Finding the right Juco program

@Momball11 posted:

What advice do people have for finding the right Juco program these days as a position player?

We've got a College Baseball Insights subscription, which helps tremendously, especially when looking for a program that historically places multiple players into 4-year programs.

It would be desirable to find a program that doesn't have too many players rostered. That way there's a better chance of getting play time. What sort of roster size range should one be looking for?

It would also be great if there's athletic scholarship money available. Do most D1 juco programs have all 24 scholarships or does it vary from program to program? Can they be given to non-residents? How about for D2 juco programs? Even if they're tuition only, that scholarship can really make a difference.

If a juco program primarily has all of their players from within the region, would it mean the coach is unlikely to consider a player from outside the region?

Should one emphasize going to a juco program that historically places players at NCAA-D1 schools if that means they might not have much playing time their 1st year? Or would it be better to go to a juco program that has a dismal history of placing players at NCAA-D1 programs, but play time would be ample and immediate? I've seen D1-juco programs that only have maybe 1-2 players that are currently playing D1-NCAA and they're almost always pitchers.

Is there a way to determine or know if a juco program usually takes NCAA-D1 drop down players after the fall semester?

First and foremost, thank you for subscribing.

JUCO Pipeline = Player Development + Coaches network

Note, JUCO Roster data is notoriously bad, eg. missing previous school, incomplete where players are from etc.

We are in the process of reconciling some of the issue within the next few weeks.

Note, last year only 67% of all schools posted fall rosters, and in many cases they didn't publish incoming freshmen.

I'm not familiar with College Baseball Insight and I'm sure it's great and well worth the price of admission for the correlated data.

However, if you're into free DIY data grinding I'd also recommend TheBaseballCube.com. For instance in you type "McLennan" in the almost hidden search box on the top right corner, you'll get a link to this page:

Not only is there a drafted players history page, there's an alumni page link that lists all active players (assuming they've been in a game), and a bunch of very cool data for D1, D2, D3, JuCo and Pro levels:

I love Fangraphs, Baseball Savant, Baseball-Reference, Baseball Almanac, but IMO Baseball Cube does the best job combining the college and pro data in one place.

Here is my advice on this subject :

1. Use the search bar to find previous threads that talk about JuCo issues

2. Most JuCos are considerably better at either developing pitchers or developing position players. Hardly any are good at both. Make sure you find one that is better on the position player side.

3. Over-recruiting is a fact of life. Some places are worse that others. Word of mouth will tell you more than info you can find online. Avoid programs that have JV teams.

4. All JuCos are not fully funded - regardless of whether they are D1 or D2. And there is very little uniformity in how scholarships are handled from school to school.

5. Go where your player is wanted and where he can make a difference. That is where he will be treated the best and where he will get the most opportunity. This criteria is far more important than who advances the most players and who does or doesn’t put a lot of first year players on the field.

6. Every program is a reflection of its HC. So take a hard look at that guy and make sure his personality and habits are something that your player is comfortable with.

7. View JuCo as a 2 year commitment. Even if your player has a great freshman year it is a snowball’s chance in hell that he will be recruited to a 4 year school after one year at a JuCo.

8. As a parent, or as a player, once you get to your JuCo don’t start tagging 4 year schools on social media posts just to let them know where you are and that you are still interested in them. They do not care. I promise you they don’t. And it gives the optics that you are already thinking about your next stop before you have taken care of business where you are. Guess who doesn’t like that.

9. Understand that the person that can do the most to help you advance is your JuCo HC. Also understand that the person that can do the most to prevent you from advancing as you desire is also your JuCo HC. So stay on his good side. JuCo recruiting is different than HS recruiting in many ways but one big one in particular. The first phone call a 4 year school makes if they are interested is to your JuCo HC. It’s likely that no colleges called your HS HC. But once you get to JuCo it’s a different process.

10. There is no way to predict how many D1 bounce downs will show up at any JuCo program at any point in time. However, the more competitive the JuCo program is the more likely it is to happen.

11. This is just my opinion but I would try to avoid JuCo programs that bring in a lot of international players. A lot of foreign players often leads to a lot of problems

12. If you transfer from a JuCo to a 4 yr school within the same state there is a much greater chance of not losing academic credits.

13. JuCo coaches are among the most approachable. Ask them a lot of questions

@adbono posted:

2. Most JuCos are considerably better at either developing pitchers or developing position players. Hardly any are good at both. Make sure you find one that is better on the position player side.

3. Over-recruiting is a fact of life. Some places are worse that others. Word of mouth will tell you more than info you can find online. Avoid programs that have JV teams.

How does one go about determining if the Juco program is better at developing position players vs pitchers?

Is it typically mentioned on the program's website if there is a JV team?

@Momball11 posted:

How does one go about determining if the Juco program is better at developing position players vs pitchers?

Is it typically mentioned on the program's website if there is a JV team?

You will have to talk to players/parents that have been in a specific program under the current HC to find out if any given program favors pitchers or position players. But a good indication is to find out about the playing history of the HC. JV teams are often not mentioned on a program’s website. That’s another bit of information to get from talking to other players and parents.

Teams with JV programs are player killers at any level.  The JV team is a just a funding source for the varsity and coaches.

To find out the strength of the program, look at who is moving on to MLB draft or P5 schools.  That will tell you where the coaching staff is strong in the past few years.  But you also have to know that some are not good developers at all but just really good connections with P5 schools that have a guy that needs some time before he goes to them or didn't get drafted as high as he wanted.

Finding out which programs have a JV team and which programs are pitcher developers vs position player developers is going to be some work.

@CollegebaseballInsights do you have this data?

I'm going to attempt to put together a spreadsheet of this information to share. Anyone out there that is reading, please feel free to message me the following:

Juco Program Name / Yes or No JV / Pitcher or Position Developer

The first item I found when I googled "community college baseball jv":

https://community.hsbaseballwe...lleges-with-jv-teams

Momball, Adbono, Another Parent,

If the team has a "high" BA then the Head Coach is hitter emphasis. If the team ERA is "low" the focus is defense and pitching.

The top "winning"  teams have both.

Bob

https://thefcsaasports.com/spo...23/standings-include

JUCO programs can be unaffordable for out of state students but a great resource for in state students, especially if your state uses state lottery funds to subsidize tuition (student has to meet academic requirements). A great resource might be your son's HS guidance counselor if your states JUCO programs feed into state 4 year programs.

I did a search and all the Jucos in FL with baseball came up. Not sure of what particular state you are looking for.

Footnote as an FYI.

My understanding is that the player should contact each JUCO to ask about their individual programs. Your coach can then do a follow up with recommendation.

@Momball11 posted:

Finding out which programs have a JV team and which programs are pitcher developers vs position player developers is going to be some work.

@CollegebaseballInsights do you have this data?

I'm going to attempt to put together a spreadsheet of this information to share. Anyone out there that is reading, please feel free to message me the following:

Juco Program Name / Yes or No JV / Pitcher or Position Developer

KISS Method

How every you perform your search

College Search

or

JUCO Pipeline feature

Check

JUCO Pipeline Details for the specific year shows where the positional strength resides

Players Attrition - Outbound shows how many players from previous year moved on

If the 1st two criteria pass the smell test:

You can drill down to the school roster on the distribution by state or distribution by position page.

Note, majority will not display jv

Here is a quick overview of

@TPM posted:

https://thefcsaasports.com/spo...23/standings-include

JUCO programs can be unaffordable for out of state students but a great resource for in state students, especially if your state uses state lottery funds to subsidize tuition (student has to meet academic requirements). A great resource might be your son's HS guidance counselor if your states JUCO programs feed into state 4 year programs.

I did a search and all the Jucos in FL with baseball came up. Not sure of what particular state you are looking for.

Florida is only one state.

Data quality (eg. accurate grad class) and availability depends on the schools budget

Note each region in the NJCAA has their own challenges.

Northeast information is poor at best (1 D1)

Midwest D3 really bad

CCCAA has the best quality

Over the last 2 years, Dr. Christopher Parker, CEO of NJCAA has been following us on x(twitter) and reposting CBI tweets.

Can you research JUCO programs yourself, "YES"

Will it be as complete as CBI JUCO Pipeline feature.

"NO"

I used FL as an example. Due to the state lottery, it's very affordable for in state players, not nessacerily for OOS, which includes Momball's situation.

First option should be to search ones home state, especially if money is a strong consideration, whether one has purchased a subscription or not.

@TPM posted:

I used FL as an example. Due to the state lottery, it's very affordable for in state players, not nessacerily for OOS, which includes Momball's situation.

First option should be to search ones home state, especially if money is a strong consideration, whether one has purchased a subscription or not.

Most JUCOs lack an up-to-date "Moving On" or "Where are players Now" that is a given.

Note, with respects to affordability, common sense is local players get the benefits , although schools have the ability to request that you get housing "wink/wink" before you apply to the schools, thus get in-district or in-state rate.

Very interesting process

@TPM posted:

I used FL as an example. Due to the state lottery, it's very affordable for in state players, not nessacerily for OOS, which includes Momball's situation.

First option should be to search ones home state, especially if money is a strong consideration, whether one has purchased a subscription or not.

@Momball11situation is more about having a plan of action and what are the next steps.

As you've pointed out here are the steps for florida, whereas where she is from may be limited with respect to the number of jucos in her state.

Note, she will have to take a different approach based on the resources available.

As for quality information, Chipola hasn't updated their website with 2022 or 2023 grad class

https://www.chipolaathletics.c...eballfouryearplayers

Thus she would be trying to figure out their latest pipeline

Repeating this. In Florida because of the Bright Futures program and prepaid college, it's pretty easy to get into a Juco.

However, state schools are always looking for out of state students for the $$$$.

Again, my post was regarding Florida schools and a suggestion to search home state schools.

I don't think Chipola can give out info as where the players went until rosters are posted.

Chipola is one of the best Juco programs in the country. Pretty difficult even for in state players.

I have been in contact with Momball and familiar with the search.

Over and out.

@TPM posted:

I don't think Chipola can give out info as where the players went until rosters are posted.

Chipola is one of the best Juco programs in the country. Pretty difficult even for in state players.

I have been in contact with Momball and familiar with the search.

Over and out.

Again, Chipola does not have their 2022 (last year's) "moving on" on their website, thus it is difficult to know who from the 2022 grad class transferred after the 2022 season to play for a 4 yr school for the 2023 season.

How do you define best from a JUCO Pipeline perspective, they don't crack the Top 50

Well instead of repeating yourself to me, why not call them and just ask for the info.

@TPM posted:

Well instead of repeating yourself to me, why not call them and just ask for the info.

No need, the answer to chipola was already provided to you.  CBI doesn't need the moving forward information from Chipola in order to determine where their players have transferred to.

Like stated before, be careful sending people to school's website for certain information (especially JUCO Pipeline information) as for it is not maintained consistently by the 400+ juco programs

@CollegebaseballInsights posted:

No need, the answer to chipola was already provided to you.  CBI doesn't need the moving forward information from Chipola in order to determine where their players have transferred to.

Like stated before, be careful sending people to school's website for certain information (especially JUCO Pipeline information) as for it is not maintained consistently by the 400+ juco programs

You are extremely confusing.

KISS!

@adbono posted:

Here is my advice on this subject :

1. Use the search bar to find previous threads that talk about JuCo issues

2. Most JuCos are considerably better at either developing pitchers or developing position players. Hardly any are good at both. Make sure you find one that is better on the position player side.

3. Over-recruiting is a fact of life. Some places are worse that others. Word of mouth will tell you more than info you can find online. Avoid programs that have JV teams.

4. All JuCos are not fully funded - regardless of whether they are D1 or D2. And there is very little uniformity in how scholarships are handled from school to school.

5. Go where your player is wanted and where he can make a difference. That is where he will be treated the best and where he will get the most opportunity. This criteria is far more important than who advances the most players and who does or doesn’t put a lot of first year players on the field.

6. Every program is a reflection of its HC. So take a hard look at that guy and make sure his personality and habits are something that your player is comfortable with.

7. View JuCo as a 2 year commitment. Even if your player has a great freshman year it is a snowball’s chance in hell that he will be recruited to a 4 year school after one year at a JuCo.

8. As a parent, or as a player, once you get to your JuCo don’t start tagging 4 year schools on social media posts just to let them know where you are and that you are still interested in them. They do not care. I promise you they don’t. And it gives the optics that you are already thinking about your next stop before you have taken care of business where you are. Guess who doesn’t like that.

9. Understand that the person that can do the most to help you advance is your JuCo HC. Also understand that the person that can do the most to prevent you from advancing as you desire is also your JuCo HC. So stay on his good side. JuCo recruiting is different than HS recruiting in many ways but one big one in particular. The first phone call a 4 year school makes if they are interested is to your JuCo HC. It’s likely that no colleges called your HS HC. But once you get to JuCo it’s a different process.

10. There is no way to predict how many D1 bounce downs will show up at any JuCo program at any point in time. However, the more competitive the JuCo program is the more likely it is to happen.

11. This is just my opinion but I would try to avoid JuCo programs that bring in a lot of international players. A lot of foreign players often leads to a lot of problems

12. If you transfer from a JuCo to a 4 yr school within the same state there is a much greater chance of not losing academic credits.

13. JuCo coaches are among the most approachable. Ask them a lot of questions

Print his post and keep it as your playbook.  Adbono posted similar advice to me before my son went JUCO and it was all dead on.  I'm going to elaborate on a few bolded points. 

Most are good at developing one side or the other.  This probably applies to 99% of all JUCO's.  The 10 that can do both are the ones that go to Grand Junction most years.  I would also add that some coaches are LH dominant.  I know kids from our area that go to a JUCO an hour away and I tell them they swing with the wrong hand to play there.  They never listen and it never works out.

We funded 16 scholarships in year one and 18 in year 2.  Most of the kids were on an equal share but there were a few kids on full scholarship.   

Coach was no nonsense and tough.  It would take one game to see that personality on the field. 

We had over 30 go on to play D1 and one drafted in the 2nd round.  No one moved to D1 after one year. 

@TPM posted:

You are extremely confusing.

KISS!

Not confusing. I stated it very plain and simple.

You told her to go to the school's website to do her research.

I stated, if you are looking to see their juco pipeline, in many cases schools are not as up-to-date with respect to where their alumni are or they don't have a listing on their website at all.

I used Chipola as an example of not having an up-to-date webpage.

Then you tried to be witty, stating that I should contact them to update their website.

My response "there is no need, as for we have the answers",

Thus a person can quickly review any JUCO program in order to determine their pipeline (including where their positional strengths might be.

KISS

Note, this doesn't take away from this forum.

@d-mac posted:

Print his post and keep it as your playbook.  Adbono posted similar advice to me before my son went JUCO and it was all dead on.  I'm going to elaborate on a few bolded points.

Most are good at developing one side or the other.  This probably applies to 99% of all JUCO's.  The 10 that can do both are the ones that go to Grand Junction most years.  I would also add that some coaches are LH dominant.  I know kids from our area that go to a JUCO an hour away and I tell them they swing with the wrong hand to play there.  They never listen and it never works out.

We funded 16 scholarships in year one and 18 in year 2.  Most of the kids were on an equal share but there were a few kids on full scholarship.   

Coach was no nonsense and tough.  It would take one game to see that personality on the field.

We had over 30 go on to play D1 and one drafted in the 2nd round.  No one moved to D1 after one year.

@d-mac Agree.

The other important criteria is HC turnover.

All the standard questions that you ask about a program (player development, etc ), but also his network to 4 yr schools and summer league(s)

I appreciate all the advice and am still processing everything.

@d-mac you think if I review rosters and find that there are an abnormally high number of LHH, that would indicate that they are a Left dominant program?

Hey @Momball11, lots of good advice here. There are always outliers, perhaps your son belongs at some far-away power JUCO, but perhaps look for the strongest NJCAA D1 conference within driving distance. And then try to get a workout with most/all of the schools in that conference. As Adbono said, Juco coaches are pretty approachable, especially the guy handling recruiting. A call from a HS coach may be all that's needed to wire this up. (All of Adbono's advice when we were going through this was dead on, as well). Getting up close will help. A great way to get an offer is to have an offer, and even better -- to have an offer from someone in the same conference who will have to play against your son if they don't land him.

When it comes time, I would make baseball $ a mandatory. Even small $. Good luck!