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Hey batter, batter...swing!

L larrythompson500+ posts
Many of you know my 6 year old is playing 7-8 coach pitch this year. I'm not coaching, but I'm helping out when the coach needs me to.

On Saturday, we had a game for which we were the home team. Coach asked me to umpire and I said no problem. We score 3 in the bottom of first inning, so coach is happy guy. In the top of second, other team scores 3 to tie things up. While we are still in field, I hear coach telling the boys to chatter a little. The next thing I know, he has our players yelling "hey batter, batter...swing", as the pitch is coming into the hitter. I yelled timeout and asked him to speak at home plate. He was behind second base directing the fielders. I told him I didn't want to hear his team (my son's team) talking to the other players. I was all for chatter, but constructive chatter not directed toward the other team. The coaches on the other side could hear me, so could a few parents sitting directly behind the backstop. The coach got all upset and said, and I quote, "it is part of the game. Getting into the other kid's heads is what our boys need to learn." I am not kidding, he said that. I was so disturbed, my voice started to raise to a level much louder than I wanted. I told the coach it was not part of the game, and that if his son were at bat and another team did that to his son, he would be the first to complain. I didn't necessarily want a "gotcha moment", but I got one anyway. Gotta love unintended consequences.

Needless to say, we didn't have anymore problems the rest of the day. Not only did the other coaches tell me after the game they appreciated me stepping in, but many of our parents told me they wanted the coach to teach them baseball, not how to get over on another seven year old.
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B Bear1,000+ posts
OMG

There is absolutely now way you can be objective
in that situation.

"hey batter, batter...swing" is as much of
Little League Baseball as Apple Pie and Chevrolet.

In winter clinics, and using a Solo-Hitter, I
actually teach the pre teen hitter how to stay focused while the 'Crowd' (ie. boys and girls around 'the cage') 'harass' the players.
It gets very very loud in the gym, and the 10U love
to make the noise. I have used my 'Concentration' charts and timed the students before and after the excercise.

I wonder when one would over-react if umpiring a girls softball team and not wanting to listen to the chant and singing all game?

Reminds me of the games vs the NY Youth Services ball clubs and all the banging of the drums, and clanging of the cymbals. It is a part of the game.
JC Jeff Connell100+ posts
I despise this stuff. It is not a part of baseball. Neither is the bell clanging or drums or other stuff. Cheer on your team and don't talk to the other team. If it is part of the game, so is throwing at a batter. Do you guys who believe it is part of the game believe a pitcher should hit a batter when the dugout starts this stuff?

I tell my sons who have just started umping LL to stop it immediately. Let them cheer and talk to their teammates but when it starts to the other team, issue the warning immediately.
piaa_umppiaa_ump5,000+ posts
quote:
Coach asked me to umpire and I said no problem. [QUOTE]

[QUOTE]I hear coach telling the boys to chatter a little. The next thing I know, he has our players yelling "hey batter, batter...swing", as the pitch is coming into the hitter.


quote:
The coach got all upset and said, and I quote, "it is part of the game. Getting into the other kid's heads is what our boys need to learn." I am not kidding, he said that.



Number 1.........welcome to our side of the game....beware it can becoming addictive....

Number 2........good call.....chatter all you want as long as it is not directed at the opposing team..

Number 3........Getting into the head of an 11 year old is not part of the game....good call.....


I once had a similar experience.......a short chubby kid came to the plate and the other team....started calling him PIG........I immediately called time.......sternly took off my mask and admonished the other teams dugout that I would not tolerate any more name calling.........

The game was quiet from that moment on.........then as I was walking to my car, the boys mother came up to me.......and said........that PIG was his nickname.....and everyone called him that.......seem these teams were made up of school mates.....

well.......I didnt know that........so I just stopped it.....felt a bit foolish about it but thats the standard I hold.......

good job, by you.....
L larrythompson500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Bear:
OMG

There is absolutely now way you can be objective
in that situation.

"hey batter, batter...swing" is as much of
Little League Baseball as Apple Pie and Chevrolet.

In winter clinics, and using a Solo-Hitter, I
actually teach the pre teen hitter how to stay focused while the 'Crowd' (ie. boys and girls around 'the cage') 'harass' the players.
It gets very very loud in the gym, and the 10U love
to make the noise. I have used my 'Concentration' charts and timed the students before and after the excercise.

I wonder when one would over-react if umpiring a girls softball team and not wanting to listen to the chant and singing all game?

Reminds me of the games vs the NY Youth Services ball clubs and all the banging of the drums, and clanging of the cymbals. It is a part of the game.


Bear...big difference in Mel's clubs chanting from the dugout in Espanol, and 7-8 year olds yelling swing. Big, big difference my friend!
L larrythompson500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Texan:
It was a part of every game back when I played. Every batter learned to ignore it very quickly. Early start on not having rabbit ears.


With all due respect Texan, smoking in the dugout was OK when I played LL 35 years ago as well. Should we advocate that again? We are supposed to learn from our experiences and make things better for the next generation. I don't see how yelling at a batter who is trying to focus on hitting the ball without getting hit by the ball himself is "part of the game"?

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
T Texan1,000+ posts
With all due respect, smoking has proved harmful beyond a shadow of a doubt. A most inappropriate and inaccurate comparison.

I know of absolutely no one who was harmed by "hey batter, batter swing". In fact, it probably helped players learn early to focus and tune out distractions. It wasn't personal, it was part of the chatter. Any batter could hear it at times, it was random.

I'm with TR on this one (wow, is that the third time this year?)Big Grin, political correctness has gone too far. A generation of kids is coming up with a significant percentage who are molly coddled to the point of having difficulty learning and functioning on their own. And the PC philosophy is contributing to this problem.
Last edited by Texan
L larrythompson500+ posts
No argument here on the PC stuff. But how is telling kids not to try and distract the batter PC? Is it not our duty, as adults, to teach the kids how to focus and play baseball the right way? Or is it our goal to help the youngsters develop some real good zingers to use on their pals and opponents? Why is it illegal for a runner on third base to yell time when a pitcher is in his motion? Shouldn't the pitcher not have rabbit ears? C'mon...some of you guys would be telling us how the kid on 3B needs to be drilled the next time he is at the plate. If we teach focus and concentration (and fun) at the younger age groups, then we might not see the "ego" problems we see at the older age groups, agree?

In the greater scheme of things, I would want my 7-8 year old fielders thinking about where the best out would be, or what am I going to do if the ball is hit to me, not worrying about timing swing when the batter is supposed to swing.
T Texan1,000+ posts
Some kids at the plate could get distracted by folks in the stands. Should we ban spectators?

Some kids could get distracted by something going on in the dugout. Should we empty the dugouts & make players stand out of sight if they aren't on the field?

Some kids could get distracted by an airplane flying overhead. No fly zones over LL fields?

Anything gets personal, that is over the line. Chatter? Nope. Part of the game.

Some kids could get their feelings hurt if they strike out. Should we eliminate strike outs? Some kids could get upset if they make an error. Mulligans, anyone? Some kids could have their fragile psyche damaged if they make the third out in the last inning with bases loaded. Perhaps we shouldn't even let kids play this game...

TR, take over. I'm tired of this stuff.
Last edited by Texan
L larrythompson500+ posts
Texan and TR,

This isn't about hurting anyone's feelings. This is about teaching 7-8 year old kids the right and wrong way to cheer and chatter. We hopefully can all agree that the best way to keep kids in the game is to focus on what they and their teammates need to do, correct? And can we agree that this bantering back and forth at the 15-16 or 17-18 level can get out of control and destructive at times, correct? Well now, if we agree to that...can we agree that by teaching our 7-8 year olds not to address the opponent in a negative light, that perhaps that same message will carry them through when they are 17 years old, and therefore more volatile situations may not arise?

I've been very fortunate to coach a lot talented ball players. Some are in the major leagues starring for their teams now. When they played 17-18 ball, they didn't talk to the other team in a negative tone. If they did, they were done. This wasn't PC, it was about keeping them focused on their jobs. I have found that the coaches who think this chatter stuff is a good idea, are the coaches who want to be buddies with the players.

Hey batter, batter...swing/miss/swing/miss
T Texan1,000+ posts
Hey batter is not addressing the opponent in a negative light. Unless one is part of the PC crowd, I guess.

If bantering gets out of hand, the coach has failed. If the coach fails, the blue is there to do his job. There are all types of behavior that can get out of hand - left unchecked. So should we just lock the kids up until they're 21? That would be the ultimate cure for you, wouldn't it, Larry?

I'm not just talking this. I LIVED it. It never harmed me, nor any other player I knew.

So please don't put words in my mouth.

We're not going to agree.
L larrythompson500+ posts
OK gents...one more time.

You are saying it is OK for a bunch of fielders to chant "hey batter, batter...swing", while a player is hitting. OK, I get that. Then tell me the last time you advocated a team you coach do this? Do you have your runners at 3B saying "hey pitcher, pitcher...balk", as they walk down the line during the pitcher's windup?

Better yet, what if the other team was doing it to your players. Would your players like it? What if your players found it distracting, would you intervene? Naw...you guys would stick out the ol' barrel chest and tell your players to suck it up, wouldn't you? Can't have dem rabbit ears, right?

Why aren't more college and pro teams doing this? It is part of the game, right?

If you knew anything about me (son of a mechanic/farmer who grew up poor in central MD), you would realize that PC has never and will never be a part of my life. You seem to refer to PC as anything that is contrary to how it was done in the good ol' days. And I love how Texan talks about the coach stepping in when it gets out of hand. How does the ol' coach know when it is getting out of hand? Coach wouldn't have to "step in" if it hadn't started in the first place.

Sorry guys, I like reading your posts for the most part, and have learned some decent baseball stuff...but your "hard stance" on this particular matter is wrong in my opinion.
JC Jeff Connell100+ posts
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Swing Batter, batter, Swing. Wink
piaa_umppiaa_ump5,000+ posts
quote:
If bantering gets out of hand, the coach has failed. If the coach fails, the blue is there to do his job. There are all types of behavior that can get out of hand - left unchecked. So should we just lock the kids up until they're 21? That would be the ultimate cure for you, wouldn't it, Larry?

I'm not just talking this. I LIVED it. It never harmed me, nor any other player I knew.



Here is why I stop it.......If it gets out of hand the coaches all want to wash their hands of it and leave it to the umpires....

Rarely have I ever seen a coach take any part of letting it go too far or any part of stopping it.....

When it has gotten out of hand the universal complaint is usually " the umpires should have taken care of it".........so I do...

sooner rather than later.....

If Im responsible, then Im doing it on my timetable....which is now...

Just my .02
Last edited by piaa_ump
JC Jeff Connell100+ posts
You have got to be kidding. That was funny. One of our co-posters suggested it after reading the posts. The problem is when things start off as just part of it, they turn into something more. If an adult would get upset that someone wrote that, how do you think an 8U batter feels when people are hollering at him and he strikes out. TRHit, get real. If it got you upset, question what it does to kids.
TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
Jeff

I am always real sir

I would suggest you worry about your kids and I, mine-- Fair enough?

There we go with the touchy feely stuff-0--how an 8U batter feels ---get real it has to happen sooner or later

Look I am from the old school---stop the coddling stuff--we are not developing strong people--we are developing weak willed kids who even after they leave the nest keep looking for help

What if we return to the old days when LL players found out if they made it when they saw the player list in the corner drug store and then picked up their uniform or went home-- traumatic ---tough-- that is the way it was and I think we all survived
JC Jeff Connell100+ posts
I will agree with you that is why we play tournament. If you start that stuff, our pitchers know to bean your next batter. If you cry, they laugh. When I umpire I call by the rules. You talk to the other team, I tell you to be quiet. That is what the rules say. As a coach, I am called to enforce them. I definitely am not PC as you may have alluded to. I believe in playing it the right way. Hey batter batter is for losers and girls softball.
Chatter is great but the other is bush league and bush league by a coach, player, or fan gets your batter hit, as hard as my pitcher can throw it.
Last edited by Jeff Connell
N ncball100+ posts
Jeff- Are you sh@#$ing me? What are you going to do- find the biggest, baddest 8 year old you have to bean the next guy? You are absolutely delusional and truly have no clue on any of this stuff. You are absolutelu what is wrong in youth baseball.

I tried to stay away from your idiotic comments but this one pushed me over the edge. Mark my words- 75% of your team will not play after 12 years old and it will be your fault. Do yourself and your kids a favor and get out now before you screw them up even more than you already have.
JC Jeff Connell100+ posts
I did not say I tell them to do so and was not talking 8 year old ball. My bad, I was talking older youth and now high school.
I get amused that you guys want them to be able to talk smack and the pitcher not retaliate. Getting hit is part of the game. I will agree, not at 8 but it is not far from that they learn how to retaliate.

To NCBall, it is funny that you say that I will ruin players. I have had 18 kids drafted that I have coached. 3 are pitching in the majors right now. I saw one of them plunk a batter last week and I am sure that it was retaliation.

I started coaching tournament ball when my oldest was 8 and that was 9 years ago. Every player on that team is still playing high school ball and 5 will probably be drafted in the next 3 years. They were taught baseball. Over the years, they have learned that if someone was going to do something bush league, you made them pay. I or no one I have coached with has ever told a pitcher to hit a batter. But I would never tell a pitcher not to hit one if he needed to. As you guys have said, that is old school baseball.

I will tell my 8 year old that the plate is his and that he has to throw hard. If he hits someone, that is part of baseball. I would never tell him to throw at another 8 year old.

I'm what is wrong with baseball. You are saying it is okay for someone to let or encourage their players to ridicule the other team and pitchers and yet someone who says stand your ground is wrong. Get real.
T Texan1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Jeff Connell:
You are saying it is okay for someone to let or encourage their players to ridicule the other team and pitchers and yet someone who says stand your ground is wrong. Get real.

I don't know what it takes to get this through some peoples' heads. "Hey batter" is not ridiculing anyone. It is by no means personal. For crying out loud...

And it goes away as they get older, so don't worry about having to plunk a HS player because his team was doing "hey batter".

Dealing with distractions is a part of the game at any age.

Chatter is part of the game at the younger ages. At least it was before the PC crowd came along.
L larrythompson500+ posts
Hey batter...you are right, nothing wrong with that. But timing the swing when the 8 year old mind is trying to decide whether to swing or not...why is that a good idea?

I want one of you guys (TR or Texan) to tell Tiger he needs to get rabbit ears when the camera click goes off at the top of his backswing. Thanks for bringing that one up Metropop. Nice thinking! I guess Tiger won't reach his potential because PC found its way into his life?

TR...when you talk about developing strong people, don't you mean self-advocates? I mean the way I hear you tell it, it is all about what I want to do, and the heck with the other guy. Isn't developing a strong 8 year old teaching him that he can win on his own merits, and not have to distract or foil with his opponent? Nah...I'm starting to see the picture here. What is good for me, should be good for everybody...cause I'm happy. Is self-advocacy what you are about, cause if it is, then you sir have been overcome by PC. PC, the way I think of it, is telling everyone they are great whether they are or not. And to take it a step further, it is making someone believe that what they do is the most important thing in the world...and be**** all others who don't agree.

Thanks for clearing that up for me!

Jeff...nice resume, but I would appreciate it if you wouldn't try to bait on my thread. Stick to the issue at hand please.
F 3FingeredGlove1,000+ posts
The following is from the 2008 Rules Instruction Manual of Little League. It includes some recommendations relevant to this thread. Note that the comments are not rules, but rather practical suggestions.

4.06 -- No manager, coach or player, shall at any time, whether from the bench or the playing field or elsewhere -
(1) incite, or try to incite, by word or sign, a demonstration by spectators;
INSTRUCTORS COMMENTS: This includes firing up the crowd against the umpires or opposing team. The penalty is ejection from the game.

(2) use language which will in any manner refer to or reflect upon opposing players, manager, coach, an umpire or spectators;
INSTRUCTORS COMMENTS: Language from anyone that reflects badly upon opposing players, manager, coach, an umpire or spectators. Penalty is ejection.
Most teams, particularly infielders, chatter (“Hey, batter, batter”) when the ball is being delivered. This is usually acceptable, and has not caused any problems in local leagues. Do not, however, allow any player, especially the catcher, to yell “Swing” at the batter when the ball is being delivered.
Umpires should be alert to a manager or coaches’ action toward players of his/her own team as well. If the behavior warrants the adult’s removal, do so.
L LOW337100+ posts
LT said:
I want one of you guys (TR or Texan) to tell Tiger he needs to get rabbit ears when the camera click goes off at the top of his backswing.

Larry,
Golfers would not mind any noise if crowd noise was part of the game. Which it is not. Not a good comparison.

Jeff said:
I or no one I have coached with has ever told a pitcher to hit a batter. But I would never tell a pitcher not to hit one if he needed to.

Jeff,
Completely insane. I am very qualified to speak on this subject. Baseball has been my only job my whole life....Not discouraging KIDS from throwing at hitters is crazy. They don't know where the ball is going. Someone could get hit in the face/head and be seriously hurt. There is no part of throwing at guys in any organized baseball unless it is PROFESSIONAL BASEBALL.
There they throw at guys to protect their own. To protect the way the game is to be played. To keep opposing team from being disrespectful from showing other players up. .....has no part in the game of which you speak......remember Wichita State/Evansville????....the kid could have been killed!!!!!.....as in dead......Some people are unreal.......

As far as the chatter thing.....come on.....if it's not personal let them play...they are just having fun.....as said before....much ado about nothing......

I would be more concerned about all of the IGNORANT things I've heard Little League coaches say/teach Little League players......and you guys are worried about a KID SAYING TO ANOTHER KID...."hey batter batter..".....and OH MY GOD....HE JUST TOLD LITTLE JOHNNY TO SWING.....come on.....teach them how to run cuts/relays....rundowns.....bunt defense.....PLAY CATCH.....so men like Tex don't have to RETEACH THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!........
Last edited by LOW337
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