Help on how to handle a situation

@BB and BB posted:

My question is, going into his junior year, how should I handle the situation.  Should I talk to the coach?  Should I advise my son to talk to the coach? Should I just let the bull crap politics play out?  He wants to play CF and is better with a much higher ceiling.

Thoughts?

Other than your kid not getting what he "wants" , what impact is the coach's decision having on his life. He's still playing, just not where he would like.

If he really has the skills to succeed at CF at the next level those coaches will figure it out.

You as a parent should 100% stay out of it. If your kid feels really strongly about it then he can talk to his coach.

And if he becomes a D-1 CF you can have the last laugh.

I've always been told that they don't recruit right fielders. 

Count your blessings. As mentioned before, at least he has a spot on the field. We have a potential draft prospect locked down in CF. A top player is transferring in. My son would be a starter on any other team in the state, but he may not get playing time on his HS team until his senior year due to the high skill level of the other players and politics. So we just tell him to keep working hard and continue to get better. We tell him he needs to be so good it would make the coach look like an idiot to bench him. He gets playing time with his club team and he performs well for them (they face tougher competition than HS). As far as I'm concerned...he's learning patience, how to fight for playing time, and that life isn't always fair from his HS team.

I was told by a P5 coach just recently there is an appropriate time to talk with a coach about playing time/position. He recommended our son reach out to his coach now, before the season, to discuss his goals and aspirations for the upcoming season.

FWIW, my son’s team will have 5 D1 committed OF’s in the spring. 2 will sit or DH, 1 will play RF, 1 will play LF. If your son is that good he will be recruited.

Go over the coach’s head to the AD and the school board. They will take care of the problem.

Now back to reality land…. Unless a kid is a top shelf pro prospect projected to go high in the draft chances are he’s not going to be scouted at high school games. He’s going to scouted at travel tournaments and showcases. He’s going to be presold to college coaches by an advocate. Advocates are typically travel coaches or private instructors with credibility and college contacts.

When I see these posts I wonder if they’re real or a spoof. Parents of potential D1 players typically know how recruiting works and their kids have been recruited to the travel teams who will get them to college ball.

College coaches recruit metrics. If a kid hits, has the right exit velocity, sixty time and game instincts  it doesn’t matter what position he’s playing in travel ball. It would be fortunate if a college coach shows up for a high school game. They’re busy coaching their college team in the spring.

Thanks for the reply posts.  He has played in front of D-1 college scouts this summer and played well.  I guess the worst part is the politics.  The whole team knows what is going on and so do a lot of the parents.

And by the way, he plays CF for a very good club program that would beat his HS team 7-8 times out of 10. 

BB;

why is it important to you. You have already placed your son in D-1. Has he received a athletic scholarship?

Why not organize the parents to make a donation similar to the Dad of the CF.  Who are the College scouts? Is your son a Lefty hitter? What is his running speed? Does he play football?

Bob

The old HS baseball politics because of course the coach doesn't place winning above relationships with parents.  Who are you to say your son has a higher ceiling?  Obviously the other 2024 has some ability or he wouldn't pitch as well as play the OF.  There was competition for the position you just weren't made aware of it.  It seems the coach believed he needed to pull the other OF up from JV and put him in CF and move your son to RF to make the team better.  I have seen coaches do this thing where they feel like in order to make the team better they put players in positions their parents don't necessarily agree with.  I can speak from experience that getting involved and complaining to the coach won't help your son at all.  When my son was moved up to the varsity as a freshman OF I felt he was a better athlete than the SR CF and it would be better for his future  to play CF.  I went to the coach and asked him why he did not see the same things I did?  As he should have, the coach told me to go away and never come back....  Word got to the SR CF's mother what I had done....My wife made me sleep on the sofa the rest of baseball season and my older son still barely speaks to me....

He does not play football.  He runs sub 6.8.  Is a RH hitter.  Xavier and Michigan (that I know of) have seen him hit good pitching at scout tournaments and events this summer.  I have not placed my son in D1.  I just know he has the ability.  And I expect him to be offered next summer.  It is important to me because he is my son and I love him and want what is best for him. 

@RJM posted:

Parents of potential D1 players typically know how recruiting works and their kids have been recruited to the travel teams who will get them to college ball.

This is not always true, especially before junior year.  Many travel coaches assume parents know this and therefore don't explain it.

@RJM posted:

Now back to reality land…. Unless a kid is a top shelf pro prospect projected to go high in the draft chances are he’s not going to be scouted at high school games. He’s going to scouted at travel tournaments and showcases. He’s going to be presold to college coaches by an advocate. Advocates are typically travel coaches or private instructors with credibility and college contacts.

This is completely true.  If your son is likely to be offered next summer, you should have a conversation, NOW, with the club coach or organization head (whoever handles the college recruiting) to understand how recruiting works, and what you should be doing.  You could ask about the HS situation, most likely he will reassure you it doesn't matter.

@BB and BB posted:

My 2024 started on varsity in CF as a freshman.  Made all the plays he should have and made some plays no one else could have.  He is the best athlete on the team.  He started the season batting cleanup and performed well.

His sophomore year he took all the preseason reps in CF but when another 2024 (who played JV as a freshman) joined the team 2 weeks before the season started he was automatically awarded the starting CF job.  (The family provides the uniforms and is a big booster) There was no competition for the CF position and my son played RF all season (unless the CF was pitching). My son is a legit D-1 prospect and is one of 2 kids on the team that will be recruited by D-1 (catcher is the other)

My question is, going into his junior year, how should I handle the situation.  Should I talk to the coach?  Should I advise my son to talk to the coach? Should I just let the bull crap politics play out?  He wants to play CF and is better with a much higher ceiling.

Thoughts?

Can your son tolerate playing RF vs CF for the first half of the season?

If not, he should speak to the coach.

But he should understand that by speaking up, he risks losing RF and the cleanup spot...

Coaches know what they're doing and why they're doing it. Although they may be expecting the question and will likely gain respect for your son if he asks, they still won't like to have to answer and may punish him for asking, esp if they've been forced or chose to make a political decision over a fact-based one. Likely that the situation is as uncomfortable to them as it is to you.

Also, this is not a situation where a parent should get directly involved. (You could one-up the other family by out-donating them which is stupid but I've seen it happen.)

Highly likely from my experience that it will play out that the CFer will underperform, maybe even cause the team to lose a couple games. Once his sub-par play become obvious, your son will be moved back up the middle, while the other kid and his struggles move to RF. Then, after all options for him on the field and in the batting order have been exhausted, and it becomes blazingly obvious that his playing time has been bought, he will return to the bench.

Who cares if he plays CF or RF?  At least he’s playing.  College coaches certainly don’t, especially in high school games. My son played every position except Pitcher & Catcher in high school and is now a D3 1B/DH & occasional 3B.

Is he playing on a travel team?  I wouldn’t worry about it in the slightest and you absolutely should not get involved in anyway other than supporting him. You making a bunch of noise about something that’s not a big deal could do damage to your son‘s reputation if coaches start asking around.

If your son is devastated about being the starting right fielder instead of the starting centerfielder in high school, he might not have the mentality to be able to last very long as a college player

@3and2Fastball posted:

Who cares if he plays CF or RF?  At least he’s playing.  College coaches certainly don’t, especially in high school games. My son played every position except Pitcher & Catcher in high school and is now a D3 1B/DH & occasional 3B.

Is he playing on a travel team?  I wouldn’t worry about it in the slightest and you absolutely should not get involved in anyway other than supporting him. You making a bunch of noise about something that’s not a big deal could do damage to your son‘s reputation if coaches start asking around.

If your son is devastated about being the starting right fielder instead of the starting centerfielder in high school, he might not have the mentality to be able to last very long as a college player

THIS ^^^^^^

@BB and BB posted:

.  He runs sub 6.8.  

That is not fast enough to be recruited as a Center Fielder by a D1 program.  My kid’s D3 team’s Center Fielders run 6.7

As mentioned, if the player can hit, they will place him in the position that best suits him.

Why can't parents just sit back and enjoy the ride. It's not important in the recruiting process what position that he plays in HS.

You cannot control a coach's decision.  The only thing a player can control is his own attitude and effort.  I would encourage him to have the best attitude on the team, be the first guy at practice, and the last to leave.  Carry the water cooler and groom the field if necessary.  Dive for balls even if it is practice.  I don't believe in talking to the coach (other than for instructional communication).  The coach communicates with the lineup card and the player communicates with performance.  In college, the fastest outfielder plays center.  Encourage him to work on his speed so that is the case wherever he winds up.     

Where I live high school baseball means NOTHING when it comes to getting a college offer.  Its all about summer travel ball.  The only college scouts that show on are one at a time, there to see a kid they have been scouting all summer.

Not sure if this will help but in four years of HS baseball, my son played probably a total of 5 innings at CF. In 91 games in his professional career, he has probably played less innings somewhere OTHER than CF. And he was recruited and committed as an OF to an SEC school. All this to say, do not worry too much about HS politics

It honestly doesn't matter at all.  Even on D1 teams they move outfielders around.  Rosters just list them as OF.  If he is getting to play and getting to hit, he is fine.  My son sat the bench his entire sophomore year and committed to a top 25 D1 team the following summer.  Other than being frustrating, it didn't hurt his recruiting at all, he had plenty of options.

At just 16 his speed will improve.  But sub 6.8 is fast enough to play CF anywhere. 

Our coach had a kid on the HS team. A junior when mine was a freshman. He started at SS and shouldn't have. Everybody knew and there were whispers in the stands. Coach ended up costing himself two state championships because of sloppy SS play and other guys being out of position as a result. One a real heartbreaker. If the coach wants to do a disservice to his team, that's his business. There really isn't anything you can do about it

Assuming there is actual a politics problem, the only advice is to go to the games, keep your mouth shut, and clap. When there is a bonehead play in center and it costs you a big game you will know that the coach was wrong and your kid will have the last laugh in CF in his college uniform.

What is likely happening: Your son had a more mature bat as a freshman but the other kid was a better defender. The other kid now has a decent enough bat to play varsity and is still the superior defender. The bat is king.

Questions for you - How big is your son? Does he play for a top 50 travel program? How hard does he throw? And how well does he hit verified 85+mph pitching?

Thanks for all of this info.  He has some great advocates at his club.  Guys that have played and coached in MLB that really like my son and have taken him under their wings.  I'm just going to lean on them and let HS be what it is. 

Where's adbono? I feel this thread is not validated without his opinion on the challenges of HS players playing D1 due to the transfer portal.

Interesting story to give insight.  4 or 5 games into the season we are playing one of our conference rivals that beat us twice last year.  We had just beat them the day before on their new turf field.  So we are home and down 2-1 in the 6th.  My son comes up and hits a 2 run homer to take the lead.  In the top of the 7th, the CF makes an error (on a ball my 2027 son catches every day) to allow 2 runs and we lose. 

My son is 6'3 175# pulls down low 90's and has and does hit 85+.  I don't know if our program is a top 50 program in the country but it is certainly one of the best in our area. 

@BB and BB posted:

My son is 6'3 175# pulls down low 90's and has and does hit 85+.  I don't know if our program is a top 50 program in the country but it is certainly one of the best in our area.

2021 End of Year Travel Team Rankings (2024 Grads)

https://www.perfectgame.org/Ra...m/Default.aspx?R=332

1. @BB and BB posted:

Thanks for the reply posts.  He has played in front of D-1 college scouts this summer and played well.  I guess the worst part is the politics.  The whole team knows what is going on and so do a lot of the parents.

And by the way, he plays CF for a very good club program that would beat his HS team 7-8 times out of 10.

Most travel teams would beat high school teams. High school rosters are from a small area. Travel rosters can be from anywhere. The junior year roster of my son’s high school team had twelve players go on to college ball at some level. Three went P5. My son’s travel team would have kicked the crap out of them every time. Everyone went P5 except the kid whose chose an Ivy over Duke.

My son was first team all conference shortstop as a soph. He was moved to center the next season. The new shortstop wasn’t as sold defensively as he. I forgot to complain. The team won the conference his junior and senior year.

I forgot to bitch in college ball when he was moved from center to right. All the outfielders could go get ‘em. He had the strongest arm.

@BB and BB posted:

Interesting story to give insight.  4 or 5 games into the season we are playing one of our conference rivals that beat us twice last year.  We had just beat them the day before on their new turf field.  So we are home and down 2-1 in the 6th.  My son comes up and hits a 2 run homer to take the lead.  In the top of the 7th, the CF makes an error (on a ball my 2027 son catches every day) to allow 2 runs and we lose.

Here’s a major mistake you’re making. You’re comparing your son to teammates. You will not make any friends doing this. Even if some agree with you. You should only compare your son to the player he strives to be tomorrow and next year.

@BB and BB posted:

At just 16 his speed will improve.  But sub 6.8 is fast enough to play CF anywhere.

He would have been the slowest starting outfielder on my son’s high school team. All three were centerfielders on their travel teams. He would be the slowest of all the outfielders on his college roster.

Offer the coach a Tesla. Problem solved.

Too soon?

and never forget that in college all other position players can play the corner outfield spots but outfielders can only play 1B.....so the competition for an OF spot is far greater than it seems....HIT

@IAmThatGuy posted:

Offer the coach a Tesla. Problem solved.

Too soon?

Back from vacation?

@BB and BB posted:

Interesting story to give insight.  4 or 5 games into the season we are playing one of our conference rivals that beat us twice last year.  We had just beat them the day before on their new turf field.  So we are home and down 2-1 in the 6th.  My son comes up and hits a 2 run homer to take the lead.  In the top of the 7th, the CF makes an error (on a ball my 2027 son catches every day) to allow 2 runs and we lose.

The only interesting insight this story gives is proof that you came here looking for validation that your son should be starting and not asking for advice/opinions. The homerun and the error are completely unrelated. The homerun would have happened if your son were in CF or not. If the SS made the error and you lost 2-1 would the story matter any more or less?

There is a difference between saying here's the situation - thoughts? And continually trying to prove your son should be starting in CF. If you want to vent, say that. You asked for advice.

Listen to the advice of the many seasoned vets who have gone thru similar situations or at the very least know the right way to approach the situation.

I'm sure your kid is good. The kid in center is probably benefiting from his parents involvement with the program. The coaches favorite comes in many shapes forms and sizes. Sometimes it's the kid of the booster, sometimes it's the kid of the attractive mom who bakes cupcakes for the coaches and flirts, sometimes it's the best player.

The mature conversation is your son going to the coach and saying: Hey I was your starting CF last year, I thought I played pretty well, why'd you move me to RF and what do I need to work on to prove I can stick in center?

The answer may just be - Johnny is a better defender than you, he's a little faster blah blah blah. He needs to listen and follow the advice. If he thinks your son needs to get faster, listen to him because college coaches can see the same thing. If you think he's blowing smoke then I guess his opinion never mattered anyway.

Plus, anyone who has ever watched a HS baseball team has seen something exactly like this.  And you never may find out what the coach's reasoning was.  I perfectly understand your obsessing about it right now - I know I did.  So it probably won't help if I tell you that in four years, you won't care.

@BB and BB posted:

I'm just going to lean on them and let HS be what it is.

But let me say again, don't just lean on them, be proactive, ask to have a conversation about your son, now - the fall is a good time - just to get yourself straight for the coming year.

Thank you all

@anotherparent posted:

This is not always true, especially before junior year.  Many travel coaches assume parents know this and therefore don't explain it.

In a quality travel program one of the first things that occurs is a sit down with the player and the coaches. The player presents lists of schools. The list gets broken down to doable, reach and unrealistic Then the coaches inventory their college contacts from the list.

@BB and BB posted:

My 2024 started on varsity in CF as a freshman.  Made all the plays he should have and made some plays no one else could have.  He is the best athlete on the team.  He started the season batting cleanup and performed well.

His sophomore year he took all the preseason reps in CF but when another 2024 (who played JV as a freshman) joined the team 2 weeks before the season started he was automatically awarded the starting CF job.  (The family provides the uniforms and is a big booster) There was no competition for the CF position and my son played RF all season (unless the CF was pitching). My son is a legit D-1 prospect and is one of 2 kids on the team that will be recruited by D-1 (catcher is the other)

My question is, going into his junior year, how should I handle the situation.  Should I talk to the coach?  Should I advise my son to talk to the coach? Should I just let the bull crap politics play out?  He wants to play CF and is better with a much higher ceiling.

Thoughts?

@BB and BB: I reread your post and can relate. What my son liked about HS baseball were his teammates, the competition and the rivalries. In HS, I don't know if "politics" was involved as much as odd coaching decisions that would make one scratch his head. If your son's goal is to play college ball, he probably (if not already) should play on a visible travel team that can highlight his strengths (which you believe is CF) to supplement HS.  As for HS, very true, it is important to BE in the lineup.

My son played American Legion in summer, then supplemented his visibility by participating in showcases that had coaches in attendance from schools he was interested. (Headfirst & Showball initially, then "college specific camps." )

So here's what did we see/hear in his HS career of interest:

1) He played 3B for almost all his JR year.  I once overheard two scouts sitting in front of me in the stands commenting that RipkenFanSon was the fastest runner they clocked in the state (he was a 6.4 runner). "What the _ _ _ _ is he playing third base?"

2) After regular SS (a jr) made several errors and had no range son's senior year, RipkenFanSon was eventually moved to SS later in season, and team defense solidified.

3) During son's sophomore year he was "DH-ed" for. (His college teammates teased him on that one). Oh..son never pitched. He was DH-ed for as a position player.

The "postscript" for the above (#3)  is that son graduated from college a few years ago as having the second most hits in school history (school has been playing 157 years), and sixth most hits  all-time in the conference (Which has almost been around that long!).

On the plus, I guess, son was penciled in to start in 6 different positions (no P, C, 1B) on his varsity team.  The versatility actually landed the offer in college which was looking for an "athletic MI who could play the OF. " He played either SS or CF on Legion. For showcases he would usually bring both gloves.

So in summary, getting playing time and starting is key in HS. I never said anything to the coaches. Your son should strive to make all the plays that come to him. Put together quality ABs. As for you, enjoy the season and root for the team! Colleges will better place your son where "he fits" or where a need is. If he showcases,  most outfield reps in skill evaluations are from CF. The coaches/scouts then can gauge how your son can track down balls. Good luck!

Thank you.  We just got home from our local HS football game and I was talking to a dad about how helpful this site is. 

We are just going to keep working to get  faster and stronger and let HS take care of itself.  He has a college camp in 2 weeks!! 

@2022NYC posted:

Where's adbono? I feel this thread is not validated without his opinion on the challenges of HS players playing D1 due to the transfer portal.

  We are awfully cute today aren’t we?!?  Since you asked, I have been on the baseball field all day today evaluating college pitchers and will be doing the same for the next 7-10 days.
  In the case described by the OP, it’s a simple risk/reward analysis. And the risk greatly outweighs the reward. The answer is simple. Do nothing. Things will work out  - as most people have said.
  In response to your barb, the D1 situation is the worst in areas where D1 baseball is the most competitive. Which happens to be where I live.  I don’t think the portal has near the impact in regions where D1 baseball isn’t as good as the SEC, ACC, and the Big12. Not many players go into the portal with an eye on the MAAC. However, I actually believe that mid-majors are the most realistic target if you are hell bent on D1. Unless you have draft talent.
  Are you happy now?