Feb 22nd

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AS reported ealier...if you need another reason to go to JC...already got 4 games in...wins? Losses? At this point who cares, it's all baseball, and it's right now...baby!

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My opinion. Some schools even with the uniform start date get a chance to play 20+ before they play their conference schedule.

Schools in the larger and tougher conferences start playing after a few games before the coach has defined team roles.

I am not sure if that was the point of changing to a uniform start date or not.

I saw a coach interview yesterday where he stated that pitchers who would normally have lesser roles now become real important as 8th, 9th, 10th guys will be needed for starting roles.

In the end, the teams with more arms waiting in the wings will prevail and the ones with less on their roster will work them to the max. JMO.

quote:

Originally posted by observer44:
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At this point who cares, it's all baseball, and it's right now...baby!

44
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Lucky for you guys 44...playing baseball now.

It was -4°F here this morning. We're still working on opening the base paths...it's coming along, but baseball is a ways off yet.




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Woodman...I'd tell the guy with all that chalk to lighten up a bit...

44
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Oh not to worry 44...we buy it by the boatload...and get a great deal on it!

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TPM...

That's also the way I see it....other than I still am predicting a great deal moe two way guys as those arms "wear"...or worse yet break.

Gonna be a place in the future for iron armed two ways who can "burn" innings regardless of top velocity...

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quote:

Schools in the larger and tougher conferences start playing after a few games before the coach has defined team roles.

Here comes the "class" issues again. Where do we line up to start bowing and kissing the rings of the Powers of the world. Can I go first? My God, how insulting. I guess the "lesser" teams of the world do not have to develop their "defined team roles" .

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My problem with that many games compressed into such a short period of time is.... when are these kids supposed to go to school? Now I know some kids are coasting through on a lighter schedule and school is a secondary objective here, but cadKID#2 has 21 credits (including Physics, Calc, and advanced language), and has no choice in saying otherwise...

I'm busy watching JUCO as well...

cadDAD

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quote:

Originally posted by rz1:

quote:

Schools in the larger and tougher conferences start playing after a few games before the coach has defined team roles.

Here comes the"class" issues again. Where do we line up to start bowing and kissing the rings of the Powers of the world. Can I go first? My God, how insulting. I guess the "lessers" teams of the world do not have to develop their "defined team roles .

rz,
Knock it off, it wasn't meant to insult anyone. All coaches work to define team roles when playing time begins, some schools have more time than others to do that. I remember a very experienced coach saying it takes him 25 games to figure out what direction they were going. How about at least starting practice in January? All teams now have less than 3 weeks to prepare, give a uniform date, but give more practice time.
Those that will suffer the most will be the teams struggling at the bottom of more powerful conferences (I don't care which conferences). Many schools have schedules that include over half their games conference games. That's a tough nut to crack when you are all beating each other up. Those bottom schools who play a tougher schedule than most schools, never have a chance to compete in their conference tournies and are automatically out of post season play.
Is it fair for a school like Duke or Boston College or Mayland to have to lose out each and every year in post season when some other school with half the difficulty who, just because they win their conference title gets a free pass?

I see ob44 understood what I meant.

quote:

Originally posted by observer44:

Gonna be a place in the future for iron armed two ways who can "burn" innings regardless of top velocity...

44
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I thought more schools would be looking at two way players as gold, but many I have seen are not getting out of their usual ways and keeping pitchers only, due to the time requirements of conditioning, throwing bull pens, long toss, etc.

I like the fact that it is going to give the players a longer time to get ready...especially the pitchers. That being said, I worry (from an Athletic Trainer's AND college professor's perspective) about all the mid-week games. Arms will be taxed and classes will be missed. And guess what...missed class time means that many players will take even lighter schedules in the Spring...may do worse in those they do take...and the NCAA will find the APR's may drop even further.

JT,
It doesn't always mean the pitchers will be ready. Some pitchers need real game situations to practice their stuff, and you can't do that until this friday. That's also compacting much needed practice time. JMO.

It really doesn't matter, doesn't matter who starts strong, it's how you will finsih in the end, if you don't have enough pitching, it's gonna be tough.

quote:

tpm quote:
Is it fair for a school like Duke or Boston College or Mayland to have to lose out each and every year in post season when some other school with half the difficulty who, just because they win their conference title gets a free pass?

You mean teams from like the lowly Horizon League and other "bottom dwelling" conferences. They aren't deserving?

The NCAA is supposed to be all about the student in student-athelete??? The fact that there will be so many more mid-week travel dates and games, in the name of parity, is ludicrous.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
JT,
It doesn't always mean the pitchers will be ready. Some pitchers need real game situations to practice their stuff, and you can't do that until this friday. That's also compacting much needed practice time. JMO.

It really doesn't matter, doesn't matter who starts strong, it's how you will finsih in the end, if you don't have enough pitching, it's gonna be tough.

From visual observation...and from talking to parents of players at a few D1 schools...the players in their small group (wink wink) workouts are getting PLENTY of extra work in already.

quote:

Originally posted by rz1:

You mean teams from like the lowly Horizon League and other "bottom dwelling" conferences. They aren't deserving?

rz,
It could be any number of any fine conferences, you named one I didn't.

Ok, this is supposed to be about fairness, right? You tell me, where this is fair for any school in any conference.
If it is about fairness for northern schools, well now they have to travel to warmer climates and be on the road more often to play a 56 game schedule. Now schools in larger conferences FROM colder weather states still have bad weather to go up against. Where is ANY of this fair for anyone?

If you want fair, IMO either shorten the game schedule (for everyone but coaches didn't want that), or begin later, shorten your 64 field playoff, or play later into the spring with the Championship game end of June (you can shorten that too). Then shorten your summer wood bat schedules. Provide housing and food for all who go past post season (NCAA). Allow some games during exam time, I would imagine there are a whole bunch of things that you could think of that could work for everyone.

How about countable fall competition?

We are pretty much stuck with what we've got as far as our respective schedules.
THE GOOD NEWS IS, fRIDAY IS FEB. 1 !!!!!!!!

ONLY 22 MORE DAYS UNTIL BIG FUN!

quote:

rz,
It could be any number of any fine conferences, you named one I didn't.

OK, my bad for name dropping, you meant .... fine but undeserving conference's, right?

I'm here just to try and understand

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:

In the end, the teams with more arms waiting in the wings will prevail and the ones with less on their roster will work them to the max. JMO.

Although there is some truth to that, let's look at it a little further.

How many more starts did a southern Friday night starter get last year vs. their northern counterpart? Quite a few. Now ut will be much closer, if not identical. So now the southern teams will have to go as deep into their bullpens as the northern teams always have.

I am amazed by the argument that says "screw fairness, this is baseball". Or there's, "why should we have to suffer the same as those other schools with a compressed schedule?"

It's the same old story of the haves and have nots. The haves always cry when the table gets leveled. It's a story as old as history itself and it always has the same underlying driving component...Fear.

Well stop crying. Fair is fair, tough beans if you don't like it, grow up and deal with it. (and that is not directed at any particular person)

There are bad teams in every Conference. Why not mention teams instead.

quote:

It's the same old story of the haves and have nots. The haves always cry when the table gets leveled. It's a story as old as history itself and it always has the same underlying driving component...Fear.

Not sure that delayed starting will level the field but I don't like waiting until the 22 nd to start the season. For me it has nothing to do with leveling the field or feeling this makes a difference. Just a delay of a couple weeks.

quote:

All coaches work to define team roles

That goes on all season in my opinion. TPM you do have a way of making it sound inferior if you are not a weekend starter on a big conference school. Maybe you don't realise this.

quote:

Originally posted by CPLZ:

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:

In the end, the teams with more arms waiting in the wings will prevail and the ones with less on their roster will work them to the max. JMO.

Although there is some truth to that, let's look at it a little further.

How many more starts did a southern Friday night starter get last year vs. their northern counterpart? Quite a few. Now ut will be much closer, if not identical. So now the southern teams will have to go as deep into their bullpens as the northern teams always have.

I am amazed by the argument that says "screw fairness, this is baseball". Or there's, "why should we have to suffer the same as those other schools with a compressed schedule?"

It's the same old story of the haves and have nots. The haves always cry when the table gets leveled. It's a story as old as history itself and it always has the same underlying driving component...Fear.

Well stop crying. Fair is fair, tough beans if you don't like it, grow up and deal with it. (and that is not directed at any particular person)

CP,
I never argued it was unfair, my son played 5 game week schedules for 3 years. I was giving another take for those that argue it was unfair.

It's not always the # of starts, but how deep you can go into your starts because now you need 5 starters who will perform. If you don't have 5 reliable starters, you will have your starters on a 5 day rotation and that's tough unless you keep your pitch counts low.
I think my son started 11 games totalling 98 innings. He was pretty beat end of the season on a 7 day rotation with plenty of arms in the wings. And, it's not the season, it's post season. Instead of 56 games, now you are talking maybe 70+.

If you want fair all teams would have the same budjet,the same # of scholarships and I could go on for an hour. Who cares we just want to get started. A couple weeks delay wont't make things equal.

quote:

cplz posted: How many more starts did a southern Friday night starter get last year vs. their northern counterpart? Quite a few. Now ut will be much closer, if not identical. So now the southern teams will have to go as deep into their bullpens as the northern teams always have.

Maybe I'm missing something. It seems bunches northern teams started mid-February in the past. Are there teams that actually didn't start till March? Didn't most just travel the first month? I think northern weekend guys got 14-15 starts, if they stayed healthy, etc.

Compressing the season is like trying to lengthen golf courses to keep Tiger Woods from winning. How'd that work out? The teams with the best line ups and deepest staffs will still win, regardless of 4 or 5 more weekday games. It's not a big deal.

* All the southern teams will have equivelent schedules, as they did last year.

* The post season tournaments are still the same formats as last year.

* Northern teams will still have to travel every weekend for a month 3 weeks at the start of the year.

Not a biggie, imo.

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quote:

Maybe I'm missing something. It seems bunches northern teams started mid-February in the past. Are there teams that actually didn't start till March? Didn't most just travel the first month?

So...one way of looking at it is we have TAKEN AWAY all the opportunities for the northern teams to play early games...south...

...and in esssence penalized EVERYBODY...south AND north...

so...EVERYBODY LOSES....

Hey, let's make everybody suffer...Makes a great deal of sense to me!...

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I know I'm suffering !
I have 3 Northern scholls within 25 mins from me and I watch there games. I have several gtuys I know on them as they recruit heavily here.
They all played for a couple weeks mid Feb in the south . They don't go too far but far enough to get reasonable weather. UBC an NAIA school has a Cal trip to start their season. They go for 2 weeks every year.

Baseball players already missed more classes than any other student athletes, before the rule change. Athletically the rule is basicaly fair. Academicaly the rule is universally punitive.

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Said this before...seeing a great deal more on-line classes in the spring...that will help...

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quote:

Originally posted by rz1:
OK, my bad for name dropping, you meant .... fine but undeserving conference's, right?

Conference USA 9 teams in conference. Rice has 20-21 games before conference as an example. I never said bad teams.

Hey I don't have a dog in this fight anymore, just trying to point out, those that cry not fair, there's always another side you can come up with to show it may not be fair for anyone.

Many "southern" teams always began their games late february. If this is a north south thing, bad example. As I said and so did Dad04, those northern teams still have to spend time on the road. And in the end, the same teams WILL emerge, they haven't evened out any playing field, JMO.

Here in West Virginia [the northern-most southern state, the southern-most northern state, the eastern-most western state and the western-most eastern state] living only 40 miles south of Flatwoods [the mathematical centerpoint of the United States population in 1950 according to the US Census Bureau] it is still cold. REAL COLD. Too cold to play games outside. And when it isn't cold, it is wet. REAL WET. Freeze/thaw, freeze/thaw, freeze/thaw, ad infinitum. Too wet to play games outside. I mean games that really mean anything.

Football, sure. They can play that game in mud or frozen ground. But baseball. Come on now. And from what weather forcasts I have seen, next week will be no different. Will it be better by February 22? Mother Nature offers us no guarentees but the odds are in our favor.

"Come south and play," some say. That might be a good idea for our two DI schools in West Virginia. West Virginia University of the Big East Conference can go play South Florida this time of year. So can the rest of the Big East [assuming they all have that kind of a travel budget]. South Florida gets all their conference home games eaten up in February. Lots of pitching issues there. Maybe they don't want to do that.

Marshall University of the CUSA can go play Rice and Tulane this time of year. So can the rest of the CUSA. They get all their conference home games finished by February's end. But do they want to have that pitching problem?

But what about those teams that have no conference opponents south of the Mason Dixon line. They have to play [dare I say it] NON-CONFERENCE OPPONENTS if they go south. If the big rich teams [regardless of conference] play most of their non-conference away games against southern opposition, then the non-conference home games, if any, will be played against whom? Whoever needs a non-conference away game, right? And who exactly needs that? Not any of the big rich boys that went south to play their non-conference away games.

Point being, isn't it a little too early to declare this NCAA experiment a failure. Too many complexities and too many unanswered questions at this point and speculation only leads to . . . . . . . . . further speculation. Let us give it some time. After all fairness often, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

TW344

quote:

Originally posted by Dad04:
Maybe I'm missing something. It seems bunches northern teams started mid-February in the past. Are there teams that actually didn't start till March? Didn't most just travel the first month? I think northern weekend guys got 14-15 starts, if they stayed healthy, etc.

I'm guessing the argument that the northern teams made was, yes, they're traveling south / west to play in warm weather for their first ___ number of games. But this will be their first time on the field outside compared to their opponent who had been playing outside for a month or so. I'm thinking they feel that "playing" baseball indoors on field turf football practice field (assuming thier school even has one) is a tad bit different than playing outside.

Beez,
You are right, they wanted a later practice start date.
However, don't think for a moment that those 80 degree days has stoppeed anyone from being on the field all afternoon, just not in organized practice.

I saw an interview with a coach that said lots of time in between fall practice and spring practice is not always a good thing, and I would imagine that would go for whether practice is indoors or outdoors.
All it does is force the 5 games a week for many programs and if that's the beef for most folks that's legit.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
All it does is force the 5 games a week for many programs and if that's the beef for most folks that's legit.

THAT...is certainly my beef.

quote:

But this will be their first time on the field outside compared to their opponent who had been playing outside for a month or so. I'm thinking they feel that "playing" baseball indoors on field turf football practice field (assuming thier school even has one) is a tad bit different than playing outside.

Beezer, I get that practicing indoors isn't the same. There are actually relatively few schools where practicing or playing outdoors right now is even practical or productive, imo. It's really only reasonably good weather below Jacksonville on the east coast. The rest of the south struggles with the weather until March. Maybe the west coasters can give us a weather update there, but moving the date really only squeezed the season. They moved the ball a yard or two, imo.

quote:

Dad04 quote:
The rest of the south struggles with the weather until March

North of the Mason-Dixie would love that "struggle" .

Instead of whining about it, one Northern schools took it upon themselves to make the weather as much of a non-issue as possible. No school funds, all donations that also built a 5000 sq foot state of the art clubhouse and "drop dead" academic center exclusively for the baseball team. My son was one year away from playing on luxury at UIC. Check out this photo gallery. In order to keep up with the Jone's, you have to use similar playgrounds.

New UIC Field

The only dirt and the only thing that freezes is the mound. Now many consider it the nicest field in Chicago, or maybe even IL, college or MLB. You can bet the first 40 degree day when practices start it will be outside. Last year the first outside practice in Chicago was 3/22.

quote:

North of the Mason-Dixie would love that "struggle" .

I get that. I saw the Purdue team go outdoors the first time last year. It was cold to me, maybe 50, cloudy and "breezy". They were walking around in shorts and t-shirts.

It's a beautiful field. The poor Cajuns are talking about going to FieldTurf. It rains about 8 inches a month there. I'm guessing when he gets to the new NYY "Stadium" Ryan's feet may merely hover over the turf for a while.

UH had a new frost free surface installed this year. The 'Bows ice hockey team is none too happy about it.

quote:

Originally posted by Dad04:
It's really only reasonably good weather below Jacksonville on the east coast.

I think our perspective of "resonably good weather" are WAY different!!! I'm guessing that northern schools would drool over mid 50's and prefer to be outside right about now!!!