Freshman's parents

My experience is the dynamics of the HS game are different and it takes time to adjust. Players who don't play for 3, 4, 5 games, kids handling the coaching relationship, the politics all to often involved....it's a different animal than most parents have seen. Took some time for me to adjust to it too!

It is probably because of the politics involved. A kid who plays varsity that couldn't make JV. The coach changing a delivery, a swing, a throw without ever seeing a kid in a game. No bullpens between games, no pitching practice whatsoever. No cutoffs, no relays. The coach removing a kid from a game because he is pitching tomorrow and then not pitching him. Or could it be that the competition just isn't there at the freshman level. Or maybe a kid striking out 2+ batters per inning and still having to prove he's up to the competition. How about the kids that play every inning because they play football.
This is what we've run into so far and what do I tell my son. Be respectful, keep working hard, they will notice and your time will come. Bottom line is though I will keep it all inside and never ever say anything to a coach. They are doing their best and if that's true it is all we can ask for.

A lot of these players' parents aren't out of Little League yet --- everybody gets their innings, 'stars' play more than one position (pitchers definitely do), life is fair, blah, blah, blah. This 'talk to the coach on the kid's behalf' tack worked there, so it should work in hs.

I'd recommend addressing this unfortunate tendancy in the pre-season parents meeting. Be blunt; this ain't LL. Delineate all you do for the team, and list the jobs parents can do if they want to 'help the team', noting all the ways complaining hinders the team, and the players on it.

Yeah....ours wanted to collect for a coaches gift. Say what?

Or am I just being a crusty old man?

Loss of controll is a ***** aint it?

Coach May, Summed it up right there.

Parent's have no control, And it's killing them.

Parent's be as positive as you possibly can be.
Baseballs a marithon.
Not a sprint.
EH

the first rule of coaching. when parents want to talk to the coach make sure the player is there as well.they tend to not be as critical, and if they do say something out of line now the player knows what you go through. and they have the most influence over mom and dad.

I think its a tough transition for a lot of parents that were involved in youth sports. Parents have been going to practices and talking to their youth coaches for years. When the kids get to high school, all of a sudden your not involved. Our coaches set out the ground rules at the beginning of the season. No minimum playing time, no questions from parents about playing time, and no talking to coaches immediately after the game. Our team is lucky to have good coaches, a nice group of parents, and a great group of kids. We have been lucky to have that combination for the last three seasons, and it sure makes baseball more fun.

Sounds to me that this could be a case of expectations and clarity. If a coach has a meeting with the parents and clearly states his goals, expectations, rules, approach, etc. then there shouldn't be an issue. If a coach believes he shouldn't have to do this, then expect to hear it from the parents.

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Originally posted by bcb3:
I think its a tough transition for a lot of parents that were involved in youth sports. Parents have been going to practices and talking to their youth coaches for years. When the kids get to high school, all of a sudden your not involved. Our coaches set out the ground rules at the beginning of the season. No minimum playing time, no questions from parents about playing time, and no talking to coaches immediately after the game. Our team is lucky to have good coaches, a nice group of parents, and a great group of kids. We have been lucky to have that combination for the last three seasons, and it sure makes baseball more fun.

Exactly! Things change. Once you get used to the change, it's not a big deal.

We have a meeting with the players after the cuts are made every year and the teams have been selected. They are told up front that if they have an issue with playing time or any other issues to come to the coaches and speak their mind. If they are not satisfied with what they hear they can have their parent or parents request a meeting and the player parents and coaches will sit down with them and discuss any issues they have. Players are told what their role on the team is and how they can expand that role. If the player can not except their role on the team then they need to make some decisions. If the parents can not except their sons role on the team then they as well have to make some decisions. A coach has to worry about all his players and his team as well. Some parents are only concerned with one player. When a kid gets to HS it is time to understand that his performance will dictate his role and nothing else. Alot of times some parents have a hard time dealing with the fact they have no more controll on how much and where there son plays. The best thing to do is let your son grow up and earn his playing time. And let him learn to stand up for himself and make good decisions. JMHO

Are those pre season speeches that coaches give before every season in some type of hand book because they all sound the same? Only thing is that most of the coaches do not follow there own rules.

Do players really get to earn their spots? No

Are certain players given a large window as far as talent and attitude? Yes

Does the coach treat all parents the same? No

I finally figured it out, after watching a show on ESPN yesterday. It was called “before the bigs” it was the story about Brett Tomko. After watching this show I realized that H.S. coaches are just H.S coaches and they can not evaluate a player’s talent any better then any JOE BLOW off the street. If a player wants it bad enough and really has the talent then someone in the higher level where it really counts will see it.

I know Tomko’s H.S coach and boy is that guy has an ego. This coach gives the same speech that Coach May said that he had and also tells the kids if you do not make the Frosh team do not bother coming out next year and maybe join the drama club instead. IF Brett Tomko listened to this coach he would not be pitching for the Dodgers right now.

Speaking as a dad of a player that gets to play in games it has nothing to do about having control it’s about coaches who think that they are Gods and that kind of attitude runs down the chain of command starting with Varsity coach then the JV coaches and to the bottom of the chain the freshmen coaches.

Maybe that is why you hear it from the lower levels of H.S baseball programs because the parents have not figured that out yet.

dad


What level does your son play at?

quote:

Do players really get to earn their spots? No

Are certain players given a large window as far as talent and attitude? Yes

Does the coach treat all parents the same? No

In far too many cases, true, true and true!!

He is a Freshmen who just got pulled up to Varsity for a tournament. they needed hitters so he is D.H.

my oldest son played for the school that Tomko played for which is a different H.S that my 14 year old is at. but same politics.

951dad, the problem with most Coaches, yes most Coaches, on all levels is, they don't know how to teach hitting, catching and throwing.....

So, they learn the rulebook and argue with umpires.....They think that makes 'em look like they know what they're doing......

Now, as a parent, if you expose 'em, your kid sits!!

So, parents for the most part, kiss-up to the Coach and only talk about him when he can't hear 'em!!

Now, there are a few exceptions, but the odds of you getting that exception are miniscule!!

quote:

Originally posted by 951dad:

Do players really get to earn their spots? No

Are certain players given a large window as far as talent and attitude? Yes

Does the coach treat all parents the same? No

I finally figured it out, after watching a show on ESPN yesterday. It was called “before the bigs” it was the story about Brett Tomko.

I know Tomko’s H.S coach and boy is that guy has an ego.

Speaking as a dad of a player that gets to play in games it has nothing to do about having control it’s about coaches who think that they are Gods and ...

I'd say hang em all! **** coaches! 951dad you and I are the only ones that really know how to do their jobs and if no one believe us, just ask us!

BTW, never been referred to as a "God" before. I'm thinking that the real deal might not like it. Plan on ducking some of those thunder bolts the next time I'm outside. LOL!

Also, BTW, I loved the Tomko scenerio. So typical of all of us.

From outside the fence, my experience is that the frosh and JV coaches just dont get the field time with players - the Varsity is either playing or practicing - it gets worse during region play - overstated for sure but true. I have never seen a HS coach at any level who wasnt a baseball guy.

Plus, all of us parents are experts

This certainly is not always true, but I've noticed that all the coaches that knew what they were doing and did an awesome job of coaching played my kids a lot in key positions. Then there were some coaches that I didn't care for who didn't have clue when it came to knowing the game and utilizing the talent they had available, these guys were playing people out of position while my kid who was way better was sitting on the bench!

Sheesh IB, you sound like a caricature of the type of parent these coaches complain about. "The coaches who played my kids and key situations did an awesome job" and "I don't care for the coaches who played other kids before mine." Listen to yourself.

Hey, I resemble that remark!
But think about it, go to a ball game and see how often this is true.

Coaches . please help me to understand! My sons coach is one of the very best H.S. Coaches anywhere.
He works harder, smarter and has loads of leadership talent and charisma. He is a master of defense and game situations.
The problem is he does in fact paralyze his own team in the box with way too much mech analisys and dictates the play way too much. I love this guy but he is unaproachable by a parent.
Any suggestions?

Around here most high school programs are a bleepin joke, teachers that are not baseball people collecting a paycheck.There are some god coaches with year after year respectable and most times winning programs.I took my boys to see a jv game tonight and it was brutal.Found out from the catchers Dad we have a coach that teaches at a different district? Anyway my 14yo says to me Dad I think our summer team would kill them! Trouble is he's probably right! I know when my boys get there, I'll be anxiously awaiting the end of the school year when the real ball starts. No offense to any of you other coaches, but what I witnessed tonight was not baseball.

You people have created some great excuses for your kids. Now put them all together and give your kid all those excuses and see where it gets him. I love the way you paint with this wide brush. All HS coaches! Most HS coaches! Yeah that always tells me what time it is. Time for me to leave this thread alone and realize that we have a bunch of people here that have no clue.

It is kind of like the way cops get used to dealing with criminals all the time and some of them end thinking that everyone who isn't a cop is a criminal.

Coaches see so many parents who don't have a realistic view of their players that they think no parent has a realistic view.

The reality is that many freshman and JV coaches are still learning their trade and they don't always get it right off the bat. There are also usually parents who have much stronger baseball backgrounds out there, though those aren't usually the ones who will be complaining.

You really have to look at each situation on it's own merits. There is bias at times and there are clueless parents.

I wasn't REALLY talking about myself, just what I've noticed in general from parents at the games.

As the parent of a freshman player I thought I would add my two cents. First a little background. My son attends one of the largest high schools in Georgia with a baseball program that went well into the playoffs last year. Everything we heard about the program as outsiders mirrored many of the negative comments expressed in this post. The program is political, booster donations get you playing time, the coaches plays favorites, if you don’t play for the right travel team you will be an unknown and not have a chance and on and on. My son was an outsider, he played on a team not affiliated with the school, was a complete unknown. Well guess what, he made the team and has caught all but 4 innings this year. I can also say he has learned more about playing the catcher position in the last three months than he has in all the years playing travel added together. The coach layed out very clearly how he runs the program at the beginning of the year decisions are made in this order – School, Program, Team, Individual. I can honestly say he has stayed true to this all year. I have watched my share of practices this year (all three teams practice together) and cannot tell who is a starter and who never leaves the bench based on the practices. The coaches treat every player the same. I also have a realistic view of my son’s abilities. I expect he will play JV next year and that may be the end of the road. Eventually his lack of the athletic gene will catch up to him.

Did the “known” kids get the benefit of the doubt. Who knows, all I can say is my son did all that was requested of him before the season – conditioning, weight training as an elective, ect. He shows up early every day and stays late when he can. He follows the rules, does as he is told, applies what he is taught and keeps his grades in order and it worked out for him. Do I agree with the way everything is done – No. I wish the freshmen got to hit more, but I also understand the program is not about the freshman team it is about the varsity team and developing players for the varsity team. Any issues I have with the program deal with coaching styles not baseball knowledge, teaching ability ect.

In this program, as it should be, the best player will play. The senior starting catcher for this year is now in the outfield and a young underclassmen was moved up to and has caught the last 10 or so varsity games.

I cannot say if our experiences are typical or not. However, my son almost did not try out this year due to the “reputation” of the program. We would not allow him to use this as an excuse. The best part of the experience, my son had to do something by himself with no support from the parents and no safety net. He has matured beyond my wildest expectations and is thriving in the environment.

So coaches, if you do it right, people do notice and appreciate it.

quote:

A lot of these players' parents aren't out of Little League yet --- everybody gets their innings, 'stars' play more than one position (pitchers definitely do), life is fair, blah, blah, blah. This 'talk to the coach on the kid's behalf' tack worked there, so it should work in hs.

I think this is the number 1 reason. Everybody plays in LL, why not here.

quote:

Sounds to me that this could be a case of expectations and clarity. If a coach has a meeting with the parents and clearly states his goals, expectations, rules, approach, etc. then there shouldn't be an issue.

Doesn't always work, parents will still have an issue and complain.

quote:

Are those pre season speeches that coaches give before every season in some type of hand book because they all sound the same? Only thing is that most of the coaches do not follow there own rules.

How many coaches have you been involved with that you can say most coaches?

quote:

From outside the fence, my experience is that the frosh and JV coaches just dont get the field time with players - the Varsity is either playing or practicing - it gets worse during region play - overstated for sure but true. I have never seen a HS coach at any level who wasnt a baseball guy.

Plus, all of us parents are experts

I agree. I say fire all the coaches and let the parents coach.

quote:

Coaches . please help me to understand! My sons coach is one of the very best H.S. Coaches anywhere.
He works harder, smarter and has loads of leadership talent and charisma. He is a master of defense and game situations.
The problem is he does in fact paralyze his own team in the box with way too much mech analisys and dictates the play way too much. I love this guy but he is unaproachable by a parent.
Any suggestions?

So whats the problem? He works hard, is smart, has leadership master of game situations. Why do you need to approach him? because you think he is paralyzing the team?

That's a great post freshmandad.

Your son is gonna be fine.................

Sometimes is takes awhile for the athletic gene to reveal itself...............

I am also a freshman dad. I would think that most people on this board their kids played select, travel, competitive? Whatever you like to call it. If they played little league there is a huge difference and that may be the issue.
A brief example about 3 years ago playing fall ball I had a parent tell me he didn't know this type of baseball existed. His son was an all star in LL and he couldn't break the starting line-up in a fall ball league against younger kids.
There are good parents and bad. There are good coaches and bad. Bottom line is everyone is trying to do what is best. The parents want their kids to play because they think their kid is the best. The coach puts what he feels is the best team on the field. He wants to win.
There is no right and wrong it's a matter of opinion. Parents should not get involved with coaches it is their sons responsibility to sit down with the coach (not before,after or during a game) and ask questions. Not about playing time but about what can I DO TO IMPROVE. Be specific, such as running, throwing, fielding, you may not like the answer but at least you'll have a better perspective of how the coach sees you.

FreshmanDad isnt it great? Your kid not only is working hard at the game he loves and getting better but HE is doing it! Things have a way of working themselves out. Sometimes if we just get out of the way and dont screw it up our kids do just fine. That was a great post. Im glad your son is in a great baseball environment. Good luck the rest of the season.

FreshmanDad

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I also have a realistic view of my son’s abilities. I expect he will play JV next year and that may be the end of the road. Eventually his lack of the athletic gene will catch up to him.

Trust me a kids body and abilitys can change a lot in 3 years.
Sometimes even us parent's can't judge are kids talents Good are Bad. Were to close to the situation.
You'll be surprised at what can happen if you want it bad enough.
HS is just part of what needs to be done to be a ball player.
EH

So true EH. We have a Junior this year that was for better words just not a very good player coming in to our program. We kept him his Freshman year (we dont cut freshman) feeling that he was never going to make it in our program past his Freshman season. He showed us a tremendous work ethic in the off season. He was always wanting to stay after practice and work on his hitting and he was always the last guy to leave our off season work outs. Now he is starting at first base and hitting .320 through 16 games. He has put himself in a posistion with some more hard work to play at the next level. Its amazing what a kid with a great attitude and work ethic can achieve. Never give up on your dreams.

It has taken me almost 40 years to finally figure it out and I have been around baseball most of my life as a player, coach and parent of two baseball players. My fourteen year old has been playing since he was four and my twenty one year old started later in his life but left baseball to play football. My fourteen year old played L.L, PONY and he played travel ball for four years before going to high school. My Dad played semi pro ball back in the fifties and I can not even count the times that we have sat around and talked about the game and the personalities that we have come across. And now I have a nephew through Marriage that plays pro ball with the Oakland A’s. And we have talked about his experiences a lot at Christmas and holidays. My job that I have been doing for nine years has me dealing with a lot of H.S coaches so this is where I draw my opinion from. Even with that it is only my opinion. Enough said about how I came to my opinion of good coaches and bad coaches.

I think the reason it took me so long to figure it out was that I always tried to figure why a certain player played and why another player with the same ability or in some cases better ability sat on the bench. What a waste of time.

If some of you are wondering if I have this opinion about coaches because my son does not play, the answer is that he does play, he does not play in ever game but he does play. And he is even getting a chance to play for the Varsity this week in a tournament during spring break. After the week is over he will be moved back down to the Freshmen team where he will most likely go back to the same routine playing a few innings, D.H. and that is fine with us. At least he still has the love for the game.

So after all this BLAAH, BLAAH, BLAAH this is what I have figured out. It does not matter what a parent does or does not do for a program or what type of coach he gets, or if he plays in ever inning or if he sits ever inning. It really comes down to three things and these three things most come from the player.

1. A dream
2. The drive to succeed no matter what hurtles he has to cross ( bad parents, bad coaches)
3. And natural ability and love for the game of baseball.

Bottom line is if it is in the cards the cream will always raise to the top.

One more thought for the coaches, Worry about putting the best team out on the field and passing on the knowledge, forget about the green infields, stadium seating, and how well you look in your uniform.

Teach baseball so that we can produce more American born players in the big leagues. The other poor countries have figured it out now it is our turn.

This is only my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by 951dad:
It really comes down to three things and these three things most come from the player.

1. A dream
2. The drive to succeed no matter what hurtles he has to cross ( bad parents, bad coaches)
3. And natural ability and love for the game of baseball.

Bottom line is if it is in the cards the cream will always raise to the top.

One more thought for the coaches, Worry about putting the best team out on the field and passing on the knowledge, forget about the green infields, stadium seating, and how well you look in your uniform.

Teach baseball so that we can produce more American born players in the big leagues. The other poor countries have figured it out now it is our turn.

This is only my opinion.

Very true on what it takes to be a player. My opinion on coaching comes from doing so for a year or two. I'm sure that I've been accused of playing favorites, wanting to lose, not knowing what I am doing, etc. In fact, it just happened this last week. LOL! Perhaps after I've coached for a longer period of time, I will overcome all of this.

As a coach most of my life I can only speak for myself. I have put less talented kids on the field in front of more talented players numerous times. Why?

#1- Gamers. Kids that may not be as talented but produce.
#2- Attitude. Talented kids that do not work hard in practice will not be rewarded with playing time ahead of not as talented kids that work their butts off and deserve what they have earned.
#3- Intangibles. More talented kids that can not or will not hit a cut off man. More talented kids that can not or will not get down a sac bunt. More talented kids that will not run everything out regardless of the situation. More talented kids that do not put the team ahead of themselves. The list goes on and on.
#4- More talented kids that do not show up on time everyday. More talented kids that do not take care of business in the classroom. More talented kids that act like clowns in the classroom or off the field.
#5- More talented kids that can make the spectacular play but can not make the routine play routinely.
#6- Many more I can continue to list but it is endless.

Talent is only one part of the equation to a team. A team is made up of parts that must all mesh together. A player is made up of many parts. Talent , Attitude , Baseball IQ.

Sometimes as hard as this might be to understand "Sometimes the most talented player is not the best player". Players that are maybe not as talented can overcome this fact with "A great winning attitude , great fundementals , and an High Baseball IQ".

These reasons and more are the reason that at least in our program the most talented player is not always on the field ahead of his competition. The truly great HS players combine talent with all the above positive attributes.

Im not going to have a kid on the field that doesnt work hard. Will not be fundementally sound. Will not sacrifice for the team ahead of his own personal goals. And sit a kid that will. We have won alot of games playing the kids that will and now the ones that wont dont bother coming out. Talent without these attributes is a cancer that will destroy a team and a program.

I have always said I would rather lose with great kids that are team players and want to do it the right way , than win with kids that dont. So far it hasnt been a problem.

Coach May...you are right. Play the best 9, not the 9 best.

Coaches don't feel bad. Baseball is not the only sport that has to listen to this type of talk. Our school has won back to back state football chapionships. Basketball made the regional finals, and baseball, we are currently leading our district at 8-1......yet those sitting outside the fence still seem to think we are not doing it the 'right' way, and they know how it should be done.

Coach May,

It sounds like you are one of the few really good coaches who teach the game and that I congratulate you and thank you for a job well done. Everything you mentioned is what I meant as talent like attitude, physical ability, and student of the game. A real teammate and who still sits while others play with bad attitudes, blowing off signs and committing error after error.

But again it really all catches up at the end and the cream raises to the top.