There is little barrel control, form and mechanics go to crap, and the only thing the player is trying to do is put up a big number. Like a carnival game where you hit the hammer and try to ring the bell.

MLB Statcast Leaderboard 2018

Average exit velo on statcast for an MLB player has a much wider range because it's being taken in game against elite pitching. In my experience recording exit velos off a tee, the range is usually 3-5 mph from their max out. Someone who tops at 95 off the tee is sitting in the 89-93 range, 75 mph would be a pop up to the pitcher. The OP asks about bp. It's been studied that 1 mph of pitch velocity equates to .20 added exit velo. So bp exit velos should be about 6 mph harder. From evaluating statcast numbers, the above chart is fairly accurate. Stanton, representing likely the most power in the world, would be about 110 off the tee, while a slap hitter like Billy Hamilton would be around 89. The mean max exit velo is 110, so about 97 off the tee with wood. If you do the math yourself and wonder where I'm getting the numbers from my logic is this; the ball reaches home plate 10mph slower than it leaves the hand, so I subtract that from the pitch velo, then do the .20 method, and finally add 2 mph assuming they change mechanics specifically for the tee readings. This comes out to about 13 mph under the statcast max reading.

To be more specific, I would chart it like this: (I've never seen players more than 2 mph diff with bbcor vs wood)

Average JV 75 Good JV 78 Strong JV 80+

Average V 82 Good V 85 Strong V 87+

Average D1 90 Good 93 Strong 95+

Average MLB 97 Good 100 Strong 102+

I'll just say it to save someone the time from typing it; baseball is not the Olympics, measurables are not the be all end all. Also, a 95ev is great, but if you can't run, you're a permanent 1B, and if you have a noodle arm, it also narrows your positions. Be well rounded. All that being said, Peach, that's exciting for your grandson, I'm sure you're very proud and I wish him all the best in his hopefully long career!

2019OF posted:

Average exit velo on statcast for an MLB player has a much wider range because it's being taken in game against elite pitching. In my experience recording exit velos off a tee, the range is usually 3-5 mph from their max out. Someone who tops at 95 off the tee is sitting in the 89-93 range, 75 mph would be a pop up to the pitcher. The OP asks about bp. It's been studied that 1 mph of pitch velocity equates to .20 added exit velo. So bp exit velos should be about 6 mph harder. From evaluating statcast numbers, the above chart is fairly accurate. Stanton, representing likely the most power in the world, would be about 110 off the tee, while a slap hitter like Billy Hamilton would be around 89. The mean max exit velo is 110, so about 97 off the tee with wood. If you do the math yourself and wonder where I'm getting the numbers from my logic is this; the ball reaches home plate 10mph slower than it leaves the hand, so I subtract that from the pitch velo, then do the .20 method, and finally add 2 mph assuming they change mechanics specifically for the tee readings. This comes out to about 13 mph under the statcast max reading.

To be more specific, I would chart it like this: (I've never seen players more than 2 mph diff with bbcor vs wood)

Average JV 75 Good JV 78 Strong JV 80+

Average V 82 Good V 85 Strong V 87+

Average D1 90 Good 93 Strong 95+

Average MLB 97 Good 100 Strong 102+

I'll just say it to save someone the time from typing it; baseball is not the Olympics, measurables are not the be all end all. Also, a 95ev is great, but if you can't run, you're a permanent 1B, and if you have a noodle arm, it also narrows your positions. Be well rounded. All that being said, Peach, that's exciting for your grandson, I'm sure you're very proud and I wish him all the best in his hopefully long career!

So, instead of using the available data from statcast, which is pretty much the gold standard, we should speculate? My point is this: sure, all of these players are capable of generating exit velos off a tee in an artificial setting with no real variables. But a pitched baseball is the biggest variable of them all, and the average exit velo for these players tells me that it really doesn’t matter what is measured off the tee, because on average you aren’t going to produce that during a game. 

The stat cast average ev is irrelevant because peaches grandson isn't facing 90mph sliders. 15u pitching has far less variables, and thus the average exit velo will be much closer to max. No matter what stat cast measurement your sort by, there is almost no correlation with top players. Guys who hit 35 home runs have ev 10 points lower than AAAA players. You might not have read my post; I refer to stat cast data several times. I simply deduced ev off a tee by subtracting the help of the pitch from the max reading on stat cast. You also make a key miscalculation in saying the average ev is 20 mph below their max. The ball is going to add 13ish ev, so a 110 on stat cast is a 97 on a tee, meaning an average of 90 is only 7 mph, not 20+ below their best. If exit velo from a tee didn't matter to someone, then no one would measure it. It's like the vertical jump in football, raw power output.

2019OF posted:

The stat cast average ev is irrelevant because peaches grandson isn't facing 90mph sliders. 15u pitching has far less variables, and thus the average exit velo will be much closer to max. No matter what stat cast measurement your sort by, there is almost no correlation with top players. Guys who hit 35 home runs have ev 10 points lower than AAAA players. You might not have read my post; I refer to stat cast data several times. I simply deduced ev off a tee by subtracting the help of the pitch from the max reading on stat cast. You also make a key miscalculation in saying the average ev is 20 mph below their max. The ball is going to add 13ish ev, so a 110 on stat cast is a 97 on a tee, meaning an average of 90 is only 7 mph, not 20+ below their best. If exit velo from a tee didn't matter to someone, then no one would measure it. It's like the vertical jump in football, raw power output.

My point is it doesn't matter how you measure exit velocity, and it doesn't matter whether the players are MLB. You are choosing to ignore the trend based on the level the trend is measured at. I think the trend is probably true at any level. The facts are that the players are facing typically similarly talented competition. 15U players face 15U pitching, MLB caliber players face MLB caliber pitching. 15U hitters have 15U experience and strength...MLB players have...well..you know.

Sso to say that the difference in average exit velo versus maximum is more because they are facing better pitchers doesn't wash with me. Why would you deduce an exit velocity when it doesn't matter what it is off a tee? If it was something that mattered maybe MLB would produce those numbers. But what matters is what you do in a game, during live pitching...last time I checked we stopped hitting off a tee in a game at age 5.

Once again, this goes to the argument that metrics aren't everything.

PG PBR and any college camp all measure it. The pools of talent MLB scouts look at have already been weeded out from those with weak measurables. Figuring out ev from a tee is useful as a comparison tool, and a progression stat. Gained 5 ev in a year? Studies say you can hit the ball 25 feet further, and those grounders in the hole might get through. Good luck finding me a player at a P5 with below an 88 ev from a tee.

average or maximum? In game or off a tee? This is why scouts and coaches watch players play in games before offering or signing them.

I am sure as the tech becomes more affordable and easily deployable, we will see it part of the recruitment game like the radar gun