Frustration setting in

When you have a parent who played college sports (as is true of many here), you know how to train you sons, or how to find appropriate trainers and instructors.  When you don't have that kind of parent, you do tend to hope that the summer travel team coaches will instruct the players during the summer.  It took us a few years to realize that that wasn't necessarily the case.  Had some coaches who didn't seem to want to help even when asked.  It was frustrating.

In fact, this is something I always wondered about.  You can go to an instructor and work in a cage on, say, batting.  Can discuss the swing, the mechanics, etc.  However, the other dimension of batting is what your approach at the plate is, how you are seeing and reacting to actual pitches in games.  If the instructor doesn't see you in games, then who should be helping you with actual plate appearances?  I always assumed it would be the coaches.  Didn't always seem to be the case, though.

@anotherparent posted:

When you have a parent who played college sports (as is true of many here), you know how to train you sons, or how to find appropriate trainers and instructors.  When you don't have that kind of parent, you do tend to hope that the summer travel team coaches will instruct the players during the summer.  It took us a few years to realize that that wasn't necessarily the case.  Had some coaches who didn't seem to want to help even when asked.  It was frustrating.

In fact, this is something I always wondered about.  You can go to an instructor and work in a cage on, say, batting.  Can discuss the swing, the mechanics, etc.  However, the other dimension of batting is what your approach at the plate is, how you are seeing and reacting to actual pitches in games.  If the instructor doesn't see you in games, then who should be helping you with actual plate appearances?  I always assumed it would be the coaches.  Didn't always seem to be the case, though.

A very good point. I played softball in HS and throughout college many years ago. I taught my son the fundamentals of baseball when he started playing around 10yo. Up until last year I could continue to teach but now he is in another dimension.
He has a pitching coach in the off season and I rely on his coaches (mainly hs) to help him through the next level. I read books and watch videos to give him thought provoking analytics but his level is above my ability. 
I just bought the “Baseball Playbook” by Ron Polk- my mind is blown by what goes into it all! But I have picked up some very valuable things and son and I have been discussing them.

He says for the remaining summer season he will continue to build on his skills and performance in the games he is in. He does a showcase in early August and we will look for teams to tryout for fall and next summer that are willing and dedicated to the players and taking them to the next level. I have gathered a list and son has contacted those coaches for tryout dates. 👍

Before picking a team for the 17u level it’s important to identify what level college prospect is the player. Then you neeed to find a team that fits his level. You don’t want him “showing” himself to the wrong teams at the wrong level at the wrong venues. 

He needs a skilled third party to assess his prospect level.  Then he needs to make a list of schools to target in his skill level. Start with conferences. Then figure out what schools in the conference are the right academic, baseball, financial, social and cultural fit. Then he needs to find a 17u team that will help him get in front of those schools with coaches who can sell him to those schools. The list can be fifty colleges. Some schools won’t be interested. He’ll lose interest in some schools.

The best way for a player to get recruited is his coach calls a college program, tells them he has a player they need to see at XYZ tournament. If the coach has credibility the college program sends a coach for a look. Now the player doesn’t need to make himself seen. He just has to live up to the promotion his coach gave.

@RJM posted:

Before picking a team for the 17u level it’s important to identify what level college prospect is the player. Then you neeed to find a team that fits his level. You don’t want him “showing” himself to the wrong teams at the wrong level at the wrong venues. 

He needs a skilled third party to assess his prospect level.  Then he needs to make a list of schools to target in his skill level. Start with conferences. Then figure out what schools in the conference are the right academic, baseball, financial, social and cultural fit. Then he needs to find a 17u team that will help him get in front of those schools with coaches who can sell him to those schools. The list can be fifty colleges. Some schools won’t be interested. He’ll lose interest in some schools.

The best way for a player to get recruited is his coach calls a college program, tells them he has a player they need to see at XYZ tournament. If the coach has credibility the college program sends a coach for a look. Now the player doesn’t need to make himself seen. He just has to live up to the promotion his coach gave.

Great points! Thanks. We do know he is not D1 level. Maybe more of a D3, possibly a D2. I think with another 6 months of weight training and off season pitching lessons, he could get to a D1 prospect. He does commit himself and work hard and is dedicated to always improving himself. He has goal and timelines. He loves challenges and doesn’t look for the easy road.

Good luck to your son meads!  Hope he finds the right team for next year!

@RJM is on point with all that. Not all programs are about development either. Some in our area just collect checks. You need to go to an appropriate leveled team with the appropriate training and events.

Just this week we (17s) were at 18U WWBA. Team came in from CO and brought 13 guys. It was 13-0 after 3. They didn't want to invoke the run rule to let their guys keep "playing". I sort of get that, given the cost and time commitment of the tourney, but we scored 11 in the next inning and that was with holding guys back on base.  Won 24-0. That was an expensive trip for that team and parents. But WHY? They didn't get any "good" looks at an event like that. All the scouts would return to the stands and talk amongst themselves when they would take the field and/or they would film our guys batting. I felt bad for them.

If you travel to big events you have to come prepared. We were on another regional travel team last summer and we came to 16U WWBA with 13 guys and not enough pitchers to go deep. The parents were talking about playing to win vs playing to show.  We were there to "show" and not to win. You can't with 13 guys in a huge tournament like that. The program did what it said it would do, "get your son to be seen and in front of college scouts". Which was helpful for a lot of our boys. We were competitive, just didn't have the pitching depth to survive. A lot of the guys started conversations with schools because of that event. Mission accomplished. 

Just because you're paying money for a travel team doesn't mean they're going to develop, maybe they just travel. Private instruction is key, if you can afford it and keep up with it or be lucky enough to find a team that does both. They're aren't many. We have a lot of programs in our area that prey on Parent's Hope, don't develop, and collect checks. We know to avoid those places. 

HS ball is different in different parts of the country and states. TX for example has good HS ball in some areas and bad in others. HS Ball in our area is meh and we don't get much if any instruction at our HS. (and that is OK as we know that and plan accordingly). Our coach doesn't get involved in recruiting much (which is OK, and we know that up front). Not fair to put that kind of pressure on someone that doesn't do that or want to.  So we found a travel team that did a little instruction, but was competitive and traveled. We utilized HS for what it is for us which is Reps not development. Reps to get in shape and stay healthy but prepare for summer ball.

Our local travel team doesn't travel much out of state and my son wanted to get East to be seen by more schools than TX and surrounding states. So in the Fall when they weren't going to Ft. Meyers for the 2021 WWBA and Jupiter for the 2020 we asked around and sent videos and metrics to the national travel teams and are VERY HAPPY on East Cobb Astros. Great organization and great coaching and they travel and show very well. Have lots of exposure and great relationships with Coaches and scouts. It couldn't have worked out better. They guys all get along and are having a lot of fun playing great baseball.

Hopefully everyone behaves and we can keep playing. PG is going gang busters in GA, FL, and AL and plans to continue. If school goes virtual again, they're going to keep hosting tourneys, as long as they're allowed. 

Yes they make money but they also put out a good product. 

Find a good team that is a good fit for your son and best of luck. Everyone has a shot at playing at lots of levels and all those coaches are hungry for players for their teams. k

@meads posted:

Great points! Thanks. We do know he is not D1 level. Maybe more of a D3, possibly a D2. I think with another 6 months of weight training and off season pitching lessons, he could get to a D1 prospect. He does commit himself and work hard and is dedicated to always improving himself. He has goal and timelines. He loves challenges and doesn’t look for the easy road.

Unless a kid is a pro prospect (he will be told, not declare himself one) don’t worry about level of play. D1 isn’t for everyone. Give academics the most consideration. Find the best fit for the best college experience. A friend’s son played for a D3 HA national champion. The dog pile looked just as fun as the CWS. Then he went on to a Wall Street career.

Some great advice here from some people who know what they are talking about. 

My son (2023) was asked to guest play earlier this summer by one of if not the best team in the area. He played well both defensively and offensively. I would argue he’s a better fielder than 4 of their 6 MIF and just as good if not better than their C. The big difference though, my son is 135 and those kids are 150-200+ and a couple D1 commits.  While my son had more hits than most of them, his hits were singles or doubles down the line. Their outs were fly balls to the warning track. 

Most of the kids on that roster are being recruited by D1 schools. My son just doesn’t fit that profile yet. He used the experience to motivate himself to work harder than ever off the field to add the muscle needed to fit in. It will take a while, but if he doesn’t make it, it will not be due to a lack of effort  

Just a quick update: so DS was asked to pitch for a tournament in Louisville for another team. We cleared a schedules and went. He didn’t start, but pitched the last 3 innings striking out 5, allowing 4 hits and 1 run- after the game several people came up to him and told what a great job he did and the infield umpire stopped us in the parking lot to shake his hand and said he did a really great job. 👍😆 so are least we know he can hang with the more elite/ bigger teams.

Since then, his coaches have made comments (joking to him that he sucks, that he can’t throw 3 consecutive strikes in a row...) DS just laughs along with them and says, “mom I’m not sure if they are trying to make me mad so I work harder than I already do or they are trying to push me away?” Either way we are gone! 😂 no looking back! 
We are looking at 5 different teams to tryout for. He has 1 game and 1 tournament left for the summer then it “bye Felicia” 👍

@meads posted:

Since then, his coaches have made comments (joking to him that he sucks, that he can’t throw 3 consecutive strikes in a row...) DS just laughs along with them and says, “mom I’m not sure if they are trying to make me mad so I work harder than I already do or they are trying to push me away?” Either way we are gone! 😂 no looking back! 
We are looking at 5 different teams to tryout for. He has 1 game and 1 tournament left for the summer then it “bye Felicia” 👍

I am constantly reminded how many life lessons can be learned playing baseball.  Resiliency is one of them.  Figuring out how to think about, and gracefully deal with, crappy coaches will help your son in so many other situations in life. 

Help him take care in picking his next team, meads, but most of all, make sure his next coaches believe in him and want to help him with his dream of playing college ball. 

Let us know how it goes.

Interesting stories. 2.5 years ago my GS was selected for the best travel team in the state. He was 5 6" and 135 lbs and the worst player on that team. But he played a season with them and saw what was possible. All those guys are D1 studs. Got him a pitching coach that plays for the Nats, a hitting coach that trains the Mets, and got into the weight room. Last summer he threw 85mph and was still small. 6 mos later he is 6 ft 200 lbs, same foot speed but at 92 mph fb and 80 mph cb.

He jumped almost all this D1 guys in PG and is Now a D1 commit 2021!

It is all about the work!

@LuckyCat posted:

I am constantly reminded how many life lessons can be learned playing baseball.  Resiliency is one of them.  Figuring out how to think about, and gracefully deal with, crappy coaches will help your son in so many other situations in life. 

Help him take care in picking his next team, meads, but most of all, make sure his next coaches believe in him and want to help him with his dream of playing college ball. 

Let us know how it goes.

Definitely true. We all have crappy coaches, crappy bosses, etc., and there are lessons to be learned from surviving that. Of course there IS the difference is that we're paying the coach to be crappy to our kids, while at least the crappy boss (or the company) is paying us. Funny how that works.

Yep frustration setting in. Great topic title. Read it all. This is what I learned:

We paid greatly......to be seen....where recruiters were paid to see us.......where winning  a game was never the goal in a 'team' format......in a tournament of team members competing to win some Non scoreboard related measurables as an individual..........cause that's what the recruiters for a college baseball team want to see.........and it takes exactly 7 games and a weeks time to accomplish this........and it all must be repeated next week, month, or up coming 'big' event trip.......all of course after we get back home an take another $1000ish+ dollars of lessons or find the next biggest and best-est promoted 'team' to pay (errr join) up with.

Got it!!!

1.) The whole system is devoid from the real game of baseball. Very few of you actually love baseball.

2.) This industry is either bleeding you dry while dangling dreams, or you really don't care what the cost is as its not relevant to what you are buying.

3.) College baseball and its recruiters are increasingly complicit in the industry scam.

ShowballS: “Very few of you actually love baseball.”

All experience posts are appreciated. That’s how we on this board learn to help our players and to be prepared.

We are here because “we love baseball”, support our sons and daughters aspirations, and frankly, care about other people in similar situations. If I can reduce pain other people may go through... I post.

Love baseball...

My son played Legion ball and continued his rehab the summer after senior year. He said while the play didn’t come close to travel until tournament time it was fun to play again with the priority being winning the game.

His 17u team played to win. But it was with everyone getting adequate exposure.

He said the same thing in 13u looking back at LL all stars. We played to win in 13u. But if you didn’t win the tournament there was another next week. In LL all stars it was win and advance or go home for the summer.

Funny story and maybe a little off topic- sorry OP.  My 2022's team was in Ft. Myers a couple weeks ago.  We were playing one of those MLB team name "scout" teams.  Late in the game we were down a run or two and needed some base runners, so our batter dropped down a bunt for a base hit.  Their third baseman couldn't make the play.  So guess what, next batter dropped one down for another hit.  And, next kid shortened up to sac bunt but the pitch was a ball so he pulled it back.  At that point their parents started yelling at us to swing the bats because this is show ball.  It wasn't just one parent, it was a chorus of them. They were playing to show and we were playing to win.

@Opus X posted:

Funny story and maybe a little off topic- sorry OP.  My 2022's team was in Ft. Myers a couple weeks ago.  We were playing one of those MLB team name "scout" teams.  Late in the game we were down a run or two and needed some base runners, so our batter dropped down a bunt for a base hit.  Their third baseman couldn't make the play.  So guess what, next batter dropped one down for another hit.  And, next kid shortened up to sac bunt but the pitch was a ball so he pulled it back.  At that point their parents started yelling at us to swing the bats because this is show ball.  It wasn't just one parent, it was a chorus of them. They were playing to show and we were playing to win.

Who won? 

Unfortunately, not us.

Do the “Scout” teams have any actual affiliation to the corresponding MLB team? The closest I’ve seen is an actual MLB scour was involved with the team. There are a few others where I can’t find any connection at all

In California during the 1980's I coached the Chicago Cubs Scout team which included Kenny Williams, now President of the Chicago White Sox. We played the Junior Colleges included the famous Sac State. Our games were 16 innings.

This was very competitive baseball and included only the best HS players in Northern California. 10-12 pro scouts each game.

Bob

Most all of them are connected in some form with the club they represent either by money or scouts.  My son played for KC Royals scout team for two years.  They were fully invested.  Practiced at the K and other fields owned by them.  They provided coaches, uniforms, trainers, and all expenses except travel.  We paid for flights and they paid for everything else including meals.  One of the best experiences ever.  The players on that team were all P5 guys and HS draft guys.  3 were freshmen all americans this year. 

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

Do the “Scout” teams have any actual affiliation to the corresponding MLB team? The closest I’ve seen is an actual MLB scour was involved with the team. There are a few others where I can’t find any connection at all

Our experience was very similar to what PitchingFan and Consultant describe although our most direct experience was 8-10 years ago and it seems things have been watered down a bit in more recent years.

When son played, his team was run by an area scout, as were most or all of the other teams.  Quite a few he played with  and against are on MLB rosters now.  It was fairly common for rosters to hold 30-40+ players and they would come and go throughout the day's double header, based on what innings they were scheduled to play.  It was definitely a "show your skills" environment more than "win the game" one and yes, bunting was generally frowned upon.  Costs were very low so nobody was being bled dry