Grades to play JuCo

I believe for Junior college or Juco as it is called in other states just have requirement of graduating from highschool.Now they have to take placement tests for math and English, and if they do not pass with a certain score then they have to take remedial classes , which do not trasnfer to a four year school. So if they want to have enough units to move on to a four year school after two years,they would have to take summer school classes.
Juco is a good place for the less mature college student.My son had good enough grades to go to almost any four year school with baseball out of highschool, and it was still pretty grueling with school and baseball.he was at a JUCO.
He has to stay on top of it, becasue if you do not pass enough units you will not be elgible to play Juco ball either.
12 units plus baseball is a lot of work, and even good students struggle.Yes your son can do it, but he will need to work hard, maybe go to tutoring if he really struggles, and do summer school.
My son is taking an online GE class this summer, 3 units, pretty easy, he could of done two.Just to make the school year a little easier.
Good luck wuth your son.

My sons school still required entrance exams even with good SAT scores.Maybe its different at different schools.

Fanofgame speaks the truth. 12hrs and baseball is a FULL load for student-athletes. My son has grown exponentially in what is important and priorities now. Though it has been a struggle during the past year for him he has learned so much about what is expected of him now.

Younggun was a A/B student in HS. But in JUCO (or any level) he didn't apply himself much and paid the price. He is now taking 12hrs this summer to get caught up and maybe a little ahead.

JUCO is a great way for a student who needs to mature in many ways, not just academically.

Good luck.

quote:

Though it has been a struggle during the past year for him he has learned so much about what is expected of him now.

I am glad he is learning.My son went though some rough patches as well.It is quite an adjustment from HS to college, and will be more of one when they get to a 4 year. Hopefully they will have learned and are ready for the next step.

FOG,

Son is going to play at a local JC here in Northern California. He has signed up for classes. Have been following your post and had a chance to watch your son play he is a wonderful player. You have a wonderful insight to JC ball. Son is set to take 16 units this fall plus baseball. Is this too much? We want to make sure he will be able to go to a 4 year when done at the JC. I would appreciate and advice as far as classes, etc. and any advice on pitfalls to avoid.

gimages,

First thank you for the nice words about my son.Second congrats that your son will get a shot to play at the next level.
16 units is doable(is that a word)? LOL.My son did 14 last fall, it was tough but he did it and maintained 3.5.But the second semester he could not have done it at all.
Please feel free to PM me if you have any questions you want to ask.
Pitfalls: lots of JC players do not take academics serious, and it is the reason many do not go on to a 4 year university to play ball.They party too much skip class, and dont take their school seriously.
Because your son will just be 18, there will be 21 year olds most likely on the team. They can buy alcohol and many party.That will occur at any college.Your son will need to make a conscious decision as to what really matters to him.
My son had a difficult time the second semester, but was able to pull it out and end up with decent grades.He has now realized that his grades and his abilities will get him to the next level and for this I am most grateful.he has seen players have no where to go yet and its July.They didnt take care of business.
Your son will need to prioritize, make decisions about his future.Is he living at home? My son lived out the second semester and it was a huge lesson in life, but looking back I am glad he did it.
We recently went on a recruiting trip, the head coach told my son , you have two stats that I am interested in: baseball stats and academic stats. grades, what type of classes he took etc.he told my son that with his grades and his stats that he will have a lot of options next year.
So if I can say anything of importance to you and to all parents going through the JC process:
1.take the right classes (Gimages use the IGETSCE worksheet, it covers state schools, UC and the privates use it as well.
2. Students :go to class thats half the battle.When it comes time for final grades,and you are struggling but the teacher sees that you have worked hard, and have been at every class sometimes that can go in your favor. they will work with you more
3.learn how to manage your time: study, practice, weights, free time(what there is of it).
4.DO not get into grade trouble: At a JC you can play in the fall without full time units, then in spring you have to be enrolled in 12. but 3 is baseball so logistically you could only take 9.many players do this, but then the following fall you have to have I think 20 completed and by spring of 2nd year 24.So if you lollygag that first year you will be introuble the second.
5. take an online class during the summer. Take 2 if you can.My son took one this summer, it was a transferable class and it was pretty easy and he got three untis out of the way.
6. Work hard: they are watching,and many, many 4 year schools recruit from JC.

Gimages, let me know where your son will play.If he is in N. Ca we might run into one another.
advice to you: enjoy every minute if it, I had a blast thislast year.Met some great people, players and parents, watched every game I could get to and enjoyed all of it.Best of luck to your son and his baseball career.

FOG,

You have a private message.

Nice post, fanofgame...............

Very nice post Fanofgame... My son is also attended a JC last year and everything you said is definitely right on the money.

A couple of minor additions:

1) Here is a link to a website that has the information on the articulation agreements between CA JCs and the UCs and CSU. It is an online version of the IGETC information. It also has a bunch of links to other useful sites (e.g. UC admissions)

http://www.assist.org/web-assist/welcome.html

2) My advice on what classes to take is to focus on classes that are marked in the catalog as UC transferable. Some classes only transfer to the CSU system and those are to be avoided. Everything that is UC transferable will go to the CSUs as well as to nearly all private schools.

3) Check out the NCAA site as well. Here is a useful publication:

http://www.ncaapublications.co...8a9-6456c9b98957.pdf

Determine if your son is a qualifier out of HS as this may impact how many units he has to take before transferring.

Here is a link to the transfer guide:

http://www.ncaapublications.co...spx?sku=TGONLINE2008

Extremely useful in understanding how to transfer.

Happy to answer questions via PM as well.

08

quote:

Determine if your son is a qualifier out of HS as this may impact how many units he has to take before transferring.

This is of most significance and a well brought up point.I was blown away at the number of parents who had no idea what this meant.Do your homework and make sure you understand this.
My son was a qualifier, the difference is 24 units to transfer the first and 48 needed instead of 60 for a non qualifier.
To be a qualifier, get on the NCAA site and read up on it.You have to take the right number of academic classes in HS as well as take SAT and register with NCAA your junior year.
This can really open doors for you in the recruiting process down the road.

Its eqully important to find a JC counsler and coach that understands the transfer rules and will make calls for you about you eligability and point you in the right direction.

JC Transfer issues you might encounter:

-Some D1 coaches don't really know the transfer rules and tell you they are interested but don't think you'd be eliegable to play. A good counsler and coach can straightened out a few of these coaches....but not all, some don't want to admit they were wrong and/or others don't want to be bothered with complications.

-A school invested time recruiting a player only to find out from their compliance officer there was a special UC transfer rule that would apply to him and there was no way he could ever transfer there. Talking to the schools complaince officer before going to far in a complicated situation can avoid alot issues.

-A CSU on the semester system could not adequatly "convert" a players' quarter units into semester units, I am not sure if there are many JC's on the quarter system, however if you transfer to a 4 year school on quarters you need to make sure you have completed a course series before transferring (i.e. JC has Chem 1a & 1b taken over a two semesters, the UC on quarters has the equilent class over 3 quarters..Chem 1a, 1b, and 1c , if you only complete Chem 1a at the JC you are kind of screwed when trying to complete the series at the UC and vice-versa)

-You may find that your grades in lower division classes aren't high enough to get you into the 4 year school in your desired major. i.e. UCLA wants you but you have a 2.9 in lower division engineering, you won't get into the UCLA engineering program, you may have to change majors or find another school. Talk to the compliance officer or coach about you major before investing alot of time with them, unless you are ok with changing your major.

-You may turn away schools that don't have your intened major only to discover you have to change you major anyway because that 2.9 in lower division engineering won't get you into any other engineering program! Don't be to quick to decline a discussion to a school based upon your intended major.

-Some 4 years schools will wait until late in the spring to figure out their JC needs for next year.

Thanks all for all the wonderful information. It has really helpful and I now feel we know what to do and look for as son attends the local JC. Another big thank you for all the offers of help via private messages. As things come up I plan on asking for that help. I found this web site several years ago and count it as a blessing. Thanks once again.

I wanted to bup this post as my son is looking to go to a JUCO program next year. He has good grades but he will be a 16yr old senior , early b-day syndrome, and we are thinking JUCO ball will be the better route. He is currently playing summer ball for the JUCO coaches that he is interested in playing and really gets a good feel from them. Anyhow , would it be best fo rhim to take an online course next year before heading to class.

This is a tremendous forum and a forum I will be checking back on frequently.

Once again he has good grades and can tryout for a 4 yr program but JUCO seems to be the best route before moving to a 4 yr program.

Thanks....

I think an online class is a great idea. My son took one this summer and it was pretty good. He actually likes the online and will do one in the fall and possibly two in the spring during baseball.If he can take a class each summer then take 12 each semester he will have his 60 units. Good luck.

.

GREAT thread I'll agree...and highlight....and support...and add...

My younger just finished 3 years of CA JC Ball and is headed to DI...


1. DO NOT get behind academically at JC. Cannot stress that enough.

2. SECRET, HIDDEN AND IMMEDIATE POSSIBLE TROUBLE AT CA JC...Many players in CA may be qualifiers and have good HS careers...but many test low on the JC enrance tests and have to take remedial math and/or English (the JC's love to do this because it is more business) which are both huge unit grabbers (9 units total) and DO NOT transfer. This puts a player behind IMMMEIATELY almost a full grading period. While this may seem simply dealt with with summer school, add summer ball, and you are suddenly struggling Be aware. You will have to plan to catch back up.

3. THE UC TRACK IS NOT FOOLPROOF...Regardless of the UC track, some of the privates may have a different unit transfer policy. We were very, very diligent with the UC track figuring that it left all doors open...took lots of units...and 44jr#2 got into UC Davis on academics alone just fine...and then was recruited unbidden by LMU and was told that he'd have to take two summer school courses just to be eligible in the fall.

4. STAY MAJOR SPECIFIC IF POSSIBLE...Talk to your son early about career ideas. If he has a goal start now. Don't believe the myth that this is all prereq's so experiment and try various things some. For athletes it is not. In order to stay on NCAA graduation guidelines, AND keep all your option open for a major you need to start thinking clearly now about what you want to major in at a 4 year and taking the RIGHT courses for that particular major/s. It is easier to choose a major path (say business) and back into something else than it is to take an undecided path and then decide to be a buisness major. Like most, mine, had no idea so worked hard kept as many options open as he could, and his options for a major were limited at 4 year because the did not "specialize" early enough to finish in 2 years at the 4 year. Not a disaster, just be aware. Don't be surprised.

5. PE/BASEBALL UNITS...some may disappear and not transfer to various schools...and there may be one limit for JC #'s, another for UC and another for a different schools. Research.

6. JC COUSELORS...I don't want to throw a blanket of condemnation over them all but many JC couselors have no real clue about the gauntlet of academic rules regulations and deadlines that the NCAA has thrown up for 2-4, 4-2-4 trasnfers. And even if they know the're stressed, overworked and have little time to really counsel and guide and steer athletes with the care/detail that they need. In many cases your pretty much on your own.

7. ACADEMIC/LIFE SUPPORT...ibid...While there are some JC's that are WONDERFUL for academics and life support (Butte) at many/most schools you are pretty much on your own. Put an 18 year old away from home for the first time, in his own apartment, in a college/party atmosphere, with little academic wiggleroom, little time wiggleroom, and no "keeper"..and you are asking for trouble. Frankly most are better off to live at home for the first year.

8. THE 3 YEAR/REDSHIRT PLAN...Be aware that many of the better CA JCs are doing this...academically it can be done, Younge did this, but but it adds another level of pitfalls and concerns. Be aware. Research.

9. ONLINE...while I am big fan of online be aware how discpined your son is. Some need the structure and personal interaction offered by a regular scheudle and the human touch.

10. FALL REQUIREMENTS...At the 4 years lots of the heavy academic lifting gets done in the fall because of the tight NCCA limits on fall practice....While the CA JC schedule has been curtailed some, the CA JC's fall schedule is larely unregulated putting some pressure on academics in the fall.

44
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All of this "stuff" about transferrable classes, etc. is enough to make one go insane. However, it doesn't mean you can go putting your head in the sand. You have to do your due diligence every step of the way. I truly do feel for the kids who just never knew during high school what was required besides good grades to be eligible down the road. often it is too late in different aspects as we all know.

We registered son for NCAA Clearinghouse during his Junior year, etc. He took the appropriate amount of "core" classes to be a qualifier, and made an decent score on his SAT and ACT. I'm sure that when we give his high school transcripts to Admissions that any coach worth his weight finds out which of his players are eligible to transfer on (after JUCO). Maybe I'm gullible in thinking this. I do still know however that this doesn't negate us from keeping him eligible in other areas.

How do you go to the NCAA Clearinghouse to find out if THEY show if you are a qualifier or not? I wonder if I ever had his SAT or ACT scores sent to the NCAA....

Observer 44,
Great post and some great info.Really important point about the remedial classes, and that is why many JC players have to go to JC three years.
As far as knowing if your a qualifier, if you go onto the NCAA and sign in there is a place to check your sons status.It will say wheter or not he is a qualifier.
It is hard to know exactly what classes transfer, as some schools are different,but we stuck with IGETSCE and so far all schools that have looked at his transcrips,say all his classes transfer.
It is tough when your son does not know what he wants to major in.And it is hard to go back and esp. do business if you havent taken any of the pre reqs.
I agree with O44 about living at home the first year.It is a lot to handle.
I think all athletes in HS, should be attempting to be a quailifier out of HS if possible.
I helped my son choose his first year of classes.If you go with the Engcomp A and B, a solid math class,Speech,etc.all the HAVE TO HAVE classes to transfer youll be ok.Its when kids jump all over the place and waste units that they get into trouble.
I am sure many kids lose a few clases here and there when they transfer.Its hard when you dont know what you want to do, or where you want to go.

O44,

Great post. Thanks so much.

Son spent a session with JC consuler and have to say it for whatever reason the consuler was not very helpful and did not seem to be into helping. We were lost and still confused about JC academics. We have recieved more valuable info from this thread. With the info from this thread we were able to make an JC academic map for the next couple of years that we feel confident in.

Son failed the first english placement test at his JC. Had him take it over and he passed. This was important as now he will not lose a semester with a class that will not transfer. You can take the test twice. He passed the mathe placement test.

I have to say that this entire college thing is bit confussing but this thread has helped out so very much.

Thanks all keep it comming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: the counsler not being to helpful, I would have him talk to the bb coach to direct him to a more helpful counsler and/or some coaches are very knowldegable about classes and transfers, you just have to ask. However, it ultimatly comes down to the srudent, a student that ignores the details of planning and taking responsibility his college career will strugle.....

I'll have to add that many of the issues mentioned above, less then helpful counsler, needing to take biz classes before hitting the 3rd year.....exist at d1 schools also.

I'll just reiterate that I would be extremly weary of my son taking online classes at the JC or D1, you are just asking for trouble with these classes as they are the classes most likely to not transfer to another school.

btw my son's JC counsler was very good and spent time figuring out the revisions to the 4-2-4 rules and even discussed my sons situation with the NCAA staff. Find a counsler that wants to help.

quote:

Son failed the first english placement test at his JC. Had him take it over and he passed. This was important as now he will not lose a semester with a class that will not transfer. You can take the test twice. He passed the mathe placement test.

great !!!!.That in itself saves him two remedial classes and he wont get behind.
I understand concern for online classes, but if its a reg. sanctioned class why would it not transfer?Is that something you heard, because my son took one this summer and it transferred.So if you know something more about that I would like to know.

FOG,

What have you heard about telecourses? Thinking about doing one of these this fall.

Can't stress enough on how helpful all of this information is. I appreciate everyone's input as well.

I haven't heard anything negative about them, except that the kid does have to be responsible.They offer a lot of them through the school, which is what we did.They have the math, english history, all of it so do not know why it would not transfer.
I am doing my bachelors through a state school.It is almost all online, except for a few meetings and its great.They make you read, take the quizzes and tests,and even have discussion groups on there/
So I dont know what the problem is, thats why I was asking others who have stated they might not trasfer. My sons transferred as some schools already ran his transcripts.

I also have to question the statement about "most likely to not transfer to another school..."

I believe in today's technological society along with schools trying to appeal to the masses that they would not offer the benefits of online courses if they were not legit and transferable.

I would agree with that statement if the online courses were not offered by a bonafide University or College like these "strip mall" schools you see advertised late night on TV.

My son took one last Christmas break and is taking 2 more this summer along with 2 regular classes.

quote:

Originally posted by YoungGunDad:
I also have to question the statement about "most likely to not transfer to another school..."

.

IMO

I would make sure son has checked the transferability of the on-line class, no different then any other live class. My nephew took on-line golf, I am not sure it transfers My son took some kind of on-line art class that only applied towards his AA, which he needed to resolve his 4-2-4 issue.

A good live teacher and interaction with classmates can make a significant contribution to your kids education.

I am going to have son check out this with counselor.He is taking anthropology on line next semester.It is the same credits as reg. anthro.I really dont think an online class or two is going to hurt your interaction with peers and teachers.
I have never heard of online golf.But I see that there is Alg, english , history,all the reg classes on line.
But I will clarify this with school.It seems odd that there are so many on line clases now, that say they transfer to UC or state schools.When my son interviewed with a private school they took his online class without any hesitation.
Ill let everyone know if I hear something different.

Do you need over 48 transferbale credits to be good to go for transfer? or do you need your A.A. degree? It might differ in diff states i guess

thanks to everyone for the information shared in this topic.

son has been recruited by mid-major dI and dII but we've decided to go the juco route for many reasons. the heads-up listed here regarding transfer issues will be of termendous help.

.

quote:

Originally posted by TheOutfielder30:
Do you need over 48 transferbale credits to be good to go for transfer? or do you need your A.A. degree? It might differ in different states i guess

Suggestions...get really educated...read this thread thoroughly, and search out others on the HSBBW...there are asome good recent ones. Talk to your coach, talk to your counselor, Talk to any schools that are interested, and specifically talk to to the athletic academic advisors and admissions departments...talk to the NCAA...then double check it all. It is a great skill to be able to hunt down information and resources and to take the responsibility for it. Great opportunity to make some respected contact wth all those parties.

Questions to ask yourself...are/were you a qualifier out of HS? What year are you leaving, year 1, 2, or 3? Where are you likley headed? What do you want to major in at a 4 year? (best to get started and make big progress in that direction now, at JC, if you do know. It only gets harder the longer you wait). Do you want to leave all your options open? Do you want to leave anything to chance? To skirt by? Or do you want to achieve?

If it is me, I go for the 60 unit AA (qualifier or not), And I get well over over unit #'s neeeded for that if possible, and I make sure that as many/all classes transfer everywhere (as as best I can tell), I keep my GPA high, and I make "major" progress. IMO, If you are smart you leave as little to chance as possible....there are always suprises, rules changes, classes that do not transfer to specific school/major, athletes often lose PE credits in the transfer. At the moment, given the NCAA, a high academic record is VERY important and hihgly valuable in the recruting process...fight for it the same way that you would a position, or statistics...

44
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Good Post O44,

I will add that yesterday I spent the afternoon on the phone with a friend who has a son that played 1 year at a JC.The kid went to a counselor supposedly, he took a math class that will not qualify for transfer: he only tested into that Math,my son tested into the same math, we challenged it and got permission to take a college level math class that will transfer,he took stats and got a high B.
Parents you have to help guide your kids,I do not care who says they are adults and its up to them. This is unchartered territory with them, they dont understand all of what is involved.
As it turns out this kid had that math that wont transfer, and two electives, they will transfer but are not part of the solids he needed.He only has about 9 solid units after one year.took no summer school, mom left it up to him to take care of all of it, guess what? he might not be going to a 4 year next year.
As O44 said , the family needs to do their homework.do not rely on just your kid going to talk to a counselor.educate yourself.I can not tell you how many parents I have talked to that had no idea what classes their kids signed up for , only to find out they dont have enough units to transfer.So yes they did it on their own I guess???? but you just wasted a year at school and wasted your money.
You should know at a JC if you kid is taking nutrition, health , PE and a lower end math guess what??? not solid classes to get your AA or move on.
I am also amazed at how many parents were never informed about being a qualifier out of HS.HS need to inform their athletes a little better.Parents need to educate themselves more.
We sit down with our son with a guidance sheet that helps, we go over with him what he needs, he then signs up online , and he sees his counselor every semester, sometimes they are very booked so parents have to help guide the kids.How is an 18 year old supposed to know what he has to take?You have to help them understand the rules, and which classes transfer by showing them the quaifications needed to transfer.
My sons first year, counselor told him 12 units each semester SOLIDS only. He is a qualifier but as O44 said get 60 units just in case.
A typical schedule for a freshmen trying to leave JC in two years: Have to take English 1A, and 1B or 1C.there is no way around this requirement. every college across the country requires this. there is 6 units your first year(no brainer).second almost all schools require speech(Communications).All require at least One college level math. right there that is 12 units that you know will transfer without a doubt.Then most require two science classes, one with a lab, trust me get the lab done right away. most kids do not and its hard to do with baseball. take it in the fall. my son was late to a couple fall ball games due to lab,no big deal. its done and out of the way.Have to have social sciences, and humanities.
Now as an example if you think you will be a business major, take econ 1a and 1b, its required,but if you change your mind, those both still count for gen ed.
I just want to again say as O44 said, do your homework, you would be amazed at how many kids are out of luck and have to try and scramble to get units in the summer.
A college recruited told us: to many kids do not take the right classes, dont get a high enough gpa and they cant get them in their schools. trust me on this.
Work along side your sons, understand the process, take solid classes.There is a little room for an elective but not tons.If your son takes solid classes, follows the transfer rules to the best he can( you can still lose some units transferring depending on where you go)but try and stay on a legit track and you will be ok.
I will give you an example of a schedule:Every one of these units transfer except the baseball units(some schools take up to 4 units of baseball, many do not)
First emester: English 1A, College level math class(several to choose from) Science with Lab,lab is separate hours 3 hours a week, so takes up a morning. do it on friday morning or at night. ( some humanties or a sociala science Psy, sociology, Drama etc.All of thses needed and transfer.Second semester English 1B, Econ1A, humanties or social science. There are sheets to guide you. tells you how many arts and humanities are needed, how many social sciences are need, what sciences etc. get the work sheets, sit down and map out a 2 year plan with your son.Take a summer school class,If I could go back I would of had son take one summer before college as well.
As far as the 3 year junior college plan, I am not as sure how it works. O44 did this route with son so he would be better prepared,And the three year plan with some kids is a good plan, exp. if the need that extra year to get the classes done. it is touhg to get done in 2, esp. if your not a qualifier.It is also sometimes what the coach wants, for development. I have seen many do well that have redshirted.
it is not like a 4 year school where the coaching staff makes sure every kid has a counselor who sighns them up for all their classes and study hall, and tutors available.You have to stay on top of it. After all you want your son to have the correct classes and best shot at moving to a four year.

quote:

it is not like a 4 year school where the coaching staff makes sure every kid has a counselor who sighns them up for all their classes and study hall, and tutors available

This is not always the case with 4 year schools. Players can also get unhelpful, uniterested and incompetent counslers at 4 year schools....my daughter's experiance as a s-****r player at a 4 year school.

Many of the kids that have to take "remedial" classes at a JC are on the 3 year program unless they take summer school and/or bigger class loads to catch up.

quote:

Many of the kids that have to take "remedial" classes at a JC are on the 3 year program unless they take summer school and/or bigger class loads to catch up.

I am seeing that. What is upsetting to me is that the parent I talked to yesterday thinks her son will get out after two years.And there are so mnay out there that dont understand that the remedial classes do not transfer.

FOG- I totally agree with you. As a parent you have to educate yourself and keep guiding your son. And keep checking all along the way. A little bit of research can save lots of heartache.

FOG, son is on the 4 year JC program. We did not go over his schedule, he has always wanted to do things his way, so now he sinks or swims on his own. My daughter did everything on her own, went to 4 year school and graduated. Why do boys have to be hand held? After reading all the posts, I don't think a lawyer could discern whether they met the guidelines.
So he might play ball two years and thats it. Oh well son could look back someday and see what opportunity passed him by.

FOG,

quote:

Gimages use the IGETSCE worksheet,

Where can I find this worksheet?

Thanks

http://www.igetc.org/. See especially the "37 units for the CSU" link.

This UC site also has a useful overview.

3FG

Thanks much. Just what I needed.

PUHD,

It is really not that complicated.But many young people just choose all easy electives, thinking they are classes and no big deal.There lies the problem.Im am not saying all boys need their hands held,I am saying they still need guidance.You never stop being a parent and helping.
I am hoping your son took classes that transfer, as it would be a shame after two years, if he does well on the field and he cant leave.Happens more than most think.
I think it is much more complicated with athletics then if they are just going to school. The timeline is monitored by the NCAA.If your just going to college, you can go mid year if you finish late, and many other scenarios.
Gimages, glad you found the IGETSE sheet.Hope all is well with you.

.

quote:

Originally posted by Pop Up Hitter dad:
FOG, son is on the 4 year JC program. We did not go over his schedule, he has always wanted to do things his way, so now he sinks or swims on his own. My daughter did everything on her own, went to 4 year school and graduated. Why do boys have to be hand held? After reading all the posts, I don't think a lawyer could discern whether they met the guidelines.
So he might play ball two years and thats it. Oh well son could look back someday and see what opportunity passed him by.

- PUHD...short term very dfficult...but long term I think there is great value in THEM taking control, making their own decisions and mistakes and having to live with them...there are a huge # of kids out there who are bright, well educated, academically decorated, going to the best schools...and totally unable to get get along in life as their paths have always been chosen for them, No decisons offered. AS a result, they do not know how to deal with adversity, or work through a bureaucracy, or make a mistake and rebound, or make a decision. In the communities where private schools dominate, there is even a term fot it, "Blow Back' when the kids go away to high end, prestigious 4 year schools on a high academic track, one that has been "chosen" for them and then fail and come home and start over on their own terms. I can make a case that your son's challenge offers an opportunity and a reward as big or bigger than baseball, and one that will serve him for the rest of his life.

- If you son wants to continue to play ball opportunites exist. There are many fine players who struggled academically early, who don't fit into the increasingly tight, unyeilding NCAA guidelines or time frames who have fine careers in NAIA and graduated with degreees. Many have been drafted. The road is long, opportunities exist athletically and academically.

- Not to be sexist...and while I understand this point of view might, by some, be considered to be another example of "victim mentality"....there is a body of thought, and books written, that the educational system is inherently more user friendly to the skills that girls often genetically bring...than the sensibilties that many boys bring, a need to be hands on, a neeed to learn by doing, do not translate well to education. And a case could be made that this applies to an even greater extent to athletes.

- I would agree, the pitfalls for the JC kid are many...particularly for young men to figure out. I would agree with FOG, the hand holding that is done at many 4 years, and the opportunity to live in the dorms offers a great half way house situation givng the kids freedom but enough structure to keep them from disaster. Due to the NCAA penalties, there is a safety net. I have said before that putting an 18 year old CA JC kid, in his own apt, with a bunch of "buddies" who don't have a baseball dream/job, away from home in a college town, tight education, unit, GPA requirements, and adding a full time job (baseball), and with no safety net...offers a REAL challenge. Little margin for errot or mistake, and real consequences, at a time in life when they normally are able to learn through mistakes and try new things.

- It is such a difficult balancing act for parents...one of the toughest we as parents can ever face...how much control to give them, how much control to keep, how intrusive to be...particularly with the ramifications.

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