God, Country, Honor in Baseball

Son's friend and teammate committed to a pretty good D1 about 4/5 months ago. Offer included money.  Got a call Sunday from coach, "Sorry, no NLI coming your way.  Out of cash/spots.  Spent it on some recent JUCO's guys we got.  Really excited, strong players.  Good luck!".

Will baseball become like football/basketball recruiting?  You betcha.

"A mind, once expanded, never returns to it's original shape."

Original Post
K9 posted:

So how does a committed player defend against this?  Should he continue to go to showcases and team camps just in case?  

This is very much hearsay and directed to K9's comment, not the OP.   I heard of a kid committed to Big State U that continued to go to camps at other schools and Big State U is not happy with him.  He must not be committed to Big State U family.  Big State U is considering removing their offer.

Go44dad posted:
Steve A. posted:

Why would it be improper to name the D1 who did this???

It gives up the anonymity of the kid and family.  That is for them to decide, not me.  They still have skin in the game.

Why does he have to be named?  If the program has a habit of doing this, maybe it should be known - though arguably word of mouth is better than the internet.

OTOH, when this kind of story circulates, it's good to keep in mind that in many cases the school may be cold blooded, but  they're right.  For example, a kid we know from our area had committed to a P5 in Soph year.  By Jr. HS season there were whispers about his FB not having the same pop it used to have. Fall of Sr. year the P5 declined to sign him, similar to the OP. The family sucked it up and found a good program in a good conference.  However, the FB was still not what people thought it should be.  Next thing you know, kid has TJ surgery.  Hopefully he'll be ready to pitch for the new program this year.

Qhead posted:

That just amazes me - I hope the affected PSA calls them out on it.  There may be more to it I suppose -- but sounds like utter BS.

Very true on could be more to it.  I say that with an open mind.  Also, (in a different graduating class) this school had a decommit of a kid who "thought he could do better", SEC etc.  So it goes both ways with verbal commitments.

As long as NLI's can't be signed until Junior year, this will continue.

Qhead posted:

That just amazes me - I hope the affected PSA calls them out on it.  There may be more to it I suppose -- but sounds like utter BS.

Also, kind of the reason I posted this.  I talked to my son early on about things not always working out the way you plan.  You gotta keep working and moving forward (both baseball recruiting and life).  Some things are out of your control.

JCG posted:
Go44dad posted:
Steve A. posted:

Why would it be improper to name the D1 who did this???

It gives up the anonymity of the kid and family.  That is for them to decide, not me.  They still have skin in the game.

Why does he have to be named?  If the program has a habit of doing this, maybe it should be known - though arguably word of mouth is better than the internet.

OTOH, when this kind of story circulates, it's good to keep in mind that in many cases the school may be cold blooded, but  they're right.  For example, a kid we know from our area had committed to a P5 in Soph year.  By Jr. HS season there were whispers about his FB not having the same pop it used to have. Fall of Sr. year the P5 declined to sign him, similar to the OP. The family sucked it up and found a good program in a good conference.  However, the FB was still not what people thought it should be.  Next thing you know, kid has TJ surgery.  Hopefully he'll be ready to pitch for the new program this year.

There's no need to name anyone here, but I hope that kid makes it clear what was said.  This is so wrong, and from the description of the call it sounds like the coach had experience in doing this.  There's a big difference between a sophomore commit who doesn't pan out vs a kid who commits in July of his senior year and then gets screwed a few days before NLI signing day.  Why protect a person like this?

Go44dad posted:


As long as NLI's can't be signed until Junior year, this will continue.

Call me a pessimist, but I don't think that would make any difference. The phone call would change to... "You can show up if you want, and we'll honor the scholarship, but you'll never play here." At which point >99% of the kids will go somewhere else.

With the facts initially provided, the D1 is clearly painted as being way out of line in the way this was handled. ( We found better players suddenly, therefore, have a nice life Mr. Sr.) Unless you really wanted to dig at it, the identity of the player would likely remain confidential but the identity of a Program that does not stand by their promise would be revealed & others who are approached by this Program would have a better feel for who they are dealing with. Otherwise, we are left with (don't trust anyone, ever, on a verbal offer because Mystery D1 screwed Player X) This is false & misleading because the vast majority of Programs do not operate this way.

Were they late commits to the program?  That is scary.  I have seen a lot of programs committing a bunch of juco kids and I wondered how that effects the recruiting classes. I see no excuse for waiting until the week of signing to let this kid know. Terrible.

Let’s say the program honors their commitment. The kid shows up on campus next year and has no shot at playing time ever.  Or he shows up on cmapus and doesn’t make the spring roster. What’s the difference? 

The way it was handled wis harsh. But they saved the kid from having to sit a year to transfer (means he doesn’t play for two years), going 4-2-4 or transferring down. In a rude way the program did the kid a favor. 

The typical way this is handled is telling the kid the commitment will be honored. But they don’t see him ever getting on the field. It’s just a nicer way of getting at the same result. Either way the player is left out.

For all we know the player didn’t progress as a player after commitment. There are two sides to every story. The truth usually resides somewhere in the middle. 

 

 

From the School's perspective, you can't really blame them from trying to acquire better  players. That is their mission. I think any Player / Parent being confronted with a situation like this who was told: " We made a commitment to you & will honor that, but, you need to understand that our class has greatly improved & your competitive situation for playing time has greatly diminished as a result.  You will still get an opportunity to show your skills & compete, but you may want to consider another option."  

This is just the reality of top level D1 athletics but to completely back out at the 11th hr is simply unfair & indicates a Program lacking moral leadership. 

baseballhs posted:

I really think NLI should be signed when a kid commits, whenever that is.  It would make programs and kids think long and hard but at least you would know its real on both sides.

Unfortunately it doesn't matter when it gets signed. If a coach wants to bring in Juco players he will still do it. They'll just tell you they don't have any money left. 

Look at the other thread on signing ceremonies. When that player announces his school and accepts his scholarship, another player in his recruiting class won't know until the draft is over in June that he is losing his scholarship

It's tough when a school can back out at the 11th hour, but for the player, once you accept a verbal commitment, all recruitment stops.  That's a tough double standard.

Per the other thread, maybe baseball should go with flaunting their offers and holding out on their decision.  Impossible to do, as football has 85 full ride scholarships to work with, but seems like the player has much more leverage.

A thread like this seems to go up every year, or at least it has in the years I've been posting here.  It's awful for the kid(s) in question that this sort of thing happens to.  Unfortunately, the reality is the schools (and by extension the NCAA) hold all the cards in this relationship, and they likely always will.  What incentive do they have to change the process that would empower the individual players and their families?  As parents of players, that would be nice.  I agree with the sign the NLI the same day you commit theory, I just don't see the schools or the NCAA getting behind it.

RJM posted:


For all we know the player didn’t progress as a player after commitment. There are two sides to every story. The truth usually resides somewhere in the middle.  

The OP said the offer was made 4/5 months ago. Still two sides to the story, but progress shouldn't be at issue in this particular case.

MidAtlanticDad posted:
RJM posted:


For all we know the player didn’t progress as a player after commitment. There are two sides to every story. The truth usually resides somewhere in the middle.  

The OP said the offer was made 4/5 months ago. Still two sides to the story, but progress shouldn't be at issue in this particular case.

If an offer was made that late, odds are this player was one of the last to be recruited. AKA the first to go. 

When it comes to recruiting there are the guys they want, and the guys they'd like to have. They can live without the latter. 

I understand both sides of it.  I also know 2 kids right now that backed out of their commitments in the last month.  1 to a P5 who was told another P5 would offer and didn't so now he is at a small D1.  Other was a P5 commit who realized as they signed catchers that he was not in the plan like he thought earlier.  If you believe schools should be punished, then you have to believe players should also.  Should these kids not be allowed to play for a year because they decommitted. 

I also don't buy into the fact that you have to stop going to things because you committed, it is just a choice that you make.  The recruiting process is a trust situation in life.  The player trusts that when November 14th rolls around the school will honor their offer and the school trusts that the player will sign the NLI.  At any point before it is signed, either can withdraw with no apparent penalty other than the player may not be trusted by other schools and the school may not be trusted by other players. 

As in any area of life, if you are not the top dog the view can be really bad.  The further back in the pack you are the more life stinks.

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