Expectations: HS Team vs Travel Team

During the HS season the HS team has priority for all scheduling. It’s easy in FL as travel shuts down during the HS season.

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

During the HS season the HS team has priority for all scheduling. It’s easy in FL as travel shuts down during the HS season.

Thanks TerribleBPThrower. I agree that during the HS season the HS team takes priority.  I think it’s also clear that during the summer the travel ball team takes priority.

Some high school programs have a “fall ball” or “winter ball” program from November to March.  That’s where things get a little murky.

@knownothingdad posted:

Thanks TerribleBPThrower. I agree that during the HS season the HS team takes priority.  I think it’s also clear that during the summer the travel ball team takes priority.

Some high school programs have a “fall ball” or “winter ball” program from November to March.  That’s where things get a little murky.

When it's murky, communicate.  The vast majority of coaches want what is best for the player, now and in the future, as long as the player stays true to his team commitment otherwise.  If there are events that are directly relevant to immediate recruiting opportunities and communication occurs with appropriate advanced notice, there are usually amicable work-arounds. 

@knownothingdad posted:

Thanks TerribleBPThrower. I agree that during the HS season the HS team takes priority.  I think it’s also clear that during the summer the travel ball team takes priority.

Some high school programs have a “fall ball” or “winter ball” program from November to March.  That’s where things get a little murky.

Oh, yes, there definitely are conflicts there. For me it comes down to; how good is the HS team and their fall program, where does your kid stand with the team (fighting for a spot or a major contributor), and lastly what is going to benefit your son the most.

The local public HS tried to demand their players not participate in fall travel. Funny thing happened, the studs played travel and when the HS season came they still played even though the coaches said they wouldn’t.

What year is your son and how serious is he about playing at the college level? Was there any type of written or unwritten rule with your high school coach about off season practices? In theory, I completely agree that HS season is all about HS and offseason is all about travel and that communication with the coaches (and even better between the coaches) is key when there is a conflict. However, that assumes that both sets of coaches have your child's best interests at heart and not the interests of their program. We got caught at the intersection of the two...with one coach more concerned about his program than the kids...and the results were pretty awful. Some coaches do not quite realize how the recruiting landscape has changed (or they realize it but don't care). I would be happy to talk more via DM.

Is your kid on the bubble player on both teams? Usually it is not an issue for prospects, but if he is on the fringe then the kid needs to decide what takes precedent. If he is serious about getting better than the travel seems to be better option and if it is a reputable program, it will make the college connection for him.

High school ball takes priority during its season. The only possible overlap would be at the end of the high school season and the beginning of travel. High school should take priority. The travel coach should respect the end of the high school season. But communicate with the travel coach.

My son played high school soccer and travel fall ball. Soccer always took priority. It was the sport in season.  But once again, communicate with the travel coach.

The high school had a fall ball team. Established players weren’t expected to participate unless they wanted. The team was more about prospects moving up. Established players played travel fall ball. I believe my son clinched his starting position soph year playing fall ball for the high school team. It made spring tryouts a formality.

The baseball program also had winter workouts after school and twice a week at 6am. Players weren’t required to attend. But they were warned they better show up for the first day of tryouts/practice in opening day playing shape.

We live in a small state where all the baseball people know each other. Son worked with a private coach who had coached his HS coach and had respect from travel coaches. At one point a Little League coach said "he needs to do x, y, z" I politely responded with — he works with Joe Smith. I'll have him talk to him about it. Never heard anything else.

Communication is key but the hardest part (particularly for a HS kid) is knowing what you want and need to work on and being able to share your perspectives respectfully and getting the coaches to buy in.

If you live in Southern California you probably see that HS coaches are becoming more aggressive at trying to keep their teams intact during the summer, fall and winter.  There are big fees involved in off-season ball.  Some coaches demand their kids attend all off-season games and practices and troll PG and PBR and call out kids that show up in tweets, even if there wasn't a conflict.  But the fact remains that most college coaches aren't going to HS games, so if you want to get recruited you have to go where the coaches are.  More than likely you'll have to be honest with the HS coach and tell him you'll be in AZ or GA or where ever and take your lumps if he wants to hold it against you.

Thanks everyone. Most of the advice so far seems to be geared toward a player who is trying to make his high school and travel teams and eventually get recruited. In that scenario, it sounds like a player should probably favor his travel team to increase his recruiting odds.

Would that advice change for a junior who has secured a spot on both teams and has verbally committed?

The player should honor his high school team in the spring. I wouldn’t want a college coach to call the high school coach to be told my kid walked out on the team when travel started. I’ve never heard of a summer travel coach not respecting the spring post season isn’t over. Once a kid establishes he’s a college prospect then there’s room for discussion with the high school coach regarding summer and the fall.

I’m catching a whiff of something you need to be careful about. Don’t be a travel snob. If you want to be disliked at high school games talk a lot about your kid and travel ball.

When a kid has established himself and committed discuss the situation with the high school coach if there’s off season time conflicts. Most coaches want their players to succeed beyond playing for them.

My son played for a travel coach and took hitting instructions from a guy the high school coach detested and vice versa. It didn’t get in the way.

Honest question back - if he is already committed, why would he not be able to be the leader his HS team most likely needs him to be?  Surely there is plenty of time around even the "extra" HS season to be involved in continued competitive travel org play.

Even then, as a HS coach, I would welcome, encourage, allow those top players to participate with their travel orgs during our summer season if that was their preference.  It usually worked out best for all involved - gave others in the HS program more opportunity to show themselves and gave the top players continued play against top level competition.  I say this with the caveat that numbers can often be an issue for some programs.

FWIW, we have had many players come through our HS program and go on to successful college (and beyond) careers.  VERY few have not made every effort to be leaders by being there for their HS teammates whenever possible and, in fact, tended to be the ones leading out with extra or voluntary small group practices.  Again, communication and advanced planning were always key to manage specific travel org events.  That combined with the above-and-beyond commitment and leadership with the HS program went a long way toward alleviating any conflict.

When my son started HS, we joked that school was "that building attached to the baseball field."  It was his dream come true that he could just run out to practice baseball after school, didn't need a parent to drive him (it got even better when he could drive).  Coach made the field and cages available to those who wanted extra work.  My son attended all the "optional" fall, winter, and summer workouts, because it meant more baseball.  The HS provided far more opportunities for him to work at baseball than the travel team did, basically for free.

In HS (at least in our area) the coach played the best 9, but most of the best 9 worked harder than everyone else, attended all "optional" off-season workouts, AND played on travel teams.  Exception were the multi-sport athletes.  Sure, if you are a super-stud, you can probably skip all HS practices and still play.  Do you want to be that kid?  Will it make for a good experience at team practices or at school?  I'd hope that you want to make baseball a good experience as well as a cut-throat quest for a D1 scholarship.

What would "favor the travel team" mean?  Our travel teams can't do any activities during the official spring HS season, but I can't remember ever having a conflict at any other time of year, either.  Our HS coach encouraged players to play high-level travel if they wanted, and provided practice opportunities if they didn't.  Travel coaches were enthusiastic about their kids' HS successes.

It's almost always said here that one thing a parent should never do is talk to the HS coach about anything other than the player's health, and that every other conversation should be left to the kid.  We didn't get that advice until too late; so we met with the HS coach, at the start of fall of freshman year, to discuss things like choosing a travel team.  We were not adversarial, we were clueless; we came away reassured that the coach supported travel, and the goal of playing in college.

If you are a super-stud, early D1 commit, the travel team will let you do whatever you want.  They want to be able to advertise your success.  

How does your HS coach feel about multi-sport athletes during the fall/winter ball season? BTW, is this a real sitch for your kid or is it a Francis7 "role-playing" fantasy to keep the thread "craic" going? 

@knownothingdad posted:

Baseball is a game with its fair share of unwritten rules (don’t swing on 3-0 with a big lead, place your bat gently on the ground and run fast after a home run, don’t celebrate too much after striking someone out, etc.), and it can be difficult for a parent who didn’t play much past little league to help his son navigate the baseball world.  So, hsbaseballweb, I come to you for advice.

Where should a player’s loyalty lie if there is a conflict between the HS coach and travel coach when it comes to practice scheduling, coaching advice, training programs, or anything else?

Argument A: travel ball coaches are better qualified and better connected.  Their advice is better, college coaches respect their opinions the most, and they have the most power over the player’s destiny. Travel ball coaches take priority.

Argument B:  high school coaches are quasi-volunteers with no profit motive who only have the player’s pure best interest at heart.  The high school’s team-oriented atmosphere is the closest analogy for preparing to be on a college team. The travel ball coach is just a hired gun to get some instruction and game in the off-season. High school coaches take priority.

What does everyone think?

Foxson's HS coach strongly discouraged participation with any other team during the spring season.  He wanted complete commitment.     At any rate, there really wasn't any time to do so.   Foxson had classes from 7 am to 2:30 pm, then practice from 3 pm - 6 pm on non-game nights.  If there was a game, it was from 7 pm - ???   Foxson also worked a part-time job and then had homework.  While the HS coach didn't always have practice on Saturday, many of team members spent their off time at the batting cage on Saturday.  Again, he also had to work his part-time job.

I guess he could have participated with his local travel team, however the travel team coach's son was on the HS team as well.   He respected the HS coach and did not try to have the team participate in tournaments during the HS season.

Early in my son's baseball "career" he was on a LL team and a travel team.  We were at a baseball field 6-7 days a week for practice or a game.   Fortunately, it was only from April to the end of June.   After that it was the travel team only for the rest of the year.  That was the last year he did both.

For baseball, my son's travel baseball org hits the pause button while the HS baseball is in season (to let HS ball be the focus for ~8 wks and to reduce the risk of throwing arm over use injuries).

We have come to appreciate, that our HS baseball coach (a new hire last fall) organizes workouts throughout the winter (semi-mandatory attendance expectations) , while my son is already scheduled to either play basketball or attend his travel/private baseball winter training sessions.  We juggle and occasionally disappoint someone ... open proactive communications are the key.

With all sports effectively year round ... the real conflict is with trying to juggle HS basketball Dec-Mar (and then AAU basketball Mar-May), with baseball (Jan-Oct).   The day my kid gets his driving license can't come soon enough.

@2022NYC posted:

How does your HS coach feel about multi-sport athletes during the fall/winter ball season? BTW, is this a real sitch for your kid or is it a Francis7 "role-playing" fantasy to keep the thread "craic" going?

Real situation.  Travel ball coach pressured him to pitch in Dec/Jan/Feb, but he chose to rest the arm and ramp back up with his high school team for the season. High school team is giving more practice opportunities, much-needed camaraderie during covid, and the opportunity to be a team leader. Things got negative with travel ball coach, so I’m trying to figure out if my son broke some unwritten rule.

During hs season, it's hs ball.  Part of this is being a good teammate.  Your son did nothing wrong.  In my opinion, that is arm health.  Most pitchers shut down November-January and start ramping for a February or March start.

"We juggle and occasionally disappoint someone ... open proactive communications are the key.", @mjd-dad

Agree 100%.  Just be honest.

TB coach pressuring him to pitch in the off-season??? Sounds little off to me, need more context to give real advise. 

I suspect the answer is going to be regional.   What applies to SoCal isn't going to necessarily apply to Virginia.   I don't necessarily look at it as a loyalty question but more of a communication question.  The travel coach should know that his high school experience is very important and a way to get more reps and possibly practice new things.  The best high school coaches in our area are tremendous resources that I don't think enough people leverage.  They know the travel coaches, local college coaches, and some of them are travel coaches.   Anything the high school coach can do to provide exposure and connections is icing on the cake.   It is up to you and your son to set those expectations, don't wait to hear it from either coach.

Oct->mid-Dec shutdown.  All three of my kids were not throwing baseballs.  They were working out, and doing "Open Gyms" that were run by the high school upper classmen.

mid-Dec->April was high school baseball focus with some semi-private pitching lessons thrown in there.  I had 3 kids play high school and travel baseball and there were no coaching conflicts, ever.

April->Oct - Travel baseball. Two baseball seasons; spring/summer and fall.   

Good luck!

@knownothingdad posted:

Real situation.  Travel ball coach pressured him to pitch in Dec/Jan/Feb, but he chose to rest the arm and ramp back up with his high school team for the season. High school team is giving more practice opportunities, much-needed camaraderie during covid, and the opportunity to be a team leader. Things got negative with travel ball coach, so I’m trying to figure out if my son broke some unwritten rule.

More and more travel orgs are trying to squeeze in those MLK tournaments now and some even in early February. My son's HS team had a few kids play MLK weekend and miss the first practice. They are D1 commits. Their travel coach limited them to 50 pitches so there wasn't a huge injury risk.

I suppose if a really strong travel program wanted my son to play we'd consider it during Dec/Jan/Feb, but doing so he would miss several workouts, pitching/hitting/catching lessons, and probably most importantly some down time from games and travel.

@knownothingdad posted:

Real situation.  Travel ball coach pressured him to pitch in Dec/Jan/Feb, but he chose to rest the arm and ramp back up with his high school team for the season. High school team is giving more practice opportunities, much-needed camaraderie during covid, and the opportunity to be a team leader. Things got negative with travel ball coach, so I’m trying to figure out if my son broke some unwritten rule.

More questions...  Why on earth would a travel coach "pressure" a committed P to pitch?  The primary purpose of travel ball at that age is to provide a vehicle for recruiting.  Yes, there are other purposes but...  agree w/ ReluctantO's - sounds off and we need more context.  Are we talking light pressure/coaxing or actual pressure?  Has travel coach/org been fully supportive and involved in his recruiting efforts?  Understanding of HS committment?  In tune to what is best for his arm from a rest period and ramp up standpoint?

@2022NYC posted:

How does your HS coach feel about multi-sport athletes during the fall/winter ball season? BTW, is this a real sitch for your kid or is it a Francis7 "role-playing" fantasy to keep the thread "craic" going?

If Florida was carpeted how long would it take to vacuum it?

My son has great memories with both HS and travels teams during his HS years. He deferred to his HS coach and tried to win a few state championships. Summer ball allowed him begin being recruited. I’ve heard about the coach (either HS or travel) who has his own rules and it’s my way or the highway...I feel bad for kids in that spot. You should be able to do both.

He played with friends  from middle school on his HS team and met new friends while on travel over the years. When he comes home, he usually connects with HS friends first along with college/travel  friends to throw or go to Buckhead. I guess he had the best of both worlds.

All coaches in my son’s travel org are HS coaches here in FL. They are all busy tying to win district, regional, state titles until HS playoffs are over.  

At son's high school in Texas, the High School coach sets the expectations during the HS season. No outside coaching. No outside games. If approached, he would make exceptions for camp type campus visits, etc.

Communication and coordination is key.

HS is HS and no Travel Ball, period. Spring Only. Summer/Fall is Travel Ball, No HS imposed restrictions or activity outside of the class if single sport, or not even an option for Football/Basketball. If pitcher,  you had to communicate with HS coach about throwing during the week and what travel events we had on the books during the fall (class workouts, etc). Just make sure everyone is aware and on the same page and not over tax the arm during the week. 

I do see the "money" sharks in the water with early season events and showcases, but HS season is hands off for Travel ball, unless worked out with HS coach beforehand. I know there are some World Showcases or other money makers like MLK tourneys, or Pitcher/Catcher showcase in Iowa in March, but those interfere with rest and/or ramp up for or in season play for HS season, so they have always been a no go.  No Travel events until May, after Districts, etc.

HS, in general, also tried to limit outside lessons or workouts, which I understand, but with proper communication and line of sight, everyone can play nicely. My son has used the same Pitching Coach and HIT facility (speed/strength) for years, played elite national level travel ball since early on and that is what got him the reps, experience, exposure and competition to make it to the level of play when he showed up on campus as a Freshman.  We did not stop those lessons or workouts but coordinated those with HS Coach (even invited him to pitching lessons in Fall) to see and participate, and be informed. Even added him to Gamechanger of Travel Team for awareness and activity.  Son also asked for permission in the fall to attend the HIT workouts instead of off-season class, after school or later workouts. We also coordinated with the 1 PC on rest, load, and availability throughout the on and off seasons, HS or Travel events, usage, and schedule.

Different strokes for different folks and in different regions. Your results or focus and priority may differ, but HS is a time for my son to play with his friends (as most or many don't and haven't play regular or elite travel), represent his school and community with pride and get good reps to get/stay in shape and healthy for and to ramp for Summer/Fall, Travel ball and events. etc.

If HS would have been overbearing or too restrictive in the off-seasons, he said he would have passed and focused on Travel Ball only. But we had good relationship with the Varsity Coach from Freshman year onward and it worked and it continues to work out for everyone.

In MN schools aren't allowed to hold official practices or tryouts till mid/late March.  Partly for academic reasons, partly so multi sport athletes can play their sports. An off season workout program is suggested, though. Season runs from April-late May/early June, depending on how far you go in State. Travel is after that, in the fall....you can go near year round if you want, but very few travel programs run in April and May, and if they do, it's in an extremely limited fashion.

   Oh, and if you skip even one HS practice for a travel ball activity you're dog meat.

My kids are past playing. But I never heard of a player missing travel practice because his high school team had it's season extended into the post season and having it be an issue. All my kids got from the travel coach was best wishes.

I want to point out that in many states, this year will be a lot different.  For example, in the State of Illinois, the latest plan is for HS baseball/softball to start April 5.  That is a month later than normal.  The season is to go into June.  Most teams are finished in Illinois in mid-May in a typical year.  Both HS and TB coaches will need to work together this time.   The players can not be torn between the two in a time when they have been affected so much by things that they can not control.

@CoachB25 posted:

I want to point out that in many states, this year will be a lot different.  For example, in the State of Illinois, the latest plan is for HS baseball/softball to start April 5.  That is a month later than normal.  The season is to go into June.  Most teams are finished in Illinois in mid-May in a typical year.  Both HS and TB coaches will need to work together this time.   The players can not be torn between the two in a time when they have been affected so much by things that they can not control.

Pretty much the same for Virginia.  In a normal year tryouts are in mid-February with the season (20 games) beginning in early March and running through June.   This year tryouts are early April with the season (abbreviated - probably only 12-15 games) beginning in mid-April through June.  I think regional playoffs are scheduled for late June.

If your kid had or has to choose between travel and high school, which would they choose?  I think this year will make some guys make that choice as the states have pushed back the start of high school season and many of the big travel ball events are in June.  This has come up before but I wonder how many guys would choose travel over high school.

We made the choice in middle school ball and our whole team except one player chose travel over school ball.  I think the players on the top level teams would choose travel over school ball if the choice ever had to be made.  Players and knowledgeable parents know that you do not get scholarships from high school ball very rarely.  I do not think this would be the case in the spring because most colleges can't come watch but if high school creeped into summer or fall, I think the top players especially would choose travel.  If my sons high school coach had told him it is either travel or high school he would have chose travel in a heartbeat.

Did you have middle school ball or travel ball in middle school age.

I saw some emails around here offering that up to get local kids together to play and think it is great option for local area schools to start to develop a pipeline and feeder to the High school.  However we have other local, non-travel ball, local regional/state travel, and local/state elite state/national travel ball programs in the area that would grab the better players.

I do think it is great to have a variety of programs offered and available and given all the money people spend on equipment and how fast these kids grow, it makes it super easy to do equipment drives for programs like RBI and others and really help give the kids a chance and equipment to play.  Getting stuff 2nd hand at Play It Again Sports is super easy too and way more affordable than paying list.

Tennessee has an official middle school league run by the High School League.  The big thing for us was the middle school team, which my older son and I coached, only played 12 games and the travel team played about 30 games in the same time frame plus the level of play was not even close.  it made it tough because we would have gone undefeated if we had played middle school but it was not the best thing for my youngest son.  I think it is the same if my sons had had to choose between high school and travel in the summer or fall.  The level of play would not be close and the ability to be seen would not have been close.  But my sons were on top teams in the nation.  I think high school ball has a place but I don't think it is to get kids seen.  it is to represent the school and community and build relationships.