Finaly BBCOR

Azlan... I am not an expert, so please don't take this as a reason to buy that new bat for JR... But, I have spent some time researching this, especially since the NFHS committee moved the composite ban up one calendar year. Also, I did buy a 2011 Voodoo Black(4) for GUN to use this spring and I do believe it is legal.

The NFHS changed their bat rules to match NCAA rules. This means bats illegal in NCAA play will be illegal in HS starting on 01/01/2011, specifically 100% composite bats. The 01/01/2011 date specifically speaks to composite bats.

The rule changed is NFHS 1.3.2, which requires (starting 1/1/12) all non-wood bats to meet the Batted Coefficient of Restitution (BBCOR) standard. This is a much stricter standard than the old BESR standard. According to the NFHS, “the new standard ensures that performances by non-wood bats are more comparable to those of wood bats. It’s also expected to minimize risk, improve play and increase teaching opportunities”. They say “After working with the NCAA and having access to its research, we’ve concluded it’s in our best interest to make this change”. “BBCOR includes the BESR standard, so we’re actually expanding upon our current standard, which will be more appropriate for our age and skill level. The new BBCOR standard becomes the rule for NCAA in 2011 and in High School for 2012.

Also, it appears composite handles are OK, like the 2011 Voodoo Black.

See the NFHS’s press releases on this topic here http://www.nfhs.org/content.aspx?id=4052&terms=bbcor and here http://www.nfhs.org/content.aspx?id=4073&terms=bbcor.

Hope that helps. GED10DaD

GunEmDown10, thanks alot for your explanation. It makes sense to only allow bats that perform more like wooden bats and less like high powered sling shots. Im just impatient when it comes to waiting for the new stamps. I cant justify buying a bat that can only be used for a year (in high school play that is). Thats why ive always stayed away from full composite bats. Its been my experience that you get longer life out of alloy bats. So I'll be all over that Vexxum once its BBCOR certified. Like I said before im impatient so I hope it happens soon!

This is hilarious, justbats must of heard about my impatience because I just went to it and it now has a high school approved page for there -3 bats. THANKS (and I know its not cuz me, just funny) Now if we could only do something about getting them all stamped. haha

Just Bats has 1 bat that has the BBCOR stamp on it.
http://www.justbats.com/product.view.aspx?p=12604

I live in CA. I have to buy 2 bats for next year my older son in H.S. used a SV12 and now has to use a BBCOR bat. My younger son plays in Little League jr. division and used a -3 Stealth Speed which is now banned for that division in LL.

I feel your pain, im right there with you. I have my high school boy wanting the 2011 Demarini Vexxum and a boy getting ready for 11U travel ball wanting an 2011 Easton Rival. It seems to never end. But what are we here for if not to give our kids everything we can while there interested. Ive heard that about the Stealth being banned, that sucks for you..not a cheap bat! But from what Ive heard the BBCOR certification does not go into effect till 2012.

Here in Ca. It goes into effect Jan 2011.

http://www.cifstate.org/sports/other/baseball.html

So, is this bat legal for 2011??

http://cgi.ebay.com/LOUISVILLE...&hash=item3a5e74e291

quote:

Originally posted by Eric G:
So, is this bat legal for 2011??

http://cgi.ebay.com/LOUISVILLE...&hash=item3a5e74e291

For HS baseball, all BESR bats are legal for the 2011 season, except in CA (if commercially available by January 2011). Colleges must use BBCOR bats starting in 2011. Starting in 2012, both HS and college baseball must use BBCOR bats.

Swweeeeet!

Here's the link to find out which bats have passed the certification for BBCOR.

http://m-5.eng.uml.edu/umlbrc/...ied_bats.asp#results

I'd trust this list before any ad online. So far all my son has seen at his D1 school is the Rawlings. Says it hits and sounds like wood. They'll probably get some Demarini and Lousville's to try out before they pick one out for the season.

This whole BBCOR thing is such a good turn of events, its hard to find fault with it. But I have to admit, its going to be really annoying to pay $200-$300 for the same kind of performance we were getting out of bats in the '80s.

quote:

Originally posted by wraggArm:
This whole BBCOR thing is such a good turn of events, its hard to find fault with it. But I have to admit, its going to be really annoying to pay $200-$300 for the same kind of performance we were getting out of bats in the '80s.

The whole thing was just a marketing job by the bat manufactures. It was all about a new paint job and slick graphics. Performance was always about the same for all the bats (except the composites, when break in or cheating could alter the bat). Maybe the pricing will come down now that thee will be little difference between the various bat companies .

quote:

Performance was always about the same for all the bats (except the composites, when break in or cheating could alter the bat).

That is simply not correct. Look at the graphs in this article on aluminum bats in NCAA baseball. There is no question that Al bats have improved, been reined in by new rules, improved again, etc. There have been three cycles of this, and time will tell whther the BBCOR standard will succeed in holding performance down.

Yes, but now you get to pay $399.99 for a bat:

2011 DeMarini CF4 ST BBCOR Baseball Bat

Didn't the CF4 cost that before BBCOR?

From what I can see, the new BBCOR bats are hitting the market at the same cost of the old BESR models.

BBCOR Omaha

Vexxum

[url=http://www.eastbay.com/searchresults/?Nrt=Baseball+Bats&Ns=P_NewArrivalDateEpoch%7c1&Rpp=60&Nr=AND%28Sport%3aBaseball%2cProduct+Style%3aBats%29&N=605&cm_SORT=New Arrivals]Voodoo[/url]

Hey, for $99.00 this might just be the ticket.

[url=http://www.eastbay.com/searchresults/?Nrt=Baseball+Bats&Ns=P_NewArrivalDateEpoch%7c1&Rpp=60&Nr=AND%28Sport%3aBaseball%2cProduct+Style%3aBats%29&N=605&cm_SORT=New Arrivals]Mattingly V-Force BBCOR Baseball Bat [/url]

As more and more are released, it should be interesting to see how the pricing game unfolds but I sure like the idea of a $99.00 metal bat.

Linky, no blinky

Whats more messed up is for your $400 your getting a bat that only last a season...maybe two if your lucky(im talking composite)or is the plan to band composite all together. Not that I care I always liked Alloy bats myself. My boy had a Copperhead bat "HE" bought from walmart for about $30 about 3years ago. I got him a Demarini Vendetta two years ago. That alloy Copperhead had a ton more pop then that composite Vendetta ever had. He still has the Copperhead and kids on his little league team still choose to use it over a lot of the other bats...still has pop! For my money I'll take Alloy over Composite any day. Just my preference! preference preference preference preference

I have a friend who is a D3 coach and they got their hands on one of these bats last weekend....said that everything that has been written is true and it will absolutely change college baseball.

I hate the idea that it punishes the "good" hitters and levels the field and eliminates some of the power from the game....but I guess that's just the way it is.

QUOTE] I dont think it'll change anything but maybe 10-15' on the ball. The good hitters will still be blasting them out and the average hitters will still be average. It'll definitely take some power out of the game but not enough to change the game.

Everything I've read says up to 10% off a ball hit off the barrel.....10% is a ball going 360 instead of 400.....MAJOR DIFFERENCE

Guess you better hit the ball to left or right then instead of dead center.

Most of our boys have been using wood bats in the summers for years. If what is being said about BBCOR bats is true, it will make for a better game.

The one thing that might change is that season hitting records will be harder to break at colleges, but pitching records may become easier to break. In addition to bats getting closer to wood, at the D2 schools, we will have 6 less games to break records.

Only time will tell, but the change in college bats could mirror the end of the steroid era in pro ball.

I think this is good for the game, and pro scouts will appreciate the closeness of the aluminum and wood. I know players swing wood in the summer, but from a professional perspective, the spring is used to validate the upcoming draftees. Wouldn't you like to know during college season you are hitting .350 because you know how to hit rather than the bat has helped you out some, or a lot?

I'm confused, my son has a Demarini CF-3, can he use this bat for high school baseball in New Hampshire (NFHS) for this year 2010-2011?

Serious question.....i've asked it before but i'll do it again.

Why is the wood game more like "real baseball" we do all understand that the college game at lower levels (D2-NAIA-D3-JUCO) is not the same as what we see in Omaha, right? What chance does a 5'8 160 pound guy have with a wood bat???

Why do we want to punish the bigger, stronger guy who works hard and is able to square the ball up with more power? Why is it "real baseball" when the most famous players of all-time hit the most home runs.

Call me crazy but a D3 team hitting 8 home runs on the season, doesn't sound like "real baseball" to me.

quote:

Call me crazy but a D3 team hitting 8 home runs on the season, doesn't sound like "real baseball" to me.

I see on your profile that you are a coach.
Have you watched the NECBL, CPL, Valley League, Northwoods and others where there are more than a fair number of DIII's competing?
Yup, they get up to the plate with wood, just like the big DI guys.
Yup, more than a few end up either leading their league/teams in hitting or are very close to the top.
Yup, they actually do it with wood, real wood, just like the big time DI guys.
I don't know what your perspective is on DIII baseball, especially at the upper levels. They are guys who play, who compete, who have talent and who love to play the game...with wood, with metal, in cold, warm or any time a game can be scheduled. In fact, they play because most of them really love the game, not because a scholarship is part of the equation.
Yup, those lowly DIII kids, they play "real baseball....too"

quote:

Why is the wood game more like "real baseball" we do all understand that the college game at lower levels (D2-NAIA-D3-JUCO) is not the same as what we see in Omaha, right?

true statement. quite often it's better.

How many home runs did D1 Seton Hall hit last year? 7
How many home runs did D3 John Hopkins hit last year? 80

quote:

Originally posted by Coach Curt:
I'm confused, my son has a Demarini CF-3, can he use this bat for high school baseball in New Hampshire (NFHS) for this year 2010-2011?

As I read the by-law change, since it is a BESR certified composite barreled bat, then no. But like I said, I am not the expert, just my understanding of the new rule. Now, will every coach, umpire and HS official understand the rules and enforce them at their games....??? That is really the rub and remains to be seen. I suspect there will be some challenges come this spring.

GED10DaD

According to the NFHS website, there are BESR-ABI approved Composite Baseball Bats for the 2010-11 Academic School Year. All of them are Demarini bats...

These bats are listed at: http://www.nfhs.org/content.aspx?id=4155

GED10DaD

Ok, I think what i'm saying is being misinterpreted....I happen to think D3/NAIA baseball is GREAT and totally agree that it is a far less cut throat/job than major D-1, I'll cut you if you strike out, baseball.

All I was trying to say was that we keep talking about wood being better for a scouting/pro ball reason or because of the high scoring games in Omaha.....I'm just pointing out that Omaha/Pro Ball are not the focus of the vast majority of teams that play college baseball.

And yes, without a doubt the D3 All-American team would roll several D1 teams in the country, but the bottom level of D3 is much lower and those kids are really going to struggle with this bat.

Hope that clears it up.

bballfan,
Thanks for your explanation. Sorry if I reacted strongly to your views.
I just have a very different view.
Having had a son who coming out of HS and college had a fair number of college coaches and then pro scouts determine what he could not do and why he would not be successful, I certainly appreciate your position and your view that the "bottom level" of DIII will struggle with this bat.
What I have learned, or at least believe, is that 2 knowledgeable baseball people can watch the same player and one find what he cannot do and one appreciate and emphasize what he can do.
I have a distinct bias to the latter approach.
This bias/view applies to this issue with the the bottom level of DIII.
It seems likely those games were not power displays anyway.
Unless I am completely mistaken, the BBCOR is not going to break like wood when hit off the handle. This should continue to result is metal bat hits that would be outs with wood.
But the real core issue difference between us is my view that hitters will adjust after a period of adjustment time. If you watch Summer wood bat leagues, very few of those players start the Summer hitting well. After 10-15 games and "adjusting" to wood, those who can play/hit will be squaring balls and those who continue to have metal bat swings won't.
College players at any level are usually quite competitive. My belief is that hitters in college, even "lower level DIII" will make the adjustments. Once they do, I think they will play a game they love to play, with more of their skills challenged and more of their skills used.
The power game will be affected, if it existed at the level for which you are concerned, but from what Dad08 noted, the power game might be elusive at DI level programs, too.

quote:

And yes, without a doubt the D3 All-American team would roll several D1 teams in the country, but the bottom level of D3 is much lower and those kids are really going to struggle with this bat.

bsballfan - I don't think you need to make distinctions like this. Look, I am almost 50 years old and when I played in little league in the early 70's, it was all wood. We had fun and guys could still compete yet we were 100 levels below low D3 as you put it.

In 1972, one of our coaches introduced an aluminum bat on the team and you know what? No one ever used wood again. Every guy on the team used that same aluminum bat. Yes we could hit them farther with the aluminum but it was still baseball and if aluminum would not have been introduced, we still would have had fun playing the game and none of us would have struggled.

If we went back to wood today, no doubt there is an adjustment period (at any level including college players who turn pro) but nobody would be worse off after the adjustment imho. Big, strong guys will still hit them over the fence WHEN they hit the sweet spot and little, fast guys will still hit them in the gaps when they connect with the correct spot on the bat. I trust kids can learn how to do it again (not tied to any level of baseball). It might also reduce injuries on pitchers - i.e., make them have to throw less pitches (less wear and tear) to get outs.

I'm not even saying i'm completely against it, just curious as to why the "power game"is not considered "real baseball"

That was my question.

quote:

Originally posted by bsballfan:
I'm not even saying i'm completely against it, just curious as to why the "power game"is not considered "real baseball"

That was my question.

I never said that.

I love power as much as the next guy. You hit a hard fastball on the sweet spot with wood, you'll see power. I love watching guys run around the bases slowly - especially when it is my team running slowly The grand tour as Vin Scully called it!

Seriously, if kids had to develop wood bat skills, you'd see a lot more "power" imho.

The power game is "part" of real baseball.
To me, an important question in that equation is the source of the power. Is it the player or the bat.
In 1998, my view is the source of the power was clearly the bat when USC beat ASU 21-14 to win the CWS.
In 2010, when South Carolina beat UCLA 2-1 in 11 innings, there was still plenty of power in the game. However, while the bat was still a factor, it was very much less of the source.
I happen to believe power as part of the game is great, when the power comes from the players. It does not matter to me that the power is the line drive into the gap rather than the 435' homerun.
I happen to see the power game as "artificial" when it comes from the "tools" with which the game is played. That aspect, for me, is not "real baseball."

quote:

Originally posted by GunEmDown10:
According to the NFHS website, there are BESR-ABI approved Composite Baseball Bats for the 2010-11 Academic School Year. All of them are Demarini bats...

These bats are listed at: http://www.nfhs.org/content.aspx?id=4155

GED10DaD

Now this is just getting downright confusing.

The way I read the new rules, a composite bat will not be legal this year unless it has the BBCOR stamp but the link above references BESR??

Anyone want to take a stab at clarifying?

From July 10th...
http://www.nfhs.org/content.as...=4052&terms=baseball

And the actual rules...
http://www.nfhs.org/WorkArea/D...adAsset.aspx?id=4096

quote:

Effective beginning the 2010-11 school year, composite bats shall be illegal until meeting the standards of 1-3-2(e). ART. 2 . . .

1-3-2 (e) states the following...

quote:

e. Beginning January 1, 2012, all bats not made of a single piece of wood shall meet the Batted Ball Coefficient of Restitution (BBCOR) performance standard, and such bats shall be labeled with a silkscreen or other permanent certification mark. The certification mark shall be rectangular, a minimum of a half-inch on each side and located on the barrel of the bat in any contrasting color. Aluminum and composite bats shall be labeled as approved tamper evident, and be marked as to being aluminum or composite. This marking shall be silkscreen or other permanent certification mark, a minimum of one-half-inch on each side and located on the barrel of the bat in any contrasting color.