Here is a Topic that should

quote:

Originally posted by itsinthegame:
have every player and parent reading.

I hope PG doesnt mind me reposting this here - but this is a PG response to a post in the Recruiting section:

The ramifications of this are far reaching and indicate a constantly changing landscape for high school baseball players aspiring to go on to the next level. IMO.

PG quote:

"What we do see more of is underclassmen making early committments. That is the single biggest change we've seen in recruiting over the past few years. Colleges are gearing in on kids much earlier."

Early recruiting is a result of parents pressuring college coaches to give their sons early offers. If the coach feels it's a viable option, why not go for it, but NOTHING is a guarantee until they sign. They may make early commitments, but they are still out looking. This is also a direct result of the economic sign of our times, early offer means less money for showcases, tournaments, travel teams.

PG may not agree, but that's what I have been told by a very reliable source.

TPM

Once again you are way off base

Parents can never pressure a college coach to make an offer he isn't ready to---in fact it is usually the opposite--too much parental interference and the coach will write the kid off---they do not need the baggage over the coming 4 years

As for kids not attending showcases, tournaments or join travel teams if they have committed--- a true baseball player wants to always play against the best competition and will be taking part in the best events even after he has committed---he just wants to play baseball at the highest level


I think you had better check your "reliable source" because they are feeding you incorrect information

TR,
By saying I am way off base, you have just actually stated that you know better than a Div 1 college coach. I doubt it very, very much.

I never said that the recruit would not stop playing did I? Usually this recruit is playing at the highest level, going to meaningful events with a purpose (sorry I wasn't clear on that), and eliminates a lot of other stuff, unofficial visits, etc.

This is in regards to players who are true prospects in the country. A player attends the college's camp on numerous occassions, the coaches have watched you develop and make an early determination that you will most likely someday fit into their plans and their program. The parents make strong indication to you that their son would like to attend their program. You CANNOT talk to them off campus or make an offer by phone. It becomes easy. Since you may be a very good recruiter, you kind of know what your needs are years in advance, but many college coaches CANNOT do that. Some coaches are not so good at it, they take early commitments, and in two years they have 7-8 catchers on staff. So the advice told to me was be careful who you commit to, even if it is the school of your dreams.

TPM

Thanx for putting words in my mouth even if it is full with a nice turkey sandwich

I will trust my experience and sources---note I say sources not source--- therein may lie the difference

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
TPM

Thanx for putting words in my mouth even if it is full with a nice turkey sandwich

I will trust my experience and sources---note I say sources not source--- therein may lie the difference

Good for you!

TPM

I am beginning to feel concerned for you---your attitude of late, see RJM and BeenThere posts, has been a bit cantakerous and irritable

You are worried about my attitude?

ROFLMAO.

I made a post, you told me I was way off base, I responded. I just read a post you made to a HS player trying to get info on schools, go back and read your response, that worries me how you all react to youngsters who come to this site.

And just like that within an hour the thread is hijacked, and the point(s) that are trying to be discussed are lost..... and people around here wonder why there's so much animosity around here lately and why there's harly any good solid discussion going on.....

That's an interesting thought its.

That's something that I'd like to hear more about.

I feel pretty,
Oh so pretty,
I feel pretty and witty and wise.

And I pitty,
Anyone who isn't Me?
Do do do di do do dodo.
EH

TPM

Don't ever worry about me--you have enough to do with all the PM's you send out ---I am and will be fine---look at the young man's response--I think he got my point. The HS players of today need to be told the cold truths not have it sugar coated so they are not supposedly "emotionally scarred"--- that term must have come from some psych prof writing a book---you know like all the parenting books that are written by people who have never had a kid

I know darn well that I will never be PC correct in your mind but that does not concern me-- I would rather have a kid know what the story is,like it or not,and know the facts.

There are no givens in the recruiting situation and all too many make it sound too "fluffy". I can only speak from experience as to what is going on and how to go about it and it won't be sugar coated. It will be real.

ITS a Sunday Bantering Hyjack.

LETS GET IT ON.
EH

Doc_K,
You are absolutely correct, I do apologize. I responded to iitg's post, but was told I was way off base. I need to start considering the sources and just carry on.

Back to the topic.

Thanks alot Doc K.
It was just starting to get good??
EH

"K"

The fact is that things have changed recruiting wise not just in the past months but in the past few years.

But I will dispute statements made which I feel are incorrect---it is not hijacking--I term it telling it like it is.

As for what is going to be the final outcome with the new regulations talk with any number of college coaches and they will tell you that they still are not sure what the bottom line is going to be when it all shakes out.


'nuff said for now---the PATS are coming on as is the UCONN/DUKE ladies hoops game

TR, Ladies Hoops is better then this???
EH

Stop! You're both right, and both of you have offered too much good advice to bicker! More early offers are a result of more players going to more showcases and college camps earlier. It is a trend started in basketball years ago. Parents obviously paid for these showcases, tournaments and college camps, and the hosting organizations have been doing a terrific job of getting the word out. College coaches will not make an offer until they are good and ready, but they have the opportunity to see kids multiple times now at a variety of venues (showcases, national tournaments, college camps) and have a herd mentality, which means "you snooze you lose." One offer often means 3 or 4 more for the top kids (emphasize "top"). Early offers for the top kids are the way it's going to be now. Everyone else waits to see what's left. As far as "what's left." I think this year will be a test run for the new NCAA rules. Any predictions as to whether the percentage of the offers in the Spring will be any different than any other year?

TPM,

My son is a 2009 and we are in what we consider the beginning of his recruitment and I cannot imagine a parent pressuring a major college coach into making an offer. My son received his first offer one week ago and we were suprised, flattered and amazed that a D-1 school my son has on his list would do so this early.

Your second post makes more sense ", the coaches have watched you develop and make an early determination that you will most likely someday fit into their plans and their program. The parents make strong indication to you that their son would like to attend their program. " I have seen this happen as major colleges make early offers to players who are worthy and those players commit to the school of their dreams. No parental pressure involved nor could I see how there could be. As in any business all it takes is a few programs to go after juniors in the Fall and the rest follow suit to protect themselves.

Alright, if you want to get back on topic.

If a Player does receive an offer early, and it is where they want to Play College ball.
Then I say go for it.

If it's an early offer, and your not sure if it's the right fit?
And your afraid of not getting another offer.
I would think long and hard on making your commitment.

Even if you are offered an early commitment.
Don't stop looking at schools until you sign on the dotted line.

Don't settle for what you don't want, if it doesn't feel right.
EH

quote:

"What we do see more of is underclassmen making early committments. That is the single biggest change we've seen in recruiting over the past few years. Colleges are gearing in on kids much earlier."

What are parent supposed to do about this problem? I know they want to do everything they can.
Fungo

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo:

quote:

"What we do see more of is underclassmen making early committments. That is the single biggest change we've seen in recruiting over the past few years. Colleges are gearing in on kids much earlier."

What are parent supposed to do about this problem? I know they want to do everything they can.
Fungo

I guess parents just need to communicate how they are handling the process. The ones who have committed early communicated they were ready to do so. Others communicate they will wait to a certain point til they commit.

Extremely early offers/commitments seem to be happening a lot more in certain parts of the country than in others. I've heard of a lot of very early offers on the East Coast; perhaps it's also happening out West. My son and I attended TCU's Junior Day in May and the recruiting coordinator commented that only a very small number (perhaps a dozen?) of Texas '08 players had already committed at the point. The vast majority committed the summer and fall after their junior years, which I don't consider particularly early.

Early offers are not new. What is new is more early offers than in the past. More programs are going after kids earlier that they believe are no brainers. They figure if they dont someone else will and they will miss out on the kid. If your competition is recruiting these young studs early and you are not then they feel they are falling behind. I recently had a conversation with a HC of an ACC school. He said he was going to have to start going after these kids early because he was missing out on some young guys. His own words were "Were not even getting into the game on some of these kids, were going to have to start early too". Out of the top 10 09's in NC that I know 5 have already verballed.

My son got an early offer from an SEC school last spring before his jr HS season started. He was not ready to make a decision. If the school he did sign with had offered then Im sure he would have verballed early. All of this is just a sign of the times in college recruiting. Dawgswoods son is a very talented LHP. He is the type of kid that college coaches will want to lock up early before they miss out. Its just the way it is.

I do know of a 09 that did in fact tell a college coach that he was offered by two other schools and he was going to decide soon. The school he was talking too told him "Dont do anything until you talk to us first OK". The kid went back and said "I need a decision because Im ready to make a decision". The coach offered and he accepted. Now I dont know if you can call that pressure or bargaining or what. But it does indeed happen. And it happens with players that are very talented and have options.

The top players are going to have options and offers earlier than the players that are not considered top players. Does this mean they will be better college players? No. It just means that they are projected to be. If you see an 09 pitcher throwing 90 that can command three pitches do you think he might be pretty good next year too? College coaches are in competition with each other. They are going to go after these type of kids early and often.

Let me back up a minute. I’m not sure I know what “gearing in” on kids while they are underclassmen means. I don’t think the NCAA has relaxed their off campus contact, phone, mail, and email restrictions have they? If the restrictions are still in place coaches cannot “recruit” players earlier so underclassmen are not suddenly subjected to contact by coaches. For the VAST majority of players the process remains the same as I see it. Players and parents have always had the option of going to the campus of picking up the phone and initiating contact about their son’s baseball career and coaches can say whatever they please --- I did it and I got offers but it’s just talk until the NLI is signed. I’m sure there are some overly talented players with over zealous parents that can claim to have finished ahead of the “pack” but they sacrifice other offers in the process. As I see it if your son isn’t OVERLY talented, don’t get excited about early commitments.
Fungo

Parents not putting pressure on college coaches? Coach May's example is right on. That was the example given to me. And so is Fungo's post, coaches have guidelines to follow, parents are making the first contacts earlier and earlier. Having a top recruit as an early verbal also helps in the recruiting process for the coach.

Regardless of the trend, I strongly belive it has been created by parents, not college coaches. Also, even though my son was recruited many years ago, after going through the college experience it is still NOT something I would recommend to my son.


Understand I am not talking about early commitment during the junior year or close to or in summer of senior year. I am talking about the verbal 2-3 years before the player sets foot on a college campus.

It was me that used the words "gearing in"!

Probably not the best choice of words. Guess what I meant is there seems to be much more "interest" in underclassmen than there used to be. More of an effort made to get them on campus and talk to them. This sometimes leading to an early committment.

For the most part it is taking place with the top players and the highest level colleges. For example... UCLA has at least three top 09s committed already. They are not alone!

Years ago colleges and pro scouts didn't pay as much attention to underclassmen as they do now... thus the words "gearing in" seemed somewhat appropriate.

UNC has three 09 verbals already. And all three are outstanding players , considered three of the best players in NC. Would college coaches like to wait and take more time? Im sure they would. But the landscape has changed. I will say PG has something to do with it. Not everything to do with it. When a kid goes to a PG event and there are so many college coaches from around the country there options can increase dramatically. My son was offered by an SEC school based on what they saw before his Jr HS season. He got an offer from this school based on his performance at EC the summer before his Jr year. If he had not played in this event they would have never known who he was. The local schools are in competition with many more schools now for the top players in their state. The exposure of these events is giving kids more options than ever before.

It's pretty hard for a parent to accomplish anything that the college coach is not 100% in favor of.

BTW, U of Florida has also received committments from three of the top 09s. I'm sure they are very excited about all three of these committments. I doubt that any of the parents of those three had to do much to accomplish this. After all, those players will be among the most recruited anyway.

It's really fairly simple. If a player is one of the best sophomores in the country, there are colleges who are going to want to sew him up early if possible.

More and more, I think the top colleges are following some age old advice... If you can't beat them... Join them!

If you don't get them early, somebody else might!

It's not the end of the world, just a small change in the landscape.

These players would end up at bigtime school anyway. So its not like they are taking spots away from kids that dont get offered early. Every year there are going to be kids that college coaches are going to want to get their hooks into early. After that it slows back down to the normal process. Right now the top tier 09's. Then in the spring the remaining 08's. Then the summer the 09's will be in full force. And the fall the 09's with the top tier 10's being sought after. Its just the way it is. Man does time fly PG. It seems like yesterday I was at Duke at the Atlantic Coast Underclass Event. It goes by way too fast my friend.

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
Parents not putting pressure on college coaches? Coach May's example is right on. That was the example given to me. And so is Fungo's post, coaches have guidelines to follow, parents are making the first contacts earlier and earlier. Having a top recruit as an early verbal also helps in the recruiting process for the coach.

Regardless of the trend, I strongly belive it has been created by parents, not college coaches. Also, even though my son was recruited many years ago, after going through the college experience it is still NOT something I would recommend to my son.


Understand I am not talking about early commitment during the junior year or close to or in summer of senior year. I am talking about the verbal 2-3 years before the player sets foot on a college campus.

So you are saying there are Freshmen and Sophs in HS committing in numbers that are greater than in the past? I know the kid in FL committed to UF as a Soph, but are there others?

I just find it very hard to believe even in Coach May's example that we can say a major D-1 coach was pressured by a parent to make an offer to a kid he wasnt going to offer anyway.

I want to make it clear that this kid was going to get an offer from the school. But they were not ready at that time to make it. They wanted to wait awhile and they wanted the kid to wait. The kid came back and said he was ready to make a decision and wanted to know if they would make an offer. So the offer was made. I do not believe that you can force an offer if they do not want you. They are not going to offer you unless they want you. But I do believe that the offer can come earlier if the situation comes to that. Hey they could have said no we are not ready. Then the kid could have verballed elsewhere or waited.

dawgswood,

What is happening more and more is top players are making a verbal committment before they start their junior year of high school. For the most part this happens during the summer between their soph and junior year, but there have been a few cases of players committing even earlier (as you referred to one at FL) There was also one in Southern Cal and a few more.

IMO This trend of getting early committments from top players, between soph and junior year, is only going to grow unless the NCAA stops it. I really don't see how it is hurting anything, but that doesn't mean the NCAA won't get involved.

Colleges will always try to get an advantage over other colleges if something is legal. This is highly competitive stuff, as we all know!

Just thought of another old saying that fits here... The early bird gets the worm!

One aspect of the trend that concerns me is that some of the kids who are "late bloomers" may feel discouraged that time has passed them by or they are not keeping up with their peers. There are multiple paths to success and these kids should be reminded that many of the best who made it to pro ball were not dominating as juniors or even seniors in high school. Keep at it, boys!

The parents start the ball rolling for early commitments. I doubt that few players (without the help of parents) act alone in the early commitment game. Parents are “peddling” their sons or some may be using intermediaries to act in their behalf. TPM was called out for saying “pressuring the coaches” when in reality this is what is happening. When we say “pressuring” we conjure up the thought of a parent “demanding” the coach offer their son but the pressure is much more subtle than that. They place their sons in position to be a candidate for the early offer. I did it. The coach starts talking to the parent about the player’s talent and in conversation the parent asks “Do you think he could play here?” The coach assures the parent he can. The parent then asks---- “Do you see him as a scholarship player?” The coach assures the parent he is a scholarship player. The parent asks “would you offer him a scholarship and how much?” The coach says “yes” and he could expect a XX% scholarship. All the player and/or the parent have to say is come November it’s a done deal. Early offer --- early commitment. ----- OR ----- the parent/player can field the offer and tell the coach they will let him know and move on to school “B” and mention that son was offered a XX% scholarship at school “A” and they get a counter offer. Pure business and marketing at it’s finest!

I don’t know if it has changed to where colleges publicly announce the early commitments from these players that haven't signed the NLI. I know where my son committed they would not make any public statements until the NLI was signed and back in their possession. That way no one has egg on their face.

If either party changes their mind the other party has no recourse but that doesn’t really destroy the player’s chances at other schools. Understand these are high profile, “no miss”, “blue chippers” that have other offers waiting in the wings. July 1st the process shifts gears and the frequent conversations start. This is the time period for the early commitments to be solidified. Coaches are smart enough to know there are many, many, many players that haven’t put themselves in the early signing mode. I doubt if they want to prematurly commit their money to just a “good” player because there are tons of good players. Colleges can’t afford to loose their ability to recruit the “best” of the “good” players.
Fungo

quote:

One aspect of the trend that concerns me is that some of the kids who are "late bloomers" may feel discouraged that time has passed them by or they are not keeping up with their peers. There are multiple paths to success and these kids should be reminded that many of the best who made it to pro ball were not dominating as juniors or even seniors in high school. Keep at it, boys!

For inspiration, read the following article:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FCI/is_6_60/ai_74090332

quote:

I don’t know if it has changed to where colleges publicly announce the early commitments from these players that haven't signed the NLI. I know where my son committed they would not make any public statements until the NLI was signed and back in their possession. That way no one has egg on their face.

It is my understanding that the NCAA prohibits schools from publicizing the names of recruits before they sign the NLI. Schools cannot even publish the names of recruited walk-ons that they may be bringing in on non-athletic money.

quote:

It is my understanding that the NCAA prohibits schools from publicizing the names of recruits before they sign the NLI.

So in reality this could have a lot of rumors mixed in with the facts. I do know of one instance a few years back where a local player publicly said he had verbally committed to a top SEC school and the school publicly denied he had even been offered!
Fungo

quote:

Originally posted by Coach May:
UNC has three 09 verbals already. And all three are outstanding players , considered three of the best players in NC. Would college coaches like to wait and take more time? Im sure they would. But the landscape has changed. I will say PG has something to do with it. Not everything to do with it. When a kid goes to a PG event and there are so many college coaches from around the country there options can increase dramatically. My son was offered by an SEC school based on what they saw before his Jr HS season. He got an offer from this school based on his performance at EC the summer before his Jr year. If he had not played in this event they would have never known who he was. The local schools are in competition with many more schools now for the top players in their state. The exposure of these events is giving kids more options than ever before.

I agree with you coach, but the pressure ISN'T coming from either the coaches OR the parents, it's external. Given a "perfect" world in recruiting, coaches would desire more time to evaluate players. Given a "perfect" world (as far as the colleges were concerned), coaches worry about giving a verbal commitment that they feel they must honor to a player who may get injured while out of their control.

4-5 years ago, UNC didn't make offers to juniors and waited until the normal recruiting cycle ran it's course. Clemson and South Carolina came in and cherry-picked the state, signing every top junior they could. South Carolina and Clemson compete so heavily in that small state, (even making offers, occasionally, to sophomores) that it's not surprising that the spill-over would move to other states.

The decision by the college to make verbal offers to juniors is a reaction to recruiting pressures. Too many top local players were getting away.

H3, what part of NC? I'll be in Winston-Salem in Jan.