A couple of things, not necessarily related:
Our very large high school in the 70s had full and equivalent boys and girls varsity sports and, in fact, the track teams were close to each other, even though one team's spring coach preferred otherwise.
Something that is happening one of my sons and I have read it happening in other places as well: Corporations are changing their recruiting approaches somewhat, going more and more to even the high school level, identifying those they wish to pursue, then train them the way they want. Education (read: college) is part of this, but not necessarily in the so-called traditional four-year manner. It's more of a 10-year plan.
It is hard to give up on a college sports dream, but these corporate recruiting pitches are something to be heard.
Add this to what many male athletes (in sports not named football or basketball) see as an openly hostile attitude at the college level, I don't see it as surprising that we have shrinking male bachelor's degree candidate levels.
Old VA,
How fortunate you were to go to such a progressive HS in the 70s. Unfortunately, those talented girls on the track team (or ANY girls team, for that matter) had no opportunity to compete on a national collegiate level - no women allowed in NCAA! Thank goodness my daughters now have opportunities more like my sons do - academically and athletically. Don't quite know what you mean by openly hostile attitude toward males at college level. Seems to me if you have the grades, there are are many good opportunities for both. Fear of cracking the books, maybe?
How fortunate you were to go to such a progressive HS in the 70s. Unfortunately, those talented girls on the track team (or ANY girls team, for that matter) had no opportunity to compete on a national collegiate level - no women allowed in NCAA! Thank goodness my daughters now have opportunities more like my sons do - academically and athletically. Don't quite know what you mean by openly hostile attitude toward males at college level. Seems to me if you have the grades, there are are many good opportunities for both. Fear of cracking the books, maybe?
Consider that the decline in male percentage attending college has more to do with career alternatives and economics than any 'hostile' atmosphere or Title IX (or Girl-Crisis, Ms. Sommers 
) Conspiracy. Careers like computer techs, specialized maintainance, have joined plumbing, electricians, etc. as better-paying jobs that both don't require degrees and are much more often pursued by men.
Pretty much everybody here knows just how expensive college can be. The gap in male-female ratios is much more prevelant in the lower income families where boys have options like those cited above and girls look to teaching or healthcare/paralegal careers that require an AA.
Please remember that a decline in percentage does not necessarily mean a decline in degrees for males; the article I linked earlier said there haven't been fewer degrees awarded to men; the women's numbers have simply increased. But don't worry, boys, the government's cut in federal aid for next school year will help cull some of those pesky females trying to better their lot in life; as the college-attending gap is widest in the under $30,000 annual income households (roughly 2/3 of those students are women for the reasons noted above), that cut in funding will hit those women students (and potential students) the hardest.
) Conspiracy. Careers like computer techs, specialized maintainance, have joined plumbing, electricians, etc. as better-paying jobs that both don't require degrees and are much more often pursued by men. Pretty much everybody here knows just how expensive college can be. The gap in male-female ratios is much more prevelant in the lower income families where boys have options like those cited above and girls look to teaching or healthcare/paralegal careers that require an AA.
Please remember that a decline in percentage does not necessarily mean a decline in degrees for males; the article I linked earlier said there haven't been fewer degrees awarded to men; the women's numbers have simply increased. But don't worry, boys, the government's cut in federal aid for next school year will help cull some of those pesky females trying to better their lot in life; as the college-attending gap is widest in the under $30,000 annual income households (roughly 2/3 of those students are women for the reasons noted above), that cut in funding will hit those women students (and potential students) the hardest.
When I wrote openly hostile, I mean the attitude of support staff and, to a certain extent, faculty against male athletes (almost all, in this specific instance, women).
I have seen this in some dealings at my son's school (when paying bills, running paperwork). The attitude these people bring is that the young men are there to play and only to play, and that they otherwise don't belong.
My son won't be mistaken for an honor student any time soon, but he has a decent GPA and is on pace for graduation in five years with a psychology degree. In fact, he plans to use his experience to help prepare a term paper in one of his classes this spring.
Certainly this is not by far the case at all schools, and it was not at the junior college my son attended before his transfer to a four-year school. But if I could feel it, and I'm there (other than to watch a game) for about a handful of days a year (dropoff-pickup and paying more bills), it is a factor that must be considered nationally.
Also, while the NCAA was just starting to become women-inclusive in my competing days, there was a national championship vehicle in numerous sports (AIAW, I believe). If memory serves, there was considerable debate among women's groups that they wanted no part of inclusion in the NCAA. I specifically remember this because my high school guidance counselor was a big shot in U.S. women's track and field at the time and it came up in discussion.
I have seen this in some dealings at my son's school (when paying bills, running paperwork). The attitude these people bring is that the young men are there to play and only to play, and that they otherwise don't belong.
My son won't be mistaken for an honor student any time soon, but he has a decent GPA and is on pace for graduation in five years with a psychology degree. In fact, he plans to use his experience to help prepare a term paper in one of his classes this spring.
Certainly this is not by far the case at all schools, and it was not at the junior college my son attended before his transfer to a four-year school. But if I could feel it, and I'm there (other than to watch a game) for about a handful of days a year (dropoff-pickup and paying more bills), it is a factor that must be considered nationally.
Also, while the NCAA was just starting to become women-inclusive in my competing days, there was a national championship vehicle in numerous sports (AIAW, I believe). If memory serves, there was considerable debate among women's groups that they wanted no part of inclusion in the NCAA. I specifically remember this because my high school guidance counselor was a big shot in U.S. women's track and field at the time and it came up in discussion.
If you want to know why the NCAA ever does anything. Realize they work for the University President's (technically known as member institutions).
Changes happen when pressure is applied. Obviously the S****R Moms have more influence than the baseball Moms.
We need the ladies to unite, give their respective University there collective thoughts and be "persistent." We all know the immense power of persistence especially in numbers.
This may be an unpopular idea that might not survive "editing" but men are no match for the ladies when it comes to persistence.
When men are persistent it rarely has positive results but when women are persistent it rarely does not - men may have "institutional" power but women have proven quite succesful at motivating men.
Ladies, be forewarned Just purchased some ceramic body armor...plus i won't defend myself soooo.....
Changes happen when pressure is applied. Obviously the S****R Moms have more influence than the baseball Moms.
We need the ladies to unite, give their respective University there collective thoughts and be "persistent." We all know the immense power of persistence especially in numbers.
This may be an unpopular idea that might not survive "editing" but men are no match for the ladies when it comes to persistence.
When men are persistent it rarely has positive results but when women are persistent it rarely does not - men may have "institutional" power but women have proven quite succesful at motivating men.
Ladies, be forewarned Just purchased some ceramic body armor...plus i won't defend myself soooo.....
This is the first time I have looked at this thread.....and though I am not going to do any of the research, I'm sure there are several reasons that women now outnumber men on our college campuses.....and none of those reasons have anything to do with lack of opportunities for men.
I will guess at some things.....sorry again I do not have any research to back these guesses......but I would guess that the retention rate for women is higher than it is for men, that in general college aged women are better at setting and achieving goals then college aged men, that more college aged women have appropriate levels of commitment and self-motivation than college aged men, and that a significant number of women attending college in the USA today are non-traditional aged college women who may have sacrificed their education due to family obligations (or many other possible reasons) when they were younger. The non-traditional student population has exploded in the past decade or so; I am willing to bet that a great majority of those students are women.
If the NCAA has added two scholarships to the D-I limit for women's s****r, then that is great.....they did not take away any men's baseball scholarships to do that. I just don't see a problem with that.....and if I did I just might try to influence people who are in positions to make decisions. I am willing to bet most of us here do not make those decisions.
I will guess at some things.....sorry again I do not have any research to back these guesses......but I would guess that the retention rate for women is higher than it is for men, that in general college aged women are better at setting and achieving goals then college aged men, that more college aged women have appropriate levels of commitment and self-motivation than college aged men, and that a significant number of women attending college in the USA today are non-traditional aged college women who may have sacrificed their education due to family obligations (or many other possible reasons) when they were younger. The non-traditional student population has exploded in the past decade or so; I am willing to bet that a great majority of those students are women.
If the NCAA has added two scholarships to the D-I limit for women's s****r, then that is great.....they did not take away any men's baseball scholarships to do that. I just don't see a problem with that.....and if I did I just might try to influence people who are in positions to make decisions. I am willing to bet most of us here do not make those decisions.
grateful, good call(s). The numbers for women over the age of 26 (how's that for "old" ) starting or returning to college are, indeed, significantly higher than for men.
And anyone with a footie-playing daughter was probably celebrating the news. Might even have a few members here in that group.
) starting or returning to college are, indeed, significantly higher than for men.And anyone with a footie-playing daughter was probably celebrating the news. Might even have a few members here in that group.
arizonared
You have really confused me with this one.
It really doesn't matter what did or didn't exist back then - Title IX does not recreate your childhood and give you back your lost opportunity.
What matters is that we make things FAIR now, now titled in a new direction.
And I really don't know why saying this should be so much easier for me than it is for you.
quote:also if you "were not held down" ... it's probably easy to say that it doesn't matter what did or didn't exist back then... but to those of us who didn't get to participate...it still matters... and making it fair is important
You have really confused me with this one.
It really doesn't matter what did or didn't exist back then - Title IX does not recreate your childhood and give you back your lost opportunity.
What matters is that we make things FAIR now, now titled in a new direction.
And I really don't know why saying this should be so much easier for me than it is for you.
AParent.....you're kidding right? If you're not.....then I've nothing more to post to you....just refer back to my postings on this thread.....they still reflect my position on this subject.....
Actually I'm not kidding.
You can not alter the past.
You cannot make past mistakes right by making new mistakes today.
I dislike Title IX for that very reason. It tries to rectify past mistakes by making new ones.
I didn't get to participate with the boys either, but I don't hold them responsible and certainly not the sons of today.
That said, I too will bow out.
You can not alter the past.
You cannot make past mistakes right by making new mistakes today.
I dislike Title IX for that very reason. It tries to rectify past mistakes by making new ones.
I didn't get to participate with the boys either, but I don't hold them responsible and certainly not the sons of today.
That said, I too will bow out.
Actually neither am I.....
You can not alter the past, but you can learn from it.....
You cannot continue past mistakes in favor of the good old and comfortable ways........
You cannot dislike a law that attempts to right years of injustice.....
You cannot hold the youth of today responsible for the sins of yesterday....but you can say....move over....make room......and that's what it's all about....
That said....and in retrospect....I'll never bow out on this subject....but sorry...so to speak...that we will not be hearing from you anymore AParent.....your final bow.........so sad...
You can not alter the past, but you can learn from it.....
You cannot continue past mistakes in favor of the good old and comfortable ways........
You cannot dislike a law that attempts to right years of injustice.....
You cannot hold the youth of today responsible for the sins of yesterday....but you can say....move over....make room......and that's what it's all about....
That said....and in retrospect....I'll never bow out on this subject....but sorry...so to speak...that we will not be hearing from you anymore AParent.....your final bow.........so sad...
sc
What we need is for hockey to go on strike again so ESPN and its multitude of channels can televise college baseball like it did last season.
The more exposure the better it will be
What we need is for hockey to go on strike again so ESPN and its multitude of channels can televise college baseball like it did last season.
The more exposure the better it will be
AZ,
I'm with you. It's not about "recreating" anything. It's about making sure it doesn't happen to our daughters. AParent obviously has no daughter, so what's to lose...
I'm with you. It's not about "recreating" anything. It's about making sure it doesn't happen to our daughters. AParent obviously has no daughter, so what's to lose...
If that is the case - then apply it to academics as well.
Title IX was about academics as well as sports.
So far - it is failing miserably on the academics side. That is a fact.
No one ever answered my question - why is it ok to level the playing field in sports - but not academics?
And please - no breakdowns on income and the rest of the politically expedient excuses. If it is a quota system - then lets get it done.
Wouldnt you agree?
If you want to make it equal - make it equal.
Title IX was about academics as well as sports.
So far - it is failing miserably on the academics side. That is a fact.
No one ever answered my question - why is it ok to level the playing field in sports - but not academics?
And please - no breakdowns on income and the rest of the politically expedient excuses. If it is a quota system - then lets get it done.
Wouldnt you agree?
If you want to make it equal - make it equal.
its, you have an amusing (but not endearing ) idea of what 'facts' are. Something along the line of "because I said so" 
) idea of what 'facts' are. Something along the line of "because I said so"
Orlando - LOL
Not endearing? Thank God. Much kinder than most.
My proposal as it relates to COLLEGE TODAY (- and not anything else - including Wounded Knee - the Revolutionary War - The Potato Famine - the treatment of Italians and Irish in the 20th century - or any other historical domestic injustice) is as follows:
If the NCAA mouthpieces and intellectuals are committed to making it equal - then make it equal.
No excuses - just equal it out according to population - sports or otherwise.
If not - then the useless elitists that occupy academia should at least have the guts to come out and say - it is not about equality - it is about revenge.
Either way - just give us truth - so we can react accordingly.
Not endearing? Thank God. Much kinder than most.
My proposal as it relates to COLLEGE TODAY (- and not anything else - including Wounded Knee - the Revolutionary War - The Potato Famine - the treatment of Italians and Irish in the 20th century - or any other historical domestic injustice) is as follows:
If the NCAA mouthpieces and intellectuals are committed to making it equal - then make it equal.
No excuses - just equal it out according to population - sports or otherwise.
If not - then the useless elitists that occupy academia should at least have the guts to come out and say - it is not about equality - it is about revenge.
Either way - just give us truth - so we can react accordingly.
Isn't title IX about....opportunity....in sports and academics???.....I never ran into one male student who felt that he was not being provided the opportunity to learn....and go to college.....usually the opposite.....they felt they were being asked to learn too much! Females too....
It's..... our legislation is based on domestic history....I think it comes into play in many laws.....I mean a lawmaker just didn't wake up one morning and say...."Gee I don't have anything else to do today....I'll make a law requiring equal employment opportunities for all people!"
First you take facts/numbers and use them as you wish to make your point...but now...you try and tell us what facts we can and can not use to make our points.....
Okay....my turn to ask a question...
I've worked in public education (High School) for many years....I never met a male student who worked hard at his studies and wanted to go to college...that didnt get to college. Have you?
It's..... our legislation is based on domestic history....I think it comes into play in many laws.....I mean a lawmaker just didn't wake up one morning and say...."Gee I don't have anything else to do today....I'll make a law requiring equal employment opportunities for all people!"
First you take facts/numbers and use them as you wish to make your point...but now...you try and tell us what facts we can and can not use to make our points.....
Okay....my turn to ask a question...
I've worked in public education (High School) for many years....I never met a male student who worked hard at his studies and wanted to go to college...that didnt get to college. Have you?
"It's" - - forget it, no one is listening 
there is some serious baggage here - and it isn't about title IX
take my advice & walk away!
ps - I say "walk" because there is "NO little animated guy RUNNING fast enough"!!
there is some serious baggage here - and it isn't about title IX
take my advice & walk away!
ps - I say "walk" because there is "NO little animated guy RUNNING fast enough"!!
Bee,
You are right IMO.
I'm done.
I wish the best for Title IX and lets hope the % of young males continues its precipitous decline. Maybe in another 10-15 years we can eliminate young males from college altogether.
That should be wonderful for the country. LOL
You are right IMO.
I'm done.
I wish the best for Title IX and lets hope the % of young males continues its precipitous decline. Maybe in another 10-15 years we can eliminate young males from college altogether.
That should be wonderful for the country. LOL
I agree too....I mean.....eliminating males from college...in 10 to 15 years......that is serious baggage to contend with.......even scary!
Still no answer to my original question.
Bee>
Will this work?
Post script: This is not a reflection of my personl opinions on this matter ... merely an attempt at humor
quote:I say "walk" because there is "NO little animated guy RUNNING fast enough"!!
Will this work?
Post script: This is not a reflection of my personl opinions on this matter ... merely an attempt at humor