FC or Hit

I think it is scored correctly. If there would not have been a play at 1B then it is a hit. Only other option is possibly an error on the SS but based upon your recap of the play, that does not seem to be the case.

+1

Absolutely no error on ss, just a second or two of confusion by the SS and runner as neither knew were the ball was (ball was right next to the ss feet).

I had the same question a few weeks ago while scoring a game.  I referred to baseballreference.com. 

 

"A fielder's choice is a play in which an infielder attempts to make a play at a base other than first base on a ground ball. When scoring a game, a fielder's choice is indicated as FC.

The play is scored as a fielder's choice whether the attempted play is successful or not, so not all fielder's choices result in an out. An unsuccessful attempt to put out a preceeding runner is only scored a fielder's choice if the official scorer thinks that the fielder had a chance to retire the batter; if he tried for a preceeding runner because he couldn't get the batter, the play is scored a hit.

In scoring, FC is also used to account for various other ways in which a runner can advance. The most common use is when a runner advances an extra base on a throw from the outfield, e.g. when a batter who has just doubled advances to third on an attempt to retire the runner from first at the plate. It is also used to account for bases gained on fielder's indifference."

Thanks for the reply's.  My only issue with baseballreference.com is that it was a "successful" attempt to get the preceeding runner out.   But it was not a bang bang play, it was just a goofy slow developing out.  Plus the hitter was my kid and I don't want to be accused of playing favorites.  Head coach said hit after the game but initially said FC during the game.

       
       
That description though is not entirely correct.  Example being Pop fly, runner goes half way.  Batter runner already at first when ball drops in.  Outfielder picks it up and throws to 2nd forcing runner.  FC whether he had a shot at the batter runner or not.  This particular play is hard to comment on without seeing it.  I think it comes down to making a judgement of did the runner just hesitate an instant (FC) or did he truly wait for the play to develop and upon seeing the ball squirt away takes off for third (hit).

I have to disagree with this statement.  FC vs a Hit is not an absolute.  Also, a FC is an infield play.  The Fly ball to the OF would not be an FC.   Hopefully Stats will chime in. 

It's a FC.

 

The hit/FC decision doesn't always align with our sense of fairness.

 

You frequently see this issue with a runner on first on balls that would be infield hits if there were no runners on base. These apparent hits become FCs when an infielder regains his footing after a diving stop and makes a desperate, unsuccessful attempt to force the runner on second.  The futile attempt takes away a hit.  Doesn't seem fair, but that's how it's scored.

 

In this case, the runner may have made a poor decision and it may not seem fair to "punish" the batter, but the scoring rules are clear.

 

The SS fielded a ground ball and attempted a play at another base. That's all the information you need to call it a fielder's choice.  It doesn't matter if the attempt was successful. It doesn't matter where the batter runner was when the play was made. It doesn't matter if the SS hesitated or changed his mind.

 

I've always ruled the outfield ball that results in a force out on the bases  as a FC.  Not fair to the hitter but only way I see to rule it.

       
       
It is not an absolute in the case described bu original poster.  It is a absolute in scenario I mentioned.  Another example, a batter with lightning speed.  Men on 1st and 2nd.  Ball hit to the hole.  SS backhands and throws to third to force runner.  All agree there is absolutely no chance batter would have been out.  Still a FC.  Bases loaded, swinging bunt.  Slow runner on third fast runner at the plate third baseman charges and throws to the plate for the force.  FC regardless of no chance they could have gotten batter.  Bottom line even if the scorer may technically have the option of scoring some of these hits they won't.   That would open a can of worms.  Don't know what the official scoring rules are now for a pitching win but I know there was a time a scorer could award the win to any pitcher he wanted as the five inning thing was just a guideline.  But of course nobody did.  So sometimes its a matter of separating technicalities from reality.

Swampboy your going to think I'm an easy scorer but I've always indicated FC on an out or what should have been an out.  And than use judgement if the play on the runner does not result in an out.  Example hard hit ball at SS with runner on 1st moving on the pitch ss makes play to 2nd and runner is safe, I've always scored FC.  Ball in hole to ss and only play is to try for the force at 3rd but runner is safe I've always ruled hit.  I believe I'm following the rules reference by 2020dad.

A fly ball/pop up with runner forced at any base is a FC.

 

Like the original poster, I picture this as two plays within the same play. It is a judgment call, IMO. In my mind, it boils down to "did he have a chance to get the batter out" in this situation. If the 2b runner was lazy wandering back to the bag and the SS threw to 2nd and runner was tagged out, it still would be a hit.  It hinges on the fact that the SS did not have a play on the batter and wouldn't have even if the 2B runner had stayed on the bag.

As a pitcher's dad, I think you're a HARD scorer.  Pitcher induces a ground ball that turns a runner on second with one out situation into a runner on first with two outs situation--and you're charging him with a hit?

Redfish said it best, that this was two plays within one.  It is absolutely a FC if the runner takes off on contact and is tagged out on 3rd.  My dilemma came into play when the runner froze for a second and tried to read the play and the ss did a half circle trying to find the ball.  The runner decided to try to advance while the ss did not have the ball.  My determining factor was the delay in the runner trying to advance and that the play took so long that the hitter actually saw the tag out after reaching 1st base.

Lol Swampboy, my kid hasn't pitched since his freshman year.  Hitters dad!

Swampboy hopefully I keep some of the pitchers happy because I am a harsh error ruler (per other parents at least).  I rule an error on any ball hit at an infielder that should be an out, even if the ball is smoked.  I assume that routine and ordinary plays are for good players that they should be able to get in position to make the out.

       
       
High school?  I agree anything 13u and above should be ruled an error if its hit right at them I don't care how hard.

Agreed, but there are exceptions most rules.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmXOZtNjOew

 

On the OP's play, sounds like the scoring in the OP is correct.  But if the runner was being forced, it's a FC for sure.

Originally Posted by Baseball stats:

Runner on 2nd, ball hit deep in the hole between 3rd and SS.  Runner on 2nd has normal lead and does not initially advance as he reads the play.  Ss dives and gets a glove on the ball, ball ends up near ss.  Runner on 2nd thinks the ball is trough and no one is covering 3rd.  He attempts to advance.  Hitter is at or near first base when runner on 2nd starts to advances. Runner is tagged out by the shortstop near 3rd base.  I ruled a hit and then an out on runner trying to advance.  I saw it as two separate plays.  Partial reasoning was the hitter was actual rounding 1st base and saw the tag out at third.  Am I wrong, should this be scored FC?

 

Forget everything else for a second and concentrate on the BIP. “Typically”, when I see a fielder have to dive or run a long way and not field the ball cleanly, if the batter reaches 1^st safely he’s gonna get credit for a hit. In the above description it sure sounds as though the batter’s gonna get a hit in my book. Now look at the runner and you have a PO for F6 unassisted.

 

This is a pretty good example of why I prefer scoring using “Project Scoresheet” than the standard scoring method everyone’s used to. Using that method of scoring, each at bat has 3 parts. What takes place before the play, the actual play on the batter, and anything that took place because of or after the play.

 

In my scoring program, here’s what would happen. There are only 2 choices on every BIP. Either the batter was put out or he reached. In this case he reached, so how he reached has to be determined. In this case I’d choose “Infield Hit”, choose where it was fielded as a G56, choose who fielded it as the F6, player ID# 608. That’s the play. Now for the “Afterplay” part. Runner with Player ID# 212 who was the 1^st batter, is put out going from 2^nd to 3^rd by the F6 Player ID# 608 on the 6^th pitch of that at bat.

 

It would look like the attachment.

 

Page 1 is the scoresheet, page 2 is the defense’s numbers, page 3 is the hitter’s numbers, and page 4 is the pitcher’s numbers, page 5 is what the program shows after the play.

 

As you can see, the 1^st batter draws a walk. When the 2^nd batter is up, the runner steals 2^nd on the 2^nd pitch.  Then, on the play for the 2^nd batter, he reaches on an infield hit between short and 3^rd fielded by the F6. After the play, the runner on 2^nd gets put out at 3^rd by the F6.

 

I used to think of these things as 2 separate plays too. The only difference now is, I see it as different parts of the same at bat, and it sure seems easier for me.