Grandparent involvement

ASAP sit Grandpa down and explain the facts to him---going on a visit with that posse is a NO NO-- you want just your son and you and dad---grandpa has to back off

This is a unique question that I don't believe I have ever seen asked here on the hsbbweb!

I'll speak from the heart. You are blessed to have such a grandpa and I would convey that message to your son. He has an asset that almost no other kid has. IMHO, and I suspect some will disagree with me, I don't believe grandpa can screw things up even if he tries. The message to convey to your son is that all FINAL decisions will be HIS - not grandpa's and not yours.

Under no circumstance would I personally say anything to the grandpa. Why? In my younger days, I said some things to my in-laws that I would later regret. They were not about baseball but about things we thought they were over-stepping their bounds. Looking back, it was not necessary to say anything as these things tend to work themselves out naturally over time. In your case, the college decision is fast approaching and this situation will resolve itself at that time with your son's decision. If you look at this as a blessing, you essentially have a major recruiter out working the bushes on your son's behalf. That doesn't mean you cannot also do what you think is right. Embrace it and it will soon be over.

CD


I totally disagree---the grandparent should not be in the picture---coaches have enough to deal with in the parents and now you want add grandparents to the picture?---NO WAY

Without knowing g'pa and how he might react, it sounds like you and/or your husband should invite g'pa over for dinner. Gently tell him that, while you appreciate his input and experienced knowledge, could he please bring any ideas to you and your husband before acting on them. Explain that his grandson will be deciding on his future college, and that some of the colleges he has contacted on his own, may or may not be ones the grandson wants to look at.

Further, you might explain that, while they are welcome to come on the trip, they will not be attending the campus trips or coach discussions. Even if you "fudge" a little and say that the recruiter has stated that just the immediate family is welcome, that is better than having an entourage go on the recruiting trip.

My guess if g'pa goes, he would tend to dominate the conversation, and that might "turn-off" the recruiters and coaches.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
CD


I totally disagree---the grandparent should not be in the picture---coaches have enough to deal with in the parents and now you want add grandparents to the picture?---NO WAY

Fair enough. In another set of facts, I might also agree with you TR. The circumstances are different here. The grandpa is an ex major league pitcher. That is going to carry weight with every college and pro scout in the country. The question about blood lines is asked on every scouting form.

I think this is a great topic and I am glad there is some disagreement here as I think there will be some interesting discussion.

i really see both side, especially since i don't want to put son or hubby in a tough spot. g'pa has ALOT to offer, but he's also a take charge person.....great for business, not so much for grandson's baseball career....

aside from the college visit, son's summer coach has asked g'pa to be in the dugout during games. g'pa agreed without even asking son what he preferred.

CD

Respectfully disagree again--- being an ex major league pitcher means squat in the resulting process as far as I am concerned


Why would he carry weight with college coaches---most coaches are young and they probably won't even know his name

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
The circumstances are different here. The grandpa is an ex major league pitcher. That is going to carry weight with every college and pro scout in the country. The question about blood lines is asked on every scouting form.

i've personally seen coaches ear's perk up at this disclosure.....i'm aware of the value he brings

i appreciate the discussion.....please keep the thoughts coming.....i will share all sides with hubby before we do anything!!!

quote:

My guess if g'pa goes, he would tend to dominate the conversation, and that might "turn-off" the recruiters and coaches.

this is pretty much my immediate concern for this weekend....

L8:

I believe you have received some great, great advice from Cleveland Dad. TRHit, I respect you in so many ways, but totally and strongly disagree with you on this one.

The final choice clearly is the boy's, but the grandfather can add insight that others do not have. I also agree with CD (and based on what you have described) that any potential concerns will tend to disappear. Be grateful you have such a wonderful father-in-law who loves his grandson enough to do his best to make sure this works for the best.

Good luck!

Coming from a family whose grandparents have been unable to see son play as we have lived 1500 miles away (my parents have passed, and her parents age and disability prevents) 17 would have loved to have this involvement.

I would have stood back to have either of his grandfathers involved. Right now, maternal Grandpa relies on daily phone updates and can only imagine or see through pictures/video.

In my opinion, our son will have baseball only for a certain time, but his relationship with his grandparents is forever and will outlast everything. If a college coach cannot understand a grandparents love of his grandson and the game and the value of that relationship, then I think son would not want to be around that coach anyway.

Just my 2 cents.

One thing you are missing---grandpa probably has no or at the least very little knowledge regarding the recruiting process---bring him in with his apparent aggressive nature will hurt the situation

My two cents----it needs to be looked at as a business situation not a love fest between family relatives---will granpa go on a job interview with the boy? I think not

his involvement in the process is a given.....he's the absolute rock of our family! everyone in the family looks to him for advice and input.....but in this scenario, he's gone beyond just advice, input and support.

isn't there a line between supporting his grandson and hi-jacking the process? i don't want to remove him from the picture...it would just be nice if he would back-off a little. of course, i feel like a cad for even saying that.....or thinking it.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
One thing you are missing---grandpa probably has no or at the least very little knowledge regarding the recruiting process---bring him in with his apparent aggressive nature will hurt the situation

This is the post I believe to be the most accurate. Grandpa should have today's recruiting process explained to him and be utilized as a consultant. He shouldn't be on the visits.

With all due respect to the accomplishments of a person who became a MLB player, what says he adds value to today's process? I know former pros who are clueless about travel ball and today's recruiting process.

One told me I'm wasting my money. He said my son should be playing Legion ball and if he's good enough he'll be discovered or his coach will promote him. Legion isn't scouted in our area since all the good players have bailed for travel. I'm sure the coaching staff would promote my son right after their four kids.

Is the visit set up by the college admissions, the baseball coach, or are you just checking out the campus? And is it just you or is it a group of prospective students?

I think if I were in this situation I would look at two possible solutions.

1. You could ask for direction from the college personnel that set up this visit. Tell them the situation and they may say fine or they may say bring just two adults.

2. You could have g'pa go with one parent. If he does have something to offer, it may be worth keeping the family peace and having one parent sit this one out.

Given the stated circumstances so far, I can see grandpa taking over the conversation with the coach and answering for the grandson. Then the coach sits there wondering if he's going to have to deal with Grandpa Knows Best for four years.

quote:

Is the visit set up by the college admissions, the baseball coach, or are you just checking out the campus? And is it just you or is it a group of prospective students?

my son asked the coach/rc if it was ok to introduce himself before or after the game this weekend. they said of course and asked how many tickets he needed....basically an informal introduction, although they saw him pitch last summer. far as i know it's just us.....

L8,

I agree with CD that you should involve your son's g’pa; it is an advantage that not a lot of other families have.

By what I mean is involve is to sit down with the family and map out as a team what involvement each family member's roles and responsibility are and recognizes what everyone’s strengths they bring to the table but also what is best for the family and most importantly the player.

In my opinion college coaches will take note of g’pa, but they will also want the skills needed to help the team. Having g’pa on future visits may help in closing the deal, but the initial visit should be the player and parents.

Not knowing your son, having g'pa being a ex major leaguer could be a great benefit but it also could be a lot of pressure on your son, those effects and expectations could be a lot and negatively affect your son and should be considered.

Schools and more importantly the scouts do look at blood lines, but more importantly schools look at how they can help the team with results and scouts look at projectability.

Good Luck

quote:

isn't there a line between supporting his grandson and hi-jacking the process? i don't want to remove him from the picture...it would just be nice if he would back-off a little. of course, i feel like a cad for even saying that.....or thinking it. Frown

L8, I don't think you're a cad at all. Knowing my kind and well-intentioned in-laws, I think I would feel the same way...

If Grandpa's name is Sandy Koufax I doubt anyone would keep grandpa out of the mix.

But, I think a family conference is needed to set roles and responsibilities.

thanks for all the input everyone....tonight i will sit with hubby and discuss. we need to be on the same page, before we invite g'pa over for dinner.....

i'll follow-up with how it goes....and if anyone has anything else to add, please share!

you've all been a tremendous help.....

Tough, tough spot to be in. My own tendancies tend to be closer to G Pa's, i.e. take charge, controlling, etc.

The most salient thing that has jumped at me so far has been TR's point about his aggressive nature being a negative, and I think he's right about that one. So the key would be to get GPa to tone it down, but not alienate him. So rather than have me advise you on how to handle him, I will share best case scenario on someone trying to get me to tone it down.

It would take a private sit down, you and hubby. I'd tell me point blank, "We love your advice and input, but we need you to take a step back from being as pro active as you are. If you have some contacts that you think would be helpful, bring the ideas to us, including junior, and lets talk about it. Then if we all work together, we can get the best situation possible for junior. If you'd like to come on the recruiting visit with us, we'd love to have you, but only you. We're afraid of how it would look if we showed up with an entourage. We, meaning hubby, you and I, should stay in the background and let junior get to know the coach and ask the questions. After all, it's his experience, and he needs to learn to handle things himself. You'll be there to give support and guidance, along with us, and it will make for a great experience."

If someone approached me like that, I'd respect their wishes and not be offended. Give GPa a little credit, he's probably got broad shoulders and thick skin, he can take some direct talk.

Tough spot, best of luck. Follow your instincts, their usually right.

You are in a tough spot. Either way you stand to loose. GP's intentions are only help his grandson and am sure is done out of love. Since GP is so aggressive and has already inturded in the process I fear he will not take the suggestion of backing off very well. I pray this is not the case. Good luck with your sit down. Again I believe you are in a no win situation. Good luck.

quote:

If you'd like to come on the recruiting visit with us, we'd love to have you, but only you. We're afraid of how it would look if we showed up with an entourage. We, meaning hubby, you and I, should stay in the background and let junior get to know the coach and ask the questions. After all, it's his experience, and he needs to learn to handle things himself. You'll be there to give support and guidance, along with us, and it will make for a great experience."

quote:

realize hubby is stuck in the middle

As he should be! Being in the middle is the best position to address all sides. This is his father and your father-in-law. I feel as if it should be addressed by your husband ---- not you, the daughter in law. He needs to take control --- In whatever manner he feels is appropriate. Personally I see no problem with the grandfather making the trip. Actually I think that's a good idea. No he doesn't need to be arguing with the coach but he could be looking around the campus while the son is talking to the coach. Your husband and your father-in-law can vehemently disagree on a subject but they will remain father and son. If you get into it with your father-in-law, you become that ****** person that married his son relegated to shagging fly balls at all future family reunions!
Fungo

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo:

quote:

realize hubby is stuck in the middle

As he should be! Being in the middle is the best position to address all sides. This is his father and your father-in-law. I feel as if it should be addressed by your husband ---- not you, the daughter in law. He needs to take control --- In whatever manner he feels is appropriate. Personally I see no problem with the grandfather making the trip. Actually I think that's a good idea. No he doesn't need to be arguing with the coach but he could be looking around the campus while the son is talking to the coach. Your husband and your father-in-law can vehemently disagree on a subject but they will remain father and son. If you get into it with your father-in-law, you become that ****** person that married his son relegated to shagging fly balls at all future family reunions!
Fungo

I agree with the responses about grandpa being an asset. Although you may sometimes feel intruded upon, the majority of us would love to have a relative with his experience, knowledge, and contacts working on behalf of our kids. My parents rarely get to see junior play, but that doesn't stop them form freely dishing out their college recruiting opinions. The difference is, they don't have going for them what grandpa does. Also, Fungo is absolutely correct, if there is any redrawing of boundaries to be done, it's your husband's job to to it. No way you come out smelling like a rose in that battle.

Hey folks Grandpa played in the pros, probably a few years back but what does that do to give him experience in todays recruiting process and know the sytem and how it works

No offense to Gramps but in my eyes he can be more of nuisance than an asset

One thing that I will bring up that NEEDS to be addressed is whose boundaries is he overstepping? The parents? If that is the case then it is the parents who have initially overstepped their boundaries. I'm not addressing this to the original poster as I'm pretty sure that you mentioned your son having some concern for his grandpa overstepping what he is doing in the process. But what happens is that a lot of parents will say that grandpa should not be involved like he wants to be. I'm not going to throw a percentage out there at you but many times it is the parents that are overstepping the boundaries. It is your son who is being recruited. It is your sons' performance that will impact the program.

I've never in my life heard of a player that was signed because he had very knowledgable parents. What does happen often is that kids are NOT signed because they have overbearing parents and the staff doesn't want to have to deal with them for 4 years. Coaching is one of the few professions where everyone thinks that they are a professional in the business. Everyone thinks that they know what's going on. It's just like everything else in this world. Unless you've gone through the trial and error of years of experience coaching college baseball then you don't know what's going on. I've taken many math classes, I've excelled at math, i can fill out a balance sheet, i can do my taxes, but if I told an accountant how to do their job I would be laughed at and rightfully so.

The coaches want to deal with your son as much as possible in the process. Are there times when the parents should join in? Absolutely. But coaches are getting a read on you as a parent as well when you're communicating with them. If they get the sense that you "know more than they do" about their program then the chances of them shying away from your son are pretty good.... and rightfully so.

It is amazing and almost comical what coaches have to deal with when some parents get involved. I could go on and tell you specific stories but i'll refrain for now. Be an observant parent in the process. Guide your son through the process when necessary. Ask the coach questions if you have any. But understand this, whether you agree with me or not you're being evaluated as a parent and that is 100% fact. If you're going to be someone that is going to be difficult to deal with then your son better be a very special player for that program to make him an offer.

L8 Breaking,
I feel for you and especially for your son in this no win situation.

TRs posts on the subject are to the point(as usual) and accurate.

dannymac IMO does a great job explaining the coaches side of things.

I have (am having) personal experience with this issue which has not been positive for my son or anyone involved. I have tried everything from saying nothing to being direct with no results. So I am sorry I really can't help you other than say to talk sooner than later; and hope your words don't fall on deaf ears.

The good thing I guess is that grandpa has only interfered with one school, his alma mater but it was one of Jrs top choices.
3up

My first instinct over this matter was to laugh because I'd love to be a fly on the wall watching Grandpa run the show. But I digress.

I'd ask Grandma to put some laxatives in Grandpa's soup the night before so that he would wake up not feeling, um, completely well. wink wink.

There's more than 1 way to skin a cat!

we're getting together with the in-laws tomorrow to discuss everyones roles....you're thoughts and ideas have been a blessing.....thanks very much!

i did want to address a few comments.....

quote:

My parents rarely get to see junior play, but that doesn't stop them form freely dishing out their college recruiting opinions

we (son, hubby, myself) truly value g'pa's opinion. we would however prefer he share the opinion with us, instead of going into action.

quote:

The coaches want to deal with your son as much as possible in the process. Are there times when the parents should join in? Absolutely.

dannymac...great insight and very spot on....that's why i let son make all his contacts (i do help him proof emails and letters, but hey that's what i'm here for) and once we make the initial intro....hubby and i step back and let son interact with the coaches. our role is part-time cheerleader, full-time fundraiser....but this is his show, he's got to handle himself. we can only advise and answer any questions he has or help him find the answers.

hubby and i work really hard to not be "that parent" so we're concerned when another part of our team might be taking on "that" role.

thanks again all.....i'll follow-up on monday and let everyone know how our weekend went.

L8,

Good Luck with G'pa.

The most important thing to remember, I am sure G'pa wants the best for your son and he does have a perspective and advantage that most of us do not have even if he may or may not be familiar with the current recruiting environment.

Enjoy the ride!

quote:

hubby and i work really hard to not be "that parent" so we're concerned when another part of our team might be taking on "that" role.

With that approach you will find a very enjoyable recruiting experience as your son will portray maturity and you as parents will present a joy to be around for everyone involved in the program. I wish you and your son the best of luck. And you'll see once you get to the program you end up at.... like they say.. If you don't know who "that" parent is then it's probably you!!!

quote:

Originally posted by L8 Breaking:

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
The circumstances are different here. The grandpa is an ex major league pitcher. That is going to carry weight with every college and pro scout in the country. The question about blood lines is asked on every scouting form.

i've personally seen coaches ear's perk up at this disclosure.....i'm aware of the value he brings

I agree, it does bring value, no matter how far the bloodlines goes back. It looks good on the players bio as well.

As a former D1 coach, I would listen to Danny, I think he is right on.

Perhaps everyone needs to take a step back and let the player take care of business.

JMO.

In the category of grandparent/major league pitcher anecdotes, one of the pitchers who will be joining my son (also a pitcher) at college next year as a freshmen has a grandparent who was not only a major league pitcher, but a hall of famer, now about 90 years old. I don't know how often he gets out east, but if he makes the trip to see his grandson play, I would be more than happy for this old "feller" to be as involved with his grandson's career as possible, maybe even giving some of his teammates some tips!

We are talking the recruitment process not giving baseball tips---at the age of 90 I would think he knows very little if anything about the recuiting process---big difference between the recruiting process and playing the game

Actually, I know what the thead is about, but I wasn't thinking about the recruiting process when I made that post...was more just relating what I thought might be an interesting anecdote. But you might be surprised what this gentleman knows about today's game...I wouldn't discount that because of his age. He still sounded pretty sharp and involved a couple of years ago:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03...eball/07yankees.html