grades

grades are just as important as ability.actually more important if you want to play at a d1.
tell your friend to get on ncaa.org and look at the classes needed for each division.then look at what he needs.he may still have time to turn it around.

orioles - My son wasn't a good student in HS. He was a qualifier though. The grades won't prevent your friends from being recruited, but will prevent some from coming after him. By having the grades to match the talent will only give a player that many more options. If he can take a correspondence or night class to raise even one lower grade in a core class might make a big difference.

Good advice, most important you do have to qualify to play at the level you want to.

We had a stud pitcher from these parts, was he was surprised that he had to go JUCO route first, not that is a bad thing, but he thought ability alone would get him a great scholarship. Doesn't work that way.

If he is truly a stud he will get looked at regardless of grades. I know of one player who has been UIL ineligible for 2 or the past 3 years due to grades. He just signed with one of the biggest D1 programs.

quote:

Originally posted by Redhead:
If he is truly a stud he will get looked at regardless of grades. I know of one player who has been UIL ineligible for 2 or the past 3 years due to grades. He just signed with one of the biggest D1 programs.

What is UIL ineligible?

Those are the exception, though, Red. A small percentage.

For 99% of the boys, poor grades will really limit their options.

A 4.0, on the other hand, will ensure that no options are eliminated.

TPM,
In Texas, we have the "No pass-no play" laws. So if you're failing, you can't play sports!

I agree. I have a LHP friend who graduated from a D111 JC last spring. He was their top pitcher with just under 2 Ks per inning. 2nd in his conference with 1.8 era and he couldn't get a school to look at him. Finally got an NAIA school in Kansas to sign him.

TPM - for students involved in extracurricular activities - ie: sports, band, etc (anything that competes in UIL) a student must pass his/her classes with a 70 or above. If not, they are ineligible to participate until the next grading period or progress report. There are exceptions for AP classes and dual credit classes.

quote:

Originally posted by Redhead:
If he is truly a stud he will get looked at regardless of grades. I know of one player who has been UIL ineligible for 2 or the past 3 years due to grades. He just signed with one of the biggest D1 programs.

As others have said it will limit choices, and there will be some schools that will not touch him no matter what the talent level.

I really would like to believe that but in reality, if you are a big time athlete exceptions will be made. I know of multiple D1 football players from a certain school district in Texas that I used to live in. My best friend is a special ed teacher there and she can go down the list and tell me which players are literate/illiterate. They all have the same major - something like Modern Applied Agriculture.

quote:

Originally posted by Redhead:
I really would like to believe that but in reality, if you are a big time athlete exceptions will be made. I know of multiple D1 football players from a certain school district in Texas that I used to live in. My best friend is a special ed teacher there and she can go down the list and tell me which players are literate/illiterate. They all have the same major - something like Modern Applied Agriculture.

We are talking about 2 differnt things. Football players and basketball players are treated differently (revenue producing sports). Schools will give teams slots for academic waivers (NCAA qualified but not school admissions qualified) but they are limited.

The danger is we can all name the 1 kid who signs but there are others who are good players that have their choices limited. If a coach has the choice between 2 comparable players one with a 3.4 GPA and one with a 2.2 GPA who is struggling in his core courses who is he going to go for.

I was at a National showcase behind some very strong ACC coaches when they were watching a very projectable pitcher throwing 92-95. They were extremely excited about him until they saw his GPA and SAT scores on their roster sheet. Their response was what the hell am I going to do with that...they got up and grabbed some lunch.

This goes back to a previous Athletics vs Academic threads. I personally think it's a shame that some schools will stoop to the level of accepting academic nonqualifiers and then use the excuse that a good athletic program enriches the schools social environment.

Bottom line, IMHO, if you do not qualify under the schools academic guidelines an athlete should go to a school where he/she can.

Know of a HS baseball player was highly touted. Projected to be drafted with a nice bonus. Went UIL ineligible his senior spring, failing at least one course. Apparently had been marginal on grades for a while.

Bonus talk went bye-bye. Pros figured he wouldn't go to college. So they didn't have to dangle big dollars in front of him to lure him away from school. Ouch.

Grades will NOT stop a player from being recruited. It is true that because of talent, many doors will open to him that may not have opened otherwise. I know my son was admitted to some schools he wouldn't have been without the baseball factor. However, I also know that grades cost him some opportunities for offers.

It's pretty simple IMO.... great talent (work hard to get great) + great grades (word hard to get great) = more offers/opportunities. Less talent = less opportunities and less of a GPA = less in opportunities.

Never compare football recruitng to baseball recruiting! With 80 scholarships vs. 11.7, baseball coaches have to be more careful.

Some players get signed on purpose, if they do not qualify they head off to JUCO or get drafted.

Lafmom is correct, poor grades do NOT stop the recruiting process. Limits opportunities.

The situation I was refering to was that this stud player who thought he could play for the best schools in our state did not qualify for D1.

Dawgfan brings to our attention that coaches are only allowed to recruit so many that would normally not pass admissions. Also, these days for baseball, many coaches want to know their recruits will not become academically ineligible.

quote:

Dawgfan brings to our attention that coaches are only allowed to recruit so many that would normally not pass admissions.

My question is why should they be allowed to recruit any of them? If a kid cannot be admitted on his academics, there are other great schools in this country that will take him in and teach him on the level he belongs. Instead, he is granted immunity at a good academic institution, and is hand held through the years to make sure he stays eligible. Thats BULL. In the mean time a general student who truly desires the education is denied because he/she does not qualify academically.

I know a previous post identified the issues but I'm still "postal" about it.

quote:

Originally posted by Redhead:
If he is truly a stud he will get looked at regardless of grades. I know of one player who has been UIL ineligible for 2 or the past 3 years due to grades. He just signed with one of the biggest D1 programs.

Given the NCAA policy on pulling scholarships from programs that have issues with academic ineligibility, most coaches don't want to take a risk on a kid that struggles with the school work. Baseball programs already have so little scholarship money to work with that they need every dime. It's a simple fact that poor grades in HS will close doors regardless of a kid's talent. Private schools may have a bit more flexibility on admissions and GPA versus top public schools that have to more rigidly follow state admissions policies, but that's still a small accomodation open to boundary-case students.

My son was an average student ... basically a pretty consistent 2.9-3.0 ... and I know that reduced his options with some of the more academically challenging schools, despite his abilities.

quote:

Originally posted by rz1:

quote:

Dawgfan brings to our attention that coaches are only allowed to recruit so many that would normally not pass admissions.

My question is why should they be allowed to recruit any of them? If a kid cannot be admitted on his academics, there are other great schools in this country that will take him in and teach him on the level he belongs. Instead, he is granted immunity at a good academic institution, and is hand held through the years to make sure he stays eligible. Thats BULL. In the mean time a general student who truly desires the education is denied because he/she does not qualify academically.

I know a previous post identified the issues but I'm still "postal" about it.

To expand on this there is also a difference between being eligible for the school and being able to be admitted. For example my Son was a good student with pretty good SAT scores. A number of schools said that even with his grades that without baseball he might not get in. When you look at the number of students that apply to school vs admitted there may only accept 30%. It does not mean that the all of the 70% were poor students or did not meet the standards...there were others that had more to offer (including grades, background, activities, volunteer work and major and more factors than I know). Athletics is just one reason a student may get a step above another student who is applying.

Athletics as a whole has a positive impact on the underclassman and the schools ability to attract students, even those not participating in sports. I know that my Son's grades and SAT scores were part of the equation. Every school is different but "the stud" ball player is going to get looks, but if the coach doesn't think he will be around for 3 years due to academics why is he going to invest in him...Don't forget what we as parents think as Stud may be different than what the coach thinks as a stud.

In regards to the student athlete who is border line NCAA qualified, yes there are schools and coaches that will go after these athletes, I truly think it is a smaller % than many people think. In regards to strong students that would not get in for sure without baseball it might be more than you think (if that makes sense).

My advice for the HS baseball player who reads this: There are so many variables in finding the right college fit, from program, coaches, academic majors, environment, community, etc., that you want to have as many choices as possible to dial that in and not have to make compromises you're uncomfortable with. That means focus on getting good grades, even if you don't like school that much. Just know that for every 'C' that you get, that's the sound of a door to an opportunity slamming shut ... at the end of the day ask yourself was hanging out with your friends and not studying for that test worth it in the bigger picture? The only person whose future gets hurt is yours, so make choices that help you. Some of you may hate school work, but if baseball is your true passion understand that the path is paved by good grades ... that's just the reality of how it works in our ultra-competitive world, so either embrace it or find yourself kicking your own arse when you're 30 and wake up to realize your own casual attitude towards grades when you were 16 only hurt yourself and set you down a path you wished you hadn't travelled.

Which future do you want to wake up in?

quote:

Never compare football recruitng to baseball recruiting! With 80 scholarships vs. 11.7, baseball coaches have to be more careful.

The bigger issue is the differece between Head Count versus Equivalency sports.
The D1A football program awards only full ride (true full ride-tuition, fees, room/board, books) scholarships where the baseball program awards only percentages other than in extremely rare instances.

The one thing I rarely hear being discussed in these threads is the issue of grades and their impact on the affordability of a school.
All of the points being made regarding academic performance and a recruits potential attractiveness to a coach are very valid. Certainly the new academic reforms make it even more risky for a coach to recruit a player who is an academic risk. In addition, the player may be Pujols-esque, but he's useless if he's academically ineligible.
Always keep in mind that for many families, the bottom line cost of attendance is a limiting factor in the college choice. If a player is being recruited at an out of state program or a private school, a 50% baseball scholy probably leaves mom and dad on the hook for $10,000 to $20,000 per year in costs.
Academics can be huge as a means of eating into this cost. For example, many states have a waiver of out of state tuition based on academics ( normally around 3.5 GPA). In many/most instances, this academic money may be more than the baseball money. Academic moneys will usually kick in in the 3.0-3.2 range, and SAT/ACT scores come into play as well when determining whether academic money can be succesfully blended with athletic funds.

Exactly, rbi. Cost is a major factor for many. But some - granted, not all - NAIA & private D3's aren't super-expensive and offer great academic 'ships. Others are just incredibly expensive no matter what.

At some, academics can get you a 75% ride (tuition, room & board) or even a full ride.

quote:

Originally posted by pbonesteele:
My advice for the HS baseball player who reads this: There are so many variables in finding the right college fit, from program, coaches, academic majors, environment, community, etc., that you want to have as many choices as possible to dial that in and not have to make compromises you're uncomfortable with. That means focus on getting good grades, even if you don't like school that much. Just know that for every 'C' that you get, that's the sound of a door to an opportunity slamming shut ... at the end of the day ask yourself was hanging out with your friends and not studying for that test worth it in the bigger picture? The only person whose future gets hurt is yours, so make choices that help you. Some of you may hate school work, but if baseball is your true passion understand that the path is paved by good grades ... that's just the reality of how it works in our ultra-competitive world, so either embrace it or find yourself kicking your own arse when you're 30 and wake up to realize your own casual attitude towards grades when you were 16 only hurt yourself and set you down a path you wished you hadn't travelled.

Which future do you want to wake up in?

This is one of the best posts I have seen - shared it with my soph and he agreed - I might post this on his wall...nicely said!!!!!

Grades are of the utmost importance. With so few schoalrships and so many players, schools will just not risk losing a player to academic ineligibility unless he is a monster. And if that is the case, he'll most likely be drafted out of HS anyway.

A P throwing mid 80's is not a stud. He is very average at the D1 level. I know he's a soph. in HS right now, but it's a real big jump from 86-87 to 90-91. Alot of people say "He throws 86" when he really throws 82-83 and touches 86 once or twice a game.

Bottom line-have him study.

This is such a great thread, including the post above by pbonesteele, that a member requested we make it more noticeable. (Thanks, catcher09!)

I agree, and I am linking it in the Golden Threads forum as well as the Players Only.

Julie

First let me preface this (and my sons will attest), I expected my sons to do their very best in the the classtroom, and always stressed getting good grades. But the realities of the world are a bit different for the "Athletes" out there.

I look at this from a little different angle, seeing how I was a Very good student myself and played a collegiate sport, but wasn't the STUD, and knew nothing of recruiting back then... and so was only an invited walk-on, with a small academic grant. Where another player on my team, with barely average grades, had close to a full ride, and after two years I ended up playing ahead of him. That's when you learn life isn't always fair. (but hard work helps even things out)

So my perspective is a little different, as my son is also a TOP student. But when the rubber hit the road, and scholarships were being handed out... and school choices being made. It was his ability to swing a bat that made the difference... not his grades. There were several schools that were recruitng my son, which made offers to players who could not qualify for the publically proclaimed academic standards of the school. I became disillusioned... It was if my son's hard work to get good grades meant nothing, in the process. And in the end it was his athletic ability that allowed him to attend the school he eventually chose. (Of course he wouldn't be there if his grades were all Cs)

I have yet to see any college, not REDUCE their academic requirements for an athlete and that includes IVY leagues and other top schools in the country... The same student without top athletic ability would never have a chance at being accepted. I've also seen very high end top notch students get rejected from the same or similar universites. These students had better than 4.0 GPAs and high SAT scores. (I know of several that did not get accpeted at THEIR 1st choice school)

A perfect "PUBLICIZED" example can be read in the book "Moneyball" Billy Beane.... Got Scholarship offered and acceptance to attend Stanford and to play baseball, but signed a pro contract and became NCAA inlegible and then tried to go back and take classes at Stanford, and was told his acceptance was withdrawn... (see pg 13)

So while grades are important... and give you some choices... I wouldn't say "utmost", AND.... IF you really want a lot of choices become that STUD athlete,... coaches find a way. (but it is easier on them if you have good grades)

From everything that I learned when my son went through the recruiting process, Grades come first.

That does not mean their aren't some baseball "*****s" out there. I couldn't believe it when I saw a kid that we know being signed by one of our local D1 programs. This kid in his junior year had a 1.X GPA and was kicked off his HS team for academic reasons. Yet he was signed last week by a top 25 D1 program.

I hope that the NLI was contingent upon this kid passing his classes this year, otherwise I may have to change my belief system.

The NLI is contingent upon the player being admitted to the school as well as being eligible with the Clearinghouse

ILVBB-shame on the school, shame on the parents.

quote:

Originally posted by deldad:
ILVBB-shame on the school, shame on the parents.

Way off topic, but forgive me. I know a kid who was charged with rape of a 14 year old girl, after he signed and before he graduated. He lost his scholly at school X. He plead nolo contendre to a lesser charge got 4 years probation and signed with another top 25 program.

Shame on that school too.

Grades....most important. My kid was not going to be an athlete unless he got the grades....and yes, we let him know we meant it in 6th grade.....school first...we refused to sign him up for Little League because he had received a C in spelling.... no way were we going to be apologizing to him in later life because when raising him we didn't put the emphasis on education....what would we say to him..."Well,we thought you were going to be a professional ball player....."

I know there are kids with special needs, and that is a seperate situation. Think though...that for the majority....we, as parents, need to establish priorities....and for us it made sense to put grades first....

Let's not fool ourselves. We all know it's about winning games and bringing in the almighty dollar.

quote:

Let's not fool ourselves. We all know it's about winning games and bringing in the almighty dollar.

Here's a reality check. For every player like SDBB's son, ( who I consider to be a pretty elite talent) there are thousands of players who will not be heavily courted, and will have to use every means possible to find a fit in college baseball. One of the separators is academics, as good grades not only provide a cushion for the coaching staff, but they help soften the economic blow for mom and dad in the world of equivalency sports.
And no, in fact its rarely about "the almighty dollar", as the percentage of college baseball programs that are self sustaining economically barely register a blip on the radar screen.
If you think your son will play at a D1 program, he'd better have skills for sure. But chances are he'll blend into the landscape that is amateur baseball, a solid player with perhaps above average tools. He'll more than likely have to scrap and battle to get an opportunity to not only find a home, but to get on the field. Above average grades can become an ancillary tool in this process.

uhhh im not sure if someone answered this becuase im in a hurry and i didnt have time to read everything. im a freshman in highschool, and we just got our mid terms. my average is %73 and i am in all academic courses. would this be even considered for a D1 or D2 school. i probly wont ever be D1 material but i was just wondering what it compares too.

I'm not at all about not stressing GRADES First. But I'm telling you the reality I found in College recruiting. And as I mentioned I was disillusioned. Perhaps is was my perception, but this is what I felt from the experiences my son went thru in the recruiting arena. His grades were secondary. As long as he could meet a minimum level, (which all students typcially have to meet to be accepted) that's all coaches worried about... So anything above that minimum level, had very little additional value.... I was befuddled.

I found that only the ELITE schools required grades above the minimum. And even they reduced their Normal standards for athletes.
Take a look at the fine print of the entrance requirements at several schools Here's one for example from a TOP 25 rated academic school.

quote:

We are also very interested in your personal development and background, and we use these elements from the application to increase our understanding of you as a whole person. Consequently, the personal statement forms an integral part of our review process.We consider:

cut...
Exceptional achievements, such as recognition for special talents or extracurricular activities.

This is from an actual application... and is the way coaches can get students with sub-standard grades into the college

I'm not saying that is right, but that is what I experienced.

For Canadiankid07

Is 73% considered ELITE...????
Are your athletic abilities considered ELITE??

One or the other has to be... in order to have all the options you need to get to the college of your choice. You decide, what you can best accomplish. Better if its both. But do realize, which one might eventually affect your ability to get a job in your future...

That's the bottom line.

For your information, I'm discussing RECRUITING.. and I'm talking about VERY GOOD athletes, ELITE, The ones I'm thinking of... over 70% were drafted by an MLB team, 7 of them have earned over a million dollars because of their sports talent in the last 5-7 years. A few more have recieved 6 digit bonuses. Several more have earned scholarships to various schools, with the possiblity of making money via their sports skills in the future. I'm talking top line athletes. Some of which chose to go straight to the pros, and forego school, some didn't. Some... their baseball careers are now over, but they have or are close to a college degree. Some their baseball careers are over and they have no degree, and right now a minimal job. But all are/were very talented in at least one area.

College is a privilege and takes hard work, dedication and skill to realize that privilege.

All I'm saying is in the recruitng arena, and eventual scholarship awards, TOP athletes get more PRIVILEGES than top students... and if you are an average student you had better be one of those ELITE athletes if you want to go to the college of your choice.

Were you privy to the decision making process these athletes underwent? As far as the decision whether to go to college or accept a pro offer? Was it all money driven, or did some accept lower bonuses and decided to play pro because that was their ultimate dream and goal? I have an '08 that is getting noticed. And of course we are very early, he is young, and the communication is very limited. Nonetheless we may be faced with the decision of college or pro and I don't understand how best to advise him.

Please allow me to make a point on why grades can be a positive involving baseball players.

In Florida if a player's grades are a 3.0 and a 970 on the SAT or 20 on the ACT any student can get 75 percent tuition paid for yearly. If they have a 3.5 GPA and a 1270 they get 100 percent tuition paid for yearly.

Almost all Florida public schools take this into account when offering scholarship money to in-state players. This money does not count against the 11.7 baseball scholarships the school offers. Many other states have simular programs to Florida.

http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:OHrfLKeuqGIJ:www.f...n&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1

However, the NCAA also allows something called stacking. If a player's grades are at least a 3.5 or a 1250 on the SAT (I'm not sure on this number) colleges can combine academic and athletic scholarships and the academic numbers do not count against their baseball numbers.

For example, someone has a 3.2 GPA and a 980 on the SAT. They get $5,000 baseball money and $7,000 academic money. All $12,000 counts against the baseball team. In many cases the baseball team cannot allow that as they have given all their monies out (it would put them over the 11.7 limit) and will tell the player to pick one or the other - in this case probably the academic money. That same player who has a 3.6 GPA can get the entire $12,000.

When someone talk about receiving a "full scholarship" it usually combines academics and athletics - not just baseball. So good grades can get you more college money in the long run.

Hopefully, this helps people understand the importance of grades in the NCAA. having said that I can totally understand why some people would be disillusioned when 2.2 GPAs get into Top 25 schools and non-athletes with 4.0s can't get into those same schools.

To reply to the original question by Oriole21 about grades and stud players -in our area of N. CA UC Berkely has one of the best learning disability programs around and they seem to take players that don't have stellar grades but do have documented learning disabilities. Could some of these situations involve players with LD? Sometimes there is more to a situation than we know unless it involves our child.

oriole21...Today colleges are looking for the complete player(STUDENT-athlete). If I were you I would advise your friend to see his counselor and begin to work on his GPA. Alot of good advice has been suggested in this thread. I would also advise that he worry about being a "stud" later...AFTER he has corrected any grade issues. Good things will come with his ability, but only if he is a complete person and a team player in college. The stress associated with college baseball and grades will wear quickly on a player that puts his academics second.

Good luck to him!

Grades, grades, grades, grades....

Can't say it enough. Some parents of other ballplayers would get mad at me when I would ground my son for a B on his report card. His 3.75 unweighted average and a 1250 SAT has opened up more doors for him to play baseball than his 60 yard dash time or his batting average.

quote:

Originally posted by Florida Baseball Guy:
.....However, the NCAA also allows something called stacking. If a player's grades are at least a 3.5 or a 1250 on the SAT (I'm not sure on this number) colleges can combine academic and athletic scholarships and the academic numbers do not count against their baseball numbers......

A D1 instition can award an incoming FR an Academic Honor Award (academic scholarship money) that will not count against their athletic program's Athletic Scholarships, if any one of the following critera are met by the perspective student/athlete:

1. Top 10% in their HS graduating class, or
2. Achieved a 3.5 based upon a 4.0 scale in their core HS courses, or
3. A minimum sum ACT score of 105, or
4. A minimum SAT score of 1200.

See the section below from the NCAA's D1 bylaws:

15.5.3.2.1.1 Academic Honor Awards. Academic honor awards that are part of an institution’s
normal arrangements for academic scholarships, based solely on the recipient’s high
school record and awarded independently of athletics interests and in amounts consistent
with the pattern of all such awards made by the institution, are exempt from an institution’s
equivalency computation, provided the recipient was ranked in the upper 10 percent of the high school graduating class or achieved a core-course grade-point average of at least 3.500 (based on a maximum of 4.000) or a minimum ACT sum score of 105 or a minimum SAT score of 1200. (Adopted: 1/12/99 effective 8/1/99)

For the college student/athlete to continue to receive the Academic Honor Award throughout his college career, he must maintain a cumulative GPA of 3.0 out of 4.0.

See the section below from the NCAA's D1 bylaws:

15.5.3.2.1.1.2 Renewals. The renewal of an academic honor award (per Bylaw 15.5.3.2.1) is exempt from an institution’s equivalency computation, provided: (Adopted: 1/12/99 effective 8/1/99)

(a) The recipient achieves a cumulative grade-point average of at least 3.000 (based
on a maximum of 4.000) at the certifying institution; and

(b) The recipient meets all NCAA, conference and institutional progress toward degree requirements.

2z

Tuz

I believe the highest ACT score is 36.

quote:

Originally posted by Marina:
Tuz

I believe the highest ACT score is 36.

Marina, you add together all the scores from each section of the ACT.

our son is now out of college and in the minors. We were at a showcase in arizona and I was standing next to a coach, coach was looking at act scores and scratching off kids that had low scores. They look at grades very close.

Around here if your failing 2 or more classes (regardless of what classes they are, even the stupid classes) no sports for you, no matter what the back of your jersey says.

some D1 schools have a personal cut-off of a 3.5. If a player has been taking honors courses and the weighted curve is stacked against the player, they will take a 3.38 or higher. Mainly, it's about having a 3.5 or higher. Once they see that, then they look at ACT, SAT scores to see. If the ACT, SAT scores don't look good, and the GPA is 3.5 or above, then the recommendation is to get a tutor and study hard again for the ACT and take that (you can take that at any time) and once you have a good score on that (1010 SAT or a 86 ACT) then you are off to the races. D1's are tough.

GPA and Standardized tests tell different things about a student.

GPA signals that a student is able to take care of everyday school responsibilities (studying, participating, showing up, turning in required work, studying for tests. etc). Standardized tests tell you how the student understands what is being taught.

If a school's general requirememnts are high SAT/ACT scores that means that is the level that the courses are taught on. The higher the SAT required, the more difficult the school is.
In recruiting, coaches very rarely are able to find the right combination of talent, SAT scores and GPA, so they make concessions. For example my son had very high GPA but lower SAT requirement for admissions. His high GPA indicated he was organized, responsible in the classroom and good time management. But he often required help of tutors to help him understand what was presented in class. While some of his friends had much GPA but very high SAT, they required less assistance in their classwork.
A student with lower GPA and lower test results, these days, will most likely have more difficulty obtaining scholarships at D1 schools.

quote:

A student with lower GPA and lower test results, these days, will most likely have more difficulty obtaining scholarships at D1 schools.

I believe that this is generally true; however, I think that there are still a number of exceptions to the rule. Looking at a number of D1 programs in Louisiana (Louisiana Tech, Univ. of LA at Lafayette, Univ. of LA at Monroe, Nicholls State, and Southeastern LA Univ.), students in the 25th-75th percentiles scored 18-20 on the low end and 22-24 on the high end for the ACT. A 19-23 ACT range equates to 810-1020 on the SAT, which doesn't exactly require the brains of a rocket scientist.

During a visit to TCU (a top 25 baseball program) on Junior Day in late April, a parent asked the recruiting coordinator what the average SAT was for the team. His answer was about 1000, with some players scoring as low as 900 or 950. (Compare this to TCU students as a whole, who scored between a 1060 and 1260 on the SAT in the 25th-75th percentiles. I believe we were told that TCU receives 13,000 applications per year and only about 1,800 are accepted.) The recruiting coordinator then went into great detail about the university's commitment to ensure their athletes' academic success: 8 mandatory study-hall hours per week in the first semester of freshman year (no more study hall required if players maintain a 3.0 or higher); weekly small group meetings with a coach mentor who keeps tabs on players' academics; priority registration for all athletes; on-line lectures and class notes for many classes that the players miss; charter bus with study tables; career development programs such as etiquette dinners, dress for success, interviewing skills, and resume workshops. Despite the team's low SAT average coming into the school, the team's average GPA at TCU is above 3.0.

Oftentimes, low GPA's and test scores in high school don't necessarily reflect a student's inability to understand or do the work; rather, they indicate that his priorities (at this point in his life) are elsewhere. With a little prodding and accountability from the college athletics program, it's amazing what these athletes are capable of in the classroom.

Your post supposts my thoughts.

Again, the lower the SAT/ACT the easier the course material. Most D1 programs offer all of the above assistance for their student athletes. Some programs have better support academic than others. My son had to sit 10 mandatory hours a week in study hall.

However, with new NCAA reguirements to stay on track, limited roster spots, a coach is going to have a difficult time convincing those above him that a player with low GPA and SAT/ACT will be a good choice for their program.

You're right, CaBB - We don't know everyone's personal situation. Athletic departments aren't above reproach, but diversity builds a campus community. Better walk a mile in someone's shoes before criticizing others...

I will add that grades can also affect elite players who only want to get drafted. We know an elite player who took the low road through school and failed to take the SAT. This meant no bargaining chip and drafted far lower than he deserved, costing him big $$$

Grades are part of your business. Take care of it.

Brod,

I agree but....
On the other hand, know of a player who had very poor grades and went JUCO, did lose his bargaining chip, got drafted lower than he wanted and went draft and follow, had a great JUCO year in baseball and just received over a million for his efforts.

Then that's what I call a lucky son of a gun! So much for college like our boys...

Wait - did he marry a Playboy bunny, and win the lottery too?

Great thread that I will be sure to pass on to my son. He is 12 but has big dreams.(Didn't we all at 12 His mom and I will continue to try and help him maintain all As.

We also have some first hand family experiance. My wife's cousin was drafted out of highschool as a RHP throwing 92-94 his Sr. HS year. He went in the 10th round because he had few if any D1 offers because of his grades. It cost him a chance of playing in college and a whole lot of dollars. He sure wishes he had listened to his parents as he sweats his you know what off in rookie camp with a whole bunch of strangers.

To put it in perspective, think about how much a pro team might offer a kid with no college offers throwing 94 mph versus a kid throwing 94 mph all day with an offer from Miami.

Which kid gets the better offer? Get the grades!



Bill

I'm curious about how or if high school grades translate to college grades for athletes? By that I mean if a player is barely a 3.0 in an unremarkable public school what might his college gpa look like considering college is much harder? How much does the academic tutoring in place @ college help these athletes?

This was a benchmark I was told to go by. SAT scores.
If the school requires a 14-1500 SAT, and your son scores 1000 (using an example), the overall course work may be too difficult. GPA is a tough indicator in some cases because of varying classes taken in HS (honors coursework vs. regualr classes).

Mine was a very good student, with all honor classes, but when he went off to school, his comment about classes, "this isn't HS".

Don't overload your player with more than he might be able to handle, college is difficult as is, throw in baseball and it gets more complicated.

I pulled this from a press release on the NCAA's website:

"It is the first time since the federated governance structure in 1997 that a legislative concept has been overridden twice. The original proposal, which was among four adopted from the Baseball Academic Enhancement Working Group in April, required individual financial aid packages for baseball student-athletes to include at least 33 percent athletics aid. After the first membership override, the Board decided to lower the percentage of required aid to individual players to 25 percent and to allow all countable aid – not just athletics aid – to be included in the calculation toward the minimum."


Has the new language that the NCAA is trying to pass/has passed for baseball (I'm so confused), now allow both baseball scholarship money, and academic honor awards (academic money) to be counted against the 11.7?

If it does this is a change, as it seemed previously that only baseball scholarship money counted against the 11.7, and the academic money did not as long as the student/athlete met the requirements I outlined in my post above.

My Post Above Regarding Academic Honor Awards Not Counting Against Baseball Scholarship Money

How is this a good thing? Seems like D1 baseball is now equally as expensive for even the academically gifted student that would have got the academic money a long with the baseball money.

NICE!

Tuzigoot, as I understand it, this is a change. The new NCAA legislation now allows academic aid to count along with baseball money toward the 25% minimum. The thinking by some is that this allows schools which are not fully funded to compete with schools that are fully funded.

It does seem to be detrimental financially to those good students who would have gotten academic money in addition to baseball money.

The 25% is a minimum that can be a combination of baseball and academics. I do beleve only athletic $$ is included in the 11.7.

I get confused too.

But with having to give out 25% as minimum, you better beleive they are going to try to get in as many as they can with academic money, and save for the ones who don't qualify or as the lure away from other schools (ya got that).

quote:

Originally posted by Infield08:
.....The thinking by some is that this allows schools which are not fully funded to compete with schools that are fully funded.....

I thought the same. Additionally, I think it negates the advantage that some schools possessed that allowed them to recruit in-state student/athletes, and give them significant rides just with academic money a lone, and not dig in to their baseball money. Like the HOPE scholarship in Georgia. Now if all the money counts, it evens the playing field, and schools like Georgia no longer have the HOPE scholarship that gives them a significant recruiting advantage over other schools which they compete against for student/athletes. But it doesn't help the cost of college for the kids and their parents.

Can somebody run this past their friend at the NCAA.

Getting bad grades in HS usually means eventuallybeing academically ineligible to even play hs ball let alone getting into a decent college.

I think if you are a STUD, the grades probably are not AS important, though still matter. I think if you are a top 20 program, academics may not be at the top of your priority list, but still matter. But, for all the talented, potential, college players not categorized as the STUDs or 1 percenters, I don't see how good grades and especially academic money can't be helpful. My son just went on a visit to a top ten DII. It is also a very good school. The coaches told him, if he didn't have the academics he has, he would not have been invited. They will not even look at a kid with below a 3.0. Also, last year my son went to a camp at a top 25 DI school. I sat behind the HC as numerous kids came up to speak with him one on one. Without exception his first questions were what is your g.p.a. and what did you make on the ACT/SAT?? If the answer wasn't good, he started talking JUCO with them. I really respected him after hearing his comments. Likewise, we have a very talented LHP(89)/CF(6.8 60) on our team with bad grades. He is getting very few calls. So, if you are not working hard to make the very best grades that you are capable of, you are hurting yourself.

A dumbell in school raises red flags in that it questions a players maturity and capacity to handle responsibliity.

I have somewhat of a different view. You have to have somewhat decent grades, however straight A's never guaranteed anyone anything. Why go to college? to be a poor starving college student then turn into a poor starving consumer of society.

I think if your good, willing to take a risk and have the charisma to captures peoples attention you can achieve many goals. That is what they should be teaching in schools today.

I have to say two of the most influential books I have read this year would be "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" and "The millionaire next door". A teacher didn't suggest for me to read those, my dad did.

I was talking with a college coach a while back and he mentioned that he oftentimes will offer athletic money later on down the line to walk-ons or recruited walk-ons who make a contribution to the team. What surprised me was his comment that grades are the first thing he takes into consideration when deciding whether to give them athletic money. I'm guessing his concern is that a poor student could drag down his APR.

Every D1 coach I talked to asked about grades 1st. A poor student that he gived athletic money to will risk the money because he might become ineligible. Better to risk that money on a good student athlete.
Coaches will say they will try to find money if any comes available. Usually not the 1st year. The big cocern is that with thye new rules and the fact they have you cheap you may not get much. They know you have to sit if you leave so they have more leverage to pay you as little as possible.

Good grades and test scores, simply put, open more doors and opportunities for a good player. If I had it to all over again, I would have spent a bit more money on test prep and tutoring (and we did spend SOME money in those areas) than a hitting instructor. Son got lucky and, with average grades, got into a good college. I know that, without baseball, he wouldn't have gotten a second look from the admissions people. It mattered tremendously that the high school he attended was very academic. I think that if he attended a less rigorous school and had the same grades, he might not be where he is today. We now have a high school freshman daugther who wants to play college basketball. Completely different situation for her: she has to work very hard athletically where our son had just natural ability. Daughter also struggles a bit with academics but is much more motivated to improve grades than son. We are concentrating on academics with her (tutoring and regular progess reports from teachers) because we know that come recruiting time, she may be overlooked (plus she is NOT a 6'5" amazon) if her grades don't stand out.

This may be a baseball forum, but I'm familiar with some top athletes. I will drop some names with Michael Huff of the Oakland Raiders, nee the University of Texas, Jim Thorpe Award winner, and All-America defensive back. His step-brother was also an excellent athlete at the University of Missouri, a very good football player in his own right. Their parents always stressed the fact that academics was the top priority and if they didn't make the marks they felt acceptable, they wouldn't be allowed to participate in sports. Perhaps some of you parents need to draw the line in the sand at an early age to set a strong example that their studies are as, or more important, if they expect to become a special athlete.

To participate is a privilage, not a right. These two young men mentioned above are excellent examples of what parenting was meant to be about.
____________________________________________________________________________________

quote:

Originally posted by NYyankeeboi:
Why go to college? to be a poor starving college student then turn into a poor starving consumer of society.

Care to make that comment clear? I find no logic or sense in what was written.

Texan, I think that pretty much illustrates where the original comment was coming from.

Drawing the line in the sand when it comes to sports is a pretty daunting task. Son played with a kid back in grade school and into middle school. Kid had talent but struggled academically. Sports kept him on track emotionally and socially, though. He was kind of a loner..might not have had much social stuff going on if he didn't have sports. Anyway, parents finally drew the line when it came to high school: kid went to a very academic high school and parents told him he needed a 3.0 to play (not a school standard..this was a parent standard). Kid never played a day of sports in high school. The mom and I ran into each other a few weeks back and she says it was a very tough four years with him not playing sports. he was miserable..got into other troubles, etc. Made it to college and tried to walk on to a football team...figured he had no shot at baseball..but he's a big, meaty kid and thought football might work. Didn't get a shot. Mad at parents now for years. The mom said to me: "We should have pulled him out of baseball in 6th grade and spent a year working on his grades...it would have been hard back then but I think he would have gotten it together".

My son's club team has a 3.0 CUMULATIVE GPA requirement. Their position is that they are representing to the colleges that their players are not only great athletes, but scholars as well.

The management of the club team went one step further and explained how salary negotiations work if your stud is not a 1st rounder. They explained that Pro Teams calculate compensation on the premise that they need to lure you away from college ball. So if your stud is a D student, your stud is costing himself money at the negotiation table.

Here is an excerpt from their letter:

quote:

OK, so you’re a First Round Bonus Baby. Now, a First Round Bonus Baby is a First Round Bonus Baby so those guy’s don’t have to worry. But like most of the population, your not one of those guy’s and the scouts are projecting you somewhere after the 3rd or 4th rounds. Yes, first off, they will assess your “signability” and if you are worth the dollar figure this represents. For arguments sake, let’s just say you are. Now as graduation day – and also Draft day approaches, suddenly your grades have slipped down that icy slope. Believe this, EVERYONE will know. Suddenly, your looking at possibly losing your scholarship because your not going to clear the NCAA Clearinghouse, your GPA vs. SAT scores aren’t going to cut it, etc. etc. Well, you can be assured that any Bonus Money they were willing to give you is dropping quicker than your GPA. THEY ARE BUSINESS MEN FIRST. Why would they offer you now a Bonus of $90k , $250k, $???? if YOU HAVE NO OPTIONS ? Answer : THEY WON’T. You can kiss your Bonus money good bye and they’ll start the offer at $1,000 and a bus ticket. Have a nice day and welcome to pro baseball. OK, so these seem pretty dramatic, but trust us. They are not that far off the truth. Hopefully, they are giving you the message that no matter what road you choose, YOU MUST HAVE OPTIONS. OPTIONS = COLLEGE EDUCATION =
GOOD GRADES = BARGAINING CHIP = YEP – OPTIONS.

I also believe that grades can be a deciding factor on who plays varsity and who stays in JV. If I'm a coach, I'd want to know that I can count on my starters staying eligible.

bad grades out of high schools some d-1 may send u to a jr college and watch over you and get you to graduate from a jc. And your pretty much good to go if you graduate fron a jc and your tram likes you.

Grades don't exactly limit. Not naming names, but I know of a situation where a kid with a 2.5 cumulative and a 1250/1600 on the SATs got him phone calls/ hard recruiting from Wake Forest, NC State, Boston College, Maryland, Virginia Tech, East Carolina, Coastal Carolina, Houston as well as many more. Now he was an athletic big guy with a consistent low 90s fastball.

hhh...the player you speak of....where did he end up going to school? In many cases coaches will notice athletes first. As discussions continue grades will be more and more of a topic of conversation. If you have a low GPA you better really do well on the SAT's, ACT, etc. and if you have a high GPA then it allows you for a lower SAT's but the bottom line is this......The better the Student Athlete the more opportunities you'll provide yourself down the recruitment road. Don't fool yourself in to thinking that if you're a stud, grades don't matter because in the end you'll lose.

quote:

Originally posted by j2h6:
hhh...the player you speak of....where did he end up going to school? In many cases coaches will notice athletes first. As discussions continue grades will be more and more of a topic of conversation. If you have a low GPA you better really do well on the SAT's, ACT, etc. and if you have a high GPA then it allows you for a lower SAT's but the bottom line is this......The better the Student Athlete the more opportunities you'll provide yourself down the recruitment road. Don't fool yourself in to thinking that if you're a stud, grades don't matter because in the end you'll lose.

j2h6, great post. Good players with bad grades will have very very few 4-year college opportunities, while those with good grades will have many opportunities. Every year I see great players who lose promising college opportunities because of bad grades. Remember, you only get one opportunity, so get it all together, and it all starts with good grades.

I think what those that are preparing for high school must bring away from this subject is that grades just don't "happen" for most kids. They need to know early on that YOU as parents have a certain expectation of what is acceptable. YOU as a parent have to know (do your homework, and ask counselors) what classes they have to take for college prep. Make a timeline for your student as to what must be achieved each year of high school. Set your GPA standard, go to the Clearinghouse and educate yourself, now before they hit high school. If they get an unacceptable grade, let them know what the consequences will be and follow through. Also make your student athlete aware that they will have to go to summer school to retake classes with and undesirable grade. If you and your student athlete can go over this information together and make them aware that if these academic requirements are not met, they will be not be considered at XYZ colleges.
The timeline is a great tool - get it on to your family calendar, or one he keeps in his room, and cross of requirements as they are acheieved, it give a sense of progress - both of you need to be involved. There are always exceptions - I know of a student that was quite brilliant, but received poor grades, yet scored nearly perfect on his SAT & ACT, he wasn't really lazy, but did think he knew more than what he was being taught (probably true), but just didn't turn assignments in.
For the majority of us, it is important to set goals early - decide what is expected. It is amazing what kids will achieve when you have the slightest involvement. As much as we want them to be self managers, you probably want to keep your hand in their progression - schools don't always have the time or resources to keep track of every student - sad but true.
Bottom line - all you pre-high school parents, educate yourselves and your kids NOW about how to get to the academic/athletic "next level".