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New thread to replace the "disappointing" one.

 

So here's my question ... if my kid focuses on high academic D3 (or maybe Patriot League) and I am only willing and able  to pay for one Headfirst camp (and maybe Stanford too)  is he better off doing it as a rising Junior or Senior?

 

Edit to say: oh, looks like a moderator renamed the original thread.

Last edited by JCG
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I would say do it as a rising senior.  Very few kids get serious looks as rising juniors unless they are the best of the best.  Now if your son has some top of the line numbers (say 85+ from the mound) then you're probably ok doing it before his junior year.  If he isn't a "standout" type of kid....then put it off til the following year.

Very, very good question.  I am not expert, but I would bet that if you ask the coaches that attend, they would say as a rising senior because that is their focus at that time and is more "actionable" from their perspective.  But, my personal view is that if you only go once, you should go as a rising junior, get on the radar, see who shows interest and initiate dialogue, visit campuses and attend prospect camps of those that seem to be the best fit.  Personally, I just wouldn't want a coach to see me for the first time that late in the process.  Just my opinion.

 

One quick story as evidence (and it depends what schools you are really targeting):  took my son to Stanford Camp this August.  Not sure, but I believe it was 75% (that is a guess) or so rising seniors.  When the camp was over, after the last game, the HC (from a D1, High Academic) of my son's team told the rising seniors that they were all but done with 2015s; he then pulled the 2016s aside and said "for you guys, it is different....keep in touch, come to our camp".

I guess I wasn't considering the dates.  If your son is a rising senior, then yes, fall before he starts school is likely too late.  If you're thinking of attending showcases/camps in the summer before his senior year, you'll be fine....but if you're only considering camps that are in the fall, I agree you'd be better off doing them before his junior year.  If it's me, I'd wait until the summer before his senior year....and hit a couple top level showcases...or even better, get on a top level team that will get him in front of coaches multiple times in June & July. 

I'd say as a rising Junior.  Here's why:

 

1.  Going as a rising Junior your player will hopefully make contact with coaches at schools he is interested in and discover some schools he has never considered.  Easy to walk away with 5-8 quality interactions with schools over the two day period.  May get lucky and have some schools your player wasn't considering or had never even heard of APPROACH HIM.  Additionally, he may not get a good "vibe" from a HC or AC from a school on his list and may re-think his "top schools" list? 

 

2. Now, as a rising Junior, his list is no longer schools: A, B, C, D, E, and F.  But schools G, B, C, M, X, and D.  Now you have all Junior year to visit those schools, check out a game later that spring and get a good feel for not only their school but their baseball program.  Won't be able to do that if you go as a rising Senior?

 

I agree, these coaches from the "high academic" schools, especially Ivies, are hyper focused on the rising senior class, mostly.  I do know however some very sought after Ivy recruits verbal in early summer of their rising Senior year.  If you've got the grades and the skills,  that 6th semester report card (aka 2nd semester grades Jr. year) is only a formality. But admissions offices still want to see that you finished Jr year strong. 

 

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say, if you get attention from an academic school in summer of your rising Jr. year, then begin dialogue with the program during your Jr. year, hit the scores they are looking for during Jr. year on SATs and GPA, catch some of their games that spring of your Jr. year, finish Jr. year strong with a 6th Honor Roll report card, I believe some handshakes can be made that June of your rising Senior year.  I am not speaking from experience here, just from my "intelligence gathering."  This is an avenue I believe is possible. 

 

So, to conclude, if I could send my kid once?  I'd err on the side of "more time" by sending him summer of rising Jr. year.  I can't imagine any savvy coach won't take the time to "file" a rising prospect to pursue in the fall.  In lieu of spending the $ then on HF summer of rising Sr. year you then can spend $250 and go to the camp of the school you are really interested in.  Often a committal will be taken at conclusion of the camp on the campus of the school you want to go to. 

 

If you do HF as a rising Senior, it's already mid-August of senior year, with no time to visit new schools you just connected with at the HF event in early August.  And no time to visit the school in spring to see the baseball team in action.

 

If I had to choose?  Do it summer of rising Junior year.  Because yes, it is expensive. 

Unless you are a stud, I would go for the rising senior year.  Head First is primarily a D3 recruiting event.  In my son's case, it was where he went when the D1 academic opportunities did not pan out.  If you are a stud, you will get on academic radars as an underclassman there and that is great.  If you are not a stud, you will introduce yourself to D1 coaches, they will be polite, but they will not really pay attention to you.

 

However, as a rising senior, D3's are interested in filling their stable at the event and are very aggressive.

 

 

Interesting.... and thanks.

 

My son is a 2017 who just started his sophomore year.  We're in CA, so that means that his camp would be in June,  so that might alter the equation a bit.  My concern with doing it as a rising Jr. is that I really don't know - and I don't think he knows either - if he wants to play ball in college.  What he really wants this year is to earn a starting role on his Varsity baseball and basketball teams and make an impact if/when he does.   I think he understands that it's time to look beyond that academically, but he's not thinking beyond that athletically, and I think that's fine. But Junior year does make sense, since we plan on sending him to a fairly long academic camp when he's a senior.  We just may not know if he wants to go until very close to the date of the camp.

 

HVDad -- no, not a stud.  Just a solid player and a very good student.

Last edited by JCG
Originally Posted by BucsFan:

Call me crazy...but, given that you were posting on this site, I went out on a limb and assumed your son was 100% committed to playing baseball in college.   That did play into my advice.  No worries, though, as it sounds like he is very well rounded athletically and academically.  Good luck.

BucsFan, I have been very, very committed to my both of my kids' athletic pursuits from youth through HS, and I'll stay committed as long as they play.  My wife and I plan to semi-retire when our 2017 goes to college, so if he plays, I would seriously buy an RV and follow his team around.  But I'm trying not to push him that way. In fact, I'm doing the opposite -- I'm telling him just how hard it's going to be if he does, and making sure he knows what the sacrifices and risks are, and making sure he understands that when he goes to school it's got to be about school.  IOW, even though I'd love to see him play and I'm willing to send him to Head First and Stanford, I'm deliberately becoming an obstacle.  He's got to convince me.

Last edited by JCG

HVbaseballDad and IEBSBL  make great points.  At Headfirst, I'd say the D-3s are definitely looking at the rising Seniors almost exclusively.  True, not worth their time to invest in a rising Jr as they may not be available to them when the time comes.  Headfirst Staff made the following #s public when my son and I were there earlier this month.  Of the 244 boys there in session #4, 65% were rising Seniors, 33% rising Juniors, 2% rising Sophomores.

 

I will attempt to boil this down simply:

 

A.  If your kid is a stud in classroom and on field, especially on mound, GO EARLY AND GO OFTEN (if you can afford it).  Definitely go summer of rising Jr. year and you will most likely get attention from the academic D-1s that should prove beneficial.

 

B.  If your player knows D-3 is most likely their best fit?  Then go summer of rising Senior year.  I agree with the aforementioned posters, that the D-3s are very much "in the moment."  They are looking for rising Seniors to fill their roster NOW, they are not there to waste time on prospects that will not be playing D-3.

 

Lastly, if one goes to a Headfirst type event with some 95+ coaches present AND IT IS AUGUST OF YOUR RISING SENIOR YEAR, AND YOU ARE FORKING OUT $995 TO ATTEND?  THEN "SONNY-BOY" BETTER HAVE DONE SOME HOMEWORK ON WHAT SCHOOLS HE IS DEFINITELY INTERESTED IN.  Because let's face it. for us easterners the Long Island event is first week of August, many schools start as early as August 15th here in Southeast, and if you are a northeasterner you may start after Labor Day.  That's not a whole lot of time to investigate and visit a new school Sonny-Boy just discovered at the showcase and apply etc. 

 

But hey, you do what you have to do....

 

Last edited by #1 Assistant Coach

My 2016 son just attended the Long Island camp.  We, too, deliberated on whether to send him as a rising junior or a rising senior and we decided on rising junior for all of the reasons mentioned above (it gives him an opportunity to get on the radar of coaches; August before senior year seems too late, etc).  He is a pitcher, although I am not sure that I would call him a "stud." He pitched 86 mph, but he is rather short for a pitcher (maybe 5' 10").  A few coaches approached him at the camp and he has received some emails (mostly from D3 coaches, but a couple from D1 coaches) since the camp.  Some of the D3 coaches said in their emails that they weren't really looking at 2016's, but they noticed him and want him to keep in touch.  The D1 coaches wanted him to attend their camps.  He is very interested in pitching for an Ivy League school and he contacted those coaches before the camp and during the camp. One of those Ivy coaches told him at the camp that he (the coach) was focused on 2015's and wasn't looking at 2016's.  I think the proof will be what happens after September 1 - whether any of the D1 coaches contact him and whether other D3 coaches contact him.       

Originally Posted by JCG:

New thread to replace the "disappointing" one.

 

So here's my question ... if my kid focuses on high academic D3 (or maybe Patriot League) and I am only willing and able  to pay for one Headfirst camp (and maybe Stanford too)  is he better off doing it as a rising Junior or Senior?

 

 

High academic D3s are in the wheelhouse of HeadFirst.  Coaches are in the market for rising seniors at that point in time.  It is a small window of opportunity, and both sides (recruiter/recruitee) need to move quickly and have their ducks in a row to move forward for academic consideration, Pre-Admissions review, and financial consideration.. 

 

I understand the "setting the table strategy" for a rising junior/rising sophomore but I think that is not the right strategy for these D3 schools.  What good is spending $1000 if the coaches can't take any action.   The "setting the table strategy" is more a strategy I would use for more traditional D1s/D2s based on my experience.  We went through this process on both sides of the D1/D3 fence.  We planned HeadFirst as our insurance policy or backup strategy and it paid off well.   Again, not a typical strategy but these are the things you do when your son is an engineering major. 

 

My son did not attend Stanford camp, but my understanding is it is a little more complete with Ivys, Patriot, national academic D3s, and others.

 

JMO

As the flip side to Fenway and in response to #1 Assistant Coach - My son went to HF as a rising senior.  For a few weeks leading up to HF we were working out final details with an Ivy (that is- whether to be an ED with support or shoot for the Likely Letter - the pre-read had come back very positive).  In Sons mind he was committed to the Ivy.

 

 Son went to HF anyway as we had already paid and he wanted to talk to some Patriot League schools just in case something fell through.  While at HF he met many D3 coaches, from schools he had never considered, and in some cases, never heard of.  After overnight visits to some of these schools he picked D3 over D1.  In the end he had an amazing college baseball experience and great success at an institution that he will argue is better, and certainly more rigorous than the Ivy he didn't go to. My point is that things change quickly in this business, and your kid is more mature than you might think. 

 

Remember, D3 money is better than athletic money in that it is a result of admission (which the coach helps you secure) and not tied specifically to baseball, making it "guaranteed" for all 4 years.

My 2015 attended the August headfirst event and it far exceeded expectations.  This was his first ever camp/showcase as he is a very young 2015 and the typical late bloomer.  I decided on headfirst because of his grades and the fact he is unknown and there would be plenty of D3 coaches looking for recruits.  He is a very tall RHP that sat 84/86mph during his first game.  As we walked into the park on day two, there were two schools waiting for him and both offering roster spots and "selling" their respective schools.  To date he has received phone calls or emails from 25 of the schools in attending HF.   He visited one of the first schools to approach him at HF and the coaching staff is aggressively pursing him.  He is now going through the process of determining schools to focus on.

 

The advice I am providing is go where your wanted....  He already knows how a school/coach that wants him approaches the process.  

A option to consider is to attend the Jupiter, FL Headfirst camp November of junior year. This gives the player exposure to lots of coaches and a good perspective on where they fit based upon interest and contact after the camp.  Our son attended this camp and it really helped solidify his plans for the summer after Junior year.  Our experience was that by November most coaches were focused on filling some spots with seniors and spent a lot of time evaluating the juniors.  Most coaches where interested in looking for juniors to track in spring/summer.  Go luck to all.

My 2012 did both Jupiter as a Junior and Long Island before Senior Year. 

 

Events were similarly structured.  But they had a very different feel given the time of year, # of players attending, # of coaches attending, etc.  A lot more coaches and players on Long Island.  Most D1 roster spots were known at Jupiter for Seniors, so it was far more of the D3s getting a final look at Seniors.  D1s seemed to be getting a first look at the Juniors.  At Long Island, we felt that all the schools were highly engaged with the rising Seniors.

 

Attending in Junior year at Jupiter got my son some exposure, some comfort interacting with college coaches, familiarity with the showcase format, and a good sense of where he fit relative to his peers.  Coach contacts he made in Jupiter invited him to two winter camps where he expanded his relationships and did a couple unofficial visits.  They also followed my son's Junior year.  By the time HF Long Island rolled around, my son's list of schools was pretty solid with schools that had real interest and were fits academically and athletically.

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