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Help needed

M MoDad10+ posts
My college freshman son is currently having serious elbow pain. His arm is frequently numb - during practice, while studying, even some during sleep. He has had recurrent elbow problems since he was 14. He has been to a couple of orthopedics here at home over the past four years. He was diagnosed with possible ulnar nerve entrapment. He was given physical therapy to perform (as well as shut down a few times), as well as having the therapist work with his throwing mechanics. We always tried to avoid the "knife", now I'm starting to wonder if that was the best path (even though the orthopedic never prescribed surgery at that point). He is a catcher and outfielder, although the catching throws seemed to always cause the elbow pain. The orthopedic advised my son not to catch any more or he would risk doing permanent damage to the ulnar nerve. Well, my son did quit catching for the most part, until this year at college. The college team's backup catcher tore his labrum and is out for the year, so they asked my son to move from OF to catcher to fill the void. My son informed the coaches of his previous elbow problems (as he had done during his recruitment), but also offered to catch if they would work with his mechanics. According to my son, there has been little work on mechanics and his arm is now "toast". He has talked to the coach, who tells him to see the trainer. The trainer is the trainer for several sports, so possibly not too super baseball savvy. The trainer had my son wear a compression sleeve to alleviate the pain - that just puts more pressure on the nerve, not a good thing for nerve entrapment. My son deperately wants to see a specialist and has mentioned that to trainer (and possibly coach), but that does not seem to be a priortity at this time. I advised my son to 1) attend all treatment sessions 2) repectfully, but directly, inform the trainer of his past arm history, that he knew his arm and that he could not throw anymore and 3) if the trainer would not shut him down and setup appointment with a specialist, then talk to the Head Coach, and possibly top assistant, and inform them of that which he told the trainer. Is that good advice in this case or would you suggest something else or more? Thanks for your consideration.
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D DG100+ posts
Since I don't have any experience at the college level I can't give you any advice in that area. Since your sons already gone to the doctor I will only say that he should again get looked at to make sure he's not dealing with any new problems. My son did have a strained UCL numerous times from about 12 to 14 years old. Doctors were good at diagnosing the medical conditon and treating it. However, I had to figure out the mechanical throwing flaw on my own to permanently fix the problem. My son had a break on every ball thrown hard. The problem my son had is that he rotated his arm at the elbow on every throw as if he was throwing a slider. He didn't even realize it. The way you figure out if your son is doing it is put a black piece of electrical tape around a baseball in a line. Hold the ball with the tape lined up with the fingers and throw it from about 60' distance. If he throws properly he should be ablee to throw the ball with a clearly defined line fairly easily. My son couldnt do it, most other kids could do it easily. It took a few weeks before he could do it and he used the line ball at the beginning of all warm ups to remind him of proper throwing mechanics. He hasn't had elbow problems (knock on wood) in two years and he is a pitcher. Give it a try, who knows it my work, it worked for me.
ND Novice Dad100+ posts
For what it is worth I would call the coach and/or trainer myself ASAP. Not sure which one first but I would want to get their opinion on what the treatment and diagnosis is and than I would ask the trainer (1)if he has consulted with the team Dr. (2)and what day this week my Son will be seen by the Dr. and or specialist and for the Dr's phone #. (I am editing my remarks I just reread your post...and you state that his arm is frequently numb) Call the trainer and have him get to the DR. TODAY!!!
On a side note if your SOn has had this issue in the past I don't know if a Coach "adjusting" his mechanics is going to help...or if the Coach knows how to adjust. Helping the team team is one thing but if the Coach or trainer are putting your Son's health at risk its a big issue. Also if he has arm problems remember hes throwing as much as the pitchers (probably more with bullpens)...he may want to stick with outfield.
Last edited by Novice Dad
P PGStaff10,000+ posts
Often with ulner nerve problems, the fingers will have pain, go numb or tingle. You do need to get him to a specialist ASAP. When there is pain, it’s not the time to change mechanics, pain can cause mechanical problems all by itself. It’s time to quit throwing and see the doctor. Nearly everyone on here will tell you the same thing. Ulner nerve problems are fairly common in pitchers, but I’ve never heard of the problem going away if a player continues to throw.
luvbbluvbb1,000+ posts
quote:
My son deperately wants to see a specialist and has mentioned that to trainer (and possibly coach), but that does not seem to be a priortity at this time.


I'm guessing from the above statement that your son has not talked to the coach about this???? If not, then he SHOULD! Not sure what size college your son plays at, but don't they have a doctor on staff to help evaluate and do diagnostic testing? Having a son who's a college catcher and been thru TJ surgery....I would highly recommend that your son go directly to the coach since the trainer really hasn't done much for him. Since it sounds like your son hasn't talked to the coach yet about this, IMO I would keep the ball in your son's court and let him handle it. IF he talks to the coach and STILL doesn't get any satisfaction THEN I'd be on the phone. If I'm reading the above quote correctly, it sounds to me like the coach really isn't in the loop as to what is going on. He probably assumes the trainer has the situation under control Give the coach a chance first, he needs to know that your son isn't getting any better thru the trainer. If I've misread, and the coach DOES know the extent of the problem and still isn't doing anything...then I'd step in and get your son to a specialist ASAP. Good luck!
Last edited by luvbb
T thepainguy1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by MoDad:
My college freshman son is currently having serious elbow pain.


First, your son needs to see a specialist IMMEDIATELY. Numbness and pain at rest is a VERY troubling sign.

Second, if he were my son I would shut him down immediately.

Third, playing catcher can be just as hard, if not harder, on the arm as pitching due to the fact that you have to release the ball as quickly as possible and don't always have time to throw with good mechanics.

At a minimum, I would recommend that you son stop catching until his arm problems are resolved. Move him to the OF or better yet 1B.
B BobbleheadDoll5,000+ posts
PG is correct. Numbness and pain is usual with Ulnar problems. Depending on how severe it is determines the layoff period if any. You have to get to a specialist. PG is correct that ulnar problems will affect your delivrey (mechanics). This could be part of the labrum ussue.
My son had a mildly stressed Ulnar and mentally he adjusted his throw. He had mild numnbness in his fingers. He said his elbow felt stiff but no pain. His performance dropped off the table. He continued to pitch for a few games and was getting beayup. I made him see his doctor and he told him to take it easy for a week or so. He did that and he was back to normal because he knew there was no danger of arm problems. It is amazing how you compensate for your arm not feeling 100%. That happened about 3 years ago and never recurred. See a specialist asap. Your situation sounds severe and you can do permanent damage as a catcher friend of mine did. He continued to throw and had surgery which did not work. He lost his JC spot.
Last edited by BobbleheadDoll
M MoDad10+ posts
Thanks everyone for sharing your advice, experience and concern. Here's a quick update for those that asked, but I only received it second hand from my wife (so I don't have all of the details yet). My son is to see the campus doctor tomorrow; although the doctor is not a specialist as he and I had hoped, it appears that it is the program's protocol to see the trainer, then the campus doctor and then Dr. Andrews team in Birmingham if warranted. He has also been shut down from throwing. I don't yet know if he discussed this directly with the coaches or just with the trainer; however, I never contacted the coaches, even though I was prepared to do so and tempted to as well. I just thought it best to allow my son to handle this with the coaching staff and trainer. I think it will help to foster more respectful relationships between all parties, in addition to allowing some personal growth in my son. I plan to report back after Friday's visit with the doctor.
L lafmom5,000+ posts
quote:
He has also been shut down from throwing. I don't yet know if he discussed this directly with the coaches or just with the trainer; however, I never contacted the coaches, even though I was prepared to do so and tempted to as well. I just thought it best to allow my son to handle this with the coaching staff and trainer.

Great news! I think it's best too for son to handle if the coach and staff demonstrate proper care and concern. If that stops, then it's completely appropriate for you to contact them. Keep us posted and best wishes.
Last edited by lafmom
CM Coach May1,000+ posts
Call your son. Tell him to go to the coach and tell the coach that he needs to see a specialist right now and he is done untill he does. I would not allow my kid to throw one more baseball. The coach either is not aware of how much pain your son is in or does not care. Either way its time to step in and shut him down (period)! Get him to a specialist right away and get to the bottom of the issue.
M mmac100+ posts
See a doctor immediately, get an xray, an MRI, whatever is needed. Do not rely on college trainers, coaches etc. Talk to the coach yourself if need be. My son hurt his ankle at college and the trainer kept telling him not to complain, it was just a strain. He took himself to the hospital to have an xray, which showed nothing. When he came home, about 6 weeks later, we took him to have an MRI and it turned out to be broken. Took a while to heal. Treat these things seriously.
M MoDad10+ posts
What was I thinking? Just that I didn't want to make a hasty decision and jeopardize my son's relationship/future with his coaches. I am very concerned about his health, but I also need to show the coaches/trainer some trust in this matter. I am glad that I didn't rush in and call either the coach or the trainer. I was not present while my son originally discussed his pain with the trainer and coaches; therefore, he very well may not have been as direct in his assessment of the injury as he should have been. Since I originally started this thread, my son, per the trainer's direction, visited the school's doctor, who has referred him to a specialist. The trainer has also requested medical records from our son's orthopedic here at home. The trainer also completely shut down my son from any throwing. So it looks like everything is working out as I had wished (albeit somewhat slowly) without my son having to be disappointed in and embarassed by his dad for interferring.
P PGStaff10,000+ posts
MoDad,

I understand your situation completely.

If something like this happens and you're really worried about it.

The one thing that parents can do without butting into the coach-player-trainer relationship and embarrassing your son is... Find some time to get him checked out or even have an MRI on your own. You don't need anyone's permission to have your son go see a doctor/specialist.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
It's important for players to be honest in their descriptions of where the pain is and when they have it.
Most of the time there is a protocol to follow at school when a player is hurt. Last year son pulled a muscle, went to the doctor asap and was told he needed to be on anti inflamatory meds first with PT before an MRI. This was explained to me from coach, as I made a phone call right away when I found out (he didn't tell us for a week). Though everyone was concerned (and son hysterical), I am glad of the followed protocol.
A parent should never hesitate to make a call when a player is hurt, but sometimes they have to figure it out for themselves before we step in. I don't think coaches or trainers mind at all.

JMO.
FutureBack.MomFutureBack.Mom1,000+ posts
TPM ...
quote:
A parent should never hesitate to make a call when a player is hurt, but sometimes they have to figure it out for themselves before we step in. I don't think coaches or trainers mind at all.


Agree 100%.

Altho I realize some of our posters might think this should be entirely a coach/player situation, I believe that parental involvement with injury situations is paramount to an effective plan for the player's return to health. The coaches AJ had at UCR were aware of their players' injuries and THEY involved the parents as soon as need be. The only players who slipped through the proverbial crack were the ones who were not honest with the coaching staff and trainers about any pain they are feeling. (Some are concerned about being ridiculed because they can't 'play thru the pain' but that should not be their major concern ... if they want to continue playing at all, they need to NOT play through the pain.)

JMHO for what it is worth ...
M MoDad10+ posts
Thanks for sharing your experiences and advice. My son finally was seen by the team orthopedic doctor yesterday. The news was not as good as we had hoped, but at least we are somewhat relieved to now have a plan of action. My son has to have Tommy John surgery. He has struggled off an on with elbow pain for several years, but no doctor ever prescribed surgery up until now. Oddly enough, my son wanted surgery since his many physical therapy attempts/shutdowns only seemed to bring temporary relief; so the upcoming surgery is looked upon as the beginning steps to elbow health. I've read that pitchers may require 12-16 months to return to action - how long would a position player need to return to the field?
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
Talking to the coaches about injury may be even more important at the HS level. We've got coaches who are very concerned about preventing arm injuries but some of the kids just won't admit that their arms or knees are hurting and they end up seriously injured as a result.

MoDad,
Should take a little less time than for a pitcher. The pitchers typically get up to full strength before they can be fully effective pitching because of something called periopreception (sp?). Essentially the tendon that has replaced the ligament has to learn to feel what is going on in the arm and transmit that to the brain to allow for fine control. That control may not be quite as important for a catcher as for a pitcher.

I think some of the newer procedures where they suture the ligament onto the tendon graft are designed to help with that issue.

Best of luck with the surgery and the rehab.
Last edited by CADad
D deldad500+ posts
Sorry to hear about your news, my thoughts and prayers are with you. Chris Nelson, draft 04, had TJ in October of his senior year and played that spring. I think one of his parents use to be on this board, but I do not recall their screen name. Mine was back on the mound at his 1 year anniversary. Position players should be able to progress a little quicker, I know the rehab protocol is changing every day. Pass along my best wishes to your son.

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