Go "Noles"

quote:

Originally posted by P-Dog:
People are people, not animals or dirtbags. It is demeaning to the members of that group - even if they don't want to complain about it.

I take offense to that, on behalf of all animals who cant speak for themselves.

You have equated animals with "dirtbags".

I find that offensive - and my dog does too.

In fact - he is howling in anger as I write this.

Just horrible.

P-Dog,

Almost forgot - my goldfish is angry as well.

Blew a gasket and he just turned belly up.

The insensitivity is mind boggling.
Now - I gotta flush him.

I agree that the cartoonish characters that seem to denigrate an ethnic group or race are probably past their time, especially in this day and age. However, many ... if not most ... of the mascots are no longer portrayed in that light.

We have the same problem here in So Cal with people trying to change high school mascots that they believe are offensive to our residents of Mexican descent. And yet, for the most part, these mascots are indeed quality depictions of the strongest warriors of the Mexican nations. My son's high school team was known as the Aztecs and the graphic of the male and female Aztec warrior was not the least bit offensive or denigrating. It was inspiring ... so why force a change?

If I had any mascots to complain about, it would be anything with "devil" as part of its name as I find that horribly offensive due to my faith. Does anyone think the NCAA will put a stop to that anytime soon because people of faith find it offensive? And what about the school whose mascot's nickname is the four-letter word describing a rooster? Am I the only female in the country that finds that totally offensive?

I believe that some adjustments could be made to mascot depictions if they bring a negative stereotype with them. But I just don't think that is the case anymore and the NCAA has gone too far.

How about this one:

One school (I wont mention the name) has a mascot as follows:

It's a somewhat balding - overweight hairy man about 5'10 - 235 pounds - wearing a strapless t-shirt with a spaghetti sauce stain on the front.

They call the team "The Sloppy Goombahs"

I am disgusted and appalled. Horrified actually.

Mr. Brand - please put an end to this madness.

So here is the current personal recap:

I have one dead goldfish (Heart attack) - Offended to death. Down the bowl he goes.

I have a howling pissed off dog - because he was equated with "dirtbags". He is offended and has just recently expressed his outrage on my brand new living room rug. (That is truly offensive.)

I have 32 offended male relatives who are now irate as a result of the mascot previously referred to. They are hanging up their stained tshirts as I speak.

I have 2 pounds of sausage in the refridgerator that are offended as a result of those denigrating MLB races. They refuse to be cooked and have left the freezer in protest.

And - lastly - I am offended that everyone is offended.

You go Brand - You Go!

Now that I think of it, I am appalled by Kenyon's use of Lords and Ladies. These names suggest an elitist society in which certain groups are considered inherently better than others simply by virtue of birhtright. That is not the kind of thing we want our kids to learn for $40k a year! And while we're on the Fighting Irish, don't forget the Fighting Scots of the College of Wooster.

We could have a bowl game--the Fighting Irish vs the Fighting Scots or is that already happening?

Based on the history of the founding of the college, Dartmouth used to be called the Indians. From dartmouth.edu:

quote:

Dartmouth is the nation's ninth-oldest college, founded in 1769 by Rev. Eleazar Wheelock for the education of "youth of the Indian Tribes ... English Youth and others ..."

And imagine a baseball teamwearing this excellent Indian warrior logo.

Presbyterian College is the:


Blue Hose

I ain't touching that one folks!

perhaps the answer is for each college to be assigned a random series of hexadecimal symbols for identification instead of using a traditional name,
that way they could be easily identified with a digital scan - and team uniforms could have a barcode on the sleeve where the team logo normally is

that way only a very few would be offended - just us with a lick o' common sense

speaking of offensive - - - Y-clipper, ya don't really show much sensitivity yourself by
stealing the nickname of a dead baseball legend

Sun Sports tonight @ 7PM Eastern...

T.K. Weatherall, President of Florida State University will discuss the NCAA B.S.

also:

Max Osceola of the Seminole Tribe with his Oklahoma counterpart.

and:

A VP of PC from the NCAA will also take part.

Hokie ...

quote:

Presbyterian College is the:
Blue Hose
I ain't touching that one folks!

What could you possibly mean?

YC & P-Dog,
You folks are just plain wrong and over sensitive on this issue. I am 1/4 Wa****a Indian. I t is my strong belief that when the persons who sat down and made the decision for their team to be named the Indians, Braves, Seminoles or Redskins, it wasn't to make fun of themselves. I think majority of Americans who aren't bigots have a vision of an American Indian being an extremely proud, brave and fearless human being. It is unfortunate the typical "squeaky wheel" seem to get their way more & more. I don't know of any Indian who is nearly as offended by the Florida State Seminoles, Midwestern State Indians, or Atlanta Braves as I am by the absurdity of these supposedly intelligent men at the NCAA. Every year it seems there is some new ruling which makes it more difficult to enjoy the rich heritage & traditions of high school and college sports due to the governing bodies who keep us under their thumbs. It seems we are governed more & more by people who have only their own best interests and comfort zones in mind. It is disgusting.

I think that FutureBackMom's take was about right on this issue. In other words, there is room on both sides of this issue. On one hand, it appears the NCAA has way too much time on their hands, on the other there is nothing wrong with being sensitive to cartoonish or outlandish depictions that may indeed be over the top.

YC - I hadn't considered the Redskins argument before. I don't think the generic Braves and Indians names fall into a racially sensitive category however.

True. But I also never included specific tribe names with local or community ties. I do think names just grouping a whole race is questionable, but for sure cartoonish mascots and logos can be offensive.

Do Native Americans take offense to having their names in sports? Personally, I think it would be an honor. And if people say that the logos are offensive, name one that is for me please. How can a logo be offensive if it isn;t being used in a disrespectful way?

Not to presume to speak for native americans, but just based on what I read etc. there are some groups that voice opposition to names/mascots based on their heritage and some that don't. Apparently the Seminole tribe in Florida has supported FSU, while for example Native Americans have fought other schools-San Diego State comes to mind in that regard. I think the differences lie not with the use of names, but how the mascot is depicted.

Years ago when Stanford were the Indians, they had a rather cornball mascot and their cheerleaders were dressed as little Indian maidens.

As far as offensive logos, IMO, the Cleveland Indians logo is not the most respectful. At least they improved upon it somewhat from the cartoon used in the 40's 50's. The sad part of the misunderstanding here is that the Indians were named after a player and to honor him, who was the first native american to play in MLB. Prior to that they were the spiders.

The Braves Chief knock-A-homa was probably not the most respectful depiction of native Americans, but at least he has gone by the wayside.

The name redskins is derived from settlers buying the skins of corpses of slain native americans and that the is name of our nation's capital's football team.

Bottom line, I don't think it is just about names. It is about mascots, ceremonies etc. that go with it.

I went to a college located in a predominately african-american neighborhood. One of the fraternities was called the fijis. They'd dress their pledges in black face and have them run around campus and fraternity row as if they were "native savages". The annex building to their house was burned to the ground. Guess some of the neighbors didn't care for the depiction.

Notre Dame always gets mentioned in this, but their mascot is a leprechaun and those are fictional characters. Similarly, not too many Spartans and Trojans roaming our streets. Native americans are not fictional characters.

Perhaps you need only look to the concept of your own heritage being depicted as a cartoon mascot

Back to Notre Dame and the leprechaun, when Stanford's band brought this past the leprechaun and into the realm of actual people and presented a half time show about the potato famine, they were permanently banned from ND campus

If you Substitute any ethnic group and an attribute they are stereotyped for and put that in place of 100,000 college students doing war chants and the tomahawk chop, maybe the issue comes more into focus.

HB,

I agree with you. I think teams like the Seminoles, who are respectfully honoring local people and tradition, are okay. I dislike names like the Indians, Redskins, etc. The Indians is bad because, even with good original intentions, it is still a term that does not give respect to a group, but rather a whole race. With this responsibility, they have not been responsible in the past. Just look at some of their cartoonish logos. If I were Native American, I would be offended by may Indians logos. The Braves is a little better, but the 'Tomahawk Chop' and the chant is something that could easily be offensive, and trivializes a group of people. The Redskins is the worst, and that was before I knew it referred to corpses. That's not respectful, it categorizes people by skin color...something I think we SHOULDN'T DO. But the fact that it refers to corpses makes it all the more appalling.

Good post, HB.

Well then - I guess its safe to say that sausage races are OK.
And the animal thing is cool too.

Still not sure about the "Sloppy Goombahs" though.

As for the depiction of your heritage as a cartoon - if you watch TV - you will see far worse than a cartoonish depiction - of just about every heritage on the planet.

Personally - I like the previous suggestion. Use a collection of symbols (Like the singer Prince did when he changed his name) for each team.

The Michigan //*((%'s

The Georgia @@&^@!))'s

and lets not forget the Texas ***^%^%^&^'s

That way, all the people watching will be safe from being offended (Until of course they go home and turn the TV on)

Interesting.
There are, I believe 7 teams in all divisions combined using Devil.
Also 2 using that famous fighting bird, that I find quite offensive (more than any Indian names).
I won't go there with the BlUE HOSE thing, but what is a GORLOCK (Webster University) and what is a CHOCTAW (?) (Mississippi College), and what the heck are EPHS (Williams College). I find that offensive just because I have no idea what they are!
Oh and while we are at it, are any QUAKERS or PILGRIMS offended using those as mascots?

How about "Hoyas"??? Is that some native tribe of DC?

Having graduated from Oregon State University I guess I'll just be wise and leave their mascot out of this discussion!!!

Its an "offending jamboree"!!!

Here's an idea:

Lets all get together and put down a list of things that "offend" us. Then we can send it to Mr. Brand and demand action.

I do believe we will need a significant amount of bandwidth for this wonderful exercise.

to answer the post above about Georgetown, their teams were originally called the stonewalls

The had a cheer " Hoya Saxa" which is apparently latin for "what rocks". somehow over the years this cheer morphed into Hoyas.

why their mascot is a dog

Anywho, I do think there is some legitimate issues on all sides here, but I've got my own problems... my son plays for the Sagehens (try as they will to call themselves the Sagecocks, they seem to be consistently "PCed").

gotwood,
Depends where your mind is at, I was thinking animal!

http://www.ncaa-baseball.com/

Lists all Div 1,2,3, you all can pick out what offends you for that list!

Since it was brought up...coming from a family of "Quakers"....I can personally tell you that we are not offended by the University of Penn and their mascot....but don't even get us started on our opinion of that round-shaped box of oatmeal!

luvbb - lmao - you are the best!

Choctaw is a Native American tribe from the Oklahoma area, I believe.

luvbb ...
I always knew there had to be a special reason you were so passive ...

P.S. to Dr. Brand and the PCAA:

While we're at it, I recall the great shame and embarrassment felt the first time I was ever called a "jock". Coming from a small town, I had never heard the term used to refer to an athlete until getting to college in 1972.

I think it highly offensive to refer to an identifiable group of individuals by such a demeaning term, which is normally used for an article of wearing apparel that smells like a locker room, times six. Besides, female athletes don't even wear them so "lady jocks" is an oxymoron anyway. Do we call them "Sports Bras" ? I think not.

Henceforth, the PCAA/NCAA should require of all students, before being admitted to an NCAA athletic event, certification they have taken and passed a course on "Athletic Supporter Sensitivity" training. The acronymn is just great!

hokieone,

Always liked the term “athletic supporter” myself! Its gender neutral and anyone can be one, even couch potatoes. Oooopppps, hope I didn’t offend any lazy spuds!!! Sorry.

“You don’t think experience means anything until you have it.” ~ Walt Weiss

FBM....LOL ! You will notice... I said I come from a "family" of Quakers.....I'm the proverbial black sheep! But...I think you already knew that!

Actually, with the term 'jock' you get additional offensiveness....two for the price of one! My English friends were puzzled when I refered to my son as a jock....Jock being the dismissive term for Scots, much as 'Paddy' is for Irishmen.

I don't suppose having a little sense and balance is an option......

Tiger Paw Mom,

Maybe you can find a Pilgrim and ask him/her?

IT is by now pretty obvious you can offend anyone by using any name you can think of. Earlier in the discussion it was suggested the PCAA/NCAA just require the schools only be known by the school name. I think this too would would be offensive. What self respecting Texas football player would want to be known as an Oklahoman, no matter what they paid him.

Maybe there;d be some good debate or discussion if people took this issue seriously on one side or the other. Jokes about jockstraps don't find a solution. Man, and I'm a kid!

YC,
The reason a lot of folks are making wisecracks about this topic is because it is such an absurd ruling by the "powers to be" that it is laughable. IF it would do any good to curse and TYPE IN BOLD I would gladly do that. Don't keep score, everybody makes the team, everybody plays, parent pressure on school coaches, can't have mens college sports without equal womens sports, no Indian mascots. Why the heck did athletics have to become so political?

clips, We are not lawyers so we can't fix it seriously. We are just people who want to express their feelings about the subject and have a little fun with it. I am a kid too and I don't have a problem with people expressing their concerns. I might not agree with it all but it is what it is.

Yankeeclipper,

Actually I am an attorney, so I can't dodge the fuss for that reason, but part of the life lesson we all learn along the way is to never lose your sense of humor. None of us can change everything we dislike nor can we right every wrong, but sometimes, when you have a warped mind like mine, some things will just strike you as silly, and it's okay to laugh a little in this world.

There will be times when issues, people and/or events get people so uptight that you want to explode and that's when you step back, take a breath, and find a way to grin. It'll be okay.

I wonder if the PCAA is now going to move their headquarters from INDIANapolis?

Yankeeclipper,

Its all in fun. There is no stopping the tidal wave of politically correct nonsense washing over us all.

We just have to wait until the surf is in - and get a big towel to dry off.

And use sunscreen while you are waiting.