Flat Bill Caps

Let?

My old coach never used let us wear our caps backwards or off to the side or tilted or anything- only straightforward. But I started using a flat brim (I did it as a joke and now I can't go back) and he used to joke around about it.

Not in this day and age?

Who teaches kids how to blouse their pants?

If it doesn't affect their play then it doesn't bother me.

Didn't see too many teams, if any, with flat billed caps in Jupiter .


What does that tell you?

Our kids are not allowed to even wear their caps backwards

I hate it. When I see another team wearing them, I want to beat them bad. I think it's because we are near East Cobb and those guys (Astros) wear them and they are super cocky. Any time I see anyone wearing one, it just puts off an air of cockiness and I want to put them in their place. Just my impression.

I don't care about the bill of the cap. I want the hat on straight. These fads come and go. I remember curling the edges and folding the bill in half. Just wear it straight ahead.

Bum, Jr. always wore a flat-billed hat until recently. (And bballman, he is most definitely not a cocky kid. Confident, yes, but not cocky.)

Bobby Brett (brother of George Brett and current Spokane Indians owner), who was an assistant coach on his Summer team, kept teasing him about it until Bum, Jr. finally gave in and gave it a curl. I'll have to admit, after all those years watching my flat-billed kid, I grew fond of it.. it was his signature. But Bobby's advise was you never want to give a coach something not to like about you.

I see a lot of tha players wearing them. How does that show disrespect for the game in anyway?
This is just like when players started wearing their pants down instead of socks showing. who cares?I dont think it makes a player look cocky,that might just be how kids act hat or not.

Bum, I'm sure there are a lot of kids who wear the flat bill who are not cocky. To be honest, the 15 yr old EC Astros have reason to be cocky/confident. They are an exceptional group of players. I'm just saying that is my personal reaction when I see it. Makes me want to knock them down a peg. I don't dislike them, just want to beat them.

Never! Why? I want a team to represent themselves as a team and not individuals. While this may be stretching it for many people that are more liberal than I, anything that draws attention to the individual distracts from the team. MY opinion. When we got off the bus, you'd see 18 guys on one mind. I felt the same about whether the pants were high or low. I felt the same about undershirts. (We had sleeveless uniforms.) I felt the same about... I can't speak for anyone else and don't pretend to. JMHO!

BTW, I didn't suggest that it is disrespectful to the game. One team! One mind! One mission! No individuals.

quote:

Originally posted by CoachB25:
One team! One mind! One mission! No individuals.

Great Post- Could not have said it better. Wish more coaches thought that way.

This is kind of similar to hair length, facial hair, etc..

My basketball coach had a policy about hair couldn't touch the collar of a collared shirt, couldn't cover the ears, couldn't be in the eyes, no bleach blonde, clean shaven, etc. Our baseball coach adopted the same policy my senior year I think it was.

Coach's feeling was "we would be a team WITH character; not a team FULL OF characters"

I also dislike the flat bill. Why?

1. Personal taste. I just think it looks stupid. Doesn't mean I'm right and you're wrong because you like it flat...BUT, since I'm the coach, I make the call as to how my team appears. I want my team clean shaven, pants all the same, although I prefer them down (for a specific reason), nothing written on the OUTSIDE of hats, black shoes.

2. I see troubled/criminal youths on a daily basis. The flat billed hat is part of their "uniform" if you will. That, not Pros or college, is where the look started. To ME, a team full of flat billed hats is a team of either (a)punks, or (b) wanna be punks from the suburbs who want to look bada**. They are even more ridiculous than the first group; at least the first group came by the look originally, and are probably actually TOUGH kids, not well-to-do suburban kids who want to act like they have a deserved chip on their shoulder.

I realize that this is just a look. You, the younger set, need to realize that to a lot of us coaches/older parents, it is more than just "a look" it is a representation of someone who is either disrespectful or anti-establishment or trying to rebel. You may not be that way at all, but your outward appearance gives you an initial appearance by which a large part of society will judge you.

There are several colleges whose players wear the flat bill. Obviously, their coach is OK with it, and that is fine. However, if you are hoping to be looked at by a coach, realize that there are probably more coaches who will be "put off" by a flat bill, than there are coaches who will be "put off" by a normal bill. Fair? Maybe not, but it is the way it is.

I had a teacher once who told me: "Show me who you run with, and I'll show you who you are"...kind of follows in the same vein. Wear the Pro hat with the flat bill off to the side, pants down around your thighs, IPOD CONSTANTLY in your ears, no "yessirs" or "nossirs" or "thankyous", and you will fail to impress MOST adults. And if you run with a bunch of friends who act the same way, you will find people questioning your behavior when it probably shouldn't be questioned.

Just my 2(maybe 4?) cents.....

I personally don't care if they have them flat or not or if they were their pants up or down. When I played I preferred my pants to go down to my shoes and be loose for comfort. I'm not going to tell a kid to wear his hat or uniform in a way that might be uncomfortable to him. As long as they play hard and play the way the game is supposed to be played all the other uniform stuff is meaningless to me.

Its nothing to do with pants height, hair length or any of that. As TCB1 did say, its about the Thug Uni. It started in the streets and its part of gang culture. If your players want to dress thuggy after the game, so be it. But the hat thing is not only goofy, its young peole trying to carry their attitude over onto the field. The only style that matters is the style of play, and the team should be recognized for that, and not for some gang hat style.
When we were kids and we wanted to look really goofy, we would pull our hats down over our ears and flatten the bill. It still makes a kid look dumb IMO.

What are you trying to say? Look at me? Its about me? Im different so look at me? Im cool?

You will all look the same because you are. You are a team. Wear the uniform with respect and respect the game. Anything that takes away from the team and creates and individual atmosphere needs to go and go now.

Wear them all up or all down. I hate eye back and face paint. If you want to look like a clown join the circus. I personally cant stand all the beads and necklaces hanging off the necks. How many do you need? Why do you need them? How many Mr T starter kits does a kid need? Whats the point of three sweat bands on each arm and its 50 degrees outside at the game? How many pairs of batting gloves do you need hanging out of your back pockets? Usually the guys wearing all this stuff cant play a lick to start with.

I am old school. What you about son? You here to play this game and kick some butt? Or are you here to make a fashion statement and try to put the focus on yourself? My players are going to bring it every day. They are going to attack the game and practice like they play. Real players dont need this junk.

JUST PLAY THE GAME.

Trust me I sat with several D1 college coaches this past weekend at a showcase and we spend about an hour all saying the same thing. Many of you would be surprised how many kids hurt themselves before the game is ever played. One coach laughed so hard he started crying. "Look at that kid. He has three necklaces , a flat bill hat , two sweat bands and a set of batting gloves in his back pockets. OMG!"

Like it or not but most coaches are so turned off by this type of stuff. It doesnt matter what you think. Your not the one making the offers.

Some great posts here. When I was young, if you wore that style you were lucky to be called stupid, and more likely to get your A$$ kicked. It all comes down to presenting yourself as a player who is comfortable in the uni and just wants to play. Same rules apply in business. Don't give them anything that draws attention to your quirks. Same goes for kids with the arm bands, tats, and sunglasses on their caps. I'm a little more tolerant with hair though, being a guy who once wore the uni of a rock'n'roller.

spizzle.. So you're good with Manny Ramirez and Johnny Damon (ala the Red Sox) and their hair from hell but not a kid with a flat-bill?

Well I'll admit, didn't know about the "gang-roots" as we're pretty tame about that stuff up here. So I understand why some of you'd be against it now that I know. But one observation on the "all-the-same-look" theory. I've seen the harsh side of that, too. One "team" getting off a new "team" bus wearing "team" Oakley sunglasses and "team" $100 gear bags and "team" $400 composite bats.

Only to get the living **** kicked out of them by a bunch of misfits.

I think it's more about attitude and intentions than the "look".

I blame Dontrelle Willis for the flat bill caps. It seemed about the time he was wearing the side ways flat bill it became very popular with younger kids.

quote:

Originally posted by Bum:
spizzle.. So you're good with Manny Ramirez and Johnny Damon (ala the Red Sox) and their hair from hell but not a kid with a flat-bill?

Bum,
Perhaps I didn't explain myself well. With regards to fashion, when you get to that level where Ramirez and Damon reside there aren't many people left who can tell you what you can or cannot do. That look is not for me, but I can understand why they do it. BTW, the uni regs for the NFL are much more strict than MLB yet we see lots of hair coming out from under those helmets. The do it because they can- freedom of choice up to a point I guess.
For an up and coming ballplayer I would strongly discourage that approach for the reasons previously stated.
Now, I'm no longer in a position to command young players what to do, but when I was I always felt that the uni was just that, uniform dress code. All my players wore it pretty much the same. But a dress code doesn't have to infringe into a kid's, or a family's personal life, especially at the youth level. My son played HS ball for 3 years with a flat brim, as did his teammates. With a new coach his Sr. year that all stopped, and everyone was good with it. I complimented him on the hat when it finally got some curve, however he still wears his personal hats with a flat brim. I really have no problem with that.
Personal hygiene, including hair, goes in and out of the uniform, but it doesn't define the uniform. As long as it's clean and it doesn't affect the kid's play or attitude, I couldn't care less. I had a girl on one of my baseball teams, and she was very good with her long hair in a pony tail, but her uni was trimmed just like the boys. If a kid (male or female) wears his hair long for whatever reason, religious, gender, cultural, monetary, then so be it. Besides, the kids themselves did a pretty good job of policing themselves. If anyone tried to stand out too much for selfish reasons they got hammered.

What if everyone on the team wanted and / or did have a flat bill?

First time I saw the flat bills, it was a west coast college thing (CSF, Long Beach State among others).

I think it looks silly but is OK by me if it's a team unity thing. Even stupid mohawks are OK if they help you get to the World Series.

What I don't like is when one guy decides to do it to be different. A uniform should be, well, uniform. And players need to understand that what they want individually is always secondary.

I dont like wearing my pants legs up. But we let our seniors decide every year and last year they wanted to wear them up. So we all did. I dont like white cleats. But last years team wanted white cleats so we all wore them. As long as everyone is the same I can live with it. But I am not going to wear a flat bill hat. So when a couple of sr's tried to put that to a vote a shot it down in a hurry. You got to draw the line somewhere! lol

It doesn't cost any extra, so I let my kids choose which one they want, flat or curved. They prefer the flat about 4 to 1. Its just what is "in" and I don't have a problem with them wearing them.

On a side note, I haven't noticed a significant change toward "thugishness" by our kids since the bills became flatter.

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:
What if everyone on the team wanted and / or did have a flat bill?

Coach, I tell them what they like. I've never taken a vote. I've never asked them to approve. I tell them I know how to win and they follow. I tell them about togetherness, tenacity, moxie and a sense of one team one mind as I mentioned before. I've never had any player ask. They know what one of my players looks like. BTW, they also know that I despise clean uniforms at the end of a game. They do their best to get dirty.

I hear you coach. I played for some guys that never allowed us to have a say in anything. It used to P me off. I am not talking about between the lines stuff. So to me if the guys that have been with me for four years want to wear white cleats its the least I can do. They already know how to play the game. If they didnt they wouldnt still be around.

Interesting thread and opinions.

In the one of just a handful of colleges in America where uniforms are part of the daily life, Army allows the players to choose their individual preference for hats.

The flat billed hats look different on different head shapes. Some it looks quite natural, on others it looks very out of place and you'd get the impression that the person was trying to call attention to himself.

I guess I just dont get the gangster correlation with the flat hat bill. If the player is clean, clean cut, plays hard and isnt a problem with attitude why does ot matter if his hat bill is flat? I guess I just see thigs differently. There are things to make a stance on and things that I wouldnt get that carried away with, but I am not a coach. I see a lot of college kids wearing them, its just the fad of the time.I dont get how flat billed hat makes you a gangster or want to be gangster. Anyway whatever to each its own. i guess it comes down to what your own individual coach wants from you .

I believe I was the "poster" who referred to it as coming from that style. I never said it made you a gangster, but I did say that the style was essentially taken from urban style and that teams that wore their hats that way either WERE punks, or were dressing as "wannabe" punks. And I stand by that.

I don't care for the look because (1) I'm old, and us old guys get grumpy and narrow minded, and (2) some of us know where certain styles come from. YOU see the jewelry and the tattoos and the flat hats and just know it as a recent "style". I see it and know where it originally came from. I have a hard time relating that look to "just a look", when to me it is an indication of bad behavior, bad attitude, etc.

Younger people see a guy in a navy blue suit with white shirt and a striped tie, and you think "Stodgy old guy", don't you? But that might be a guy who is dressing how he needs to dress for a certain situation.

Plain and simple: I don't think all of my players who want to wear flat bills are punks or gangsters or attention hogs. And while you shouldn't judge a book by it's cover, people do so all the time. I want my team to be respected AND respectful, so I have certain minimums for how we present ourselves: no flat bills, matching undershirts, uniforms washed before every game, black shoes, clean shaven, hair off the collar, no jewelry or earrings at practice or games. Since I've got the gig as head coach, I get to tell the kids how I want the show run.

Every one has to have their own standards as a coach. I am not a coach. But if I was an I had players who were greeat students, great people, did all the things right in and out of the classroom, good player, clean cut, never in trouble in or out of school I wouldnt care. But thats the beauty of this site, we can agree to disagree. I am just of the mindset as I have raised my kids that I pick my battles, and if my kids show honesty and good hearts and are good people I dont care how he wears his baseball hat. if his coach cares then he has to obey the coach. At the JC he is at doesnt seem to be a issue. That may change later.But I do not like him wearing it backwards, I think thats more disrespectful to the game. or crooked to the side. But everyone must coach how they believe and for their teams. I just think differently about those types of things.I didnt like the pants down, still dont. I think it looks so much sharper with socks showing, many people didnt like that either but now its the way it is. A lot of the young guys try to immulate how the pro guys wear their hats.

I'm one who hated the flat bill. I also tied it into gang-types.

THEN...

My son started liking that style. And I think it looks good on him. As long as he keeps it facing straight ahead, I have no complaint.

I wonder how many others, like me, think it looks stupid on OTHER people's kids!

BTW, I look like an idiot wearing that style!

My son plays for a coach that is very traditional and an avid baseball historian. He expects the players to respect the uniform, the game, and his teammates. Very disciplined coach! His team has worn the flat bill for many years. You know immediately not to bend the bill when hats are issued. He comments that "this is the way the cap is made and you will not destroy its character. Each player also knows to remove their cap when someone is talking to them. Very respected program with 9 state titles in the last 15 years. Hopefully, no recruiters or scouts negatively perceive my son by the flat bill because for him it is now about the respect he has for his coach. It is nice to see him remove his cap when someone approaches him and when he enters a restaurant, unlike many adults who have curved bills. For me, I still curve mine.

When you say FLAT bill, do you mean COMPLETELY flat, straight across, or do you mean as they come from the factory....most BASEBALL hats (for teams, as oppposed to what you buy in a memorabilia or clothing store)come with an ever so slight curve to the bill.

Those who like FLAT bills, will actually take the bills and iron or put them under heavy books to make them completely flat. Until a few years ago, you didn't even see the completely flat billed hats in the stores, but you do now.

Wow, maybe it is because I havent been out of college that long but Im kind of shocked about the hatred for the flat bill. I played in a strict program (no facial hair, no hats in buildings, no hat on backwards, no jewelry, no wristbands, etc.) but our coach never said a word about flat bill caps. I didnt wear it like that but many of my teammates did, and they were some of the most straight-laced, hard working players on our team. Our ace was a flat-bill guy and was a 2 time All-American. I still remember other teams yelling "bend his bill" from the dugout. In my personal opinion, I dont find the flat bill to be "thug" and I think it is a separate deal from jewelry and long hair. I think it is more likely the players that you see with a flat bill may carry themselves in that manner.

I also hated the rule for everyone wears their pants the same way. Some guys wore their pants down, thats fine. I wore mine up. Didnt make me or them an individual or selfish. It made me comfortable. I felt slower when I wore my pantlegs down. Im all for old-school hard work but I think some coaches get carried away with the traditionalism. Let players be themselves a little bit. Its a game.

Clint, my son played for your son's HS coach this past summer on Team Georgia out in Oklahoma. He allowed any players that wanted to wear a flat bill cap, and those who didn't he never said a word. He was all about business and that was winning the tournament (which we came in 2nd to Texas).

In regards to eye-black. My son wore it his Sr. year whether he was at 3rd or on the mound. His coach never said a word. Younggun likened his eye-black to the hair on Samson. LOL.

Again, each Coach has their own preferences. All players should in the end respect what their Coach wants. IMO

I don't like the flat bills, but I haven't told any of my players they can't wear them. I do require them to wear their hat straight, not twisted around or tilted, but beyond that I leave it alone. As long as they're clean and neat, I let them do what they want with some of their style things, dumb looking or not. Of course, I don't coach high school baseball, just summer ball, and if I were coaching high school ball I don't know that I'd be as tolerant of their personal style choices.

I do believe summer ball is more laid back in some regards, while being very serious about our play between the lines. As long as my guys adhere to some basics, I don't worry too much about the other stuff even if I do think they look dumb. I give them a few verbal jabs about their look, but leave it at that if they want to keep it.

Peeps need to get a life if flat bill caps bug them. Caps are flat bill brand new off the shelf in a sporting goods store.

Who cares as long as they come to play.

Zomby....the style of your post kind of makes my point for me....