Headfirst $1000

That's pretty brutal, but it's all a matter of economics. When people stop paying and the events stop getting sold out, pricing will stop increasing. Imagine the extra income brought in with an extra $100 per player.

Until then they will keep charging what they charge, because they can!

I think the entire showcase process is out of control and has lost touch with economics. While I am a great fan of the HF camps, 1000 has crossed the rubicon. Maybe someday an innovator will give families value is some relation to what is gained. HF is the king of the academic D1 and D3s - the overwhelming number of coaches your S will be exposed to have no athletic money to give. So, for the amazing sum of 1000 (plus room, board and transportation) you are exposed to a coach who can give you no $$$.

Where are the programs who give development plus exposure? And given the cost of flawed showcase/camps formats, how much would that program charge?

My son has attended PG, Demarini and HF showcases. The HF event attracted a different group of coaches and players. IMHO the format was the most effective of the three I mentioned for students who are looking to attend a high academic school.

If a player is looking to play at the best baseball school possible with the maximum scholarship possible, HF might not be the best choice.

Do I think the charge is high? Yes, very. Do they sell out? Yes.

Not everyone who wants to play baseball in college is looking to play as a way to finance college. Some are looking to use baseball to help them get into a high academic school, and hope to either be able to pay or qualify for financial aid or merit scholarships. Some want to find the best academic school they can attend and where they can also play baseball because they don't expect to play after college.

Chat with the parents at a HF showcase and the conversation will be about SATS/GPAs more than ERAs and BA.

I'll echo what twotex had to say. My son (current senior) attended both PG and HF events. HF has an outstanding format and they do deliver what they say. It was the by far the best run event that he has been to. Lots of coaches and lots of opportunity for real interaction with coaches that are looking to recruit players. My son is one of those kids looking for high academics and for him, HF was the best event he attended last summer. I would still do it again given his interest in the schools that attended - plus, he ended up getting recruited by one of his top choice schools.

That said, it is very expensive and the price keeps going up which is really too bad... not really that much of a surprise given that they sell out every event. If your son has real interest in a number of the schools that attend and you can swing the expense then it's still worth it... I have two more boys coming up so I'll be applying the same test when their time comes.

We are still probably going next summer. That may be the only showcase we do.My son is inteersted in a number of the schools on the list. He is looking for a good academic school, D3, where we can hopefully get some merit aid.

This is why some of the schools are dropping out of HF and doing GPA and some other venues. I believe some of the Ivy's do their own camps where they have multiple schools. Stanford camp is an alternative also.

Those newer alternatives are not designed with the players' economics in mind. Quite the opposite - GPA just wants to sup at the trough. What the newer entries bring is more fragmentation to the market with no apparent advantage to the players.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
the same teams on your wish list can still see you if you are on a solid showcase travel team

The entire travel/select/showcase baseball cost is out of control!!! As parents we want the best for our son's and want to maximize their abilities and opportunities. However, we are the one's who are willing to pay it and the industry is more than happy to accept it. $1,000.00 for Headfirst plus $500 for travel, lodging, meals, etc...no problem. $4,000.00 + for a good, high exposure club program that trains all year at an state-of-the-art indoor facility...no problem. Another $700 or $1,400.00 for a PG showcase or two...no problem. For us this started in youth baseball at around the 10-11U age. Traveling twice a year to Southaven, MS or to USSSA World Series and it has continued through high school. Thankfully we only have another year left. Great memories, lots of fun, a roller coaster ride of performance and other baseball related issues. But is it worth it is the question...I could probably pay a couple of years of tuition/room and board with what we have spent.

quote:

Headfirst $1000

Ouch! I agree this is getting out of control. It was $795 in 2009. At the time, we thought it over for a few days before committing to it. It ended up being one of the best decisions we made in terms of baseball recruiting. However, I would have to think long and hard about doing it again at this price even with my younger son's kicking in for part of the fee. We would have to re-think the exposure strategy altogether given these rising prices.

BTW....I find it interesting that GPA now includes Temple as Ryan Wheeler was recently promoted to head coach there. He was asst head coach at Richmond, and a very good one at that. Previously the GPA site listed Richmond along with Penn, Brown, Cornell, Wake Forest, Georgetown. Now, I see Temple listed on the website. I don't necessarily think of Temple at the same high academic level as the other schools. As a paying customer, I would want to see more high academic schools listed.

quote:

Originally posted by fenwaysouth:
BTW....I find it interesting that GPA now includes Temple as Ryan Wheeler was recently promoted to head coach there. He was asst head coach at Richmond, and a very good one at that. Previously the GPA site listed Richmond along with Penn, Brown, Cornell, Wake Forest, Georgetown. Now, I see Temple listed on the website. I don't necessarily think of Temple at the same high academic level as the other schools. As a paying customer, I would want to see more high academic schools listed.

Sorry to be so cynical, but I guess somebody still wants in on his cut...

You don't have to be sorry birdman. All events, regardless who puts them on, are money makers. I don't think anyone imagines they are done for altruistic reasons. There are other high academic events out there, so just do your homework. If you live near where they are being put on it saves additional $$ on hotel, etc. For West Coast players I would skip it and do Stanford instead, it is a longer event, more teaching, and probably more fun. I believe PG is doing a high academic event now.

TRhit is correct that a travel team might work, however these events get a small target audience at one place.

I have talked to some college coaches who are concerned about the high cost of Headfirst and are looking at other ways to identify players. The best IMO is the “academic game” at the Ariz Fall Classic. It however is a single game and you have to try out for it, so it is a bit of a cr a p shoot.

$1000 + expenses is certainly a high price tag. I think it all comes down to identifying where your son might fit academically/baseball skill wise and then getting exposure to those schools. For our son HeadFirst was excellent. Stanford was excellent. He also attended 2 college camps which were poor, so even though the cost was low the value was really low. There are approximately 40 coaches at HeadFirst and more at Stanford. Hard to get that exposure at many other camps.
Good Luck!

I have talked to some college coaches who are concerned about the high cost of Headfirst and are looking at other ways to identify players. QUOTE]


I would love to hear more about those conversations. It would be a good thread for HSBBW parents to follow.

Would it be smart to have my son even ASK this question of the coaches he is seeing/hearing from? He is getting some attention, and maybe he can candidly ask these guys "can I get seen enough by you and your peer schools this coming season, without doing Head First and/or GPA and/or Stanford?"

I am really gulping at the HF cost ... knowing what else we will be spending. (At least, the transportation is just the ferry ride, and housing can be in a nearby friend's house!)

We are really liking the targetted, regional events that are $150 /175, and he gets personal connection to the coach. Some of the higher academic schools who are writing now are saying they are 'thinking about an on campus event this winter' and maybe this is what BOF is talking about.

Baseballmom,

I am reluctant to give names of the coaches I have talked to for obvious reasons, but I know many are concerned about the costs of these events limiting their pool of prospects. I looked at both Stanford and Headfirst for my son and decided to do Stanford. I did not think it was necessary to do both as many schools just go from the Stanford camp one week and the Headfirst camp in Sacramento the following week. In fact they organize the dates to make it easy for schools to do this. The school he is at now initially saw him there and I had never even heard of them, and also did not know they identified him there. They followed up and saw him again in the fall and when he did not sign an NLI they came after him hard. I frankly did not have the foresight to identify D3’s in our recruiting process and got lucky that we were at events that had these types of schools there, which is one reason to do these types of camps. If however you have already identified a number of schools that fit what you are looking for then I would think that most schools could find places to see your son play if he was already

There is no one right way to do college recruiting and costs certainly have to be taken into account. At $1,000 I would be looking for alternatives also. Schools do not really care about their peers, they are out looking for themselves and I would by all means talk to any coach (your son not you) that has interest and see if he is going to be at some of the events your son will be playing at. Headfirst does a great job, however there are alternatives and at $1,000 IMO they are reducing their prospective customer base. They will keep raising the costs until they stop selling out, so the market will set the price eventually.

When my son went to Headfirst I think the cost was $795 and there were easy over 80 college coaches at the event. (about 3 -4 years ago) I was surprised by B4bme post that there was only 40 coaches at the Headfirst event he attended.

Our POV was that our experience was well worth the money spent and had recommend the showcase to friends.

But I have to admit a $1000 it would make me stop and pause/question the cost effectivness especailly if they are only drawing 40 coaches.

Do they still have a no refund policy for bad weather?

I think BOF is right..still America and if they keep selling out they will keep testing the limit....guess if it was my business I would do the same thing

I had a coach just mention they would be at the camp. I told him that we would not be going and that the whole process with big money being spent totally turned me off. Told him I guess if my son choses his school he will show up the first day of practice.

I haven't been on this board for a few years because my son just started his Junior year in college. But, being a slow day and the fact I work from home, I decided to take a look at the HS message board. My son attended the Headfirst showcase in Virginia in 2008 and I regard it as a well run, highly attended event where each player gets the opportunity to play in front of coaches from all levels. My son received over 40 letters of interest; in fact it was almost overwhelming for him. Back then I believe it was around $795 (as mentioned by a poster) plus the cost of travel. We combined it with his looking at colleges, so it wasn't too bad. I'd say "Go".

As with many high priced items, the people who fork over the money will find many reasons why it was worth it. After all, they thought about it and rationalized it and when all those "I'm interested and by the way I have my own camp" letters come in, well, that just makes it all seem worth it.

But really, if chatter at HF among parents is more about "GPA and SAT Scores than BA" doesn't it stand to reason that the player caliber overall will be slightly suspect? And with that in mind, doesn't it stand to reason that the High Academic schools need to look at players with great grades and hope to find a good caliber player at the same time. So follow the thought process, a high achiever in the classroom who wants to play ball in college has a distinct advantage over a fellow high achiever who does not play.

Do you really have to spend $1,000 to figure that out?

Shouldn't you first consider your target schools, and then figure out how to get the coach's attention?

There are much cheaper ways to get in front of these high caliber schools, whether it be at their camp, or a travel tournament in their back yard, or by chatting it up with the coach and establishing a relationship where he can check with your HS and Travel coaches to see if you are worth pursuing.

As to Showcase Organizers, why not charge $100 more every year until the trough runs dry? Its capitalism with a capital C. Not their fault, only that of those paying it.

We went to a "showcase" if that's what you want to call it at Pomona College in Ca. over the weekend. Cost was $90 for the day. I am figuring at the end of this process he will be interested in about 5 or 6 D 3 schools. If one of them takes him he will go. Being from Arizona I put these pricey showcases in the same category as the high priced club teams in Phoenix.

And for what its worth, $90 can either be viewed as cheap or expensive depending on the reason for attending. Perhaps you wanted to expose him to a showcase environment? Then the $90 is well spent. Beyond that, you would want to be sure there are schools there where you may have an interest. If not, it may have been just as poorly spent to send $90 their way as it would be to send $1,000 to HF.

And if there were schools of interest there, its incumbent on the investor to reach out to said schools IN ADVANCE so that they will look for your guy in particular.

Remember, most Showcases show off the pitching, not much more, so unless a coach is watching you go through the motions to analyze your skill capacity, it could be money poorly spent.

This string has made me interested in exactly what do you get for your $1000 for the right to attend Headfirst. My son signed up for Headfirst in 2009 and then ended up not going because he verbally committed to the school he is currently attending. So, I personally have never observed the way this showcase is run. Many people I have talked with are very pleased with the way it was run and the resulting interest in their son.

I checked out their site last night and was surprised at what I saw as far as schools listed to have attended last year. Here is a post with the schools listed from the 2009 event: http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/f...=487109002#487109002 . This shows 79 total schools and 27 D1's. For sure in a very short period of time (3 years) something about this showcase has changed. The largest number of schools I saw listed on their site was for the LI events at 67. Other events in CA and FL had around 40 schools.

Of the 67 schools listed in LI, 46 were what I would call D3 private colleges. Almost all of them would be considered some of the best academic schools in the country. As well, they are some of the most expensive full priced colleges to attend and they have no athletic scholarships available to offer.

Of the remaining 20 schools, 19 are D1. 4 of these are Ivy League (need based financial aid only) and 4 more from the Patriot League (these schools cannot offer athletic scholarships either). Only 2 of the remaining schools are what I would consider top baseball/academic school (Stanford and UVA - both fully funded and compete to go to Omaha on a regular basis). The rest are all mid to low D1 schools and some only partially funded. Really there is nothing wrong with this because again, many of these schools are some the best academic schools in the country, as well as having very large tuitions required to attend.

Now, all this has my cynical mind thinking again. IMHO maybe there is a method to what Headfirst is doing. Maybe they are just satisfying their market - you know - the colleges that attend and "work" their showcases. Although they won't admit this, the goal of many of the highest priced schools in the country is to admit as many students with parents who have the ability to pay their "full price" costs. Maybe the thinking is that if parents can afford to drop $1000 on a "cattle call" type showcase (+250 ) without thought, maybe this is the type of student majority of these schools "working" the showcase are looking for. Maybe Headfirst is just accommodating the needs of their consumer?

Back in 2009 if I had seen the current schools attending, I would have had to think long and hard about signing up. IMO it has changed that much. Maybe if you have to think about whether you can afford to attend this showcase, you should think about something else. Can you afford to send your kids to some of these schools? You think $1000 is a lot to think about, just wait...

I called it a showcase but it was just a prospect camp for Pomona. Son would like to go to school there.

Before weighing in on a few questions pertaining to our events (after which we’ll depart from the conversation), we want to say at the outset that we have great respect for this forum. It is an excellent resource of information for parents and players alike. We post here occasionally (and only as ourselves), but read the threads often and have learned a lot about our customers and business here over the years.

Our prices have increased for summer/fall 2012. We are well-aware that our tuition represents a significant investment of resources. As a result, we take our job as Camp Directors, and the role of our events in students’ recruiting processes, extremely seriously. Our prices are not determined casually or arbitrarily, and we’ll continue to aim for 100% customer satisfaction. That said, in a business where most of the customers are new each year, we recognize that the only relevant issue for readers here is value for price.

Our mission is to create an environment which provides value to student-athletes. That value may be in the form of a scholarship offer, recruiting interest that makes the difference with admissions at a particular school, or coaching that helps a player improve his game down the road. In particular, we prioritize three elements that create this value:

1. An unmatched group of college coaches that represent of great schools from around the country, and throughout the baseball continuum (Pac 10, ACC, Ivy/Patriot, DIII - and everything in between)
2. An efficient format and schedule that provides ballplayers with as many opportunities to showcase themselves as possible during the event
3. An environment that facilitates connections between coaches and players - and minimizes player and parent anxiety about the process

That is our platform - and we work very hard to provide great value for our customers by focusing on these elements. It is certainly the right of every family to determine whether our events provide value for their ballplayer. The feedback we receive from attendees tends to be very positive. Given the costs of travel and attendance at events with fewer coaches and fewer opportunities on the field, we feel that our events can greatly streamline the process and actually save families resources in the long-run.

Regarding the college coaches at our events, our priority is always to provide as much information as possible such that families may make informed decisions. We also err on the side of caution, listing only the coaches whose attendance is confirmed. As a result, there are generally far more coaches at an event than listed on our website. Our California (and to a lesser extent Florida) event(s) will have a smaller list of attendees than the Mid-Atlantic events. However, the coach-player ratio is generally comparable across each event. In California last year, there were approximately 45 coaches and 125 players on site. In Long Island, those numbers were about 100 coaches and 225 players per session.

We’ll now exit the conversation. Thank you all for reading, and for your contributions here which are a great resource for many families navigating the recruiting process. If families have questions or comments for us, please reach out anytime (showcase@headfirstcamps.com or 202.625.1921).

Good luck to all,
The Headfirst Honor Roll Camps Team

quote:

Originally posted by Headfirst Honor Roll Camps:

Regarding the college coaches at our events, our priority is always to provide as much information as possible such that families may make informed decisions. We also err on the side of caution, listing only the coaches whose attendance is confirmed. As a result, there are generally far more coaches at an event than listed on our website. Our California (and to a lesser extent Florida) event(s) will have a smaller list of attendees than the Mid-Atlantic events. However, the coach-player ratio is generally comparable across each event. In California last year, there were approximately 45 coaches and 125 players on site. In Long Island, those numbers were about 100 coaches and 225 players per session.

The Headfirst Honor Roll Camps Team

Most everything posted on this site about Headfirst has probably been 98% positive. Unfortunately, I am not going to be.

Although you would like to depart the conversation, I am going to answer here because I feel your post is a direct response at a post I made in reference to the coaches in attendance at your events.

I am only going off the (67) schools listed on your website, as the schools listed in attendance. I don't doubt your word if you say you had 100 coaches present, but it is beyond me why you only want to list 67 teams (and 77 coaches - several came in pairs from the same team). But I guess that is your prerogative.

Understand, raising prices from $695 to $995 (over 40%) in a 4 year period will cause people to question what is being offered. It will also shut some people out completely. I understand that costs can go up for you folks too, but have you made your product offering better to justify the price increase?

There are other options out there. Just be aware of that. This site and the people on it can help each other. Those of us that have been through this, are only to willing to help.

It is a business decision to raise prices. There can be many reasons to do so including but not limited to business expenses.

From your answer you continue to say you have a great product. No problem there. All I can say is if you look at a company that has a great product, no barriers to entry, but made a huge mistake in pricing think Netflix.

If you have a company that says we have a great product, if you can find a product as good buy it because we will charge what we want. Think Apple.

Somehow I think you are the former.

Bob, I think you're right with your analogy. The trouble is with low entry barriers is the resulting fragmentation of the market caused by new providers. In this fragmenting market, the consumer pays more and gets less exposure. To get the same exposure, the consumer now needs to attend several events; before the market fragmented the consumer (families) went to a single event.

An example are the GPA camps. There, a group of coaches who were mainstays at Headfirst, did what good capitalists do when they smell an excess profit - they opened their own store! The result is that the Ivy's, which used to be present as a bloc at Headfirst for 800$, now are partially present at Headfirst (1000$) and partially present at GPA (for whatever it charges).

There is no single culprit: not Headfirst nor the coaches that decided to sup at the money trough.

The toxic combination of greed (the entire recruiting industry), college admission difficulty (a student needs a hook to get into these high academic schools), and a lack of full understanding of the recruiting process until the player is actually into his collegiate career (tough to understand it until it's over for families), as well as no real alternative to the present system means status quo (except spending more money simply to stand in place) for the parents who follow.

It is not good - but it's the only game in town.

Guys the hands down best value in all of high academic recruiting is the Arizona Fall Classic Academic game. You don't have to actually be participating in the event to attend. I think it is $75. You have to try out to make the team, but the tryouts have all of the coaches there. Virtually every coach at the AZFC attends. Based on their new pricing the Stanford camp is a must if you make it through their lottery.

The Ivy's have their own camps; I think Princeton and Yale are inviting the others, so there are alternatives. There are dwindling coaches at the HF camp and I think someone pointed out about the Netflix parallel here. When you have a company increase it’s pricing 40% in our economy it will open up alternatives. I know PG is doing some more academic events now, and if I had a high academic player I would be looking hard at the alternatives given their price increases.

I think Headfirst is going to regret these changes.

Or they know the trough is about to run dry and want to suck the last dollars out before it does?

One can only hope.

I hope no one takes any of this the wrong way. Guess it’s safe to say that we (PG) are one of the leaders in the exposure area. I feel the need to give a few honest opinions. FWIW, I feel these opinions are shared by a very large number of college coaches and MLB scouts.

I've heard lots of good things about Head First. I've also heard good things about the AZ Fall Classic Academic Game. I know the Stanford Camp is among the very best. I don't know how PG fits on this list of academic type events. The very best source for figuring out what is good are the coaches that attend or follow any certain event (they can’t be everywhere). That is where I get the best information. I’ve talked to coaches that tell me there is no talent and they are only at a certain event because they get paid to be there. I’ve talked to coaches who tell me such and such event was outstanding, i.e. Stanford Camp. I’ve not heard anything very negative about any of the events mentioned here.

I think a lot is determined by the level of the colleges that utilize these events. PG, for example, is not geared towards DIII colleges, even though many DIIIs do attend events and subscribe to the scouting service. That said, at last count, over 70% of all players on Ivy League rosters attended PG events. There are several Ivy League colleges and other highly recognized academic schools that attend many PG events and not just the Academic events.

There are colleges looking for great students whether they can play or not. There are colleges looking for great students who can play and there are colleges looking for the very best players who are also great students.

All exposure events that draw the serious baseball programs have one thing in common... Lots of talent! If there are 200 players at an event that are all great academically, but most of them lack talent, it's great for some colleges, not so good for others. Better for the bigger, higher level, colleges is to attend the same events that all the top programs attend. That's because they are looking for the top players that fit their academic requirements. It's not like the top students only attend academic events. Many of the very best students never attend an academic event. In our case, we want the best player’s period at most events. The college coaches can look at the academic info and decide who to glue in on. We want valedictorians and great students, but only if they can play. We are in the baseball business, first and foremost.

There is much more involved than just the actual event. In our case, what happens after the event is just as important as the event itself. Only a few select events draw hundreds of recruiters and scouts. Some events draw a small number of recruiters and scouts. So the next most important thing is how many recruiters and scouts can get important information that might interest them in players at an event. Then even more important is how many recruiters and scouts actually utilize any of this service and the information. It’s not good enough to produce the information if nobody looks at it.

I'm not trying to sell anything. Only trying to explain how it really works and (in this case) why there are different costs involved sometimes. At most events, as soon as it ends, the job is over, everything’s done.

Regarding Head First, I've never attended one of their events. I'd actually like to some day. Most everything I've heard about Head First has been very good. Seems like a high class organization with integrity. It appears that they have greatly helped many young players. No one is capable of helping all young players. Only they know why they price things a certain way. I'm only saying that sometimes it's out of necessity if someone is trying to provide the best possible service. No one can force a person to pay for any service. Rather than think the worse about the price increase by a proven organization, why not consider that maybe it’s as simple as they “need” to increase the price to keep providing the very best possible service.

All of these are great posts but it appears the underlying issue or elephant in the room is the expense of playing baseball for those families who have son's who are chasing their dreams to play college baseball. I state college ball because I know that if my son had not had any desire to play beyond high school I would not have devoted the resources that we did for him to chase his dream.
The fact of the matter as much as I hate to admit, we as parents will probably do whatever possible within reason (budget, time) to help our kids chase their dreams.

The issue that I have always struggled with is how many good ball players get taken out of the game at an early age because of financial issues. Some of these young ball players may have had the talent to really shine but with the ever increasing costs they are being left behind. You would be surprised at the amount of young ball players in places where I have lived who have been get hitting and pitching lessons since they were very little which cost money but ultimately give these kids an early advantage. I don't begudge the parents' who have the money to pay for this stuff because just like me they are doing whatever they can do money wise to help their kids. I used to tell my sons all the time that it is not always the best ball players you see and play against but sometimes they are the most blessed in that their parents' have the resources(time and money) to allow them to compete and continue to grow as a player. I don't have an answer for this dilemma but I really hope that baseball which is "America's Game" does not go the way of tennis, golf and maybe gymnastics.

golden rule,

I think I can say this... Our main job is to find kids that have talent. We have hundreds of people (associates) around the country that report talent to us. In fact, we have over 50 staff members that work daily (year around) trying to find kids that have the most talent.

We realized a long time ago that all kids could not afford what we do. We have always tried hard to find these kids and give them opportunities whenever possible. The problem involves NCAA rules. We have to jump through a lot of hoops in order to help some kid that does not have the financial resources available to other kids. If we don't do this correctly the same kid we try to help is likely to get punished by the NCAA. I could go into more detail, but believe me it is difficult to help those who lack funds.

Then a while back we figured out an additional way to help these less fortunate kids. We started running tournaments that included the very best teams in the country. We built relationships with the top teams. Then when we would know about a talented player we could work with these teams to give the kid national type exposure. It helped the team, it helped us and more importantly it helped the kid without breaking any rules. Believe me, many of the top players in the WWBA Championship in Jupiter every year (the #1 scouted event in all of baseball) are picked up by teams that fund everything. The same thing happens at other WWBA and BCS tournaments. Lots of kids playing in big scouting events who couldn't afford to be there on their own.

So, there is help available for those with outstanding talent. We just have to find those kids in order to help them. Now what is unfair is the lack of resources available to these kids at a young age, instruction, equipment, etc. It is a big problem, we try to help whenever possible, but there's no way of identifying all those kids. And to be honest our entire business revolves around those that are the most talented. Many of those have gone without lots of professional instruction or expensive equipment.

All that said, the poor kids don't have all the advantages of more fortunate kids. It's not just baseball, it's a much bigger problem than just baseball. It will take more than baseball people to solve that one.

quote:

Originally posted by golden rule:
I don't have an answer for this dilemma but I really hope that baseball which is "America's Game" does not go the way of tennis, golf and maybe gymnastics.

I couldn't agree more. This is what I see happening as well.

quote:

All that said, the poor kids don't have all the advantages of more fortunate kids. It's not just baseball, it's a much bigger problem than just baseball. It will take more than baseball people to solve that one.

I could not agree more.

We like to think we live in a meritocracy, but merit has unfair advantages in every stage.

Where we are born, who our parents are, what mom ate when she was pregnant, how many books they read to us as tots, what level of education they had, all are the strongest predictors of getting good grades, growing up healthy, scoring well on the SAT, and succeeding in college/ career / life.

Having the family time, resources and priorities to pay for (batting lesson, violin lessons, private tutors, whatever) is inherently unfair.

But what is the alternative? Should we start an "Occupy showcases?" movement? (JUST KIDDING in case anyone takes that comment seriously).

PGStaff, your post was very informative, thank you. And thanks for all that the organization does for those without the resources. And Headfirst, the info and perspective you share helps us make informed decisions.

I think this is a very good discussion, and very timely for those of us with juniors!

To PG, appreciate your response I hope you understand that my post was not directed to what you do, it was to the state of youth sports, more specifically baseball. No direspect to PG but in all honesty a player would never have to attend a PG event to receive exposure or get a scholarship, it happens all the time.
I am thankful for PG because my son who recently signed his NLI to attend a D1 school in Texas was spotted at a PG Showcase by the coach that eventually gave him a scholarship. So I defintely appreciate what you do, because with our limited baseball dollars we decided to go the PG route; and defintely received the value of your services.

My post was directed to the cost of playing on travel teams which include hotels, gas, food and most importantly the organization fee. In addition, for those individuals who can't teach their own kids, the cost of hitting and pitching coaches among other things.

The bottom line is that in life inequities exist, I just don't know if I will ever be able to accept it but being a realist I do acknowledge it. To PG thanks for what you do to address this issue, it gives me hope.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
Rather than think the worse about the price increase by a proven organization, why not consider that maybe it’s as simple as they “need” to increase the price to keep providing the very best possible service.

I was pretty much with you, PG, on most of your post but when I got to this line I had to swallow hard. Let's not be that naive. Yes that COULD be a driver, and should be a driver, of a price increase, but to think that other more nefarious drivers don't exist would be the epitome of naivete. (big word day, sorry.)

PG offers much more bang for its buck because of the reasons you cite, you do conduct some surface level screening for some of your events, and you do offer an on line reference point giving players and coaches alike an independent read.

Others do not and are proud to spout that they do not. So with the primary cost being facilitators and marketing people it becomes obvious that a large dollar increase is more related to 'what the market will bear' than it is to possible cost increases.

I have offered to provide some assistance if a coach I know finds a player who can't afford to pay for a certain event. I am sure others have done the same.

I'm not aware of a way to provide this support otherwise - maybe it is there. I don't know if PG or Demarini or HF provides that opportunity. Maybe Jerry can give his view, and I can certainly ask the HF guys. I know colleges can't cut the fee to attend a camp, but can the other organizations putting on the events provide some discounted opportunities?

We work closely with the NCAA. We even have a former compliance officer on our staff. Most rules are made for football and basketball, but unfortunately they also pertain to baseball. Example, we started BaseballWebTV a video product that was used by thousands of college coaches, scouts, etc. It really helped young players and those that follow them. Because of football/basketball the NCAA made a rule regarding any video service. Colleges could no longer subscribe to our service. So we made it free to all college coaches. Then we were told they couldn’t view it even if it were free, unless it was free to everyone. Our choice was to close up or turn it into a free service for everyone. As one might guess, that requires advertising/sponsorship to finance the project. That is something we do not have for BBWTV. We decided to not only keep the service going but actually make it better. Very costly and without any way to break even, let alone profit. Only reason I bring this up is to give an idea about the power of the NCAA.

Bottom line… It is very difficult to help deserving young players without breaking the rules. Their idea is to protect the young athletes, That’s easy to understand, but that does not do anything but hurt the young athlete that is living in poverty. In most cases, if he gets help, he’s cheating, they will decide on the punishment! Just not right, it shouldn't be so cut and dry IMO!

I think I am still being charged for membership on their site.