Go or stay home?

Personally, I’d hold off until he’s bigger, faster, stronger. When he has something worth showing. I see a lot of kids go a bit too soon before they’re full grown and it doesn’t buy them much. My two cents.

If it costs no more than $100 and the results are NOT posted online for all to see, sure, go for it.  Keep it low-key.  My suggestion is to not do PBR or PG or any like that until you already know he has D1-type metrics (and maybe not even then).  Otherwise, you'll just have a bunch of unimpressive numbers posted online and you'll feel pressure to keep doing more showcases (i.e. spending more money) to bring them up.

Showcase companies make a ton of money off people who want to "set a baseline" and "see where he measures up."  It's entirely unnecessary.

Another option is a college camp. Some of them take all of the metrics and provide a report (Kentucky did that). That way he is getting the experience in a "showcase-like" setting but nothing is getting published that you have to pay to replace.

The best advice you can get is from a trusted former pro or former college player who knows your son and can give you advice based on where he’s at right now.

In general, the advice you’ve gotten to wait on him getting bigger/faster/stronger is a good one.  I would spend the $$$ that would go towards the showcase, gas, food and hotel for that day on specialized Baseball specific speed and strength training and/or a SAT/ACT tutor.

Great grades and high SAT/ACT scores will open a lot of doors

@anotherparent posted:

Showcase companies make a ton of money off people who want to "set a baseline" and "see where he measures up."  It's entirely unnecessary.

yep!  We saw a few dozen kids around here take that route from 8th grade on.  They all ended up at D3 schools or low level JUCO’s

If $$ is not a big issue IMO go to the showcase for the reason you stated above:  get comfortable with the showcase format and establish a baseline to improve on.  This will give both of you an idea where he currently stands, how the competition is, and what work must be done.  As someone mentioned above it will get him used to the format and hopefully overcome any nervousness in future showcases.  It's a learning experience for all involved.

If the idea is just to get comfortable with the process find a local college showcase style event for $250 or less. A local D1 will invite D2 and D3 coaches. They know there will be D2 and D3 prospects there who don’t realize they’re not D1 prospects.

I once watched a few hours of a local D1 showcase. Of 36 hitters only 4 had D1 swings. I mentioned it to a player I knew on the D1 team who was helping out. When I pointed them out the players he told me they were found at a PG event and invited free of charge for the weekend.

Stop thinking in terms of young sophomore. It doesn’t change he’s a sophomore. Drop the “young” from your thinking. Hopefully, your son isn’t thinking this way. It can become a mental obstacle for him.

My son has a May birthday. We never talked about playing up a year or two. He played with his grade (technically playing up a year) until he moved and and played up two years. He played grade appropriate until it was time to move up another year and play talent appropriate.

@3and2Fastball posted:

They all ended up at D3 schools or low level JUCO’s

Which there is nothing wrong with

My player is notoriously bad at events/tests/tryouts so we did a few very inexpensive ones where the metrics were given to us but not posted.  We got exactly what we needed for less than $100. This would be my preferred/suggested method. Otherwise that 78 fastball or 82exit velocity just sits there on the internet taunting you, waiting for someone to google your kid....

Thanks everyone.  Good stuff yet again.  It’s highly unlikely my son will be a D1prospect and I’m completely fine with that.  Our goal is to find a school in Florida that has a good engineering/computer science program where he would also have an opportunity to play baseball.  Not an easy task for sure, but you gotta have goals right?  Florida Prepaid College, hence FL.  Grades are good, 3.85 unweighted and 20th in a class of 289, also in a technology magnet program.  He’ll start SAT prep this year.  

I know what his metrics are and how he’ll stack up against his peers.  I wouldn’t send him to a showcase of any sort without having a good idea of where he would stand.  I’ve looked into some of the college camps without a great deal of success.  They all seem to be youth camps or a bit scammy.  Because he’s played in PG/PBR tournaments, we get 5-10 emails/letters per week inviting him to XYZ college camps just like everyone else.  If any of you know where legitimate camps can be found, please pass that info along.  

Also not looking to go to 10 showcases every year.  Just looking to get his numbers posted so they can referenced if and when the conversations with coaches start.  My son and I also enjoy the time on the road as some of our best conversations about life and baseball occur on this long drives.

We’ve skewed some of his training to improving on his tested metrics and if they are good enough at the end of the month, we’ll give it a go.  

Different way to look at the question:

You’re a college scout and PG profile reads as follows.  Would you have any interest in said player?

15 years, 0 months

Sophomore

5’9” 135 lbs

C/MI

C velo 80th percentile of 2024

C pop 90th percentile of 2024

MI velo 80th percentile of 2024

60 time 80th percentile of 2024

10 time 80th percentile of 2024

Exit Velo 60th percentile of 2024

@LousyLefty posted:

Which there is nothing wrong with

Absolutely not.  The 10+ PBR’s over the course of 4 years were completely unnecessary in terms of getting to a D3 or low level JUCO, though, which was my point.  That $2500 would be a nice chunk of tuition money instead

No idea why it would not be legit, Embry-Riddle (D2) has a "showcase camp" for HS players, not too expensive.

@Nick0977 posted:

Different way to look at the question:

You’re a college scout and PG profile reads as follows.  Would you have any interest in said player?

15 years, 0 months

Sophomore

5’9” 135 lbs

C/MI

C velo 80th percentile of 2024

C pop 90th percentile of 2024

MI velo 80th percentile of 2024

60 time 80th percentile of 2024

10 time 80th percentile of 2024

Exit Velo 60th percentile of 2024

Not a scout, as a disclaimer. Others will weigh in, but if I’m looking at him, the only question I’d really have is how projectable is his size? Currently 5’9, what size is he going to likely end up? If he’s going to be at 5’9 and 160 when he’s a senior, those percentiles will likely be down in the 50’s.

Percentiles mean very little to most college scouts.  What are the actual numbers?  If they meet D1 criteria, there will be interest.  If he doesn’t meet D1 criteria, most D2 & D3 recruiting coordinators will start to get in touch during the spring of Junior year or the summer before Senior year.

D1 coaches aren’t comparing your son to other players his age.  They are comparing him to other players on their roster.  If there is a recruiting year where there aren’t enough legit high school prospects to replace currently rostered college players, most D1’s will fill those spots with JUCO transfers.

The percentile thing is a PG/PBR thing to hook in parents to get them to spend more money.  It’s like crack, with less side effects.

@Senna It’s not likely that a 15 year old wouldn’t add height, but exactly the challenge that my son will likely face. So he works and then works some more.

Most college coaches do not go through PG profiles unless the player has been recommended to him, or he plays on a travel team that often recommends players, or goes and watches those teams they associate with and see s someone that peaks their interest.  Or the player has had previous contact with coach through emails, etc.

I asked a coach today and the above was his answer.

Personally if it were my son, I would wait, consider attending a camp first to get feedback.

@Nick0977 posted:

@Senna It’s not likely that a 15 year old wouldn’t add height, but exactly the challenge that my son will likely face. So he works and then works some more.

5’9” is plenty enough for a Catcher.  Tell him that Yogi Berra was 5’7”…. The work ethic will pay off!

@TPM Thanks, very helpful.  

@3and2Fastball One could buy a lot of crack with showcase money 😂.   Understood, one would have to assume that they maintained the peer percentile and that’s not likely.  Good points across the board.  Appreciate it.  Might make more sense to wait regardless of the outcome.  

I don't think your rationale supports going to a showcase.  As you pointed out, you are not looking to impress D1 scouts and he doesn't have the numbers anyway.  You can establish a baseline yourself with a radar gun and a stop watch (it sounds like you've already done this).  So why go?

@Nick0977 posted:

@TPM Thanks, very helpful.  

@3and2Fastball One could buy a lot of crack with showcase money 😂.   Understood, one would have to assume that they maintained the peer percentile and that’s not likely.  Good points across the board.  Appreciate it.  Might make more sense to wait regardless of the outcome.  

If a player attends a showcase, PG not sure of others, your son would receive a rating. The rating is 1-10, based on future potential.  It's pretty hard to raise that rating but I have seen a few players receive a 7 and end with a 10 in rare cases. The rating is a guide to help the player identify his college potential (D1,2,3) and professional potential. I think the cost may have value to some in eliminating or adding opportunities.

If it is your son's desire to play D1 baseball, based on his current  height and weight, this might help you and your son to decide if this time is the right time to spend your money, which is always a personal decision.

Also, IMO, joining a reputable travel team is extremely helpful in the process, when the time is right.

@Smitty28 The group has done a pretty good job of bringing me to the same conclusion.  @3and2Fastball also brought up a really valid point that I was well aware of but chose to ignore and that’s the timeline for recruiting at the various levels and positions.  PG, PBR and the like do a fine job of creating a sense of urgency that doesn’t really exist.  I would imagine that it’s a lot easier to teach a 6’ 185lbs sophomore to be a more effective catcher than it is to teach a 5’9” 135lbs catcher to be 6’ and 185lbs.  The good news is my son has a great group of qualified/connected coaches, trainers and instructors to help him along.  A fully stocked fridge, the weight room and time will be my sons best friends over the next year or so.  In the mean time, I’ll try to track down those elusive college camps where he can get some more feedback and hopefully develop some additional relationships that will help him along.  While everyone knows that the game is still 90% mental and the other half physical, It’s been awhile since I’ve seen anyone roll out a 5’7” catcher.  Thanks again.  It’s really helpful to hear from those that have been there.  

Yes, pass on the showcase until he has something to showcase. If you're looking for reference, NCSA has some good ones by position, by division

https://www.ncsasports.org/bas...ecruiting-guidelines

Also the PG Ratings thing above is on point. You may go now when he's 15 and get a 6 or 7 but unless you pay to go to another showcase, he'll be stuck with the 6 or 7 and stuck with the Profile picture from said showcase until you do.

You can add your own pictures to PG profile, by event and by team, until you attend a showcase, then that is the picture that will forever be on his account. I would also make sure he looks good for said picture. My son went to one and he picture was horrible (taken late and not cropped liked others, even though he is 6'3 205, he looked 5'8 and 150 compared to others. Not saying people recruit off of pictures, but you want them to be representative of size and stature and you want to pass the "eye test".

Spend the showcase money on a SAT or ACT course and nail that thing and add it to his profile.

I would strongly recommend creating a baseball profile to share with recruiters and coaches on his email reach outs. One stop shop for everything, height, weight, GPA, metrics, awards, tweets with video, coach contact, etc. Coaches LOVED this one stop shop for everything they were looking for and could quickly and easily verify. Easy for your son to personalize short emails (which they appreciate) to coaches and programs expressing interest and attach his Profile.....

Started as a one pager and grew as my son committed, got more awards, tweets, and wanted to include HS and Travel Ball season stats....

@Nick0977 posted:

The good news is my son has a great group of qualified/connected coaches, trainers and instructors to help him along. 

If your son has a great group of qualified connected coaches, trainers and instructors to help him along, why not ask them?

People come here saying their sons have a great group of qualified coaches, trainers, etc. but they seem to not understand how it works.  Thats not necessarily true of everyone, but seems that the ones who really did have connected coaches, who played in the right venues, had college connections, got into the right programs. Make sure that you are paying $$ to the right people.

FWIW, a friends team just won the 14 BCS.  Every single one of those 14yo studs have college coaches following them because they know who the organization is and what they offer the players for their development.

Remember, this still is a business and the best businesses are successful.  Coaches follow successful travel teams. Some say travel ball is BS, not necessarily so.

A college camp is a good way to get quiet metric, skills feedback and start a communication thread with a coach/recruiter. This plus the promotion by the travel org can go a long way in getting on their radar when he gets into the school's desired metrics as he gets older.

@TPM posted:

If your son has a great group of qualified connected coaches, trainers and instructors to help him along, why not ask them?

The only slightly tricky thing about this is that you are paying them; what are they going to say, that he'll never play in college?  More likely they will say something like "if he grows/improves/works, he could be mid-major D1."   That's code for . . . absolutely nothing, but it keeps your hopes alive.

I agree, though, of course you should ask them, and use them as a resource.

I would think travel orgs would prefer to keep their credibility with the schools and be realistic on the schools the kids should target (Juco to D1 PG and pro)

Oh, of course - they're not going to talk to schools about him unless they think he fits.  But they can tell you at 15U that they don't know where he'll end up, because they honestly don't - although if he were D1 material already, they would tell you that.

@anotherparent posted:

Oh, of course - they're not going to talk to schools about him unless they think he fits.  But they can tell you at 15U that they don't know where he'll end up, because they honestly don't - although if he were D1 material already, they would tell you that.

Good point. But I believe many are pretty honest and some just out to take your money. Lots of FL teams work hard to gain good reputations with college coaches for their players.

@Nick0977 posted:

@TPM Thanks, very helpful.

You have a private message.

@anotherparent posted:

Oh, of course - they're not going to talk to schools about him unless they think he fits.  But they can tell you at 15U that they don't know where he'll end up, because they honestly don't - although if he were D1 material already, they would tell you that.

This picture is perfectly painted and IMO is the travel ball experience that is the most common. Families get strung along for years based on false hope and false promises, paying healthy fees all along the way. Then when there is no pot of gold (or only a few nuggets) at the end of the rainbow they are angry and disappointed. This result is 50% the fault of the travel ball org for being dishonest and 50% the fault of the parents for not doing their homework. As a parent you have to get real about your son’s playing ability - and the sooner you do the better. One of the best ways to do this is by attending college baseball games at all the various levels. Watch with a critical eye and determine if your son looks and plays more like D3 or D1. Or more like JuCo or D2 or NAIA. Once you have determined which pond to fish in it’s much easier to make a roadmap to get to the lake. The more you know, the less dependent you are on a travel org (or anyone else) and you are far better off.

That is the timeframe by son did his first.  He was one of the younger kids at the showcase.  Did well for his age group, but mostly, he did get comfortable and see that he could hang with 16-17 year olds.  He ranked high in his age.  It gave him confidence.  Beware that it can also do the opposite, which isn't a bad thing.  We had a friend who went and realized he wasn't close to where a lot of kids his age were, he was just used to his bubble.

TONS of fantastic advice in this thread. @Nick0977 consider reading the whole thread a second time and circling back to it regularly. You might find that a particular piece that doesn’t resonate with you now, will at a later time. I’ll add a couple pieces:

1) if money isn’t tight, I really like the idea of doing as many low cost, low visibility showcases as you can now. They’re out there. But I absolutely believe that most kids show up to a showcase with more conservative approaches that stem from lack of confidence. Fear, paranoia, etc. I’ve known dads/players that - because their kid didn’t screw anything up at a showcase and completed each task - that they were successful. Not me. For as many as I’ve been at, it’s always clear that a few kids are there to try to truly stand out. To dazzle. Put on a show. Everyone else is there to not screw up and then hope their numbers/performance turn out great. But that never happens. Vanilla in, vanilla out. My 2021 hasn’t done a showcase since Feb 2020, but if he went to one tomorrow, he’d dazzle. Only because he’s done enough showcases that he understands the mindset that produces at them and the ones that don’t. He’s so wholly comfortable with every aspect of them that he gets to simply shoot for the stars whenever he attends anything like that.

2) I’d recommend you seek as many assessments of your son as you can get.  But more specifically, seek the ones that don’t feel good. There simply is not enough true tough love feedback being disseminated to these players and their parents. So solicit the feedback that doesn’t give you warm fuzzies and then focus an improvement plan to address those things you didn’t enjoy hearing. When people say great things about your son, toss it out. It can’t and won’t help you in the slightest.

I would get an independent assessment done by a reputable training fascility or, as one mentioned above, an by an ex college player who is now coaching.  I would then get faster, stronger and work on the skills needed to meet what ever level of college you can play.  There is not just one way to achieve the goal of playing and I am sure everyone has their exceptions and own journey.

Sophomore is too early, considering that size and that position.  I would go to showcase when you have something to showcase to the right program.

@DanJ Agreed, and I will.  All of his coaches are very candid with him and me. I try to be very realistic about my son’s ability and work with his coaches/trainers on improving them.  All of them also know the goal and don’t pull punches.  My son will forgo the showcase for now and we will seek out college camps that will hopefully impart some tough love or honesty that will be helpful to his progression.  

@adbono This is our fifth year of travel ball with my oldest son.  We live in the Tampa area in Florida.  There are more travel programs in our area than you could imagine.  After making the rounds with most of the more prominent organizations in our area, I found that some are better than others, but few offer the value proposition that they promised.  So I built a team of coaches and trainers that my son goes to for development.  I only look to a travel program for an opportunity for my son to play competitive games.  If he gets anything more than that, great, but I know that one way or another he’s going to get the development he needs.  So when the other travel parents are complaining, I just watch and enjoy the game because I know that my son is getting the reps or work that he needs.  Hard to be disappointed when you’re getting exactly what you expect.