High Follow

The PG "Rankings" start at the "follow" level which is the lowest rank, followed next by "high follow" and then top 1000. Higher than that are top 500 and then, I think that those go deeper as to rank in the players state and rank by position-ie- pitchers.

These rankings are subjective to be sure. I'm not sure what criteria PG uses in assigning them. I see this topic crop up from time to time and they do generate a range of opinions. Some claim they are unimportant while others want to pick and choose their sports and even events they participate in so as to not hurt their ranking...

Colleges may look at them and throw letters and questionaires out to those who are ranked. I wouldn't get too concerned one way or another about them. Just have your son keep working hard to be the best he can be and let the chips fall where they may...

quote:

Originally posted by Elroy:
I wouldn't get too concerned one way or another about them. Just have your son keep working hard to be the best he can be and let the chips fall where they may...

Excellent advice.

While ratings certainly help players get on the radar, scouts and recruiters base their decisions on what THEY see.

quote:

While ratings certainly help players get on the radar, scouts and recruiters base their decisions on what THEY see.

So true, however, unless your coach is active in helping his players, at least a scout or recruiter can draw upon these rankings to see for themselves who they should be looking at for starters. I think it is apparent that PG is the pinnacle of these rankings. When you see other organizations out their doing rankings too, a majority of the same kids pop up on their rankings as well and I dont just mean the top, top players.

thanks elroy good stuff

funny how everyone always says dont worry just keep working hard and dont get concerned...i think it goes without saying you should always work hard and enjoy the game.

Sometimes people are just asking a general info question and not always thinking they are ready to get drafted

whits23:

If you thought that my emphasis of Elroy's point was an insinuation that you were motivated to pose your question for any reason other than your stated one, you're mistaken. I took it for exactly what it was; a genuine request for the sort of insight and perspective that Elroy provided in his first paragraph. I, therefore, apologize if you took it the way you suggested and felt it offensive.

While one would hope that it would "go without saying" that players shouldn't worry about ratings/rankings and keep working hard, the fact is that we still get posts all the time from parents who are expressing some level of concern over how their son is rated/ranked (unlike yours). My post (like many of mine) was aimed not at you; but, at the many people who read but rarely post (especially new ones to the site). Meanwhile, as soon as we see a cessation of posts from parents concerned about rankings, I'll consider it a topic that "goes without saying."

i understand completely...its great that you take the time to respond

Whits23- let me add to Prepster's with the following. The majority of players who are in PG files and have played in their events or in their showcases are not in the rankings at all, not even with a follow designation. The high follow ranking is a good thing and means that you aren't quite a top 1000 yet but are good enough to be highly followed. So you and your son should be proud of the high follow ranking!

Thanks very much, whits23.

Best of luck to your son! Keep us posted on his progress.

thanks..he has had some unofficial visits that he was invited to but he also has been battling some football issues and needs to fully recover.

Are the follow, high follow etc for each grade class or overall? I am not as worried about my kid i am just intrigued about the process of ranking kids. I am sure there are PG guys at events putting in their rankings but they may not see the same guys to compare to etc. Sort of like the hot stove league..something to talk about in the off season.

How do you see that ranking? Is that part of a higher level service? (I just have the $60 / year service).


Just curious -

i was forwarded a copy of it..from a person with premium service. I wonder how many colleges use tools like that to search out players?

@baseballmomandCEP,
Yes, the rankings are available only to Premium and Scout level subscribers.

@Whits23,
First, congratulations to your son and good luck this season. What is his grad year?

It is definitely a good thing and will get his name out. As Prepster has said,"ratings certainly help players get on the radar, scouts and recruiters base their decisions on what THEY see.'

I would suspect that a lot of college coaches are subscribers to the PG service. Case in point is one of the coaches' handout that my son was given during one of his visits has his Perfect Game Profile Pic on it!

I would say that the rank my son got from PG and getting into one of their list ( He has remained in the same list after his only PG showcase 2 years ago as a sophomore in 2009 ) certainly helped in our current situation. He has since participated in numerous PG events in and out of state. As other posters have said in this site, it is only a part of the equation.

With regards to what are the exact number of players in each graduating class belonging in Top 500, Top 1000, High Follow and Follow list, PGStaff would probably get those numbers easily.

Just grateful that my son may have the chance to get a good education and play ball while learning the game of life!

"With regards to what are the exact number of players in each graduating class belonging in Top 500, Top 1000, High Follow and Follow list, PGStaff would probably get those numbers easily."

Jerry can probably speak to this, but here's my understanding.

Not so long ago, PG would expand its rankings as it became aware of more and more talented players in each respective class year. By draft time, the rankings went beyond 2,000 players.

A year or two ago, PG did away with specific numeric rankings beyond the top 500. I would guess this was partly to relieve them of the chore of trying to keep up with who should be # 649 vs. who should be # 782. But it also represents recognition that rankings with specific numbers present an appearance of precision that does not reflect the reality of the vagaries of evaluations.

If you think of all the talent out there like a bell curve, then at the very upper reaches, determining who's # 1 vs. # 50 might be a reasonable task to undertake. After all, the top HS draft pick gets a whole heckuva lot more money than the 50th HS draft pick.

But as you get further down the list, the number of players all piled up on one point on the curve gets larger and larger, and trying to differentiate among them is probably a fool's errand. Not to mention, if you asked 100 different scouts to rank those guys, you'd get 100 different sets of results.

My understanding is that the "Top 1,000", "High Follow" and "Follow" lists are meant to reflect that certain players fall in the 501-1000, 1001-1500, or 1501-2000 cohorts, respectively. In other words, it's the same top 2,000 ranking system, just expressed more in terms of broad groupings than specific numeric rankings.

wow good input..still though it is based on class..IE if my son is 2014 high follow he is high follow for 2014 and not all underclassmen...once again i am not a worried about him as an individual just how the rankings are based...ty

Midlo that was a great explanation.

Whits23, I may be wrong but right now your son's postion in his ranking (or for whatever terminology they use) is for his HS grad year, when 2014 comes he might be ranked among all eligible for the 2014 draft.
If that is wrong or I misunderstood I apologize.

Your question was a good one, I didn't take it that you were concerned for any other reason than what high follow meant. As always, just encourage your son to keep working hard in and out of the classroom.

No that is what i was asking..thanks

quote:

Originally posted by whits23:
No that is what i was asking..thanks

In your first post you asked about rating, but I think as the others maybe did as well, you meant ranking.
Ranking would be where he falls among his peers on a national level on some lists and later maybe state lists (numerically). Rating would be determined by his skill level where he might best fit into a college situation(D1,D2,etc) and pro.

Midlo,

That was a very good explanation and TPM added some accurate info too.

There is a top 500 that includes more than 500 in the final grad class (2012, this year). Several players will be ranked 500.

Then there is a list of top 1,000 players that can be more than 1,000. This is because of the very fine line between many players that Midlo explained very well.

Then there is a high follow list. This list has players that are considered possible top 1,000 or higher players. Sometimes they are players we haven't seen enough to evaluate accurately. Sometimes this list includes kids that project well or we think could be better than what we have seen.

Then there is a follow list which includes kids that have shown us something that causes interest in seeing more. It is not unusual for high follow and follow kids to become good draft picks or high level DI type players. Often these players end up being ranked very well before they're done. The rankings change often as we see more players or see players more often.

Because of personal experience of seeing many cases of amazing improvement, we could add another category that would include most all players. Don't know what we would call it... Could Be's?

I never liked the words Wannabe. If you're not a wannabe you can't be a could be.

Over the years we have proven to be very accurate. That said, we have also been wrong many times. These rankings can be helpful if a player is ranked, but they don't make or break any player. The best players (ranked or unranked) are stubborn and don't allow others to dictate their future. I actually like it when a player we didn't rank proves us wrong. Of course, I also like it when we are proven right.

Bottom line... Anyone who has been around long enough has seen some surprisingly amazing acomplishments.

PG staff..good info..are kids every downgraded or mostly upgraded?

whits,

The rankings change a lot over time as we see more and more. Players often move up and/or down.

Is it usually based on what 1 person may see. In other words if i am on PG staff and i am at east cobb and see a player and think..hmm he is a follow at best and look and see someone else had him rated a top 1000 what is the procedure...can you change a guy based on a game or a whole event? I know at a lot of events you may or may not be seen by the same people at the same venue.

quote:

Originally posted by whits23:
Is it usually based on what 1 person may see. In other words if i am on PG staff and i am at east cobb and see a player and think..hmm he is a follow at best and look and see someone else had him rated a top 1000 what is the procedure...can you change a guy based on a game or a whole event? I know at a lot of events you may or may not be seen by the same people at the same venue.

Very interesting question. I am interested to hear the answer to these. I guess you also need some luck to get seen at the right moment by the right people.

Like I said earlier, My son attended only one PG showcase in 2009 as a soph and had some good PG tourneys ( AZ and East Cobb) and one great one where he helped his team to a 2nd place finish and one of leaders of the event in RBIs and made some nice plays on the infield this past Summer but this did not affect his ranking. It's either he was not seen or he just did not show enough improvement from 2 years ago to change his ranking.

I know there is always suppose to have a PG scout/scorer in every game who always take notes on every player and will always be on the database and available to all college coaches and pro scouts. It may also depend on how much notes was written. I understand there are thousands of players so we cannot expect all players to have a detailed reports all the time.

We as a family have learned to just appreciate all the blessings/accolades that come, take your lumps and just take care of the things we can control.

i am guessing they get review from the showcase camps? i know we have not done those yet. Last year my son played 18u and 16u PG at east cobb but did not do 15u. I think this year he is playing 17u mainly if he is healthy enough. That is more important than anything.

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by whits23:
Is it usually based on what 1 person may see. In other words if i am on PG staff and i am at east cobb and see a player and think..hmm he is a follow at best and look and see someone else had him rated a top 1000 what is the procedure...can you change a guy based on a game or a whole event? I know at a lot of events you may or may not be seen by the same people at the same venue.


Very interesting question. I am interested to hear the answer to these. I guess you also need some luck to get seen at the right moment by the right people.

Like I said earlier, My son attended only one PG showcase in 2009 as a soph and had some good PG tourneys ( AZ and East Cobb) and one great one where he helped his team to a 2nd place finish and one of leaders of the event in RBIs and made some nice plays on the infield this past Summer but this did not affect his ranking. It's either he was not seen or he just did not show enough improvement from 2 years ago to change his ranking.

I know there is always suppose to have a PG scout/scorer in every game who always take notes on every player and will always be on the database and available to all college coaches and pro scouts. It may also depend on how much notes was written. I understand there are thousands of players so we cannot expect all players to have a detailed reports all the time.

We as a family have learned to just appreciate all the blessings/accolades that come, take your lumps and just take care of the things we can control.

"A diamond is just a chunk of coal that made good under pressure."

Perhaps the explanations have been unclear, but now I'm even getting confused. Do people want to know how we go about it or do they want to tell us how we go about doing it?

We simply rank players based on what we believe. Sometimes we are wrong. There is nothing scientific about any of it. Also we very seldom have any personal favoritism, interest or relationship with the players who are ranked. We never care about what someone else thinks or how they might rank a player.

We are always the first to rank players in any grad class and most every list that comes out later has pretty much the same players listed. The order is usually not exactly the same, but its mostly the same players in a bit different order. Knowing we are wrong at times, that has always seemed unusual to us. Then again, you either have to actually see the players or depend on someone who has seen them. In our case we actually do see most all of the top guys each year, often we see them many times. We don't rely on anyone else.

PG..not sure how the other stuff got lumped onto my question. I simply asked if you or another person is doing a PG event and see a player can or do you ever change ranking or rating based on what you see in one game..IE overule another co=workers ratings for better or worse...and if so even in the same calander year?

I also asked to the follow..high follow etc only come from tournaments or also the showcase IE workouts PG puts on. I was not commenting on whether PG is the first or only place to rank/rate players or most accurate..I think we all know the PG reputation is good

Forgot to add to the story that during one my son's PG tournament games, the PG scorer was one of baseball coaches of one of the top JC in the state and saw him play and eventually gave us an offer after he saw him again at the AZ senior Fall Classic. You just never know who is watching and really shows someone someplace looks at a player for what he thinks he can bring to the table more than anything else.

Because of this interest, they are still in our radar.

thanks..i think we all have those stories but i was asking specific questions about they system to satisfy my own curiosity not for any other reason.

quote:

Originally posted by whits23:
thanks..i think we all have those stories but i was asking specific questions about they system to satisfy my own curiosity not for any other reason.

Like PGstaff said, it is not an exact science but hopefully he can explain it to you better. Good luck to your son next year.

quote:

Originally posted by whits23:
thanks..i think we all have those stories but i was asking specific questions about they system to satisfy my own curiosity not for any other reason.

Your continue questions have become a bit complicated even with the great explanations, even by PG. That's ok, you can keep asking, but perhaps in all of this one thing was left out that is my perception. Your son's ranking will be what it is until he gets a rating, unless he is outstanding. Keep in mind that is my opinion, not a given.

I looked back and saw that your son @15 has played with older players, in one post you stated that it was to get the experience. I understand your point on that and now understand the questions that you have asked.

However, IMO, experience never will make a players ranking or his rating higher, only his skills will. My understanding is that, in all of this rating and ranking stuff, is that better games do not always translate into better skills. One of the reasons why, as an example that Ryanrods son had a terrific game but he didn't move up in the rankings. His skill set, most likely has remained the same and that skill set is based upon future projection, for scouting purposes. That's not a knock, that is just the way I perceive it.

Kind of reminds me of a player that I remember that played up for many years, he did very well when he returned with his peer group but by the time he reached peak recruiting, due to his position, he had a very hard time finding a place to call home, because his future skill potential, or rating. An 8 is an 8, he played his way onto a top D1 program, he still remained average at his position, and most importantly, he never hit for power. That is not a knock on an 8, but keep in mind that in most cases ratings are on FUTURE potential. And that doesn't mean that as a player grows and matures he is able to improve his skills, over a long periokd of time.

That's why players that are not considered draft prospects at one point in their lifes do get drafted.

I do beleive that your son is a catcher? What I would do at this time, is not worry so much about rankings, high follow, etc. and what it all might mean but to concentrate on improving skills, so that when the time comes he will just not be "average", but possibly well above. This ranking and rating stuff is what it is, work on the stuff that you can control, get in front of people that have interests that will be a good fit for college.

I understand that people have reasons for asking questions, even just for educational purposes to understand what all of this ranking, rating stuff is all about. I might get heat for this, but my suggestion is that it's just too early at this point in your son's career to worry about it.

Hope that this helps.

thanks..i truly dont care that much about my sons career or if he even has one but here is an example of what i was asking..I saw a kid who was a top 500 easy but had a bad outing in an event . So would the person watching that even downgrade him
automatically to a high follow instead of a top 500 or would he contact the person who ranked him at top 500 and say "why did you have him that high"..Even if i did not have a kid i would be curious as to these types of things as years ago i was affiliated with a wooden bat league and we had to look at kids, rank thme (in house only or withing the league) We used a similar system but was not nation wide. So as a baseball enthusiast with a curiosity for things i asked a simple question about ALL KIDS and how ranking or ratings can or do change for all kids..NOT MINE. when you say its to young in my kids career i am not asking about him. I also have coached travel ball for years and many of the kids i coached are now in their senior or junior years. A kid who is a 2014 already signed with a major program (verbally) so i have interest in kids in many states NOT My OWN. I dont understand why a person cant ask a question about a system without people jumping on them or assuming its all about their kid. I would rather mine go to a great school and get a good education than worry about playing baseball. But i wont stop him from it either if and when the time comes. He has had some unofficial invites from schools and loved the process. My only comment was They dont Matter your 14 so we get it. I wont ask any more questions that can be interpreted as wanting info about MY son. thanks for my rant space..it did me well '*

However, IMO, experience never will make a players ranking or his rating higher,
only his skills will. My understanding is that, in all of this rating and
ranking stuff, is that better games do not always translate into better skills.
One of the reasons why, as an example that Ryanrods son had a terrific game but
he didn't move up in the rankings. His skill set, most likely has remained the
same and that skill set is based upon future projection, for scouting purposes.
That's not a knock, that is just the way I perceive it.


cant let the above go without responding. WHO SAID PLAYING WITH OLDER KIDS WOULD GET A BETTER RATING? i NEVER DID say that DID I? WHY WOULD THAT EVEN ENTER YOUR MIND? When you live in an area where teams travel all over the country to play WHY WOULD U NOT PLAY WITH ALL THE AGES THAT COME? I do however think it makes you better to face 18yr old pitching vs 14 or 15yr old in events as that is what you face in high school. And of course it would be better to throw a no hitter vs a top ranked 18u team than a 15yr old team are u kidding? Or hit a 300ft home run off a 88mph lefty than 75mph lefty dont u think? There is a chance my kid wont even play baseball this year and that is fine..I still have questions from time to time that have nothing to do with him if that is ok

Boy am i glad i got back from vaction to catch up on reading. I understand all post pretty much as i deal with this stuff from time to time. People do want to understand the process and others want to offer their views or opinions. It is ok to ask questions but beware most will respond in a way that have nothing to do with your questions and offer advice. It is the nature of message boards in general. We all want to feel relevant in some way including me. I will not say play hard and have fun its obvious you have done that.

I will say take what you need from the thread and discard the rest. Good luck and God bless.

quote:

Originally posted by whits23:
PG..not sure how the other stuff got lumped onto my question. I simply asked if you or another person is doing a PG event and see a player can or do you ever change ranking or rating based on what you see in one game..IE overule another co=workers ratings for better or worse...and if so even in the same calander year?

I also asked to the follow..high follow etc only come from tournaments or also the showcase IE workouts PG puts on. I was not commenting on whether PG is the first or only place to rank/rate players or most accurate..I think we all know the PG reputation is good

I will caveat this in that I have never talked to PG or anyone there about this but based on my experience with my son and his friends who are all college freshmen this year.

For the first part of your question I think you are assuming that there is someone is following every player in their database after every event. I don’t think this is practical. From my experience they tend to develop an idea of the players ability over a longer period than a single game or event so they develop an idea on a players overall position in his graduation year pool of players 1-1,000, High Follow, etc, this all leads up to his graduation year. These rankings are evolving over 2-3 years.

First the number they put in the database for a ranking is based on their “combine type” events. Each player is ranked at each event with their numbering system X.X-Y.Y. When a player attends a tournament they may or may not be seen by one of their scouts and additional comments are sometimes put in the blogs that are linked to the player. Based on this they get an idea on where he fits in the overall graduating class. If a player goes to another combine they will give him another X.X rating that is added in to the player’s history. All of this builds up to the graduating class ranking 1-1000, etc, not a specific X.X or Y.Y ranking.

Now if a player has a bad game at a PG event the odds are he will not even be noticed by anyone so I don’t think a scout is going to think, “jee that kid really su cked, lets go see if he was an 8.5 and drop him to a 6”. What tends to happen is kids have great games and someone notices and adds his name into the blog, so I think there is a natural tendency for players to move up the scale by performance and they tend to push the players who don’t develop down by default not by a specific notation or addition to their database. So in summary by the time a player gets to his graduating year he is ranked on his “body of work” not any one specific event.

I know kids are are in the PG data base who have never been to a PG event, most of these are high level draft prospects of course so they would be picked up from USA baseball national team list, Area Code, etc.

I think that if one is to understand the process, a bad game, or even a good one, doesn't mean that someone is going to fall down or go up.

I would imagine that over a period of time, by the time the player reaches his draft year, it will sort itself out.

However, what I was trying to get across, I do beleive it is skills that make the determination more than anything else.

I agree with TPM...

I agree with Napoleon..

was wondering, my son got scored at PG and in comments "interresting young catcher to follow", does this mean he might make the top 500 or thousand rankings? thanks in advance

only in basketball..so far

Per @TheRecruitScoop, 8th grade (2016) guard NyRhique Smith will attend the Seton Hall-UConn game tomorrow. #shbb

quote:

Originally posted by whits23:
only in basketball..so far

Per @TheRecruitScoop, 8th grade (2016) guard NyRhique Smith will attend the Seton Hall-UConn game tomorrow. #shbb