Help on how to handle a situation

@BB and BB posted:

My question is, going into his junior year, how should I handle the situation.  Should I talk to the coach?  Should I advise my son to talk to the coach? Should I just let the bull crap politics play out?  He wants to play CF and is better with a much higher ceiling.

Thoughts?

Other than your kid not getting what he "wants" , what impact is the coach's decision having on his life. He's still playing, just not where he would like.

If he really has the skills to succeed at CF at the next level those coaches will figure it out.

You as a parent should 100% stay out of it. If your kid feels really strongly about it then he can talk to his coach.

And if he becomes a D-1 CF you can have the last laugh.

I've always been told that they don't recruit right fielders. 

Count your blessings. As mentioned before, at least he has a spot on the field. We have a potential draft prospect locked down in CF. A top player is transferring in. My son would be a starter on any other team in the state, but he may not get playing time on his HS team until his senior year due to the high skill level of the other players and politics. So we just tell him to keep working hard and continue to get better. We tell him he needs to be so good it would make the coach look like an idiot to bench him. He gets playing time with his club team and he performs well for them (they face tougher competition than HS). As far as I'm concerned...he's learning patience, how to fight for playing time, and that life isn't always fair from his HS team.

I was told by a P5 coach just recently there is an appropriate time to talk with a coach about playing time/position. He recommended our son reach out to his coach now, before the season, to discuss his goals and aspirations for the upcoming season.

FWIW, my son’s team will have 5 D1 committed OF’s in the spring. 2 will sit or DH, 1 will play RF, 1 will play LF. If your son is that good he will be recruited.

Go over the coach’s head to the AD and the school board. They will take care of the problem.

Now back to reality land…. Unless a kid is a top shelf pro prospect projected to go high in the draft chances are he’s not going to be scouted at high school games. He’s going to scouted at travel tournaments and showcases. He’s going to be presold to college coaches by an advocate. Advocates are typically travel coaches or private instructors with credibility and college contacts.

When I see these posts I wonder if they’re real or a spoof. Parents of potential D1 players typically know how recruiting works and their kids have been recruited to the travel teams who will get them to college ball.

College coaches recruit metrics. If a kid hits, has the right exit velocity, sixty time and game instincts  it doesn’t matter what position he’s playing in travel ball. It would be fortunate if a college coach shows up for a high school game. They’re busy coaching their college team in the spring.

Thanks for the reply posts.  He has played in front of D-1 college scouts this summer and played well.  I guess the worst part is the politics.  The whole team knows what is going on and so do a lot of the parents.

And by the way, he plays CF for a very good club program that would beat his HS team 7-8 times out of 10. 

BB;

why is it important to you. You have already placed your son in D-1. Has he received a athletic scholarship?

Why not organize the parents to make a donation similar to the Dad of the CF.  Who are the College scouts? Is your son a Lefty hitter? What is his running speed? Does he play football?

Bob

The old HS baseball politics because of course the coach doesn't place winning above relationships with parents.  Who are you to say your son has a higher ceiling?  Obviously the other 2024 has some ability or he wouldn't pitch as well as play the OF.  There was competition for the position you just weren't made aware of it.  It seems the coach believed he needed to pull the other OF up from JV and put him in CF and move your son to RF to make the team better.  I have seen coaches do this thing where they feel like in order to make the team better they put players in positions their parents don't necessarily agree with.  I can speak from experience that getting involved and complaining to the coach won't help your son at all.  When my son was moved up to the varsity as a freshman OF I felt he was a better athlete than the SR CF and it would be better for his future  to play CF.  I went to the coach and asked him why he did not see the same things I did?  As he should have, the coach told me to go away and never come back....  Word got to the SR CF's mother what I had done....My wife made me sleep on the sofa the rest of baseball season and my older son still barely speaks to me....

He does not play football.  He runs sub 6.8.  Is a RH hitter.  Xavier and Michigan (that I know of) have seen him hit good pitching at scout tournaments and events this summer.  I have not placed my son in D1.  I just know he has the ability.  And I expect him to be offered next summer.  It is important to me because he is my son and I love him and want what is best for him. 

@RJM posted:

Parents of potential D1 players typically know how recruiting works and their kids have been recruited to the travel teams who will get them to college ball.

This is not always true, especially before junior year.  Many travel coaches assume parents know this and therefore don't explain it.

@RJM posted:

Now back to reality land…. Unless a kid is a top shelf pro prospect projected to go high in the draft chances are he’s not going to be scouted at high school games. He’s going to scouted at travel tournaments and showcases. He’s going to be presold to college coaches by an advocate. Advocates are typically travel coaches or private instructors with credibility and college contacts.

This is completely true.  If your son is likely to be offered next summer, you should have a conversation, NOW, with the club coach or organization head (whoever handles the college recruiting) to understand how recruiting works, and what you should be doing.  You could ask about the HS situation, most likely he will reassure you it doesn't matter.

@BB and BB posted:

My 2024 started on varsity in CF as a freshman.  Made all the plays he should have and made some plays no one else could have.  He is the best athlete on the team.  He started the season batting cleanup and performed well.

His sophomore year he took all the preseason reps in CF but when another 2024 (who played JV as a freshman) joined the team 2 weeks before the season started he was automatically awarded the starting CF job.  (The family provides the uniforms and is a big booster) There was no competition for the CF position and my son played RF all season (unless the CF was pitching). My son is a legit D-1 prospect and is one of 2 kids on the team that will be recruited by D-1 (catcher is the other)

My question is, going into his junior year, how should I handle the situation.  Should I talk to the coach?  Should I advise my son to talk to the coach? Should I just let the bull crap politics play out?  He wants to play CF and is better with a much higher ceiling.

Thoughts?

Can your son tolerate playing RF vs CF for the first half of the season?

If not, he should speak to the coach.

But he should understand that by speaking up, he risks losing RF and the cleanup spot...

Coaches know what they're doing and why they're doing it. Although they may be expecting the question and will likely gain respect for your son if he asks, they still won't like to have to answer and may punish him for asking, esp if they've been forced or chose to make a political decision over a fact-based one. Likely that the situation is as uncomfortable to them as it is to you.

Also, this is not a situation where a parent should get directly involved. (You could one-up the other family by out-donating them which is stupid but I've seen it happen.)

Highly likely from my experience that it will play out that the CFer will underperform, maybe even cause the team to lose a couple games. Once his sub-par play become obvious, your son will be moved back up the middle, while the other kid and his struggles move to RF. Then, after all options for him on the field and in the batting order have been exhausted, and it becomes blazingly obvious that his playing time has been bought, he will return to the bench.

Who cares if he plays CF or RF?  At least he’s playing.  College coaches certainly don’t, especially in high school games. My son played every position except Pitcher & Catcher in high school and is now a D3 1B/DH & occasional 3B.

Is he playing on a travel team?  I wouldn’t worry about it in the slightest and you absolutely should not get involved in anyway other than supporting him. You making a bunch of noise about something that’s not a big deal could do damage to your son‘s reputation if coaches start asking around.

If your son is devastated about being the starting right fielder instead of the starting centerfielder in high school, he might not have the mentality to be able to last very long as a college player

@3and2Fastball posted:

Who cares if he plays CF or RF?  At least he’s playing.  College coaches certainly don’t, especially in high school games. My son played every position except Pitcher & Catcher in high school and is now a D3 1B/DH & occasional 3B.

Is he playing on a travel team?  I wouldn’t worry about it in the slightest and you absolutely should not get involved in anyway other than supporting him. You making a bunch of noise about something that’s not a big deal could do damage to your son‘s reputation if coaches start asking around.

If your son is devastated about being the starting right fielder instead of the starting centerfielder in high school, he might not have the mentality to be able to last very long as a college player

THIS ^^^^^^

@BB and BB posted:

.  He runs sub 6.8.  

That is not fast enough to be recruited as a Center Fielder by a D1 program.  My kid’s D3 team’s Center Fielders run 6.7

As mentioned, if the player can hit, they will place him in the position that best suits him.

Why can't parents just sit back and enjoy the ride. It's not important in the recruiting process what position that he plays in HS.

You cannot control a coach's decision.  The only thing a player can control is his own attitude and effort.  I would encourage him to have the best attitude on the team, be the first guy at practice, and the last to leave.  Carry the water cooler and groom the field if necessary.  Dive for balls even if it is practice.  I don't believe in talking to the coach (other than for instructional communication).  The coach communicates with the lineup card and the player communicates with performance.  In college, the fastest outfielder plays center.  Encourage him to work on his speed so that is the case wherever he winds up.     

Where I live high school baseball means NOTHING when it comes to getting a college offer.  Its all about summer travel ball.  The only college scouts that show on are one at a time, there to see a kid they have been scouting all summer.

Not sure if this will help but in four years of HS baseball, my son played probably a total of 5 innings at CF. In 91 games in his professional career, he has probably played less innings somewhere OTHER than CF. And he was recruited and committed as an OF to an SEC school. All this to say, do not worry too much about HS politics

It honestly doesn't matter at all.  Even on D1 teams they move outfielders around.  Rosters just list them as OF.  If he is getting to play and getting to hit, he is fine.  My son sat the bench his entire sophomore year and committed to a top 25 D1 team the following summer.  Other than being frustrating, it didn't hurt his recruiting at all, he had plenty of options.

At just 16 his speed will improve.  But sub 6.8 is fast enough to play CF anywhere. 

Our coach had a kid on the HS team. A junior when mine was a freshman. He started at SS and shouldn't have. Everybody knew and there were whispers in the stands. Coach ended up costing himself two state championships because of sloppy SS play and other guys being out of position as a result. One a real heartbreaker. If the coach wants to do a disservice to his team, that's his business. There really isn't anything you can do about it

Assuming there is actual a politics problem, the only advice is to go to the games, keep your mouth shut, and clap. When there is a bonehead play in center and it costs you a big game you will know that the coach was wrong and your kid will have the last laugh in CF in his college uniform.

What is likely happening: Your son had a more mature bat as a freshman but the other kid was a better defender. The other kid now has a decent enough bat to play varsity and is still the superior defender. The bat is king.

Questions for you - How big is your son? Does he play for a top 50 travel program? How hard does he throw? And how well does he hit verified 85+mph pitching?

Thanks for all of this info.  He has some great advocates at his club.  Guys that have played and coached in MLB that really like my son and have taken him under their wings.  I'm just going to lean on them and let HS be what it is. 

Where's adbono? I feel this thread is not validated without his opinion on the challenges of HS players playing D1 due to the transfer portal.

Interesting story to give insight.  4 or 5 games into the season we are playing one of our conference rivals that beat us twice last year.  We had just beat them the day before on their new turf field.  So we are home and down 2-1 in the 6th.  My son comes up and hits a 2 run homer to take the lead.  In the top of the 7th, the CF makes an error (on a ball my 2027 son catches every day) to allow 2 runs and we lose. 

My son is 6'3 175# pulls down low 90's and has and does hit 85+.  I don't know if our program is a top 50 program in the country but it is certainly one of the best in our area. 

@BB and BB posted:

My son is 6'3 175# pulls down low 90's and has and does hit 85+.  I don't know if our program is a top 50 program in the country but it is certainly one of the best in our area.

2021 End of Year Travel Team Rankings (2024 Grads)

https://www.perfectgame.org/Ra...m/Default.aspx?R=332

1. @BB and BB posted:

Thanks for the reply posts.  He has played in front of D-1 college scouts this summer and played well.  I guess the worst part is the politics.  The whole team knows what is going on and so do a lot of the parents.

And by the way, he plays CF for a very good club program that would beat his HS team 7-8 times out of 10.

Most travel teams would beat high school teams. High school rosters are from a small area. Travel rosters can be from anywhere. The junior year roster of my son’s high school team had twelve players go on to college ball at some level. Three went P5. My son’s travel team would have kicked the crap out of them every time. Everyone went P5 except the kid whose chose an Ivy over Duke.

My son was first team all conference shortstop as a soph. He was moved to center the next season. The new shortstop wasn’t as sold defensively as he. I forgot to complain. The team won the conference his junior and senior year.

I forgot to bitch in college ball when he was moved from center to right. All the outfielders could go get ‘em. He had the strongest arm.

@BB and BB posted:

Interesting story to give insight.  4 or 5 games into the season we are playing one of our conference rivals that beat us twice last year.  We had just beat them the day before on their new turf field.  So we are home and down 2-1 in the 6th.  My son comes up and hits a 2 run homer to take the lead.  In the top of the 7th, the CF makes an error (on a ball my 2027 son catches every day) to allow 2 runs and we lose.

Here’s a major mistake you’re making. You’re comparing your son to teammates. You will not make any friends doing this. Even if some agree with you. You should only compare your son to the player he strives to be tomorrow and next year.

@BB and BB posted:

At just 16 his speed will improve.  But sub 6.8 is fast enough to play CF anywhere.

He would have been the slowest starting outfielder on my son’s high school team. All three were centerfielders on their travel teams. He would be the slowest of all the outfielders on his college roster.

Offer the coach a Tesla. Problem solved.

Too soon?

and never forget that in college all other position players can play the corner outfield spots but outfielders can only play 1B.....so the competition for an OF spot is far greater than it seems....HIT

@IAmThatGuy posted:

Offer the coach a Tesla. Problem solved.

Too soon?

Back from vacation?

@BB and BB posted:

Interesting story to give insight.  4 or 5 games into the season we are playing one of our conference rivals that beat us twice last year.  We had just beat them the day before on their new turf field.  So we are home and down 2-1 in the 6th.  My son comes up and hits a 2 run homer to take the lead.  In the top of the 7th, the CF makes an error (on a ball my 2027 son catches every day) to allow 2 runs and we lose.

The only interesting insight this story gives is proof that you came here looking for validation that your son should be starting and not asking for advice/opinions. The homerun and the error are completely unrelated. The homerun would have happened if your son were in CF or not. If the SS made the error and you lost 2-1 would the story matter any more or less?

There is a difference between saying here's the situation - thoughts? And continually trying to prove your son should be starting in CF. If you want to vent, say that. You asked for advice.

Listen to the advice of the many seasoned vets who have gone thru similar situations or at the very least know the right way to approach the situation.

I'm sure your kid is good. The kid in center is probably benefiting from his parents involvement with the program. The coaches favorite comes in many shapes forms and sizes. Sometimes it's the kid of the booster, sometimes it's the kid of the attractive mom who bakes cupcakes for the coaches and flirts, sometimes it's the best player.

The mature conversation is your son going to the coach and saying: Hey I was your starting CF last year, I thought I played pretty well, why'd you move me to RF and what do I need to work on to prove I can stick in center?

The answer may just be - Johnny is a better defender than you, he's a little faster blah blah blah. He needs to listen and follow the advice. If he thinks your son needs to get faster, listen to him because college coaches can see the same thing. If you think he's blowing smoke then I guess his opinion never mattered anyway.

Plus, anyone who has ever watched a HS baseball team has seen something exactly like this.  And you never may find out what the coach's reasoning was.  I perfectly understand your obsessing about it right now - I know I did.  So it probably won't help if I tell you that in four years, you won't care.

@BB and BB posted:

I'm just going to lean on them and let HS be what it is.

But let me say again, don't just lean on them, be proactive, ask to have a conversation about your son, now - the fall is a good time - just to get yourself straight for the coming year.

Thank you all

@anotherparent posted:

This is not always true, especially before junior year.  Many travel coaches assume parents know this and therefore don't explain it.

In a quality travel program one of the first things that occurs is a sit down with the player and the coaches. The player presents lists of schools. The list gets broken down to doable, reach and unrealistic Then the coaches inventory their college contacts from the list.

@BB and BB posted:

My 2024 started on varsity in CF as a freshman.  Made all the plays he should have and made some plays no one else could have.  He is the best athlete on the team.  He started the season batting cleanup and performed well.

His sophomore year he took all the preseason reps in CF but when another 2024 (who played JV as a freshman) joined the team 2 weeks before the season started he was automatically awarded the starting CF job.  (The family provides the uniforms and is a big booster) There was no competition for the CF position and my son played RF all season (unless the CF was pitching). My son is a legit D-1 prospect and is one of 2 kids on the team that will be recruited by D-1 (catcher is the other)

My question is, going into his junior year, how should I handle the situation.  Should I talk to the coach?  Should I advise my son to talk to the coach? Should I just let the bull crap politics play out?  He wants to play CF and is better with a much higher ceiling.

Thoughts?

@BB and BB: I reread your post and can relate. What my son liked about HS baseball were his teammates, the competition and the rivalries. In HS, I don't know if "politics" was involved as much as odd coaching decisions that would make one scratch his head. If your son's goal is to play college ball, he probably (if not already) should play on a visible travel team that can highlight his strengths (which you believe is CF) to supplement HS.  As for HS, very true, it is important to BE in the lineup.

My son played American Legion in summer, then supplemented his visibility by participating in showcases that had coaches in attendance from schools he was interested. (Headfirst & Showball initially, then "college specific camps." )

So here's what did we see/hear in his HS career of interest:

1) He played 3B for almost all his JR year.  I once overheard two scouts sitting in front of me in the stands commenting that RipkenFanSon was the fastest runner they clocked in the state (he was a 6.4 runner). "What the _ _ _ _ is he playing third base?"

2) After regular SS (a jr) made several errors and had no range son's senior year, RipkenFanSon was eventually moved to SS later in season, and team defense solidified.

3) During son's sophomore year he was "DH-ed" for. (His college teammates teased him on that one). Oh..son never pitched. He was DH-ed for as a position player.

The "postscript" for the above (#3)  is that son graduated from college a few years ago as having the second most hits in school history (school has been playing 157 years), and sixth most hits  all-time in the conference (Which has almost been around that long!).

On the plus, I guess, son was penciled in to start in 6 different positions (no P, C, 1B) on his varsity team.  The versatility actually landed the offer in college which was looking for an "athletic MI who could play the OF. " He played either SS or CF on Legion. For showcases he would usually bring both gloves.

So in summary, getting playing time and starting is key in HS. I never said anything to the coaches. Your son should strive to make all the plays that come to him. Put together quality ABs. As for you, enjoy the season and root for the team! Colleges will better place your son where "he fits" or where a need is. If he showcases,  most outfield reps in skill evaluations are from CF. The coaches/scouts then can gauge how your son can track down balls. Good luck!

Thank you.  We just got home from our local HS football game and I was talking to a dad about how helpful this site is. 

We are just going to keep working to get  faster and stronger and let HS take care of itself.  He has a college camp in 2 weeks!! 

@2022NYC posted:

Where's adbono? I feel this thread is not validated without his opinion on the challenges of HS players playing D1 due to the transfer portal.

  We are awfully cute today aren’t we?!?  Since you asked, I have been on the baseball field all day today evaluating college pitchers and will be doing the same for the next 7-10 days.
  In the case described by the OP, it’s a simple risk/reward analysis. And the risk greatly outweighs the reward. The answer is simple. Do nothing. Things will work out  - as most people have said.
  In response to your barb, the D1 situation is the worst in areas where D1 baseball is the most competitive. Which happens to be where I live.  I don’t think the portal has near the impact in regions where D1 baseball isn’t as good as the SEC, ACC, and the Big12. Not many players go into the portal with an eye on the MAAC. However, I actually believe that mid-majors are the most realistic target if you are hell bent on D1. Unless you have draft talent.
  Are you happy now?

@SpeedDemon posted:

2021 End of Year Travel Team Rankings (2024 Grads)

https://www.perfectgame.org/Ra...m/Default.aspx?R=332

This is a good list but not THE only list. At least 1 really good team is not on the list of 100 but “honorable mention”. My kids club (different year than him) was invited to USA baseball national championship this year. Only 16 invites so USA baseball thought they were “top 50”. They beat the #1 team on that list.

Lots of good advice already mentioned. Play ball and concentrate on getting faster/stronger/better and make others around you better.

As a parent, I do not talk to the coaches.  Only one exception ... when there is an injury and I need to help my son manage expectations with regards to the return to play (return to pitching) timeline.  Our HS promotes "self advocacy" with the student-athletes ... I try to nurture that value and capacity within my son.

@used2lurk posted:

This is a good list but not THE only list. At least 1 really good team is not on the list of 100 but “honorable mention”. My kids club (different year than him) was invited to USA baseball national championship this year. Only 16 invites so USA baseball thought they were “top 50”. They beat the #1 team on that list.

Lots of good advice already mentioned. Play ball and concentrate on getting faster/stronger/better and make others around you better.

OK. But a better argument, rather than the results of one game / who got invited to one tournament, would be that the rankings are based on a PG-only data set, and therefore not reflective of the totality of national-level play.

Are there other rankings readily available? Would love a link if possible. Thanks.

Parents and players put way too much stock in PG rankings. To some extent rankings can be influenced by the amount of money a player pays to the “scouting service” in question. So they aren’t without bias and coaches know that. Team rankings are especially subjective and mean nothing to anyone other than the members of those teams. Most coaches aren’t offering a player without seeing him play. Usually multiple times. With a few exceptions (that are usually pitchers) offers aren’t typically issued from just reviewing video. And once you get to campus rankings mean absolutely nothing. Best player plays.

@adbono posted:

Parents and players put way too much stock in PG rankings. To some extent rankings can be influenced by the amount of money a player pays to the “scouting service” in question. So they aren’t without bias and coaches know that. Team rankings are especially subjective and mean nothing to anyone other than the members of those teams. Most coaches aren’t offering a player without seeing him play. Usually multiple times. With a few exceptions (that are usually pitchers) offers aren’t typically issued from just reviewing video. And once you get to campus rankings mean absolutely nothing. Best player plays.

Sure but what’s the alternative?

If tournament data is easily and readily available, why not use it?

@BB and BB posted:

He does not play football.  He runs sub 6.8.  Is a RH hitter.  Xavier and Michigan (that I know of) have seen him hit good pitching at scout tournaments and events this summer.  I have not placed my son in D1.  I just know he has the ability.  And I expect him to be offered next summer.  It is important to me because he is my son and I love him and want what is best for him.

Hi BB,

I haven't replied to one of these posts in a long time.  Almost every angle has been covered already - I hope you are picking up on some of the nuances of the replies.  Based on your last comment, it seems you are.

I want to focus on the last sentence of your quote above.  It seems your son has certainly been blessed with the talent and skill set to succeed at this game at a high level.  Check.  The next really important aspect is what type of teammate he is.  If you want what is best for him, it is really important to use this situation as a teaching/learning experience.  This works two ways.  What example are you setting by your words and behavior and what guidance are you giving him (how is he handling the situation)?  Ideally, with your encouragement, he is embracing the position change as another way he can help the team win with the assumption the move is made to put the best possible nine on the field for the team to succeed.  Just as important, he should be embracing the new CF, making him feel comfortable as an important contributor to the team and helping him in every possible way to succeed.  He should be doing all of this with a positive attitude.  That's what good team players do.  Those players are usually able to do so by seeing the example set and hearing that encouragement from their parents.  And, yes, even at 16, our sons and daughters are still being shaped in part by our words and actions.

It doesn't matter if your son is the better CF.  Maybe it's politics.  Maybe it is a move the coach is making to put out the best nine.  I could go into much greater detail with that aspect but it doesn't matter either way.  Be the best you can be.  Help the team be the best they can be.  Be a positive presence on the field and in the dugout... with EVERY player and coach on the TEAM.  Every day.  This, along with the talent and skill set will not only put him in the best place to advance in his career but it is the right thing to do.

As a dad (or mom) setting the example, do the same.  Root for every player with the same team-minded mentality.  Be part of the group that douses or ignores negative parent chatter and, instead, is a positive supporter of the program (and I don't mean financially).   

Side note (secondary to my message above)... my fairly fast talented CF son started as a frosh in HS as well.  Throughout his HS career, he started at CF, then at various times, played both other OF positions, 1B and C.  For most of the time, he was the best CF but moves were necessary to put the best nine on the field, including putting my LH son behind the dish one season.  Later, his experience at those positions benefited him greatly through a five year college career during which he played all three OF spots.  Many other situations arose that I would never have thought of that brought about the position changes, whether for just a game or much longer.

Best to you..

Excellent post by @cabbagedad!

@BB and BB Moving from CF to RF isn't a "demotion," it says that your son has a great arm with accuracy and the coach values it!

On 2024's HS and summer teams, the best arms are in RF and they are very athletic.

When your boy gets to college, Mr. Coach may see him contributing somewhere else! Best wishes!

A lot of great advice here, but I guess I’m feeling a little salty today… I can think only 3 reason to start a conversation with a HC – abuse (physical or emotional), injury/illness or saying thank you – I believe everything else should be handled by the athlete.

The HS coach is our kids’ first experience in having a job and dealing with the dynamics of having a real boss. A boss that has complete control of something they value. There are great bosses and there are terrible bosses, but if you value your job you need to find a way to make it work…  IMO, nothing good comes from a parent getting involved in this lesson.

The best thing about baseball are the life lessons, everything else is bonus…

PG ratings don’t matter. Only the metrics matter. Then, how the player performs matters. The players are at the top of the ratings are known by the college coaches and pro scouts as top prospects. After these guys it doesn’t matter if you’re #250 or #700. It’s going to be about how you perform when you’re being watched. It doesn’t matter if you’re #1200 or #1800. It’s still about how you perform.

Chances are metrics are the dividing lines in the ratings. But once last the top pro prospects it’s about looking good when it counts. When does it it count? When a college coach shows up to watch because your travel coach presold you can play the game and are a good fit for their program.

Has the other CF performed well - hitting, defense and baserunning?  If so then what's the big deal?  You mentioned he had an error - it happens.  You son has or will make an error. 

The other CF did not perform well this season.  My issue is why don't you  promote and highlight  your premier top players.  If you had a 1st team all conference SS you wouldn't play him at 2B or 1B.  Not only would you be doing the team a disservice, you are doing the student athlete a disservice.  Give your best player the prestige position.  We have a catcher who was also 1st team all conference.  Why not play him at 3rd?  He can field ground balls and make the long throw.  We have another catcher.  It doesn't make sense. 

Two things  — if a player asks the coach why he moved him from CF to RF or any other position, my guess is the answer is "because that's where I need you."

And second, not talking to your son's high school coach is GREAT practice for not talking to your son's college coach. I literally had three conversations with the guy during my son's five years in college — once when he offered him, once when son got his first collegiate win, and last time, on the field when son was recognized for graduating.

It all worked out.

We have two simple rules:

1. Leave the coach alone unless u want to volunteer to coach.

2. Refer to rule 1!

There is not a single position on the bench that is better than any position on the field.  If you ask, you can alienate the coach.

Son started junior year as varsity catcher for an injured senior. Senior returns, he loses the job.  JETson talks to the coach about how can he get back on the field.  Hits a bases loaded pinch hit grand slam. He starts RF the rest of the year. No complaints.

Senior year, new coach, good senior player gets to prove himself as catcher for 4 weeks before state swim season is over.  JETson plays 7 positions before taking over third base, no SS or CF.  No complaints.

Voted Best Teammate by the players.

Recruited as a catcher from his travel team.  Specifically from a scout day they held where he kept hitting the wall with line drives.  A few made it out.

Nobody saw him play in HS.  I take that back, several pro scouts were at his games to watch the guys throwing low to mid 90's.  Doubt they knew he was in the game. So, nobody saw him play in HS.

It's up to your son to talk to the coach.  Time for him to start adulting.  Time for you to let him man up and ask what he can do to improve himself or what he can do to help the team win.  That's a question a coach can respect and that kind of attitude will get reported back to any coaches from D1 that might call.

@BB and BB posted:

The other CF did not perform well this season.  My issue is why don't you  promote and highlight  your premier top players.  If you had a 1st team all conference SS you wouldn't play him at 2B or 1B.  Not only would you be doing the team a disservice, you are doing the student athlete a disservice.  Give your best player the prestige position.  We have a catcher who was also 1st team all conference.  Why not play him at 3rd?  He can field ground balls and make the long throw.  We have another catcher.  It doesn't make sense.

What does not perform well exactly mean?  End of the day there are two types of players on a team during a game.  Those in the lineup playing somewhere that get to hit or guys on the bench.  I would rather start at a secondary position then be back up at my primary position.  Why is your son playing HS baseball?  Does he want to help his team win or does he want to be seen to go to college?  If it's the first then go out and play.  If it's the second he (or probably you) need to re-evaluate your priorities.

@BB and BB posted:

The other CF did not perform well this season.  My issue is why don't you  promote and highlight  your premier top players.  If you had a 1st team all conference SS you wouldn't play him at 2B or 1B.  Not only would you be doing the team a disservice, you are doing the student athlete a disservice.  Give your best player the prestige position.  We have a catcher who was also 1st team all conference.  Why not play him at 3rd?  He can field ground balls and make the long throw.  We have another catcher.  It doesn't make sense.

My son was a first team all conference shortstop soph year. His junior year two players were competing for the one starting spot. One was a shortstop. One was an outfielder. My son was told if the shortstop won the job he would be moved to center. He was. He became a first team all conference outfielder. The shortstop didn’t make all conference at any level that year. The new shortstop made more errors than my son would have made in his nightmares.

The team won its first conference title in twenty years, made it through districts and went to states for the first time in thirty years. They repeated winning the conference the next year. It was the first time they ever won back to back. You do what is best for the team.

Wait until college ball if you want to play a serious game of “what is that guy doing there?” After a solid freshman year, making the All Freshman team and hitting .300 he returned in the fall to find a junior JuCo All American at his position. My son was moved to another position. He was moved to another position the following year. None of it had anything to do with his ability or lack of it. It was about his versatility and what was best for the team.

Is the real issue your right to pound your chest and brag your son plays an elite position?  My son’s high school team had three travel ball center fielders. They ran 6.5, 6,6 and 6.8 sixties. Only one could play center on the high school team except when the #1 center fielder pitched.

Sounds like you see playing RF as the LL mentality.  When you reach HS, RF should not be worst player in the OF.  My son who is now at a P5 school played RF most the time when he was not pitching.  He threw 8-10 hitters out at 1st from RF and there is no one else on the field who can do that.  If your son is truly that much better than the other OF's then everyone will see it, not just his dad.  We never saw it as a disservice but a chance to use his arm where it best fit the team.  Remember, no one recruits HS players, especially Outfielders in HS.  That is why they play travel ball.

Question: When we conducted ML tryouts, the pro scouts had all the OF's throw from RF. When Cal Ripken played SS with the Orioles the CF was a average arm. Cal would go deep on cutoffs as his arm was stronger than the CF.

Morale of the story "baseball teaches adjustments". For players, for parents and definitely for the Coach.

Bob

My kid loved RF this summer, he has decent speed but the coach loved his arm as it got out a lot of greedy runners and saved several runs.

Have watched a ton of high level HS baseball and paid close attention to the OF because thats where my guys played.  In a HS hitting lineup 1-4 follow the typical hit chart distribution.  5-9 skew to RF...so a RFer with a strong arm to stop the automatic 1st to 3rd and  can go get it.... is more valuable than a CF that can go get it...in the HS game....food for thought...

@LaunchAngle posted:

Have watched a ton of high level HS baseball and paid close attention to the OF because thats where my guys played.  In a HS hitting lineup 1-4 follow the typical hit chart distribution.  5-9 skew to RF...so a RFer with a strong arm to stop the automatic 1st to 3rd and  can go get it.... is more valuable than a CF that can go get it...in the HS game....food for thought...

The best defensive OF will play center in HS. It isn't until you start getting to the higher levels where things like arm matters. A RF with a stronger arm is not more valuable than a strong defensive CF.

The best defender on the oldest's HS team was the CF. He had a D1 glove and D3 bat. He started every game for 4 years. The future D1 All American played RF. The CF went to an Ivy and gave up baseball.

@BB and BB posted:

...My issue is why don't you  promote and highlight  your premier top players.  ...Give your best player the prestige position.  We have a catcher who was also 1st team all conference.  Why not play him at 3rd?  He can field ground balls and make the long throw.  We have another catcher.  It doesn't make sense.

I'll try one more time.  We are not talking about travel or showcase ball.  We're talking about HS where it is a team sport and the primary objective is to play and win as a team.  Not promotion of premier players.  Not giving players a position because it is considered "prestige".  Whether the coach is doing this effectively or not, whether there are also politically motivated decisions being made, not the point.

Regarding your all conference catcher scenario -

If, for example, you have another strong catcher that has a great bat but isn't as capable of playing another position as your #1 catcher, a good coach may just do that change if the pluses outweigh the minuses in the "best nine" equation.  I've done just that.  Yes, moving a good C out of the position will typically have far more impact than swapping OF positions but the concept still stands. 

BB, it's not too late but I sense it's getting close.

@BB and BB posted:

The other CF did not perform well this season.  My issue is why don't you  promote and highlight  your premier top players.  If you had a 1st team all conference SS you wouldn't play him at 2B or 1B.  Not only would you be doing the team a disservice, you are doing the student athlete a disservice.  Give your best player the prestige position.  We have a catcher who was also 1st team all conference.  Why not play him at 3rd?  He can field ground balls and make the long throw.  We have another catcher.  It doesn't make sense.

High school ball is an extension of the local rec league. Nothing more.

*********

Here's an exercise for you to help the coaches:

- fill a Big Gulp cup halfway with ice

- open a beer and put it on the ice

- fill the remaining space with more ice

- put the lid on

- insert a straw

- go down the RF line, set up your chair

- score the game using pencil and paper

- enjoy and be sure to thank everyone on the way out

BB;

Does your team's scorebook tracks  "LOB" and wins and loss?

Bob

My input would be to control what you can control.  If your player is in the lineup, no matter what positions and no matter what slot in the batting order, he will have opportunity to perform.  Sometimes these situations aren't the most clear to all involved for whatever reason.  Players,  and certainly not parent, should not say anything to the coach and play hard when asked.

Happened to my 2015...HS SR had to play 2nd (6'4-225lb) to only stick out like a sore thumb even though recruited C...Recruited by D1 and was told due to flexibility (C,DH & 3) even though waiting for answer on another C recruit extended and offer which if not playing 2 SR year maybe doesn't happen and lastly in College 2015 had to DH sometime even though he felt he was the best C option.

Baseball has afforded my D1 2015 an abundant of life lessons.  He has learned these lessons that are helping him in the corporate world....1. not always does the best person get the job or get the deserved promotion 2. It doesn't really matter what the employee thinks and doing the task asked to the best of their ability is expected and 3. Challenging the superiors is not typically a wise decision because after all your player will be looked upon to be a "Team Player".

The above are attributes experienced by players and are probably the reason they will be successful when their time comes.  Just my opinion.  Hope all goes well.

@SpeedDemon posted:

High school ball is an extension of the local rec league. Nothing more.

*********

Here's an exercise for you to help the coaches:

- fill a Big Gulp cup halfway with ice

- open a beer and put it on the ice

- fill the remaining space with more ice

- put the lid on

- insert a straw

- go down the RF line, set up your chair

- score the game using pencil and paper

- enjoy and be sure to thank everyone on the way out

High school ball is an extension of rec ball, nothing more. What a condescending, snobbish travel ball parent remark.You must be real popular at the high school games.

I’ll bet most of the poster’s kids in this site were proud to represent their high school, prepared and competed as hard as any team and never thought of it as rec ball. Many of them played second and some third sports in high school they took seriously.

We have a conference all star tournament sponsored by the local MLB team. It’s an earned honor to be named to one of the teams. It’s so rec ball colleges from a hundred miles in each direction show up to scout players.

Wow! High school is rec ball. Peeee Uuuuuu.

@RJM posted:

High school ball is an extension of rec ball. What a condescending, snobbish travel ball parent remark.

I’ll bet most of the poster’s kids in this site were proud to represent their high school, prepared and competed as hard as any team and never thought of it as rec ball.

We have a conference all star tournament sponsored by the local MLB team. It’s an earned honor to be named to one of the teams. It’s so rec ball colleges from a hundred miles in each direction show up to scout players.

Wow! High school is rec ball. Peeee Uuuuuu.

Your response is not the putdown you intended it to be. Far from it.

By saying that

- "HS ball is an extension of rec" is a condescending, snobbish travel ball parent remark shows that you respect neither HS nor rec.

You also imply that

- HS players are not proud to represent their school

- HS players are not prepared

- HS players are not competing hard

I wrote none of those things; you did.

You might want to google "self-awareness" and brush up on "dissonance". Because only someone who is dimly aware of themselves, and has a very low opinion of HS ball and rec ball would write what you wrote.

@SpeedDemon posted:

Your response is not the putdown you intended it to be. Far from it.

By saying that

- "HS ball is an extension of rec" is a condescending, snobbish travel ball parent remark shows that you respect neither HS nor rec.

You also imply that

- HS players are not proud to represent their school

- HS players are not prepared

- HS players are not competing hard

I wrote none of those things; you did.

You might want to google "self-awareness" and brush up on "dissonance". Because only someone who is dimly aware of themselves, and has a very low opinion of HS ball and rec ball would write what you wrote.

Don’t twist my words. Don’t attempt to speak for me.

Please let me be more succinct. I’ve been on this board since 2007. Your previous post is right up there at or near the top of the most arrogant, offensive, condescending posts ever made on this board.

Is there a way to get out of a thread once u are in it??!?

This one is sucking the IQ right out of me!

@RJM posted:

Don’t twist my words. Don’t attempt to speak for me.

Please let me be more succinct. I’ve been on this board since 2007. Your previous post is right up there at or near the top of the most arrogant, offensive, condescending posts ever made on this board.

You are attempting to project your flaws onto me.

But you can't hide from what you wrote.

And you know that.

So instead of engaging in self-reflection you lash out, again.

I'll reiterate:

--> Only someone who has an extremely low opinion of rec ball and HS ball would think that "HS is an extension of rec" is "the most arrogant, offensive, condescending posts ever made on this board".

You have hubris where you should have self-reflection.

@SpeedDemon posted:

You are attempting to project your flaws onto me.

But you can't hide from what you wrote.

And you know that.

So instead of engaging in self-reflection you lash out, again.

I'll reiterate:

--> Only someone who has an extremely low opinion of rec ball and HS ball would think that "HS is an extension of rec" is "the most arrogant, offensive, condescending posts ever made on this board".

You have hubris where you should have self-reflection.

The problem is your ego won’t allow you to admit you initial statement trashing high school baseball by calling it “rec ball” was obnoxious, offensive and condescending to all those who have played and coached high school baseball. It was such an arrogant travel ball parent statement.

A person with any class would back off their insult rather than doubling and tripling down.

Do you all remember the Southern California travel team group that tried to replace HS baseball with a Spring travel league. What happen? Always follow the money.
Bob

There are some academies in FL replacing regular HS baseball. Most are like a cheap knock off of IMG. Some advertise to the kids that don’t make the HS teams.

@RJM posted:

The problem is your ego won’t allow you to admit you initial statement trashing high school baseball by calling it “rec ball” was obnoxious, offensive and condescending to all those who have played and coached high school baseball. It was such an arrogant travel ball parent statement.

A person with any class would back off their insult rather than doubling and tripling down.

Once again....

Only someone who has a low opinion of rec ball and high school ball would take "HS is an extension of rec" as an insult.

It was not meant that way, but YOU took it that way.

Because YOU have a problem with equating high school baseball with recreational baseball.

Because YOU coach high school baseball, and played high school baseball, and consider rec beneath you.

Your responses say a lot more about you than about me.

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

There are some academies in FL replacing regular HS baseball. Most are like a cheap knock off of IMG. Some advertise to the kids that don’t make the HS teams.

Where I live in CA, it is harder to make a HS team than pay to be on a travel club. Much harder.

And yes, there are clubs that accept players who got cut from HS so they can play in the spring. I'm a fan of that.

@Consultant posted:

Do you all remember the Southern California travel team group that tried to replace HS baseball with a Spring travel league. What happen? Always follow the money.
Bob

What happened?

Never met the promoters. Are you from the Valley?

ABCL, discussed in this topic from 2012?

https://community.hsbaseballwe...486#2982475077664486

A good thread altogether.  A related one, on "Individual or team?", here:

https://community.hsbaseballwe...421#2982475077669421

@anotherparent posted:

ABCL, discussed in this topic from 2012?

https://community.hsbaseballwe...486#2982475077664486

A good thread altogether.  A related one, on "Individual or team?", here:

https://community.hsbaseballwe...421#2982475077669421

Thanks.

@Consultant posted:

Never met the promoters. Are you from the Valley?

Thanks. I'm from coastal CA.

My son plays up in Norcal.

@BB and BB posted:

I've always been told that they don't recruit right fielders.

If he plays RF well and has the speed metrics to play center playing right won't kill his chances. Coaches want ballplayers who can hit,  play and have the athleticism to play up the middle positions.

So if he can play and has the athleticism to play center that shouldn't hurt him too much.

On the other hand if he is a fringy runner who doesn't cover enough ground to play college in center he should be fine.

First I apologize if I repeat things discussed earlier in this thread, as I skimmed over the responses.  3-2Fastball did say it best.  I will just chip in my son's own journey.  Be grateful he is playing every day as a starter, position doesn't matter.  The more versatile your son is the bigger his book of experience and value becomes.  In travel ball son played every position, high school he started off as OF then became MI freshman year, where he stayed. D1 college HC told us if he can hit like he has shown, he will find a position for him to play every game.  He became their starting OF from that point on.  Minors converted him back to MI where he had to re-familiarize himself again.  In MLB he played MI, OF, and 1B (no experience since travel ball at 1st).  Point is at each level (or team) they will put you in a position as long as you can hit.  Be versatile and have the correct mind set and you will have a better chance of being successful.