First Baptist

All I've heard is that private schools have rules just like U.I.L. schools when it comes to recruiting. All parties better be careful when it comes to cherry pickin kids away from their local institutions of learning. Enticements, as well as promises are frowned upon. If you think a 15 or 16 year old kid won't quote you ~ well, you better think again!

Yes indeed. A San Antonio private school was recently stripped of its TAPPS affiliation for recruiting violations.

I heard Cornerstone got their wrist slapped, but didn't know they lost their affiliation. Guess importing players from Mexico didn't work out so well for Mike.

I heard many rumors concerning myself that I was going to go there second semester- definately not the case.

Stang - Do you know something or are you just stirring up the pot?

quote:

Originally posted by swingdoctor14:
All I've heard is that private schools have rules just like U.I.L. schools when it comes to recruiting. All parties better be careful when it comes to cherry pickin kids away from their local institutions of learning. Enticements, as well as promises are frowned upon. If you think a 15 or 16 year old kid won't quote you ~ well, you better think again!

I have been an observer of this forum for a while, but I have never felt the need to jump in on any of the discussions until now. Last week I had one of my top players withdrawn from my school. His parents decided (with the help of his new coach, which is also his summer coach)that he would have more opportunities in TAPPS. From what I understand the tuition to be at this school, this student will have to be scholarshiped.
What I would like to know is, does anyone know the TAPPS Bylaws on this sort of thing. I was under the assumption that they could not recruit and scholarship. If I am wrong, so be it, but I don't think I am.

Welcome aboard. Cheapseats (for one) might be able to help you with this one.

I don't think the Private Schools can scholarship for athletics, but if a private citizen or parent wants to scholarship them, that is fine. That is probably the loop hole. Also, I don't think the a lot of coaches need to recruit. Kids just want to go where their friends are and where they are comfortable.

Most private schools - and my son attended one in Texas - offer scholarships to all (potential) students and it is based on financial need. I'm almost certain that it can't be based on anything else. Sure - a private citizen can pay for any student's tuition as well. In my son's case, the coach really wanted him to play ball there and had some influence in terms of a recommendation necessary for admission. His scholarship was based solely on financial need and was determined by a non-partisan admissions committee. He had to pass the school's enterance exam (which was a national exam) as well. Not certain if all private parochial schools in Texas require the national exam.

quote:

I don't think the Private Schools can scholarship for athletics, but if a private citizen or parent wants to scholarship them, that is fine.

I believe the politically correct terminology in the Private schools is "Financial Aid"....not "Scholarship".

OK, so said Baseball coach can sell players on his school, tell them that they are not being used properly at their school and how he would be different (even though said team was a joke last season), get them "financial aid" from some source, and all this is within the rules.

Great! We are bringing summer ball to High School.

7handicap -- this has been an issue/problem/circumstance (depending on your perception) for many years -- in all sports, especially basketball. I'm sure you are aware that several public school districes in the area do not require residence -- another can of worms if you ask me.

Let me guess...this player plays for ________________ during the summer season. (I stopped myself.)

quote:

Originally posted by Panther Dad:
7handicap -- this has been an issue/problem/circumstance (depending on your perception) for many years -- in all sports, especially basketball. I'm sure you are aware that several public school districes in the area do not require residence -- another can of worms if you ask me.

Let me guess...this player plays for ________________ during the summer season. (I stopped myself.)

"There is a sucker born everyday." P.T. Barnum
Barnum's book has kept this guy in Dallas way too long.

quote:

Originally posted by 7handicap:
OK, so said Baseball coach can sell players on his school, tell them that they are not being used properly at their school and how he would be different (even though said team was a joke last season), get them "financial aid" from some source, and all this is within the rules.

Great! We are bringing summer ball to High School.

Been going on for years.

Like I said before, the kids that go there will all be chunckin in the 90's (according to his gun)and if they like Odessa J.C. where 200+ will be there the first day next fall, they'll have a scholly waitin on em too. Trust me I'm not knockin O.J.C. It just seems to be the school of choice when a particular coach promises a chance at the next level. Coincidence?
I think not, and that's just my opinion as always.

Hopefully my kid does not have any family in Odessa, and he may come back next year after the Circus's welcome is run out at said school.

I know of at least two new transfers that are now at said higher learning institute. That much is confirmed. Both VERY recent transfers. You can find out the TAPPS rules on TAPPS' website. Will either player cause them to go from worst to first? I think you need more than two. Not saying they were the worst last year, just attempting to make the case that you need more than a couple of players to win your district.

All this tippy-toeing around! Cecil Espy is the new assistant coach at First Baptist and Omar Washington is the head coach. Prestonwood and DC will fight it out for that district. FB may be better, but not competitive with those two.

quote:

Originally posted by Natural:
All this tippy-toeing around! Cecil Espy is the new assistant coach at First Baptist and Omar Washington is the head coach. Prestonwood and DC will fight it out for that district. FB may be better, but not competitive with those two.

Speaking of DC.........does anyone know how Corey Brooks is doing as far as his shoulder is concerned? He had surgery last summer. I did notice he was playing basketball, so I wondered if he was ready for baseball. This kid is an awesome baseball player. One of the best raw talents I've seen in a long time.

quote:

Originally posted by swingdoctor14:
Like I said before, the kids that go there will all be chunckin in the 90's (according to his gun)and if they like Odessa J.C. where 200+ will be there the first day next fall, they'll have a scholly waitin on em too. Trust me I'm not knockin O.J.C. It just seems to be the school of choice when a particular coach promises a chance at the next level. Coincidence?
I think not, and that's just my opinion as always.

Hey Swing,
how did Cole Smith work out for him? I know he wasn't good enough to chunk it at RHS but Chuck LaMar and the Devil Rays appreciated the summer work.

I spent the first 10 years of my career in private schools, 6 in TAPPS.

According to the TAPPS by-laws, it is not illegal to recruit. In fact, it is the nature of private school to recruit since they do not have a mandatory attendance zone. They have a section in their manual that explains how to recruit.

The word ya'll are looking for is INDUCEMENT. This is what TAPPS will levy sanctions for. An inducement according to TAPPS is any type of "incentive" for a student to attend a TAPPS member school based on athletic performance.

No matter who the kid is or what type of extracurricular activity (if any) they do, they can apply for "financial aid" just like any other student would that wants to attend that institution.

TAPPS coaches that coach "select" ball during the summer and recruiting kids off their teams to play for them at their school has gone on for years. By far the best at it was the late great Steve Adair. Had many a battle with him when he was at TC-Addison and I was at FW Nolan.

When I was at Nolan, the perception was that I recruited and bought my team. Of course, the truth was that most of those kids were already there. I did get 3 kids that transferred from Arlington Martin that eventually got scholarships...but they were cut at Martin after their Freshman year. Was not exactly getting the cream of the crop.

I had many parents ask me at tournaments if Nolan gave scholarships so that their son could play baseball for me. My response was always...

take the entrance exam...
fill out an application for admission...
fill out a financial aid form...
do not say anything about playing baseball!!!

I have been gone from Nolan for 5 years...that is how it was when I was there.

Have any of the Country Day players transferred to First Baptist?

quote:

Originally posted by Panther Dad:
Have any of the Country Day players transferred to First Baptist?

Will Panther Son follow Ringo to SLC?

No ma'am, but your analogy is funny -- despite it lacking relevance.

quote:

Originally posted by Panther Dad:
No ma'am, but your analogy is funny -- despite it lacking relevance.

There would be relevance in him wearing a pith helmet and playing baseball at Greenhill.....true?

PantherSon has a team -- the grass is green enough in East Plano. But welcome to the message board -- you're obviously in-the-know. I imagine you can answer my original question...if you were so inclined.

quote:

Originally posted by Panther Dad:
Have any of the Country Day players transferred to First Baptist?

There was only one and I think Davey is still at FWCDS.

quote:

Originally posted by Natural:
All this tippy-toeing around! Cecil Espy is the new assistant coach at First Baptist and Omar Washington is the head coach. Prestonwood and DC will fight it out for that district. FB may be better, but not competitive with those two.

Thank you! I was so confused.

Ms Criswell -- certainly the team at FWCDS has more than one player -- notice I made no mention of the summer teams.

There are a few great players, or should I say were, at Country Day.

Hey, I routing for Cecil, great guy, great coach. He tried to recruit my son a time or two.

I heard they have had some long distance transfers for PR and Venezuela. The Big O has some big time Latin connections. Before everyone starts bashing Omar he has been very very good to alot of kids. I
know when TBI first opened he never charge a dime for the majority of kids that worked out there.
If you all are going to go off on this topic you better included Prestonwood. I know all them kids that play there have come from there congregation
"RIGHT"

C21 -- I think this topic applies to most private schools across the country. Perhaps the discussion includes hard feelings from some, but I don't think the intent was to imply that Omar or Cecil are somehow "evil" or underhanded. The "rules of engagement" are different for private and public schools -- no one can argue that point. Yes, same holds for Prestonwood or TCA or DC or American Heritage or whomever. (and folks, recruting occurs in the public schools as well) The private schools provide many opportunities for students and athletes.

Cecil has not recruited any of the current FWCD players. It would not be an easy commute. They have 2 Wrights at CD (Davey and Eric) and both are stud high school players. Cecil still works with both of them as a hitting instructor. Cecil and the new CD Coach Wes Hall have a good relationship.

Both of my son's have had the privilege to play for Cecil and Art. Both are very good coaches who love kids and baseball. My experience is the parents of the Private Schools do a majority of the recruiting, trying to get the players they play with and against in select ball to transfer. The coach will talk to them if they are interested. It is not easy for many high school students to meet the academic requirements at CD or Nolan. I may be in the minority, but both of my sons went to private school for the education first and baseball second.

quote:

Originally posted by 7handicap:

quote:

Originally posted by Panther Dad:
7handicap -- this has been an issue/problem/circumstance (depending on your perception) for many years -- in all sports, especially basketball. I'm sure you are aware that several public school districes in the area do not require residence -- another can of worms if you ask me.

Let me guess...this player plays for ________________ during the summer season. (I stopped myself.)

"There is a sucker born everyday." P.T. Barnum
Barnum's book has kept this guy in Dallas way too long.

7handicap,
This sounds like sour grapes....you ever think the parents might be looking for a coach who is a "scratch" and not a 7handicap?

Cecil Espy was my son's summer coach for about six years.

He is the single most important factor in the success that Matt had had in is baseball career.

I can list a lot more young men.

The boys at First Baptist will be blessed in a way that First Baptist would like, but Cecil will have an impact on the respect, integrity, and character of those young men that will never leave them.

Many on this board seek the magic formula or model to achieve success in their son's baseball careers.

If you ever have the opportunity to have your son coached by Cecil Espy, do not turn it down.

Cecil Espy is the same to the baseball world as W. A. Criswell is to the First Baptist Church in Dallas.

If I had a son entering high school next year, and someone offered me a "scholarship" for my son to attend First Baptist Church, I'd take it.

My suggestion to those that resent the transfers.

Offer a better opportunity.

From a personal standpoint, Prestonwood Christian Academy would be an excellent option for PantherSon -- we are members of PBC. And for the record, we would welcome the opportunity for Jeff to play for Cecil Espy. Having said that, we are very happy with our HS and summer situations. Despite my opinions on private school recruiting and such, I think the opportunities that private schools present are attractive and I believe that 99% of the local private school coaches in this area "recruit" within the rules. reggie made an excellent point --- much of the recruiting occurs outside the coaches' direct control.

quote:

Originally posted by FormerObserver:
Cecil Espy was my son's summer coach for about six years.

He is the single most important factor in the success that Matt had had in is baseball career.

I can list a lot more young men.

The boys at First Baptist will be blessed in a way that First Baptist would like, but Cecil will have an impact on the respect, integrity, and character of those young men that will never leave them.

Many on this board seek the magic formula or model to achieve success in their son's baseball careers.

If you ever have the opportunity to have your son coached by Cecil Espy, do not turn it down.

Cecil Espy is the same to the baseball world as W. A. Criswell is to the First Baptist Church in Dallas.

If I had a son entering high school next year, and someone offered me a "scholarship" for my son to attend First Baptist Church, I'd take it.

My suggestion to those that resent the transfers.

Offer a better opportunity.

My son has only played for Cecil as a pickup player, and I agree with everything you say FO.

If to become "scratch", I have to tell kids that they throw 5mph faster than their actual speed,that their other coaches must not know how to evaluate talent, not pay my employees, have HS kids do my job for me, if that is what it takes, I'll keep my handicap. Go out to Rockwall and see what the majority of people think.
Mark my words. The welcome will be worn out. One way or another it will become a circus. Then it will move to another town and affect another community.[/QUOTE]
7+,
You may want to check your "facts", ask the people in Rockwall? I am writing from the Mickey Florence Athletic Complex perched right on here on the Rock.

The facility you anecdotally speak of is MacSports see the prefix "MAC" and see the owner with the same prefix for non-payment.

My experience with Cecil is he has brought a level of respect and knowledge to the game (baseball) the previous JV football coach did not provide in the public school.

FO is right on the mark, offer a better opportunity.

Here are my parting words.
I have been an instructor, summer coach, and HS coach. I worked closely with DC back in 99-00. I understand how things work, and for the most part I don't have a problem with it. But understand this, there are people who do it the right way and people who do it wrong. I will leave it at that.

Also,I used to coach against Cecil in the summer, and I agree, he is seemed to be a great guy and good coach. I only hope the best for him.