This is a great question. HS baseball has taken a hit, as has all HS sports. Select, AAU, travel teams and showcases do minimize HS contests. HS games/teams are still relevant, but they has been marginalized by scouts, evaluators and college coaches. I am not certain that this development is necessarily bad . . . but it is changing even more. Now sports-oriented HS academies, once for prodigies only, are being more prominent.
As a parent of a HS Sophmore and booster of all sports at my kid's school (meaning I join the booster clubs and donate to the programs), which is a 6a (largest classification) in Alabama, let me give my impression. When I was in HS in the late 70s my coach was very involved in the program, with players and parents. I was expecting much the same when my son made the HS baseball team. Much to my suprise the HS baseball coach was pretty much aloft from the players and parents for that matter. (If he was a winner, and won a championship every once in a while I might be more understanding.) The Baseball program (I'm talking program in general here is the pits). Booster club very weak, players sniping at each other, and team in a downward spiral. We keep about 5 players until they are seniors from a freshman class of 12 to 14. As a contrast, my son also plays football. I spoke with both the football coach and the baseball coach and the difference was night and day. My son is a decent LHP and weak football player. Football coach is positive, supportive, and puts kids in college I would not think are college caliber, and the booster club hauls in the cash. I told him I was considering making my son quit football and focus only on baseball. He told me he really hated to lose a good kid like my son, His exact words were "he does everything I ask him to do and goes all out everyplay, and I would really like to have a whole team of players with his attitude" but he was upfront and told me my son would be on the scoutteam unless he got a whole lot stronger. He did it in a way you can respect not in condescending or mean way. So as you can guess he is still on the football team and the coach can expect more support from me. When I told the baseball coach I was thinking of having my son quit football and focus on baseball was "he did a pretty good job for me last season but he had a couple of bad outings and if he doesn't keep his A game on he might not be playing baseball for me as a senior so I would keep him in football so he will at least have something to do if I decide to cut him". Just as an aside, the baseball coach seems to keep kids out of college. He told me my son could play D2 or D3 baseball then added ("if you can walk and chew bubble gum you can play D3, your son is smart enough to get into a the University on a scholarship why consider D2 or D3?, you can tell where I live which University is the University) I would be afraid to ask him to do anything for a player, because of what he might say to a college coach. For my kid I love the football program, for baseball he will stay in the baseball program but I would consider only "select team" ball, even though I really enjoy the community aspects of HS ball. (By the way I support the baseketball booster club and I don't have a kid on the team.) If you are at a school with a good coach whether the program wins or not consider yourself very lucky.
One other thing. Football coach was the quarterback at a small college that won a championship. Baseball coach didn't even play a sport in college.
CB25:
In a word, NO, the intensity and the pride of playing for your school/town team is still fantastic. HS coaches may vary in skill and desire/ability to help move to the next level but again my answer is NO!
In a word, NO, the intensity and the pride of playing for your school/town team is still fantastic. HS coaches may vary in skill and desire/ability to help move to the next level but again my answer is NO!
THANKS FOR ALL OF THE RESPONSES! I really appreciate reading them. I apologize for some of your experiences with high school teams/programs/coaches. I also apologize for the length of this posts. As I've stated before, I'm a person of lists. Sooooooo:
What a high school coach does:
1. Know all of the kids at every level and on every select and rec. team.
2. Know all of the kids I have ever coached and their main achievements including stats etc.and be able to call these events up anytime I see the former player.
3. Teach pride, dedication, desire, and do so while often being backstabbed at every turn.
4. Modify behaviors! No, Jon Jon, you can’t hit away because you are the greatest hitter this school ever had. Bunt the ball in this sacrifice situation.
5. Recognize the “signs of the times and how they are changing.” Well, this week are we rotational or linear? Do we know the difference? Do we care? Are we dropping and driving to pitch or are we standing tall to fall?
6. Document everything. Physical, Code of Conduct. Record any injury. Know what hour each player is in which classroom and when I can get them to therapy.
7. Fight the war on drugs and alcohol. Know that “cool” is in and that in order to be successful I must motivate my players to understand that anyone can pop a top on a can of beer but few can hit the fastball.
8. Raise player’s self esteem while wondering if they care themselves about their self-esteem.
9. Maintain a “safe environment” Safety first. If I fail here, I’m gone instantly!
10. Promote sportsmanship in an era where sportsmanship defies the norm.
11. Continue my education ! This means I have to know the latest trends in weight lifting, plyometrics, speed and agility drills, etc. Then, I have to do the same for the game itself.
12. Know every higher level coach in my area. Know every college coach in my area. Get all of them to know and recognize us. MAKE SURE MY PROGRAM IS RESPECTED BY ALL OF THEM.
13. Know that my presence will place students in awe so I must be a role model. The problem is, I haven’t walked on water and, at time, I am not even a good person. However, one word, one action and one decision can devastate any and every kid I coach.
14. Know all of the web-sites and glean as much as I can off of them.
15. Decide who is potentially dangerous to our success. That might mean cutting a senior that I have had a great relationship with.
16. Decide how to handle medical emergencies. I have to know when a child is hurt and when they are not. I have to decide when the pain I’ve inflicted through drills, running etc. are enough and that it is time to back off some. I have to know every new therapy, every taping scheme for injuries and every kids phone number in case I have to call the parents in an emergency.
17. Make sure all of my students can pass their classes to remain eligible.
18. Make sure all parents are aware of anything lacking in their child’s academic endeavors. Are they meeting CORE Class requirements and what is their score on the ACT?
19. Know who is dating whom and who has had a bad day. Do I need to give that extra pat on the back?
20. Make sure that I closely monitor anything remotely close to prayer !!!
What I know:
1. I can’t do it all.
2. Know that sometimes I feel like the greatest failure I know.
3. Know that there will come a day when my kids hurt and I will be hurt!
4. Know that when our season ends, I will go through deep depression because I’ve gotten so close to these kids and another group of seniors have graduated.
5. I KNOW THAT I AM A MEMBER OF THE GREATEST PROFESSION IN THE WORLD! I DO MAKE A DIFFERENCE!!! I WOULDN’T CHANGE WITH ANYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD!!!
What a high school coach does:
1. Know all of the kids at every level and on every select and rec. team.
2. Know all of the kids I have ever coached and their main achievements including stats etc.and be able to call these events up anytime I see the former player.
3. Teach pride, dedication, desire, and do so while often being backstabbed at every turn.
4. Modify behaviors! No, Jon Jon, you can’t hit away because you are the greatest hitter this school ever had. Bunt the ball in this sacrifice situation.
5. Recognize the “signs of the times and how they are changing.” Well, this week are we rotational or linear? Do we know the difference? Do we care? Are we dropping and driving to pitch or are we standing tall to fall?
6. Document everything. Physical, Code of Conduct. Record any injury. Know what hour each player is in which classroom and when I can get them to therapy.
7. Fight the war on drugs and alcohol. Know that “cool” is in and that in order to be successful I must motivate my players to understand that anyone can pop a top on a can of beer but few can hit the fastball.
8. Raise player’s self esteem while wondering if they care themselves about their self-esteem.
9. Maintain a “safe environment” Safety first. If I fail here, I’m gone instantly!
10. Promote sportsmanship in an era where sportsmanship defies the norm.
11. Continue my education ! This means I have to know the latest trends in weight lifting, plyometrics, speed and agility drills, etc. Then, I have to do the same for the game itself.
12. Know every higher level coach in my area. Know every college coach in my area. Get all of them to know and recognize us. MAKE SURE MY PROGRAM IS RESPECTED BY ALL OF THEM.
13. Know that my presence will place students in awe so I must be a role model. The problem is, I haven’t walked on water and, at time, I am not even a good person. However, one word, one action and one decision can devastate any and every kid I coach.
14. Know all of the web-sites and glean as much as I can off of them.
15. Decide who is potentially dangerous to our success. That might mean cutting a senior that I have had a great relationship with.
16. Decide how to handle medical emergencies. I have to know when a child is hurt and when they are not. I have to decide when the pain I’ve inflicted through drills, running etc. are enough and that it is time to back off some. I have to know every new therapy, every taping scheme for injuries and every kids phone number in case I have to call the parents in an emergency.
17. Make sure all of my students can pass their classes to remain eligible.
18. Make sure all parents are aware of anything lacking in their child’s academic endeavors. Are they meeting CORE Class requirements and what is their score on the ACT?
19. Know who is dating whom and who has had a bad day. Do I need to give that extra pat on the back?
20. Make sure that I closely monitor anything remotely close to prayer !!!
What I know:
1. I can’t do it all.
2. Know that sometimes I feel like the greatest failure I know.
3. Know that there will come a day when my kids hurt and I will be hurt!
4. Know that when our season ends, I will go through deep depression because I’ve gotten so close to these kids and another group of seniors have graduated.
5. I KNOW THAT I AM A MEMBER OF THE GREATEST PROFESSION IN THE WORLD! I DO MAKE A DIFFERENCE!!! I WOULDN’T CHANGE WITH ANYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD!!!
I haven't met a whole lot of people who are happy with their HS coach. Even good players from the so-called "well-coached" programs.
Most of the people I know ARE happy with their summer coach, select or not.
Why is that? I don't have an answer, but it is the way it seems to me. Thoughts?
Most of the people I know ARE happy with their summer coach, select or not.
Why is that? I don't have an answer, but it is the way it seems to me. Thoughts?
Coach
Thanks for posting. Please keep it up. If you get a chance during the season to post for kids not lucky enough to play for you or guys like you, they would appreciate your insite, cuz dads are, well, just dads.
Thanks for posting. Please keep it up. If you get a chance during the season to post for kids not lucky enough to play for you or guys like you, they would appreciate your insite, cuz dads are, well, just dads.
grateful,
Here are a few things you've said that I would like to reply to.
grateful, I don't consider myself all that important, but if you've read all the posts I've made on this thread... Where have you seen anything negative said about High School Baseball? I love High School Baseball!
grateful, I take exception to that! You make it sound like someone is out to get High School Baseball or something. I keep hearing about "high school coaches being disrespected" as if they are all lumped together and equal in every way. I think everyone understands there are differences in high school coaches as there are differences in select coaches and diffences in MLB managers. Just because someone speaks the truth, as they see it, doesn't mean it has any self serving motives. I'm not promoting anything, in fact, I've stated clearly that young players should do both if they wish. Regarding "self serving", I don't come on here for any business related reasons. I enjoy the people on here and love the game. I try to speak what I believe to be the truth and hope that it might somehow help somebody. Also, I can say in all honesty, I have not once said anything negative about any part of the game of baseball. Of course, that would include High School baseball. High School Baseball is GREAT! and I mean it!
grateful, I agree completely! except I don't read very many posts that bash amateur baseball. This is part of our mission statement... To promote the game of baseball at all levels to the very best of our ability.
Thank you
Here are a few things you've said that I would like to reply to.
quote:
It would be nice, and again I am not a high school coach and haven't been since 1987, if important people like you and several others on this site would speak more positively about high school baseball......this thread in particular should show people the importance of HS baseball to the young baseball players in our country.
grateful, I don't consider myself all that important, but if you've read all the posts I've made on this thread... Where have you seen anything negative said about High School Baseball? I love High School Baseball!
quote:
I am not being critical of club programs......but I will admit that the negative attitude toward HS baseball, its importance, and the coaches is disappointing and in my opinion can appear to be somewhat self-serving (for those who are promoting 'select' baseball and showcasing).
grateful, I take exception to that! You make it sound like someone is out to get High School Baseball or something. I keep hearing about "high school coaches being disrespected" as if they are all lumped together and equal in every way. I think everyone understands there are differences in high school coaches as there are differences in select coaches and diffences in MLB managers. Just because someone speaks the truth, as they see it, doesn't mean it has any self serving motives. I'm not promoting anything, in fact, I've stated clearly that young players should do both if they wish. Regarding "self serving", I don't come on here for any business related reasons. I enjoy the people on here and love the game. I try to speak what I believe to be the truth and hope that it might somehow help somebody. Also, I can say in all honesty, I have not once said anything negative about any part of the game of baseball. Of course, that would include High School baseball. High School Baseball is GREAT! and I mean it!
quote:
Baseball is a game that everybody on here loves, and instead of bashing the sport that has been so fabulous for us and our kids perhaps we should think of ways to promote ALL types of amateur baseball so that it will continue to be America's Sport, Our National Pasttime.
grateful, I agree completely! except I don't read very many posts that bash amateur baseball. This is part of our mission statement... To promote the game of baseball at all levels to the very best of our ability.
Thank you
quote:
Originally posted by justbaseball:
I haven't met a whole lot of people who are happy with their HS coach. Even good players from the so-called "well-coached" programs.
Most of the people I know ARE happy with their summer coach, select or not.
Why is that? I don't have an answer, but it is the way it seems to me. Thoughts?
Dado4, thanks for the compliment. As we have talked about in the past, I hope you get to meet Melissa B from the s o o c e r program. Perhaps, she could dispell this statment by justbaseball. That is, at least about me.
justbaseball, do you really believe this statement. I know some that don't like their high school coach. However, the vast majority do. I can name 3 kids that have played ball for me that don't like me. I would bet that every one of the rest in both basketball and baseball that have played for me do. I don't think I'm special. In fact, I think I'm very strict to the point of being mean sometimes. Personally, I loved my high school coach.
PGStaff, there are goods and bads at everything. I don't think that the majority of select coaches bash high school programs. However, I can name one prominent coach in the St. Louis Area that makes a habit out of doing it. In fact, he takes credit for everything that kids accomplish when some of them haven't played ball for him at all.
Coach - I don't know if I believe it or not...just seems that way. There are coaches in our area who have solid programs...win every year, produce college/pro players, sit on coaching committees. When I've met them, they seem great...polite, knowledgeable, willing to work at a youth camp for free.
But then I talk to parents who's sons play for them and their complaints are loud and wide-ranging. But when I talk to the same parents about their summer coach, everything is great for the most part.
Its not a scientific study or anything...but why is that? I don't think its because the HS coaches, in general, are bad or idiots or anything. I think it has more to do with the social pressures in a community-peer setting. Or maybe the expectations of a HS coach are too high? Or maybe playing on a select summer team makes a good player (and his parents) feel better about themselves than on a HS team where the skill diversity is greater?
I wasn't stating it as fact...just an impression and wondering if others had heard similar things and if so why?
But then I talk to parents who's sons play for them and their complaints are loud and wide-ranging. But when I talk to the same parents about their summer coach, everything is great for the most part.
Its not a scientific study or anything...but why is that? I don't think its because the HS coaches, in general, are bad or idiots or anything. I think it has more to do with the social pressures in a community-peer setting. Or maybe the expectations of a HS coach are too high? Or maybe playing on a select summer team makes a good player (and his parents) feel better about themselves than on a HS team where the skill diversity is greater?
I wasn't stating it as fact...just an impression and wondering if others had heard similar things and if so why?
justbaseball, I came from the angle of players. I certainly believe that if you were to measure displeasure from a parent's view, then you tend to be more accurate. I don't know what that is. I've given up on pleasing parents. I don't dislike my parents. In fact, it is just the opposite. However, they want the best for their child and when their child isn't the focus of everything, they question the coach. NOW THIS IS A GENERALIZATION AND I HAVE SOME PARENTS THAT I BELIEVE NEVER QUESTION ANYTHING I DO. One example from today - a parent called at lunch. I asked if I could talk to them later I only had 30 minutes from lunch. They said, well, I have enough time to get there and eat because the cafeteria is right here. They wanted to talk about their child. I told them, as nicely as I could, I'll call them back. They now were hot. I talked to them. There question - why didn't I get their son signed early. I couldn't believe it. I've done all that I can and constantly continue to work for this kid. Now, this parent is hopping mad. I advise them to call the AD and take their concerns to him and the Principal. This conversations ends with "Please don't tell (Their son) I've called." Well, no lunch. However, (their son) was in my class 7th hour laughing and joking and talking about Christmas etc. You figure it out!
PG....
You are right and I apologize to you for implying that you bash HS baseball coaches. I have always respected the contributions that you make for the people who read these forums. You are a positive contributor and I have not seen you bashing anyone.
You may not consider yourself 'important', but you are definitely one of the prominent contributors, simply due to your job, your affiliation, and of course your forum name. People read what you write and they place value in it....you are important!!
Some of my comments are based on observations. I read these forums much more than I write on them. In all the years that I have been reading them, I have observed that there is a general tendency for 'frequent' posters to imply that high school baseball, and HS baseball coaches......are low on the baseball 'totem pole' in the minds of many people who are regular contributors. Again, that is too bad.
So again, PGStaff....I apologize for seeming to call you out; that wasn't my intent. I value and respect your contributions and Perfect Game events.
You are right and I apologize to you for implying that you bash HS baseball coaches. I have always respected the contributions that you make for the people who read these forums. You are a positive contributor and I have not seen you bashing anyone.
You may not consider yourself 'important', but you are definitely one of the prominent contributors, simply due to your job, your affiliation, and of course your forum name. People read what you write and they place value in it....you are important!!
Some of my comments are based on observations. I read these forums much more than I write on them. In all the years that I have been reading them, I have observed that there is a general tendency for 'frequent' posters to imply that high school baseball, and HS baseball coaches......are low on the baseball 'totem pole' in the minds of many people who are regular contributors. Again, that is too bad.
So again, PGStaff....I apologize for seeming to call you out; that wasn't my intent. I value and respect your contributions and Perfect Game events.
Coach - I hear it from players too. But maybe thats just because parents are foolish enough to discuss their negative feelings around the dinner table.
Its also easy to jump from summer program-to-summer program and not easy to jump from HS-to-HS. Thus, maybe some people feel trapped in their HS program. I don't know...just rambling here.
Sorry about your missed lunch. Hope I didn't distract you away from it.
Its also easy to jump from summer program-to-summer program and not easy to jump from HS-to-HS. Thus, maybe some people feel trapped in their HS program. I don't know...just rambling here.
Sorry about your missed lunch. Hope I didn't distract you away from it.
I dont belive that HS baseball will ever out live it's usefullness. I can say this and my son played on a very high level select summer team.
The emotion of HS ball is far more intence than summer ball, Why, heck I dont know but I do know that the emotions of HS ball set's players and parents on edge.
During HS the players are dealing with so many social issues, classes, lol carzy demanding coaches who for some strange reason expect them to concentrate on ball while there are so many good looking girls hanging around and can you belive that the teachers expect them to study and learn there lessons.
HS is a time of a young mans life when things seem to take on a greater then normal importance.
Parents are worrying about there son's grades, who they are dating, how well they are playing etc, just makes for a very stressfull time. seems worse the senior year. If a player is trying , hopeing to play college ball the stess can become almost unbearable.
Then comes summer ball, the one expectation WIN,do that and every thing is fine.
A summer coach does not have to worry about grades, girls etc. all he has to do is Win.
HS coaches need to win also but most of them wont loose their job if they dont. Hs ball and summer all are Apple and Oranges.
The emotion of HS ball is far more intence than summer ball, Why, heck I dont know but I do know that the emotions of HS ball set's players and parents on edge.
During HS the players are dealing with so many social issues, classes, lol carzy demanding coaches who for some strange reason expect them to concentrate on ball while there are so many good looking girls hanging around and can you belive that the teachers expect them to study and learn there lessons.
HS is a time of a young mans life when things seem to take on a greater then normal importance.
Parents are worrying about there son's grades, who they are dating, how well they are playing etc, just makes for a very stressfull time. seems worse the senior year. If a player is trying , hopeing to play college ball the stess can become almost unbearable.
Then comes summer ball, the one expectation WIN,do that and every thing is fine.
A summer coach does not have to worry about grades, girls etc. all he has to do is Win.
HS coaches need to win also but most of them wont loose their job if they dont. Hs ball and summer all are Apple and Oranges.
quote:
However, I can name one prominent coach in the St. Louis Area that makes a habit out of doing it. In fact, he takes credit for everything that kids accomplish when some of them haven't played ball for him at all.
Yes, we know who you're speaking of.
I do have a feeling that those high school coaches, like yourself, who participate on this board, are among the better coaches. If for no other reason, the interest you show. You are right about good and bad in nearly everything. I don't think people should ever receive either credit or disrespect based on their title alone.
grateful,
Apology accepted, of course. And thanks for the kind compliments.
The reason it was mentioned is because I actually hate the business side of baseball, but I love this site and enjoy reading what people have to say. Though, I would be a lot more controversial, if it weren't for the business side. I'm just an old baseball guy, not a business person, and if I can help someone who shares my interest, it gives me great pleasure. Just like so many other people who contribute here. Including yourself!
Coach B25 -
I was talking with my kids about your post (one JUCO baseballer, one HS softballer). Neither has totally zeroed in on a degree, but both are considering coaching. I told them your thoughts about coaching and then asked for their thoughts - why would they consider coaching/teaching?
They responded with, "I would be connected to something I love at the team level. Besides, I KNOW what kind of coach I do not want to be. My goal would be to be the type of coach I always wanted to play for."
I have a feeling that you, Coach May and the other coaches on this board are the type of coaches my kids were talking about. They may not see your kind very often, but when they do, you make a big difference.
Thanks.
I was talking with my kids about your post (one JUCO baseballer, one HS softballer). Neither has totally zeroed in on a degree, but both are considering coaching. I told them your thoughts about coaching and then asked for their thoughts - why would they consider coaching/teaching?
They responded with, "I would be connected to something I love at the team level. Besides, I KNOW what kind of coach I do not want to be. My goal would be to be the type of coach I always wanted to play for."
I have a feeling that you, Coach May and the other coaches on this board are the type of coaches my kids were talking about. They may not see your kind very often, but when they do, you make a big difference.
Thanks.
OK, it has been declared, decried, decreed.
The debate is over.
High School Baseball sucks and the coaches, too.
So, I am assuming all of you are not going out for the team, right?
And select don't start til June 1.
So, bad boys, what cha gonna do til they come for you?
Turn off the power, PooBah............
The debate is over.
High School Baseball sucks and the coaches, too.
So, I am assuming all of you are not going out for the team, right?
And select don't start til June 1.
So, bad boys, what cha gonna do til they come for you?
Turn off the power, PooBah............
quote:
Originally posted by dominick:
This is a great question. HS baseball has taken a hit, as has all HS sports. Select, AAU, travel teams and showcases do minimize HS contests. HS games/teams are still relevant, but they has been marginalized by scouts, evaluators and college coaches. I am not certain that this development is necessarily bad . . . but it is changing even more. Now sports-oriented HS academies, once for prodigies only, are being more prominent.
Wrong.........I see about 100 high school games every year and have never seen a game at an academy.
Hoop
You say High School coaches need to win but if they don't but most of them wont lose their job of they dont. Where I came from string a few losing seasons together and people get antsy.
You say High School coaches need to win but if they don't but most of them wont lose their job of they dont. Where I came from string a few losing seasons together and people get antsy.
What I have read too much of is that all the parents love the summer coach, but don't care for the high school coach.........why is that? Could it be that the parents choose the summer program that they know their son will get a chance to play on? Could it be that they have to earn their spot on the high school team?
From my personal experience:
My sons HS coach knew baseball but knew squat about recruiting and the talent at the time my son was playing on his HS team was minimal ( three season and no more tha 6 wins a season)
We talked and we became friends in my sons sophomore year---he did nothing to truly help my son directly recruiting wise but then for three years the kid hit in the # 3 hole and coach made sure the kid had his name in the papers--NO he made no calls-- NO he sent no letters--I laugh when I think of him asking me if I knew who Fresno State was. But that was Coach !!!!
Yes I have been critical of some HS coaches and I can do the same for my sons HS coach --he did not bring the "kid" to varsity when the kid was a freshman because he had a senior who he said had paid his dues--the "kid" played JV as a frosh and blossomed--if he played varsity as a frosh would it have been the same-- WHO KNOWS!!! bottom line is that he, coach, explained it all and did what he felt was the right thing in his mind--he, the "kid" played every inning of every game on JV as a frosh and never missed an inning from soph to senior year and was in the center fold of the yearbook in full uniform and with his bat.
Did the coach do all I would have liked ? NO
Was my sons HS career impeded by him ? NO
Did my son have a very successful HS career? YES
Did he get a Division I scholarship? YES
Yes I am critical of many HS coaches, there are also select coaches who are no better, but if you talk with them and reach a common ground it can work for you--use the HS coaches strengths and on your own work to overcome his weaknesses
My biggest problem with most HS coaches is not concerning the recruiting process, that we can overcome with a bit of work, but the over use of pitching arms-- most do not know how to develop a staff of frontliners and secondary pitchers and I do not why they cannot !!!! The teams that win every year have a system and it aint that tough to figure it out
NO !!! HS baseball has not and will never outlive it usefullness-- If you as a parent have as problem or question sit down before the season and chat with the coach and AD---BUT MAKE SURE YOUR KID HAS THE GOODS THAT WARRANT YOU CALLING FOR SUCH A MEETING!!!!!
In my mind you need all of the following aspects: HS baseball, summer baseball/fall baseball (Travel Teams) and Showcases and GOOD COACHES at all realms
Go for it--- no coach is perfect-take what they have to offer and work with it
My sons HS coach knew baseball but knew squat about recruiting and the talent at the time my son was playing on his HS team was minimal ( three season and no more tha 6 wins a season)
We talked and we became friends in my sons sophomore year---he did nothing to truly help my son directly recruiting wise but then for three years the kid hit in the # 3 hole and coach made sure the kid had his name in the papers--NO he made no calls-- NO he sent no letters--I laugh when I think of him asking me if I knew who Fresno State was. But that was Coach !!!!
Yes I have been critical of some HS coaches and I can do the same for my sons HS coach --he did not bring the "kid" to varsity when the kid was a freshman because he had a senior who he said had paid his dues--the "kid" played JV as a frosh and blossomed--if he played varsity as a frosh would it have been the same-- WHO KNOWS!!! bottom line is that he, coach, explained it all and did what he felt was the right thing in his mind--he, the "kid" played every inning of every game on JV as a frosh and never missed an inning from soph to senior year and was in the center fold of the yearbook in full uniform and with his bat.
Did the coach do all I would have liked ? NO
Was my sons HS career impeded by him ? NO
Did my son have a very successful HS career? YES
Did he get a Division I scholarship? YES
Yes I am critical of many HS coaches, there are also select coaches who are no better, but if you talk with them and reach a common ground it can work for you--use the HS coaches strengths and on your own work to overcome his weaknesses
My biggest problem with most HS coaches is not concerning the recruiting process, that we can overcome with a bit of work, but the over use of pitching arms-- most do not know how to develop a staff of frontliners and secondary pitchers and I do not why they cannot !!!! The teams that win every year have a system and it aint that tough to figure it out
NO !!! HS baseball has not and will never outlive it usefullness-- If you as a parent have as problem or question sit down before the season and chat with the coach and AD---BUT MAKE SURE YOUR KID HAS THE GOODS THAT WARRANT YOU CALLING FOR SUCH A MEETING!!!!!
In my mind you need all of the following aspects: HS baseball, summer baseball/fall baseball (Travel Teams) and Showcases and GOOD COACHES at all realms
Go for it--- no coach is perfect-take what they have to offer and work with it
Nawp, couldn't be that bbscout...........
And TRHit, they play two games a week. Even I can figure out the pitching rotation.
And TRHit, they play two games a week. Even I can figure out the pitching rotation.
quote:
And TRHit, they play two games a week. Even I can figure out the pitching rotation.
My sons High school team plays between 3 and 6 games a week. So it isn't always as simple as 2 games a week.
Then it starts to get complicated, especially of you only have 3-4 pitchers and one gets hurt.
BigWI,
At more than two games a week in high school you are SOL.
At more than two games a week in high school you are SOL.
TR that was a great post. Alot of people could learn from your experience. You took a potential bad situation and made the best of it. Great post
Here in the Northeast teams have been known to play 4 games in 5 days, even 5 in 5 days due to weather and the need to get x amount of games in
In NJ the teams play a regular HS schedule plus tournaments on the weekends--coaches had better know what they are doing with their pitchers
In NJ the teams play a regular HS schedule plus tournaments on the weekends--coaches had better know what they are doing with their pitchers
quote:
Originally posted by AParent:
PIC
I might be way off but I don't agree with your analogy of AP classes, , boredom due to competitive level etc. The challenge is in the player, not the game.
Playing on a team with kids who can't catch, throw or adjust to the bounce is frustrating for sure. But there are two sides to every story.
How about the infielder who knows that EVERY throw to 1st base must be PERFECT or it won't be caught. Or a pitcher that knows a wild pitch is an automatic scores. Or a catcher that knows that a throw to second might end up in the outfield.
A talented player learns how to compensate. He learns not to throw a little high, or a little left, or to hold the ball when every instinct tells him to throw it because can see that the 3rd baseman isn't even looking.
Then one day he gets on a team where all the players are GOOD and he finds out just what it is like to let loose and play. And it is a true joy. In the same way a sunny day is so much more instense and bright after a week of dismal weather overcast
We can learn from most experiences if we look for the challenges.
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The examples you describe assumes that the AP level player can make up for all the mistakes that the less skilled players make, and that is just not realistic. The AP level player is part of a team, which he cannot ignore. He plays "with" them as a team, and becomes part of their skill level for the time period he is with them so he can fit in. He lives to play another day in the hope that he will get his chance to play for a team that has players that more match his skills. If that were not so there would be no need for select baseball.
But that is not the thrust of this discussion, but whether HS baseball has outlived its usefulness...the answer to the topic question is a resounding no. It is as important today as it was when I played many many years ago. Why because the baseball program is not about any one single individual, nor the coach. Nor is about getting scholarships for players be they worthy of them or not.
HS baseball is about representing the school in a learning process of HS athletics. It is there for students to participate in for the sole purpose of learning how to work together and strive together in an environment of teamwork. It is not there to be used by a few parents, or coaches to feather their own nest as a career stepping stone to the next job opportunity. I have witnessed this sort of thing here in Marin and it is very destructive to the HS programs. As a result the Board Of Education has relegated the HS coaches as parttime, special classified, non-tenured help, and they make about $1,500.00 for an entire season as a volunteer.
The result is it has destroyed the continuity of the programs. Bill Walsh, 49er ex-coach, and HOF-er recently said that the lack of tenured coaches has reduced California as the major bastion for recruiting HS sports talent that it used to be. In many schools in California HS baseball has been eliminated as a Spring sport from the curriculum.
The answer to a good HS baseball program is parent envolvement and continued support with funding otherwise it is likely that the topic subject here may be prophetic.
Trhit
High School coaches. How are they judged? You said your sons high school coach knew nothing about recruiting? what are you supposed to know? With all due respect parents think one. Coaches think many. Despite what some think coaches in high school have to coach and run practice and run a "program". During my tenure if a coach contacted me i did all i could in reccomending players. I was honest to their questions. I returned calls. I always thought my job was to do my best to bring 18 kids together and be successful. "Part" of that success was the possibility of scholarships etc. Although some players did receive aid to go to college I always felt it was from what they did on the field and in the classroom. Basically it was on them. If they needed a little push or a good word I was there. But my main job was to coach these kids and hopefully win more than we lost.
High School coaches. How are they judged? You said your sons high school coach knew nothing about recruiting? what are you supposed to know? With all due respect parents think one. Coaches think many. Despite what some think coaches in high school have to coach and run practice and run a "program". During my tenure if a coach contacted me i did all i could in reccomending players. I was honest to their questions. I returned calls. I always thought my job was to do my best to bring 18 kids together and be successful. "Part" of that success was the possibility of scholarships etc. Although some players did receive aid to go to college I always felt it was from what they did on the field and in the classroom. Basically it was on them. If they needed a little push or a good word I was there. But my main job was to coach these kids and hopefully win more than we lost.
Will,
You are not going to get an argument from me. Coaches run practices, run a program, try to win, etc. To expect them to also get your kid a scholarship is unreasonable. Some coaches try to be, and think they are, all things to all people. The reality is that they are limited in their ability to accomplish getting a player a scholarship. Yes they can answer calls, make redcomdations, etc.
It is up to the family to market and the coach to confirm. To expect more is unrealistic. If you get it, you have a special coach, be happy about it.
I will say it and stand by it. Most coaches are not equipped to help players "find" scholarships at a place that is a good "fit". Many are equipped to help a kid find a place locally if he has the talent and ability, but did not gt the exposure. That is a wonderful thing.
You are not going to get an argument from me. Coaches run practices, run a program, try to win, etc. To expect them to also get your kid a scholarship is unreasonable. Some coaches try to be, and think they are, all things to all people. The reality is that they are limited in their ability to accomplish getting a player a scholarship. Yes they can answer calls, make redcomdations, etc.
It is up to the family to market and the coach to confirm. To expect more is unrealistic. If you get it, you have a special coach, be happy about it.
I will say it and stand by it. Most coaches are not equipped to help players "find" scholarships at a place that is a good "fit". Many are equipped to help a kid find a place locally if he has the talent and ability, but did not gt the exposure. That is a wonderful thing.
will
I am not judging I am simply stating fact--he had no concept of what the recruiting process was--he had been there over thirty years and I was told by school officials that my son , as far as they could find,was the first baseball player ever to get a scholarship for baseball to a major Division I college and they had some pretty good players over the years in their program.
Did hinder my sons process? NO !!! and that is just as important, to me anyways, as he helping the process.
I personally accept any help a HS coach can give, and that does happen, but I do not expect it -- not expecting it helps in which direction the parents/player go as well how we as a program strive to help our kids.
Like I say it is not a knock just a fact !!!
And whether the coach helps you or not one still needs to be extremely pro-active on their sons behalf--it should be a team affair--HS ( AD, Coach and Guidance Counselor), summer /fall coach and the parents/player---but sometimes the balance of effort is not equal.
I am not judging I am simply stating fact--he had no concept of what the recruiting process was--he had been there over thirty years and I was told by school officials that my son , as far as they could find,was the first baseball player ever to get a scholarship for baseball to a major Division I college and they had some pretty good players over the years in their program.
Did hinder my sons process? NO !!! and that is just as important, to me anyways, as he helping the process.
I personally accept any help a HS coach can give, and that does happen, but I do not expect it -- not expecting it helps in which direction the parents/player go as well how we as a program strive to help our kids.
Like I say it is not a knock just a fact !!!
And whether the coach helps you or not one still needs to be extremely pro-active on their sons behalf--it should be a team affair--HS ( AD, Coach and Guidance Counselor), summer /fall coach and the parents/player---but sometimes the balance of effort is not equal.
Whether the high school coach is good or bad, it is not his job to get his players scholarships.
His measure of success should be his W-L record and have a positive impact on the players that he coaches and that might include nudging the scholarship process along.
The primary responsbility for getting your son into college is the parents and the player.
When you take that approach and look around, you will soon realize that there are others doing their part as well, including the high school coach.
If they high school coach came to you and said, "I have a full ride scholarship to a D1 university ready for your son."
Would you take it sign unseen? (to coin a phrase).
His measure of success should be his W-L record and have a positive impact on the players that he coaches and that might include nudging the scholarship process along.
The primary responsbility for getting your son into college is the parents and the player.
When you take that approach and look around, you will soon realize that there are others doing their part as well, including the high school coach.
If they high school coach came to you and said, "I have a full ride scholarship to a D1 university ready for your son."
Would you take it sign unseen? (to coin a phrase).
FO
Would I??? NO WAY !
Would I??? NO WAY !
Coach B25 and Will. We need many more like you. We need to pay a better stipend. We need AD's and administrators to hire real coaches that know the game and how to deal with recruiting. This coaching baseball is a tough job, which if done properly pays about minimum wage. No wonder parents and coaches complain. Its the School Board they should complain to. Ask for higher wages and less cronyism. Maybe then we'll increase the chances for the coach to be like Coach B25! That said it is still the parents that must put the time in with college coaches etc. Its the HS coaches job to help and confirm.
A kid can play at the next level or he can not. Basically all a high school coach or any coach for that matter is work with them. 3 or 4 times a week the bell rings and it is game time. Sink or swim hit or miss or whatever analogy you think appropriate. somebody from a college sees the game and the kid does well then the ball starts rolling. If he does not play well then there is a bump in the road. Either way it is on the player. The coach can help fascilitate the process but there is a bottom line.
quote:
And TRHit, they play two games a week. Even I can figure out the pitching rotation.
WHAT? We play 35 games each year not counting the state playoffs. We play a span of 7 games in 6 days which includes 2 tournaments. We do this to stretch our pitching and make 3,4,5 have to throw under pressure so that they will be ready for the post season. BTW, we also have 2 Conference games in that span. Naturally, our top pitchers will have to throw conference. 2 games a week? You're killing me with that one!!!
This is probably one of those replies that won’t rattle fellow members or get much of a response, however, it is something that I really wanted to voice concerning high school baseball coaches and just some random ramblings.
My son started at his high school four years ago and signed his NLI for a D1 school and just received his admission acceptance letter. After about a year in high school I somehow wandered upon this site and one of the questions I asked concerned whether or not he should stay where he was – A private school, great academics, OK baseball or transfer to a large local public high school that was a baseball power and had a reputation for some discipline problems. (We actually won our District last year). The consensus was stay where he was. The advice was taken into consideration with all of the pro’s and con’s. He stayed and enjoyed a great high school experience. He was “noticed” during high school years and played on the Coral Springs Pokers travel team this past summer where he was seen by the college where he eventually signed.
For all of the ripping that high school coaches take, I applaud those who do their “jobs.” My son’s baseball coach has been at the school for 30+ years, he is a member of the Florida High School Sports Hall of Fame as well as the Palm Beach County Hall of Fame. Before going to the school we had been told that the coach could be somewhat of a total jerk, but because my son had never had a problem with any type of coach, this was something that never really concerned us. It couldn’t have been further from the truth.
Not only being his coach, he has been a teacher, a counselor, sometimes a father-figure and a good friend to my son. He has yelled at him when he needed it, has been there when he had “problems” and he has been there when he simply needed someone to talk to. Now a senior the two routinely get together and just “BS” about baseball in his office during a PE class. They talk about ideas for their uniforms, players, and upcoming freshman this season. The coach doesn’t call me, but when he does see me he let’s me know what’s going on and that he’s “taken care of it.” He returned calls from colleges and let’s me know who has called and who has not. He honestly filled out questionnaires when asked and returned them promptly to the schools.
When my son was a freshman and made the varsity team he told me that he wouldn’t keep him there unless he played regularly. Seven games into the season and after giving a senior infielder the opportunity, my son became a starter and has started every game since. This was another topic brought to the message board a couple years back, freshman vs. seniors.
My son tends to live on the edge, so to speak, never getting into real trouble in school, but enough to keep us on our toes. It has turned out to be a great fit and we owe so much to the coach. Too much emphasis is made on the baseball aspect of coaching and not the other intangibles that our son’s learn – Leadership, loyalty, commitment, friendship, work ethic, etc. When my son finishes playing it will be these other things that will stay with him the rest of his adult life, not the actual playing of baseball.
Some parents expect too much from their high school coaches and it seems that the parents want the coach to do the work for them. They expect a high school coach to make “Little Johnny” a D1 and/or pro prospect when a coach can only do so much. If a kid can’t play or has limited skills by the time he is 15-16, there’s a good chance no matter what kind of coaching they get, they never will. So when I hear grumbling about coaching, coaching decisions, and getting “new blood in here,” it’s usually from parents of players who have not met the parents expectations and they need someone to blame. Instead of working with their kids before the season starts and on weekends, they blame the coach for failure of their kid.
I’m going to stop now, because I probably lost half (or more) of you by now. I personally thank all of you good coaches out there, whose success shouldn’t be always measured by wins and losses.
My son started at his high school four years ago and signed his NLI for a D1 school and just received his admission acceptance letter. After about a year in high school I somehow wandered upon this site and one of the questions I asked concerned whether or not he should stay where he was – A private school, great academics, OK baseball or transfer to a large local public high school that was a baseball power and had a reputation for some discipline problems. (We actually won our District last year). The consensus was stay where he was. The advice was taken into consideration with all of the pro’s and con’s. He stayed and enjoyed a great high school experience. He was “noticed” during high school years and played on the Coral Springs Pokers travel team this past summer where he was seen by the college where he eventually signed.
For all of the ripping that high school coaches take, I applaud those who do their “jobs.” My son’s baseball coach has been at the school for 30+ years, he is a member of the Florida High School Sports Hall of Fame as well as the Palm Beach County Hall of Fame. Before going to the school we had been told that the coach could be somewhat of a total jerk, but because my son had never had a problem with any type of coach, this was something that never really concerned us. It couldn’t have been further from the truth.
Not only being his coach, he has been a teacher, a counselor, sometimes a father-figure and a good friend to my son. He has yelled at him when he needed it, has been there when he had “problems” and he has been there when he simply needed someone to talk to. Now a senior the two routinely get together and just “BS” about baseball in his office during a PE class. They talk about ideas for their uniforms, players, and upcoming freshman this season. The coach doesn’t call me, but when he does see me he let’s me know what’s going on and that he’s “taken care of it.” He returned calls from colleges and let’s me know who has called and who has not. He honestly filled out questionnaires when asked and returned them promptly to the schools.
When my son was a freshman and made the varsity team he told me that he wouldn’t keep him there unless he played regularly. Seven games into the season and after giving a senior infielder the opportunity, my son became a starter and has started every game since. This was another topic brought to the message board a couple years back, freshman vs. seniors.
My son tends to live on the edge, so to speak, never getting into real trouble in school, but enough to keep us on our toes. It has turned out to be a great fit and we owe so much to the coach. Too much emphasis is made on the baseball aspect of coaching and not the other intangibles that our son’s learn – Leadership, loyalty, commitment, friendship, work ethic, etc. When my son finishes playing it will be these other things that will stay with him the rest of his adult life, not the actual playing of baseball.
Some parents expect too much from their high school coaches and it seems that the parents want the coach to do the work for them. They expect a high school coach to make “Little Johnny” a D1 and/or pro prospect when a coach can only do so much. If a kid can’t play or has limited skills by the time he is 15-16, there’s a good chance no matter what kind of coaching they get, they never will. So when I hear grumbling about coaching, coaching decisions, and getting “new blood in here,” it’s usually from parents of players who have not met the parents expectations and they need someone to blame. Instead of working with their kids before the season starts and on weekends, they blame the coach for failure of their kid.
I’m going to stop now, because I probably lost half (or more) of you by now. I personally thank all of you good coaches out there, whose success shouldn’t be always measured by wins and losses.
CanesFan that was awesome. That was a great post. Good luck to you and your son.
Canes5
I read every word.
Congrats to your son. I wish I'd known he was a Poker. That was a very good team. I was at the FAU tourney last summer. If his college coaches do their "job" too, he'll enjoy that as well.
I read every word.
Congrats to your son. I wish I'd known he was a Poker. That was a very good team. I was at the FAU tourney last summer. If his college coaches do their "job" too, he'll enjoy that as well.
Canesfan, I read every word too....it was a positive post, a happy read! Good luck to your son.
Canesfan,
Great post !! mirrors my feeling about our high school coach, he even laminated my son's NLI and has it up in his room behind his desk.I know my son will always be "his " kid.
Catchersdad
Great post !! mirrors my feeling about our high school coach, he even laminated my son's NLI and has it up in his room behind his desk.I know my son will always be "his " kid.
Catchersdad