Forced to play in the summer on high school coaches team?

I guess I would choose the Administration route anyways, LOL. Most of us realize HS baseball does not get you recruited. I would have my son show up at all the games in case scouts do show up and have him talk to them in an attempt to take the show to him not the team or should I say coaches. If he is the stud on the team I would venture to say the coaches may ask him to come on team.

Oh, boy...
Don't understand coaches like this. What are the rules in CA? Finding this out will be your first step.

In FL, it is against FHSAA rules for a coach to make it mandatory for a player to participate in off-season baseball. In-season being from the first day of try-outs - generally MLK day - until the last day of the state finals. Even so, there are coaches who try to intimidate players into playing for their summer teams. I'm glad our coach isn't like that.

Someone from CA will help you with this.

Edit - if you have something in writing that says that you better not go to the administration...I'd take that straight to the administration! So many of these kinds of coaches have this power because we give it to them.

Don't know where you are in Calif. but I would talk to the coach and get the word from him. If the coaches are telling them not to go to the administration about threats, the coaches should be removed from the schools program and reported to the league and CIF.

I know in are area that head coaches can't have summer teams that that are only their schools players (at least before 2008). Most of the time an asst. coach will have a team open to all comers.

The advice given so far would work fine in an ideal world but the reality is that the best bet is to play for the HS team and try to work anything else in, if it can be done safely, around the HS schedule.

BTW, you could also try to find a completely anonymous route to get this to the administration but that's easier said than done.

The other route is to get virtually every parent to go along with resisting it. Not likely.

First the state of California has ruled that even “typical” team fees have to be made clear that they are voluntary only. This was a recent ruling and was in the paper within the past 2 months. The best advice is for parents to stay out the typical HS coach/player interactions, but with something like this parents need to step in. I tend to be very upfront on stuff like this, but in this case I think I would discuss it amongst some of the parents and then have several make anonymous phone call to the AD and let him/her know that this was going on. Let him know that you are withholding your name because of the coaches’ threats. I don’t even think I would tell my son about the call so he would not be influenced should the coach call out any players in public. Once the AD gets several calls he/she will have to take some action.

I would go the Administration route only as a last option. Before going nuclear its always best to start from the perspective that the coach has your son's best interest at heart and its a matter of communications and misunderstanding. Suggest you have your son have a conversation with the coach and have him tell coach that he's already committed to the summer team he's been playing with for a few years now. Suggest that maybe he could play as a substitute when he's available. That he's very excited about the upcoming spring season, etc etc.

Whatever it is he says, he should have the conversation and it should be a positive tone with the goal of how do we work out this problem together. Too many parents go from idle to blast off stage way too quickly in these tricky matters.
If the coach isn't agreeable after the conversation with your son, then it will be your turn to talk with him.

If and when you need to go the admin route if your son and you have handled yourselves properly during this process, you will be in a much better position at that time.

My guess is, he'll back down eventually.

Lastly, don't get into the posse mode; that is a group of parents going to talk to the coach. Nothing much good comes from that, particularly as far as your son's future goes. Deal with it as an individual matter.

Assuming everything said above is true, any resolution short of that coach being removed from any association with the team would be insufficient. He can stay with the school as a teacher, and he can run a travel team in his spare time if he wants, but he should absolutely not be allowed to run or even assist with the baseball team.

The reality is, no matter what assurances you might get, from now on the parents in the stands and the players in the dugout will be asking, "Is [name] not playing because of the travel team situation, or for legitimate reasons?"

Integrity, once cast away, is hard to get back.

I would do exactly as BOF says, but my letter would take pains to make the point that only firing will adequately cure the problem. Take care to be calm and persuasive, not to come across rabid and sounding like a crazy parent. But make it very clear what you expect to happen and why. I would also think it would be reasonable to state plainly that if that very appropriate action is not taken, you will most definitely report the school to the state high school league.

This kind of thing is EVIL, and it needs to be taken care of and pronto.

Very good advise!!!!

1. Don't give him one dime.
2. Make sure he knows you won't give him one dime.
3. Shine just enough light on his plan and it will quickly unravel.

good luck; I hope the guy did it with the best of intentions and that things will work out well for all concerned but I highly doubt that will be the outcome.

Get another parent worked up about it. Have them approach the AD.

Seriously, this happens. I hear that most play summer for the coach, some transferred to another school, and some try to play on travel teams on the down low and were benched.

HAHAHAHAHAH!!!! Laugh Way Out Loud...
Our parents would freak if the Spirit Pack exceeded $65 for the year.
You definitely must be at a private school where you're breathin' different air than we do... couldn't begin to advise.
(please don't take the private school comment too seriously

The first place to start, if you haven't already done so, is to talk to your son's summer coach about the new HS coach. He might have some insight on the guy, his hiring and/or the schools AD and/or some knowlgable advice on how to proceed. Its very difficult to give really good advice w/o knowing the coach and school. Is it possible the AD agreed to the summer team requirment and cost when he hired the guy?

I would also add, from past experince, getting a coach fired has has unforseen consequences with teamates/parents even if the coach was a total DB and the other players/parents knew it. Many parents seem to feel if you or your kid get the coach canned its their job to make your life difficult. i.e. my daughters HS coach was essentially fired midseason for sexual harrasment and I could not believe the c-r-a-p other players and parents said about/to my daughter. She eventually transferred because of it.

BTW, many AD's won't address most anonymus compliants, so if you want him gone/straightened out, you're going to have to speak up and take your lumps.

I'm not aware of any CIF rule against summer high school teams, or the requirement that a player must commit financially to a coach's summer team in order to be considered for varsity.

However, I would be astounded if the school administration permits this policy. And perhaps league or section rules prohibit it.

This is the sort of situation that I would ultimately treat as a "life lesson" opportunity. What the coach is trying to do is wrong, obviously wrong, and I would first ascertain if that really is the policy. I would not accept my son's asssertion that it is the policy, since he will prefer to avoid any confrontation which may occur in getting a clear understanding. $1800 is enough money that a parent clearly needs to understand the policy and to be permitted to discuss it with the cosch. And here's the life lesson: if the price of a parent's discussion of the policy with the coach is to not be on varsity, then my son would just have to accept it. Once the policy was made clear to me, I would straightforwardly tell the coach that I will discuss this with the high school administration. That's a second life lesson--a student may find these kinds of threats to be intimidating, but an adult shouldn't. My guess is the coach will soften his position once faced with exposure, but if not, then my son would have to live with it.

I don't want my kids growing up believing that they have to accept this kind of coercion.

This is illegal in CA! Pretty scary that a head coach would consider this. It can be an option, not mandatory.

Take a look at the California CIF website.

Good luck,

Lefty...

Sdlefty,
Help me out here. Where does the CIF website say this is illegal?

quote:

Please provide me some advice. The coaches have already said nobody better go to the administration or they will make their lives miserable until they graduate.

This situation sounds so incredulous that it's hard to believe it could be true! If it is true, and he followed through on his threat to the boys who did not pony up $ for his summer team (assuming your States high school by-laws allow him to coach a summer team , can't do it in our State), he WOULD be dealing with me on a very personal level, BEFORE I made it a legal matter.

Good luck.

I'm in San Diego CIF region. I believe it was an amendment down here. Let me research and get back to you.

I truly cannot believe that any person in their right mind thinks this is the way to operate. He is basically saying that his high school salary isn't enough so he's going to make money in the summer off this team. There is no way EACH player should be responsible for $1800 just to be on the team. If he carries 20 guys on the team that would be $36,000 - is he going to buy a charter bus to carry the team round? No amount of equipment, uniforms or hotels would cost that much.

My advice is stand up to this guy because jerks like him give coaches a bad name. It's bad enough this is immoral but it has to be illegal in some way.

These are huge red flags when he threatens spot on team, life made miserable and stuff like that if anyone tells on him. Besides stealing like crazy from his players it makes you wonder exactly what he will be doing in practice that he doesn't want people to know?

Is this guy young and new? I'm truly amazed this guy thinks this is ok to do.

If the scenario is exactly as you have described (by that I'm allowing that maybe your son has misunderstood something)...and the administration didn't stop it, I would take him out of that school.

Plain and simple.

quote:

Unfortunately, if he is put on JV or cut as is sometime threatened for doing his own thing then I guess that will radically effect his college future.

I doubt that it will affect his college future at all, assuming he is on a strong travel team that is providing exposure. It may seem odd, but while a high school coach who has credibility with college coaches can be a big asset to a talented player's college search, a coach who has low credibility (inexperience or, worse, a history of inaccurate appraisals) doesn't negatively affect the player. He's just a non-factor. Furthermore, the actual exposure coming from playing in high school is mostly confined to "buzz" among competing coaches and other baseball insiders. College coaches generally don't attend high school games unless the teams feature at least one "blue chipper". The "buzz" may be lost if he doesn't play varsity, but the travel team would largely make up for it.

However, not playing varsity will affect his enjoyment of the baseball season and many of the good aspects of high school sports.

quote:

The coaches have already said nobody better go to the administration or they will make their lives miserable until they graduate.

These kids have been instructed many many times not to complain to their parents or have their parents go to the administration.

Where have we heard this type of thing before? Perhaps regarding Bishop O'Malley and Father Donovan:

"Vatican: 1997 Irish abuse letter 'misunderstood'"

Associated Press – Wed Jan 19, 4:19 pm ET

VATICAN CITY – In a new round of damage control, the Vatican insisted Wednesday that a 1997 letter warning Irish bishops against reporting priests suspected of *** abuse to police had been "deeply misunderstood."

This may be a horrible parallel, but the coach is totally off base as he is threatening young men where he has a certain responsibility to protect.

Kokomojo, please keep your personal politics out of this. That has absolutely no parallel to a high school coach demanding that a player play summer ball on his team before he will be allowed to play baseball. Your pairing the two is very offensive. They have absolutely nothing in common.

I would demand a breakdown of what the 1800 dollars is going to give me as far as costs. If a coach is leveraging his position as a coach of a high school team into a way to make personal profit I am willing to bet that he can get into big trouble. Most school districts and states have big time rules covering such things.

3finger.. I agree.

Do you have a dugout club with officers? If so, I'd have them call an immediate meeting to discuss this matter and uncover all the facts, i.e. summer expenses, why so much, why the down payment, etc.

Our HS coach allowed thd Dugout club to raise and handle all monies. He never wanted to handle a red cent and only made his needs made at the beginning of each season to the Dugout club. He was always above reproach and I really liked that. As far as summer ball he always found out what the tournament fees were and based on that info advised the players what it would cost to play. It was normally around $100 a player. (local tourney's that could be reached by personal vehicles)

This coach is sending the message to young players that their money is the main criteria to play for him. Forget talent, hard work, loyalty, teamwork, love of the game, etc. "pay me your money and your on the team!"

Apparently this coach thinks all his players on the teams are affluent and they are exempt from the economy.

He can only hold you hostage if you allow him to.

Found this in an article.

It is illegal to charge mandatory fees for anything in California schools, (see below) except for transportation fees. The reality is that schools charge for them and the parents pay, because if they did not there would not be the sport. This is not necessarily relevant in this case, but good to know if you go talk to the administration.

If money for the program is an issue then start a booster club and work on ways to generate the $$. We raise around $20K per year for our program for field, infrastructure and coaches stipends.

Here is the background.

Influential ruling

Hartzell v. Connell had its origins in 1980, when the Santa Barbara High School District cut its budget by $1.1 million. Soon after, students were explicitly required to pay $25 per sport, and Barbara Hartzell, a mother of two students, filed a taxpayers’ action claiming the mandatory fee violated the free-school and equal-protection guarantees of the California Constitution.

In 1984, authoring the opinion of the California Supreme Court, Chief Justice Rose Elizabeth Bird ruled, “Once the community has decided that a particular educational program is important enough to be offered by its public schools, a student’s participation in that program cannot be made to depend upon his or her family’s decision whether to pay a fee or buy a toaster.”

I think you should PM someone on this site and have an outsider alert the AD of the school. UNETHICAL!

The coach is charging a fee to play summer ball, it's not for school ball. And, it's a reasonable rate if it includes coaching fees, tournament entry fees, etc. The coach is pushing the limits of the rules and setting up timing of decisions and payments to make it look more above board than it is.

I would make sure the written documents mysteriously show up on the AD's desk.

L3 (and everyone else), that's a great idea. Some of the advice isn't relevant as it's a private school but none the less, wrong is wrong. I will call an alumi and ask that they run this up the flag pole and see if the administration will look into it.

I will let everyone know what comes of this but I am not optimistic at all. Thanks for the support and advice.

I wouldn't sign your reenrollment paperwork for next year until this gets figured out. You may want to move to a different private school.

Wow. What is wrong with just saying we cannot afford this type of travel team but thanks for the opportunity?

Because it's not accurate?

The kid goes to a private school and already plays on "one of the top two programs in the area" (can't imagine it's materially less than $1800.

Texas - I only suggested that because the poster indicated in his first post that he could not afford it - did not want to donate to the program. See what he wrote. Sometimes people really struggle to give their kids a private education. So I am not sure I understand your response. I was trying to be helpful.

Does that really mean if you gave them $1800 the problem would go away, calisportsfan? I doubt it would. If it's really as bad as it sounds, I would look at a different private school and tell the AD and Head Master all about it on the way out the door.

This seems to creeping up a bit more here in SoCal. Most of HS coaches here are decent guys but as in life there are always a few bad apples. We have had coaches tell kids play with their summer team or get cut. One parent basically asked the coach if the team was part of the HS program. The coach said no. The parent than said thanks for offer but they will pass. The coach than said How will he know if he worthy of varsity. The parent than says so it is a part of the HS team. The coach was said it was somewhat a part of the HS program. The parent said he will pay any fee that covers the HS team during the HS season but will not give money for summer events and will take his chances. It works for him because he is a big time player. What about the guy just trying to crack the line up.

One thing that is really too bad is that knuckleheads like this tend to give HS coaches a bad name. Sometimes they all get lumped together.

We have what I consider to be the best HS coach I could have ever imagined. Assistant coaches too. Aside from being a great teacher of baseball (and math too), he is completely flexible in the summer/fall stuff...providing a solid summer program for those who want it yet letting those who want to venture out complete freedom to do so. And he'll even be happy to let you do a hybrid too.

It took me 4 sons to find him...but its been a beautiful thing and its no wonder that his teams happen to be incredibly successful too...ending last season ranked #1 in the nation by some outlets including Perfect Game and rivals.com.

Did I mention he's also a really 'good' person too?

Good luck in your meeting with the coach. A wise move.

I hope you do come back and share with us how things went for you.

The Aunt Bea blanket club will be on pins and needles til you come back!

quote:

Unfortunately, if he is put on JV or cut as is sometime threatened for doing his own thing then I guess that will radically effect his college future.

I doubt it very much. There's a player who moved up to the varsity outfield the year after my son graduated who's on the radar of many MLB teams and is a projected high draft pick and has a D1 scholly in a major program locked up if he goes to college.. This kid hasn't even made all-conference in HS and his statistics are somewhat pedestrian, which no way tell the story on how good this player is. He may be the best player in the state and a legitimate 5-tool player. Knowing that baseball program, it's extremely unlikely the HS program had anything to do with his exposure, but rather the summer teams he played on and also was selected to one of the area code teams last year.

Believe me, you don't need to play HS varsity baseball for exposure. Maybe in the past that wasn't the case but not today.

It's the summer teams. That's where the exposure is.

As for that HS coach who wants to extort $1800/per player for his team, I'd tell that coach to pound salt and if every parent in the baseball program isn't on board together to stop this guy, then he's gonna run all over all of you and will get his way. If that happens, then you can't blame the coach. Every parent should be all over this and in it together.

Californiasportsfan, I believe you are doing the right thing. You need to hear it directly from the coach. As others said, its not the end of the world if he doesn't play his senior year, at least in the next level. I know it means a lot to your son to be with his buddies. Our son got all his exposure on his summer team, had a couple of high prospects on it, one got drafted last year very high.

Good luck.