Help with hips

Is flexibility a problem with this player, or is hitting the only movement where the hips don't rotate?

Flexibility is not the issue with this player. His hips do start to rotate but he allows his hand to take over the swing.

Have you tried using video with this player?

How old is this player, what experience does he have and what competition is he facing?

I am actually going to break down his video today with him. He dopes face high level competition but everything he hits hard is oppos or he spins on stuff inside.

1. Babe Ruth towel drill - swing with towel in front armpit

2. Use front hip cue instead of back hip cue.

What side does he bat and throw from and what is his primary position?

Sorry for the 20 questiosn - I don't want to recommend drills without full info. In my head, I can see what is happening with the hips. Do his feet get closed off in his stance/load? Have him try hitting with an open stance for a round or two and see how he feels.

He is a right handed hitter and he is a catcher. He does not close off in his stance or his load.

My son's hitting coach has him working in front of the mirror for 10 minutes a night right now to get him more "connected"...for a similar reason as his hands tend to get out in front of his hips once he gets into the hitting zone.

Can't really explain it here, but breaking down the swing in slow motion will help him get the feel of where he should be at any point in his swing, particularly getting his hips through. Seeing it in the mirror really helps conceptualize it also. He also has him focus on driving his left hip back. (RH)

I think this takes awhile to get engrained into a "handsy" hitter.

Drills won't help....

He needs to understand how MLB hitters sequence their body movements.....

Blue Dog,
Would you care to elaborate?

Well, for example, does he know how to swivel the bat between his hands to get the bat moving early without moving toward the ball?

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
Drills won't help....

He needs to understand how MLB hitters sequence their body movements.....

BueDog: I don't understand how drills won't help. I am a big fan of teaching instead of telling, but drills can reinforce what you are teaching and can help hitters understand how to "sequence their body movements."

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
Drills won't help....

He needs to understand how MLB hitters sequence their body movements.....

Drills WILL and DO help IF he understands the sequence (or his coach does and is helping him get there) and is working on duplicating/fixing improper movements....

quote:

but drills can reinforce what you are teaching and can help hitters understand how to "sequence their body movements."

If you wanna believe that, go right ahead...I don't....

Sequencing body movement is best learned with random teaching and delayed feedback.....

Drills are for satisfying Coach's egos, IMO...

I don't have to believe it, I know for a fact that they work. I have seen the results in my son, and many other kids.

He has worked with a very good instructor who is very, very detailed in everything he does and has studied all of the great swings in the game and has a very good understanding of what a good swing looks like and the detailed squences that build one up.

Part of the process involves changing muscle memory with drills done over a period of time. Think what you want but you are incorrect, drills are used throughout sports training (not only hitting) and they are effective. They are also one small part of the process and have nothing to do with egos.

Random teaching will result in random results....

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
Sequencing body movement is best learned with random teaching and delayed feedback.....

Drills are for satisfying Coach's egos, IMO...

Can you define random teaching and delayed feedback?

A coach has posted here to help his player address a specific problem. How would any recommended drills be serving his ego??

quote:

Can you define random teaching and delayed feedback?

I can, but, you would do good to research this for yourself.....

quote:

Part of the process involves changing muscle memory with drills done over a period of time

Muscle memory doesn't exist.....

quote:

Random teaching will result in random results....

BOF, I'm gonna try to put this to be nice, so bear with me....

I don't think you have the slightest idea what random training even is.....Now, am I right?

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:

quote:

Can you define random teaching and delayed feedback?

I can, but, you would do good to research this for yourself.....

I asked you (specifically you) to define these terms so that we best understand what you are trying to say. I asked after doing research (see PM) because I had no clear answers to what you might mean.


May you please define "random teaching" (or "random training") and "delayed feedback" as you intend for us to understand and/or interpret these phrases as it relates to "Help with hips" and your argument not doing drills.

quote:

Random teaching will result in random results....

BOF, I'm gonna try to put this to be nice, so bear with me....

I don't think you have the slightest idea what random training even is.....Now, am I right?

BlueDog.

Frankly I had never heard the term until you posted it. A knowledgeable coach explained it to me. I certainly understand the principle, and again it is one method (of many) of training.

You my friend, and I use this term disingenuously, are a pompous A$$. You think you know everything, but your posts indicate how little you understand about the human learning process. You post short cryptic answers to honest questions from users here who have a desire to learn and improve. Normally when people do this they are insecure, and are afraid to expose what they don’t know or understand. Which is what I believe is your condition. Now if you think that the only way to teach is through random training, you are a bigger fool than I suspect you are.

Finally you put at the bottom of your posts “Read the Bible Often” which I think is an admirable goal for all of us. However from the way you treat people here on this board it is obvious that you do little of this. I will leave you with this to ponder:

“Since God chose you to be the holy people he loves, you must clothe yourselves with tenderhearted mercy, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience.”

BOF, you say you had never heard of random training, yet, you made this comment?

quote:

Random teaching will result in random results....

Don't you realize you were not qualified to make that comment?

And, seriously, I still doubt you, or anyone you know, knows what random training with delayed feedback is.....

BlueDog:

I don't give a rats behind what you think about my qualifications. Are you suddenly the Qualification Police around here.

I repeat:

“Since God chose you to be the holy people he loves, you must clothe yourselves with tenderhearted mercy, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience.”

If you do this your world will be a much better place.

Finally, if you would grace all of us unqualified around here with your wisdom maybe we could achieve your level of excellence.

BOF, please refrain from cursing on this, a High School, board.....

And, just some advice, but, if you put your ego in check, you just may learn something about swinging a bat.....

First I have not cursed.

I repeat:

“Since God chose you to be the holy people he loves, you must clothe yourselves with tenderhearted mercy, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience.”

I think you need to take a look in the mirror regarding egos.

Good day sir.

quote:

First I have not cursed.

Oh, but you have......At least, admit it and move on...

Here we go again--Blue Dog is back !!!!!

I'm gone again, now.....

Not really my group here, anymore.....

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:

quote:

First I have not cursed.

Oh, but you have......At least, admit it and move on...

OK I admit that I cursed, there, you happy. Now you admit that you are an arogant A$$.

Now explain to all of us unworthy seekers of the perfect swing your version of what "random training with delayed feedback" means.



I would still like to remind you that:

“Since God chose you to be the holy people he loves, you must clothe yourselves with tenderhearted mercy, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience.”

There are so many of us out here who enjoy the hitting forum. It has a history of being a topic that generates lively debate.

This forum has been slow for a while and we have seen a number of contributers disappear.

I truely welcome Bluedog's insight and opinions regarding hitting but cannot understand how after an absence of quite a few months he can desire to come on and post antagonistic comments aimed at regular posters like PGStaff or BOF. I understand difference of opinion and different philosophies, but have a difficult time understanding the desire for personal attacks.
Does Bluedog want to discuss the topic of hitting with just himself? Perhaps a Bluedog only thread can be created!
Seriously, I appreciate Bluedog's input and his library of video clips, but I value the sharing of ideas in a constructive manner equally if not more.
I sincerely wish that this forum could once again become a vibrant place where the many ideas and facets of hitting and training to become a better, if not an excellent hitter could flourish again!

floridafan

It use to be that way on thsi site---now we have school hall monitors telling posters thast they cannot do this or that--it is like having sister Superior with the wooden yardstick

Everyone wants it all PC correct--lets not scar a psyche or hurt anyones feelings---years back we had debates, not arguments and name calling, that would curl the hair of many of the posters on here today---BUT---those of us who particpated are to this day friendly and are still in touch---

I don't even post in many of the threads like i used to because of the sensitive nerves and the "lets all be good" thinking--nobody "debates" anymore--if you do not agree with them and their thinking they look to pack up their tent and leave.

By the way two great football games on the tune right now !!!! Think will go and watch the completion of both games

floridafan,

I really never felt that "Bluedog" said anything that was bothersome... At least not any worse than what I posted in response.

I actually like some of the back and forth stuff, though I do feel that some go overboard at times.

The hitting thread was the most interesting back when Doug was still alive and good old teacherman was posting along with Bluedog.

I never have liked the the "one way only" approach, and have no problem voicing that opinion. I do find it rediculous when people say that all those who make their living at the very highest level studying, learning, teaching and coaching hitting have no idea what they are talking about. Guess I have more faith in those types than others do. Some of these people have better and more technology (more resources) than the rest of the world. Whether we agree with them or not it would be a mistake to discount what they have to say all together.

Besides, not to down play the importance of hitting mechanics, IMO the most important ingredient in hitting is what goes on between the ears.

I agree with you TR, I may get worked up some times but I really enjoy the back and forth and in the process of conflict many times there is insight that would not otherwise not be revealed.

PG I had a pretty briliant post (at least I thought it was...OK not brilliant but funny) taken down to not offend you.

I don't like this but will live within the rules. I have not been here that long but this board seems like it is missing something. JMO.

Bluedog - I have to agree with BOF and BobbyTewks here. This has always been your MO - put out cryptic svengali-like comments that no one can understand and then mock those who ask for simple explanation/ clarification. When you do try and answer, more riddles are generated. Please explain what random training and delayed feedback means? Those terms are not intuitively obvious.

I think the hitting clips are valuable but why try and obfuscate your words when the goal ought to be to enlighten?

Wow -

Actually, there has been a collective argument by academia (which I doubt ever actually had to swing a bat) for years. Note: Not my argument or theory, I can't believe I'm actually going to type this....

The debate centers around questioning our traditional motor training methods - verbalized instruction, followed by reps, followed by feedback (pos/neg), versus what is referred to as "cognitive" effort or random training.

The cited drawback occurs when in traditional muscle memory reps, the "mind" takes a nap. Therefore, the reps become less effective, like driving on "autopilot". Traditionally, motor learning suggested motor commands (reps) and the sensory feedback (results) were all that is needed to be stored in memory for learning to occur. Learning leads to results, positive results lead success, success leads to positive feedback, feedback leads to learning... See where I'm going?? We talkin' 'bout practice, practice...

On the other hand, "cognitive" effort (random) training involves planning and recogninzing learning "sensory" indicators (cognition), and.... accepting how this cognitive effort plays an important role in executing motor skills. If you accept and take the next step, the role of cognition during practice takes on more importance = Motor skills involve more than storing sensory and motor feedback arising from the consequence of movement.

Which brings us to two absolutes:

1. This is a bunch of hoo-hoo, and
2. SCCoachs kid still blocks his hips

.... which, like some have already mentioned, I need to see to fairly evaluate.

GED10DaD

Ged10 - thanks for the explanation but I would still be interested to hear more from Bluedog on what it means for baseball training. Does it mean instead of taking 1000 swings on a Tee a day versus only taking 10 swings a day that have been carefully planned out in advance?

PG - my son was just given a copy of Dustin Pedroia's book from one of his college coaches and he has enjoyed it. Doug McMillan was mentioned in the book. He has been sadly missed around here.

I have no clue what he meant by it, but it is probably a training program much better served by a professional athlete than a 15 year old kid.

Maybe I'm too much of a traditionalist??

Most of my 15's need immediate feedback to repeat their swing. And, I want results that can be verified thru observation. It's as important to me to see correct mechanics and repetition.

GED10DaD

BOF,

Not once have I ever asked or requested to have any post changed or deleted. That is left up to the moderators who I believe do a great job.

Nice posts on here.

First on topic. You don't hit with your lower body. I've said this before, you cannot turn your hips 90 mph, but bat speeds are 90 mph. The hips stop and the rotation and hands come forward. The player may be opening early which means he will stop his lower body rotation before his hands are in the proper position. If you could turn your hips 15 mph (which I doubt) then where is the other 75 mph coming from? You spend too much time on lower body and not enough on upper body.

The clip of Williams surprised me. He is "stepping in the bucket" on a middle pitch. This was to clear his hips and rotation. Many good hitters don't go down the line to the pitcher.

Another on point, before I get off point. A scout told me he can find players with their body parts in the right place, but we are developing a mechanically sound group that can't play.

A hitter has to work timing and rhythm. They are not the same. If you think you can mechanically work with a kid all the time you are not seeing the game. The last 5 - 10 minutes of every session is "find your rhythm" when I coach. There are some sessions that have very little mechanical discussions or drills. Also, side toss is useless because it develops bad habits and does not replicate anything. The more a hitter sees a ball thrown overhand from the direction of where a pitcher would throw the better it is. Also, if you want to waste everyone's time in hitting or pitching, then grab a towel and do something with the towel. I use it to wipe the sweat off my brow.

I find those who ignore MLB hitting and teach some system they absolutely know is correct (and it isn't). I find others who teach every kid to swing like they did. I find others who just don't want to learn. I left this site for some time because I enjoyed it when Bluedog, PGStaff, Shep, and a few others who don't post anymore would bat things back-and-forth. Most of you who put him down have offered nothing to my knowledge of hitting over the years.

The many definitions of debate:
http://www.google.com/search?c...te&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

We need definitions/clarification before we can start debating. Since Bluedog put the terms out there, I think it should come from him before we start guessing or assuming what it might mean.

Old Timers - I like the sound of glory days. I'm on board for the debates, the back and forth, and the hair curling comments. I have technology (high speed video), time and the desire to contribute. Please call on me as needed.