bobblehead
it is unusual to spend 2 years in ss rookie,not unheard of but unusaul. rz's son is in low A charleston.
Quote by Coach May:
This is the only part of this thread that I can actually understand and wrap my brain around..
quote:Stats can be very misleading.
This is the only part of this thread that I can actually understand and wrap my brain around..
quote:Originally posted by shortstopmom:
This is the only part of this thread that I can actually understand and wrap my brain around..
Believe me, I understand. But just because stats CAN be misleading, it doesn’t mean they HAVE to be misleading.
Skeep,
BHD and I have a long history of going one on one and he often accuses me of not being a good moderator. So I am going out on a limb here.
Though I do not disagree with some of your statements or his, as a relatively new member (though reincarnated from the past), I am not sure why you are picking apart everything that he is saying. Don't take it personally that he doesn't care for scorekeepers.
You also did the same with Bum (IMO), and can't speak for anyone else but it's annoying.
Thanking you in advance for your cooperation regarding this matter.
BHD and I have a long history of going one on one and he often accuses me of not being a good moderator. So I am going out on a limb here.
Though I do not disagree with some of your statements or his, as a relatively new member (though reincarnated from the past), I am not sure why you are picking apart everything that he is saying. Don't take it personally that he doesn't care for scorekeepers.
You also did the same with Bum (IMO), and can't speak for anyone else but it's annoying.
Thanking you in advance for your cooperation regarding this matter.
I have no problem with what he is picking a part. However it shows he misreads what I am saying. The example of a pitcher who went in with 2 on and 1 out with tied game was not my son although a similar situattion. My son's happened in summer ball and the one I described was D1.
I can ssure you I was not insulting score keepers because it can be a tough call. I was pointing out that errors are made at those levels I mentioned. I was surprised at the time I noted them and even saw the results flip flop back and forth over a period of 2-3 weeks. Since our very smart coaches chose to avois stats contraversy I have never thought that things like that would happen at that level
While you were score keeping I was watching BB. I watch many teams at several levels and my whole life doesen't evolve around my son's BB. One thing I can tell you is that I have seen 10 times the BB that you have at all levels. I am not real fond of MLB and what it has become. I still enjoy MiLB.
I see RZ's son is in Charleston. I hope he has not injured himself again. He is an outstanding pitcher with great mechanics. He had TJ a couple years ago and appeared to be in good shape. My son goes to the River Dog games so maybe he will say hello. One of his teammates has a summer job with them.
W/L records are heavily dependant on team ability,errors etc. If that isn't subjective I don't know what is.
When my son was being recruited they looked at what he could do based on his video. I never gave one stat to any of the coaches. Only a few asked. I assume because they couldn't evaluate the competition other than what was on the video.
Throwing 90 is a stat. I don't remember that on a stat sheet.
Obviously you are offended because you think I hate score keepers and that isn't even true. UMPs I have a great deal of respect for. They do make tons of mistakes and unlike you they admit it. I sit with UMPs all the time at games. I never yell at them and they can influence a game tremendously. I have seen UMPs take away a pitchers best CB because he can't call them. They all have different strike zones and part of a pitcher/'catcher's job is to figure it out early in the game. They also have judjment calls.
One final point is that people who assume that my mentioning things like poor score keeping in referrence to my son and others is complaining because I am unhappy just don't get it. I pointed it out so people understand that it does happen quite often. The 1 error to my son's stat of the 2 I noticed was corrected by someone and it really made no difference to me.
I can ssure you I was not insulting score keepers because it can be a tough call. I was pointing out that errors are made at those levels I mentioned. I was surprised at the time I noted them and even saw the results flip flop back and forth over a period of 2-3 weeks. Since our very smart coaches chose to avois stats contraversy I have never thought that things like that would happen at that level
While you were score keeping I was watching BB. I watch many teams at several levels and my whole life doesen't evolve around my son's BB. One thing I can tell you is that I have seen 10 times the BB that you have at all levels. I am not real fond of MLB and what it has become. I still enjoy MiLB.
I see RZ's son is in Charleston. I hope he has not injured himself again. He is an outstanding pitcher with great mechanics. He had TJ a couple years ago and appeared to be in good shape. My son goes to the River Dog games so maybe he will say hello. One of his teammates has a summer job with them.
W/L records are heavily dependant on team ability,errors etc. If that isn't subjective I don't know what is.
When my son was being recruited they looked at what he could do based on his video. I never gave one stat to any of the coaches. Only a few asked. I assume because they couldn't evaluate the competition other than what was on the video.
Throwing 90 is a stat. I don't remember that on a stat sheet.
Obviously you are offended because you think I hate score keepers and that isn't even true. UMPs I have a great deal of respect for. They do make tons of mistakes and unlike you they admit it. I sit with UMPs all the time at games. I never yell at them and they can influence a game tremendously. I have seen UMPs take away a pitchers best CB because he can't call them. They all have different strike zones and part of a pitcher/'catcher's job is to figure it out early in the game. They also have judjment calls.
One final point is that people who assume that my mentioning things like poor score keeping in referrence to my son and others is complaining because I am unhappy just don't get it. I pointed it out so people understand that it does happen quite often. The 1 error to my son's stat of the 2 I noticed was corrected by someone and it really made no difference to me.
BHD ...
You are so right there ... just google Jered Weaver's stats and check his game against the Dodgers on June 28 where he threw 6 innings of no hit ball and LOST THE GAME ... giving up one unearned run on 3 BB and 6 K's. He lost because of errors (I don't think it was his fielding error, I think it was Mathis' throwing error).
quote:W/L records are heavily dependant on team ability,errors etc
You are so right there ... just google Jered Weaver's stats and check his game against the Dodgers on June 28 where he threw 6 innings of no hit ball and LOST THE GAME ... giving up one unearned run on 3 BB and 6 K's. He lost because of errors (I don't think it was his fielding error, I think it was Mathis' throwing error).
quote:Originally posted by FutureBack.Mom:
BHD ...quote:W/L records are heavily dependant on team ability,errors etc
You are so right there ... just google Jered Weaver's stats and check his game against the Dodgers on June 28 where he threw 6 innings of no hit ball and LOST THE GAME ... giving up one unearned run on 3 BB and 6 K's. He lost because of errors (I don't think it was his fielding error, I think it was Mathis' throwing error).
Everything depends on everything - not sure what the point is. That there is injustice in the world? Join the club. If the umpire has a strike zone that is 5 inches off the black, the hitters are going to struggle that day (That was the strike zone when Tom Glavine shut out the Indians 1-0 to WIN the 1995 WS). If the strike zone is the size of a key-hole, then ALL pitchers will struggle that day. Over time however, the wheat will be seperated from the chaffe. Sometimes fielders make the plays and sometimes they don't. Winning players pick their teammates up - they don't worry about the impact on their stats. I have seen pitchers glare when a play is not made behind them. The winning play is the next one. Pick the teammate up and throw a ground ball or strike out the next hitter. Likewise, if a pitcher gives up a homerun, don't glare at them (have to admit, I don't recall any fielders glaring at the pitcher)- pick them up with a great defensive play or hit a homerun yourself. We could go on and on ad infinitum detailing how stats are misleading. How many times has a pitcher come into a game, given up the lead, yet had his offense bail him out the next inning and still further yet get the win? Did the pitcher deserve a win or a loss for that game? 98% of the time, the scorekeeper gets it right. So what if they screw-up? Overtime, it equals out.
By looking at the responses in this thread, stats seem very important. Bum was able to rattle off several stats regarding his son for example so they must mean something. Regardless of the injustices, the best players tend to have the best stats but even these can be skewed if overtime the competition was suspect (e.g., weak highschool or college league, Danny Almonte being two years older than his competition). Lamenting that umpires make mistakes, scorekeepers make mistakes, fielders make mistakes, etc. is a red-herring in my view. Most of the time, these elements get it right. Since it is a team sport, the most important stat is whether or not your TEAM wins. For those that lose sight of that concept, they invented the expression "Stats are for losers."
BHD - ironically and if I recall correctly, you have started some threads over the years questioning scorekeeping errors relating to your son. Not sure now why you are arguing that stats don't mean anything? (other than indicating trends)
PS - some pitchers tend to get better fielding percentages from their fielders than others. Some get the ball and throw stirkes which tends to keep their guys in the game and sharp. Some like to preen around out there so everyone notices them (Wes Roemer of CSF a few years back) or worse yet will slow the game down to a snails pace with runners on base. Everything depends on everything.
I think we all agree that Skeep definatly believes in Stats 
I bet he is an Accountant 
It is obvious that if BBH had Skeep for a scorekeeper, he would not have any questions whether or not the stats were correctly and accuracy scored.
Dan I started a thread about how surprised I was that errors like game sheets not matching summary sheets could happen at that level. Also how the summary sheet flip flopped back and forth over 2-3 weeks.
The only reason I brought that up was to show that errors are made.
My whole point was that MLB scouts and many college recruiters don't put much store in stats. Skeep obviously is a perfect score keeper. I used to be an accountant many years ago and I do like things to add up. I have never complained about judjment calls even though there may be lots to complain about.
I must admit I have never seen anyone get upset about score keeping.
The only reason I brought that up was to show that errors are made.
My whole point was that MLB scouts and many college recruiters don't put much store in stats. Skeep obviously is a perfect score keeper. I used to be an accountant many years ago and I do like things to add up. I have never complained about judjment calls even though there may be lots to complain about.
I must admit I have never seen anyone get upset about score keeping.
CD ...
Don't see any reason to call out a particular pitcher who probably wasn't any worse at 'preening' (your term, not mine) than other pitchers who have appeared on the college baseball stage. Wes served his team well, has been drafted and is having a nice season for the Dbacks' in High A Cal League this year.
Besides, I thought that was something we frowned on around here (calling a player out) ... ???
Don't see any reason to call out a particular pitcher who probably wasn't any worse at 'preening' (your term, not mine) than other pitchers who have appeared on the college baseball stage. Wes served his team well, has been drafted and is having a nice season for the Dbacks' in High A Cal League this year.
Besides, I thought that was something we frowned on around here (calling a player out) ... ???