"Wild pitch by Burroto. Burroto in to cover home...um...well..nevermind."
Who is that scenario fair to, Anthony, his teammates, his coaches, anyone? It isn't even fair to the other team. As I've said, the kid learned how to reach his potential before he got to high school. If 80% of the kids in his school do that, the school will be a much better place.
Dad04,
Somewhere you have the idea that I don't understand the challenges this player has faced for his entire life in baseball. I do. So far you've highlighted that this was the player "WITH NO FREAKING LEGS!!" who was cut and now you draw a picture of a scenario he could face. When will you finish? I feel I know all I need to about you and your perspective already. Can't you just be happy that you and the kid's coach are on the same page? I stated that I respected the opinions of people who agree with the coach, including yours. I just don't see things the same way.
MM
Somewhere you have the idea that I don't understand the challenges this player has faced for his entire life in baseball. I do. So far you've highlighted that this was the player "WITH NO FREAKING LEGS!!" who was cut and now you draw a picture of a scenario he could face. When will you finish? I feel I know all I need to about you and your perspective already. Can't you just be happy that you and the kid's coach are on the same page? I stated that I respected the opinions of people who agree with the coach, including yours. I just don't see things the same way.
MM
quote:Originally posted by Baseballdad1228:
I just don't see things the same way.
MM
I don't either. I'm amazed that some think they're going to teach the kid who grew up WITH NO FREAKING LEGS some lesson about life. I think it would be the other way around.
quote:I don't either. I'm amazed that some think they're going to teach the kid who grew up WITH NO FREAKING LEGS some lesson about life.
I don't know that there is a lesson that needs to be taught. Other than that this kid (it seems) was given an equal chance to make the team just like every other kid. He was not in the top _____ and so he got cut. As did something like 23 other kids? But their names aren't in the newspaper..
Too me, it all seems on the up and up. Best Ball players should make the competitive HS team. If Anthony loves the game there are other avenues he can pursue, such as the local rec ball leagues. Its all about playing the game, does not have too be on the HS team to be meaningful. The ball is back in Anthonys court to come back next year and tryout again. Hope he makes it based on his ability to outplay other players trying out. Nobody should want something they did not earn at the expense of someone else that did earn it, but did not get it because of the politics. Need to look at both sides of the coin.
As long as the kid got an equal chance isn't that enough. He shouldn't get special treatment. Please don't take this wrong. Maybe the coach didn't see upside since the kid can't strenghthen his legs for increased leg drive while there was a kid kept on JV the coach saw with upsside.
Didn't someone post the kid's uncle is the sportswriter who wrote the story? So how accurate is the judgement on his ability? We don't know about control and command. I'll bet he's hit 80 on a gun but cruises in the upper 70's. What level school is this? Large? Small? At 80 he would be the slowest pitcher on my son's varsity team.
I would have kept the kid on JV one more year since he's s soph as long as there was a uniform for him. Then at the end of the season I would have an honest talk about his future prospects. He does get to play summer ball.
Didn't someone post the kid's uncle is the sportswriter who wrote the story? So how accurate is the judgement on his ability? We don't know about control and command. I'll bet he's hit 80 on a gun but cruises in the upper 70's. What level school is this? Large? Small? At 80 he would be the slowest pitcher on my son's varsity team.
I would have kept the kid on JV one more year since he's s soph as long as there was a uniform for him. Then at the end of the season I would have an honest talk about his future prospects. He does get to play summer ball.
quote:RJM posted: What level school is this? Large? Small? At 80 he would be the slowest pitcher on my son's varsity team.
Dr. Phillips HS is at the top level 6A, and participates in routinely in state tournaments in several sports, boys and girls. the school has several D1 signees in several sports a year, boys and girls.
Alums include Johnny Damon, Danny Miceli and AJ Pierzynski, along with numerous minor leaguers, NBA and NFL players. The school is 25 years old. Take a look at the alumni link.
http://www.dpathletics.net/sport.asp?sid=18
In life, we don't award points for the highest riser. Just because someone came from the ghetto and is now in college, does not entitle that person to anymore latitude than the son/daughter of two nobel prize winners when handing out academic merit scholarships.
Is it admirable? yes. Does it mean you get to go to the head of the line? No.
Once again, some people are confusing compassion with pity. Hard work doesn't earn handouts. Hard work offers the opportunity to put yourself in a position to compete for the job. Then you have to win it. It doesn't matter from how far down you had to climb the mountain, the ones closest to the summit are the winners. Life is not graded on a curve.
On top of that, it is a slam to the side of the head of a person like Jim Abbott to surmise that he got where he was out of compassion. He competed and won the job on nothing but merit. To claim anything else is a serious revision of history to support a failed argument.
Is it admirable? yes. Does it mean you get to go to the head of the line? No.
Once again, some people are confusing compassion with pity. Hard work doesn't earn handouts. Hard work offers the opportunity to put yourself in a position to compete for the job. Then you have to win it. It doesn't matter from how far down you had to climb the mountain, the ones closest to the summit are the winners. Life is not graded on a curve.
On top of that, it is a slam to the side of the head of a person like Jim Abbott to surmise that he got where he was out of compassion. He competed and won the job on nothing but merit. To claim anything else is a serious revision of history to support a failed argument.
This debate has less to do with Anthony not having any legs than what approach a high school program should take regarding their goals for a team. The coach, the athletic director, the principle and the school directors have the authority to set those goals and the methods by which they should achieve them. Having set those methods, they now have the obligation to fairly set in motion establishing a group of players that represent those goals, whether they achieve them or not is secondary to the process.
It is obvious that DPHS holds the concept of “winning” in high regard, and rightly so. If you go to their official high school website http://www.dpathletics.net/index.asp you will find a professionally designed “collegiate style” format. I counted thirty different teams being fielded. There is an impressive list of somewhere around two hundred alumni that have gone on to play either collegiate sports or professional. The school’s first principle played football under General Neyland of the University of Tennessee and is credited with making it a virtual “athletic powerhouse almost immediately after its doors were opened.” The facilities are better than many colleges and universities. Baseball America named the baseball complex one of the top facilities in the country. One can hardly be surprised that roster spots on any of these teams are highly coveted.
The local community or taxpayers also have a right to make known the kind of values, morals and ethics it wants taught in the high school. Can a program that places winning at such a high standard have room for players like an Anthony Burruto? One who may be “on the bubble” regarding physical attributes necessary to compete but who possesses an unusually obvious (no legged baseball pitcher) but equal or greater potential to represent the competitive spirit of the school. Is it reasonable to expect a coach to be absolutely unaffected by a players determination, demeanor, hustle, over achievement, or inspirational ability to name a few? The selection of a roster by a coach from a pool of players is best done with the total circumstances in mind and not a strict list of physical attributes of players that will help the team win. Obviously Coach Bradley chose the twenty players he felt gave him the most chance of winning or perhaps he had team chemistry in mind. And it was his right to do so. If that is what the community wants as represented by the school administration then that is what they should get. The history of this school and its quest for athletic dominance suggests no one should be surprised that Anthony was cut. As long as there is no room in a program for extraordinary achievement of a unique kind then you will be completely and proudly satisfied with just winning.
It is obvious that DPHS holds the concept of “winning” in high regard, and rightly so. If you go to their official high school website http://www.dpathletics.net/index.asp you will find a professionally designed “collegiate style” format. I counted thirty different teams being fielded. There is an impressive list of somewhere around two hundred alumni that have gone on to play either collegiate sports or professional. The school’s first principle played football under General Neyland of the University of Tennessee and is credited with making it a virtual “athletic powerhouse almost immediately after its doors were opened.” The facilities are better than many colleges and universities. Baseball America named the baseball complex one of the top facilities in the country. One can hardly be surprised that roster spots on any of these teams are highly coveted.
The local community or taxpayers also have a right to make known the kind of values, morals and ethics it wants taught in the high school. Can a program that places winning at such a high standard have room for players like an Anthony Burruto? One who may be “on the bubble” regarding physical attributes necessary to compete but who possesses an unusually obvious (no legged baseball pitcher) but equal or greater potential to represent the competitive spirit of the school. Is it reasonable to expect a coach to be absolutely unaffected by a players determination, demeanor, hustle, over achievement, or inspirational ability to name a few? The selection of a roster by a coach from a pool of players is best done with the total circumstances in mind and not a strict list of physical attributes of players that will help the team win. Obviously Coach Bradley chose the twenty players he felt gave him the most chance of winning or perhaps he had team chemistry in mind. And it was his right to do so. If that is what the community wants as represented by the school administration then that is what they should get. The history of this school and its quest for athletic dominance suggests no one should be surprised that Anthony was cut. As long as there is no room in a program for extraordinary achievement of a unique kind then you will be completely and proudly satisfied with just winning.
quote:PA Dino posted: Is it reasonable to expect a coach to be absolutely unaffected by a players determination, demeanor, hustle, over achievement, or inspirational ability to name a few?
How do you know Coach Bradley was unaffected by Anthony's qualities? To say so is just as irrespionsible as calling for his firing, and that of the AD and "principal" from a keyboard in NJ. I seriously doubt anyone wanted Anthony to be sucessful more than Coach Bradley.
I am going to picket some school when the swim coach cuts some kid with no arms. Do you people read what you write? Stick a fork in me. I am done.
Read it again.......it is a rhetorical question whose obvious answer you missed. Coach Bradley could not be unaffected.
quote:Is it reasonable to expect a coach to be absolutely unaffected by a players determination, demeanor, hustle, over achievement, or inspirational ability to name a few?
Of course he was affected. I'm just as sure Anthony wasn't the only kid cut that worked at making the team. To suggest otherwise is naive. I am really done now.
My favorite baseball moment involved a farm league player throwing intentionally to the wrong base so as not to get a kid out that functionally had one weak arm, and one weak leg, and swung a t ball bat one handed to hit little dribblers at best. My guy just didn't want to get him out.
I find a way to keep that kid around somehow. If there's a roster limit, I keep going up the ladder until I get to the right authority to waive it, and if they refuse, I have "60 Minutes" on speed dial.
Much tougher call if the spot he takes displaces a better player...but I find a way, or make the evening news trying
I find a way to keep that kid around somehow. If there's a roster limit, I keep going up the ladder until I get to the right authority to waive it, and if they refuse, I have "60 Minutes" on speed dial.
Much tougher call if the spot he takes displaces a better player...but I find a way, or make the evening news trying
This is a 6A school. If his goal was to play HS baseball why wouldn't he enroll at a smaller school where his abilities are more aligned with the general level of play...
Note: I don't know about the rules in Florida. Here we have 'open enrollment'. Entering 9th grade, you can choose (space available) just about any school.
Note: I don't know about the rules in Florida. Here we have 'open enrollment'. Entering 9th grade, you can choose (space available) just about any school.
No open enrollment in Florida. Students attend schools in districts they live in, unless there are special circumstances. No recruiting allowed.
I tend to look at situations through how my player would view it.
I don't think that he would be too happy to have made the team if someone else better than him didn't. He would have seen it as pity and no way would he stand for that.
No way at all.
I don't think that he would be too happy to have made the team if someone else better than him didn't. He would have seen it as pity and no way would he stand for that.
No way at all.
Hawk19’s point is interesting. DPHS is obviously an elite top of the line school where players don’t make the team who otherwise might letter three or four years at a small rural school. It’s interesting that rules that were developed in part to prevent talented athletes from transferring for recruiting or athletic reasons have the effect of further restricting less talented ones from competing.
Talent is in the eye of the beholder. Or more accurately, in their mind. The beholder has preconceived concepts about what a valuable player is based on their previous knowledge or experience. I can understand TPM’s concept of fairness based on her son’s baseball experience. The reason others find Anthony a worthy teammate is that their mind has positive experiences with disabled persons. Others visualize pathetic, helpless, crippled drooling retards. Most people are somewhere in between. Thus I find DPHS' athletic motto printed at the top of their website to be thought provoking, “Never Less Than the Best.” But what is the best?
Talent is in the eye of the beholder. Or more accurately, in their mind. The beholder has preconceived concepts about what a valuable player is based on their previous knowledge or experience. I can understand TPM’s concept of fairness based on her son’s baseball experience. The reason others find Anthony a worthy teammate is that their mind has positive experiences with disabled persons. Others visualize pathetic, helpless, crippled drooling retards. Most people are somewhere in between. Thus I find DPHS' athletic motto printed at the top of their website to be thought provoking, “Never Less Than the Best.” But what is the best?
quote:Originally posted by TPM:
I tend to look at situations through how my player would view it.
I don't think that he would be too happy to have made the team if someone else better than him didn't. He would have seen it as pity and no way would he stand for that.
No way at all.
EXACTLY!
And from all accounts, that is exactly how Anthony took it...like a player, not a project.
quote:Originally posted by PA Dino:
Talent is in the eye of the beholder. Or more accurately, in their mind. The beholder has preconceived concepts about what a valuable player is based on their previous knowledge or experience. I can understand TPM’s concept of fairness based on her son’s baseball experience. The reason others find Anthony a worthy teammate is that their mind has positive experiences with disabled persons. Others visualize pathetic, helpless, crippled drooling retards. Most people are somewhere in between. Thus I find DPHS' athletic motto printed at the top of their website to be thought provoking, “Never Less Than the Best.” But what is the best?
The coach had the task of deciding who had the talent to be on the team based upon his set of standards as the coach of that program. I would imagine it probably was a gut wrenching decision (I hope). I am not here to say it was right or wrong, because I really don't know, I just think that we as adults tend to see things a lot differently than 16, 17 years olds do. If it were mine, I wouldn't want him to make the roster for anything less than for his talent, and as I said, son wouldn't want it any other way either. People with similar disabilities have alot easier time getting over something like this than those with all of their limbs attached.
If he is a good kid I would find a way to keep the kid involved with the team. However, I would never have him replace someone who is a better player and deserves to be on the team. That just wouldn't be right for anyone involved!
So where do we all fall on this? What is the solution? At what level do we focus on competing and leave behind the sympathy / pity parts of keeping kids who don't have it for whatever reason but are just good kids worth having around?
Obviously we won't come up with a consensus of an answer but it does pose some things we need to ask ourselves individually. There have been some pretty good arguments on both sides and there have been some pretty narrow minded comments. Like I said before - I would HATE to be in this position if this kid doesn't have the skill to compete. Even if you keep him as a manager how does the kid feel about it? Will he just accept that because he's not good enough because he is missing his legs or will he be ticked off because he wants to compete but isn't able to? Will he be embarassed or will he accept it?
Someone made the comment why didn't he transfer to a smaller school where he might be able to make the team due to a lack of talent - what if he wants to compete at the highest level? We look at that trait in kids as very favorable but is it still favorable if the kid has some kind of disability? Wouldn't we be more helpful to him if we tell him to keep pushing and working if it's his goal to play at the highest level or would we be more helpful telling him to go down to a lower level?
I have no idea what the answer is and I have no idea what I would do if I was presented this situation as a head coach. I want to show sympathy for a kid like this but I don't want to turn it into pity. I don't want to cut a kid who can become a better player just for this handicapped kid.
I guess I will just have to sit down with this kid and talk to him. Tell him where I think his skill level lies and what he thinks about possible situations of being on the team or not being on the team. Probably be a case by case situation and I've discovered when it comes to these situations you're better off talking to the people involved.
Obviously we won't come up with a consensus of an answer but it does pose some things we need to ask ourselves individually. There have been some pretty good arguments on both sides and there have been some pretty narrow minded comments. Like I said before - I would HATE to be in this position if this kid doesn't have the skill to compete. Even if you keep him as a manager how does the kid feel about it? Will he just accept that because he's not good enough because he is missing his legs or will he be ticked off because he wants to compete but isn't able to? Will he be embarassed or will he accept it?
Someone made the comment why didn't he transfer to a smaller school where he might be able to make the team due to a lack of talent - what if he wants to compete at the highest level? We look at that trait in kids as very favorable but is it still favorable if the kid has some kind of disability? Wouldn't we be more helpful to him if we tell him to keep pushing and working if it's his goal to play at the highest level or would we be more helpful telling him to go down to a lower level?
I have no idea what the answer is and I have no idea what I would do if I was presented this situation as a head coach. I want to show sympathy for a kid like this but I don't want to turn it into pity. I don't want to cut a kid who can become a better player just for this handicapped kid.
I guess I will just have to sit down with this kid and talk to him. Tell him where I think his skill level lies and what he thinks about possible situations of being on the team or not being on the team. Probably be a case by case situation and I've discovered when it comes to these situations you're better off talking to the people involved.
According to the Orlando Sentinel, Anthony turned down a team manager's spot.
New Orlando Sentinel Column
The newspaper ran another column and a poll yesterday;
Orlando Sentinel Column & Poll
New Orlando Sentinel Column
The newspaper ran another column and a poll yesterday;
Orlando Sentinel Column & Poll
For all we know one of the OTHER players that has been cut has an equally compelling story but no voice. If it's that important to him then find a place where he fits without making such a big stink. The Coach was hired to make the decision on what was best for the team, people are too easily swayed by today's media.
I wonder how many people who voted the kid should be on the team over a better player because high school sports are about more than winning ever played sports at the varsity level.
Here's another article or poll. What do you tell a kid who worked hard, deserved to be on the team and got cut for a less talented player over sympathy?
Here's another article or poll. What do you tell a kid who worked hard, deserved to be on the team and got cut for a less talented player over sympathy?
Dad 04,
Thanks for the link. It was an excellent article. My son plays with two of the starters on this team during the summer and fall. It is a very competitive program, and a number of good ballplayers must be cut each season. Dr. Phillips has a great reputation in academics as well as athletics. Have only heard good things about the coach. I'm sure he agonized over his decision. It is unfair that the media can get a hold of a story and sensationalize it, but of course it is certainly not uncommon. I sincerely wish nothing but the best for all of the parties involved.
Thanks for the link. It was an excellent article. My son plays with two of the starters on this team during the summer and fall. It is a very competitive program, and a number of good ballplayers must be cut each season. Dr. Phillips has a great reputation in academics as well as athletics. Have only heard good things about the coach. I'm sure he agonized over his decision. It is unfair that the media can get a hold of a story and sensationalize it, but of course it is certainly not uncommon. I sincerely wish nothing but the best for all of the parties involved.
quote:Someone made the comment why didn't he transfer to a smaller school where he might be able to make the team due to a lack of talent - what if he wants to compete at the highest level? We look at that trait in kids as very favorable but is it still favorable if the kid has some kind of disability? Wouldn't we be more helpful to him if we tell him to keep pushing and working if it's his goal to play at the highest level or would we be more helpful telling him to go down to a lower level?
'Lack of talent' is one way to put it...But there are much better pitchers in our 1A league here in AZ than this kid ....So it's not like he would come down and be the star. But he would play. (The school population of our entire eight team league is probably less that half the size of Dr. Phillips)
It's still baseball, it's still competing...
You can still grow and develop...
The experience can still be rewarding....
It's still fun...
Sometimes competing at the highest level just isn't in the cards. It doesn't happen just because you 'want it'....
High school coach cuts a player with dark hair but keeps a kid with sandy blonde hair!
They both had the same dream,But it is the coaches team, news at 11.
They both had the same dream,But it is the coaches team, news at 11.
From the Wikipedia article on Jim Abbott:
"When preparing to pitch the ball, Abbott would rest a right-handed thrower's glove on the end of his right forearm. After releasing the ball, he would quickly slip his hand into the glove, usually in time to field any balls that a two-handed pitcher would be able to field. Then he would remove the glove by securing it between his right forearm and torso, slip his hand out of the glove, and remove the ball from the glove, usually in time to throw out the runner and sometimes even start double plays. At all levels, teams tried to exploit his fielding disadvantage by repeatedly bunting to him; this tactic was never effective."
"When preparing to pitch the ball, Abbott would rest a right-handed thrower's glove on the end of his right forearm. After releasing the ball, he would quickly slip his hand into the glove, usually in time to field any balls that a two-handed pitcher would be able to field. Then he would remove the glove by securing it between his right forearm and torso, slip his hand out of the glove, and remove the ball from the glove, usually in time to throw out the runner and sometimes even start double plays. At all levels, teams tried to exploit his fielding disadvantage by repeatedly bunting to him; this tactic was never effective."
Thanks Swampy,
Any player is a blend of assets and deficits. Whether you advance to the next level relies on your abilities to maximize your assets to offset your deficits. Most players reach a point in their careers where their assets are too deficient to offset their deficits, and they become a cut.
This would include anyone who has not made it to the major leagues. The differences are only in what level they ascend to until they reach the asset deficient point.
In Anthony's case, it was reached at HS. Fairness implies equal treatment, equal opportunity, equal judgement, for all. Unfairness is the absence of fairness. By any definition, keeping any player that is measured differently than the fairness standard, is therefore unfair.
Any player is a blend of assets and deficits. Whether you advance to the next level relies on your abilities to maximize your assets to offset your deficits. Most players reach a point in their careers where their assets are too deficient to offset their deficits, and they become a cut.
This would include anyone who has not made it to the major leagues. The differences are only in what level they ascend to until they reach the asset deficient point.
In Anthony's case, it was reached at HS. Fairness implies equal treatment, equal opportunity, equal judgement, for all. Unfairness is the absence of fairness. By any definition, keeping any player that is measured differently than the fairness standard, is therefore unfair.
"The U.S. Department of Labor's Office of Disability Employment Policy (ODEP) has embarked on the PITCH Campaign (Proving Individuals with Talent Can Help) to encourage businesses to hire people with disabilities and to educate them about the talent people with disabilities can bring to their business
PITCH Campaign Fact Sheet
• Former 10-year Major League veteran and Olympic Champion Jim Abbott is serving as the campaign spokesman. Abbott, born without a right hand, was a first round draft pick of the California Angels and in 1993, while with the New York Yankees, he tossed a no-hitter.
• Under the leadership of Secretary of Labor Elaine L. Chao and Assistant Secretary of Labor Neil Romano, ODEP forged a partnership with Major League Baseball and Little League Baseball to garner greater exposure for the PITCH Campaign. As a result Abbott will make appearances at the Little League World Series in August and select Major League ballparks throughout September and October.
• The Office of Disability Employment Policy (ODEP) was authorized by Congress in the Department of Labor's FY 2001 appropriation. Recognizing the need for a national policy to ensure that people with disabilities are fully integrated into the 21st Century workforce, the Secretary of Labor Elaine L. Chao delegated authority and assigned responsibility to the Assistant Secretary for Disability Employment Policy. ODEP is a sub-cabinet level policy agency in the Department of Labor.
• ODEP provides national leadership on disability employment policy by developing and influencing the use of evidence-based disability employment policies and practices, building collaborative partnerships, and delivering authoritative and credible data on employment of people with disabilities."
From: Jim Abbott Friends and Fans
Abbott has been mentioned in this debate as representative of earning ones position in life and on the field without special representation or lobbying. Abbott was a spokesperson for a government agency whose purpose is to "ensure that people with disabilities are fully integrated into the 21st century workplace." Wouldn't it follow that this agency is not needed and that all we need do is allow employers to select the best qualified applicant period? So why do persons with disabilities need an advocate at all?
PITCH Campaign Fact Sheet
• Former 10-year Major League veteran and Olympic Champion Jim Abbott is serving as the campaign spokesman. Abbott, born without a right hand, was a first round draft pick of the California Angels and in 1993, while with the New York Yankees, he tossed a no-hitter.
• Under the leadership of Secretary of Labor Elaine L. Chao and Assistant Secretary of Labor Neil Romano, ODEP forged a partnership with Major League Baseball and Little League Baseball to garner greater exposure for the PITCH Campaign. As a result Abbott will make appearances at the Little League World Series in August and select Major League ballparks throughout September and October.
• The Office of Disability Employment Policy (ODEP) was authorized by Congress in the Department of Labor's FY 2001 appropriation. Recognizing the need for a national policy to ensure that people with disabilities are fully integrated into the 21st Century workforce, the Secretary of Labor Elaine L. Chao delegated authority and assigned responsibility to the Assistant Secretary for Disability Employment Policy. ODEP is a sub-cabinet level policy agency in the Department of Labor.
• ODEP provides national leadership on disability employment policy by developing and influencing the use of evidence-based disability employment policies and practices, building collaborative partnerships, and delivering authoritative and credible data on employment of people with disabilities."
From: Jim Abbott Friends and Fans
Abbott has been mentioned in this debate as representative of earning ones position in life and on the field without special representation or lobbying. Abbott was a spokesperson for a government agency whose purpose is to "ensure that people with disabilities are fully integrated into the 21st century workplace." Wouldn't it follow that this agency is not needed and that all we need do is allow employers to select the best qualified applicant period? So why do persons with disabilities need an advocate at all?
No offense Dino but what does that have to do with a teenager trying out fora baseball team?
We are not talking about a qualified person not gettng a position simply because of a disability. We are talking about a kid going out for an after school activity not being selected because he wasn't one of the top qualifiers.
What are you suggesting now, a discrimination lawsuit? Since when did the ADA guarantee equality of outcomes? I don't know of one person here, parent or coach that doesn't believe that the kid shouldn't have had the opportunity to try out for the team. Equality of opportunity is not the same as equality of outcome.
When I was six years old I started wearing glasses. I wear Coke bottles now. When I was 15 I had a dream of being a fighter pilot for the US Navy. Guess what, I wasn't qualified. I didn't even get the opportunity to attempt because myopic individuals are not given the opportunity to fly multi million dollar fighter jets. Private pilot yes but not high speed jets.
Is that fair? Should I have complained about not getting the opportunity? Even after lasix I wouldn't be eligable, even if my eyes were 20/15. Should I look to sue? No, that is the way things are.
This is not a job position and this kid had a chance to try out. He simply didn't make the squad. Maybe he couldn't field his position, maybe his arm isn't strong enough to overcome his deficiencies in the lower body and legs. I don't know. Just because he gets the opportunity to try out shouldn't automatically give him a spot on the team.
That teaches him absolutely nothing other than harping on your disability will scare people into giving you what you want. Is that honestly what you want this kid to learn?
We are not talking about a qualified person not gettng a position simply because of a disability. We are talking about a kid going out for an after school activity not being selected because he wasn't one of the top qualifiers.
What are you suggesting now, a discrimination lawsuit? Since when did the ADA guarantee equality of outcomes? I don't know of one person here, parent or coach that doesn't believe that the kid shouldn't have had the opportunity to try out for the team. Equality of opportunity is not the same as equality of outcome.
When I was six years old I started wearing glasses. I wear Coke bottles now. When I was 15 I had a dream of being a fighter pilot for the US Navy. Guess what, I wasn't qualified. I didn't even get the opportunity to attempt because myopic individuals are not given the opportunity to fly multi million dollar fighter jets. Private pilot yes but not high speed jets.
Is that fair? Should I have complained about not getting the opportunity? Even after lasix I wouldn't be eligable, even if my eyes were 20/15. Should I look to sue? No, that is the way things are.
This is not a job position and this kid had a chance to try out. He simply didn't make the squad. Maybe he couldn't field his position, maybe his arm isn't strong enough to overcome his deficiencies in the lower body and legs. I don't know. Just because he gets the opportunity to try out shouldn't automatically give him a spot on the team.
That teaches him absolutely nothing other than harping on your disability will scare people into giving you what you want. Is that honestly what you want this kid to learn?
One more thing. Am I right? This kid is 14 years old? I have no idea what kind of team puts a 14 year old on the varsity team. Is this kid dropped from the Freshman squad? The JV team? My question is what did this kid get rejected from. Or did he not make varisty? I don't know too many Freshman that make varsity short of him being a top tier talent. It happens but it is rare.
To be honest, if the kid didn't make the freshman squad and he can throw 80mph as a Freshman I am more than a little curious as to why. Not being able to field a bunt seems pretty cheezy, if that is the only reason. He could be taught to field a bunt. I would like to know what he is trying out for and what he was rejected for.
To be honest, if the kid didn't make the freshman squad and he can throw 80mph as a Freshman I am more than a little curious as to why. Not being able to field a bunt seems pretty cheezy, if that is the only reason. He could be taught to field a bunt. I would like to know what he is trying out for and what he was rejected for.
quote:wklink posted: Not being able to field a bunt seems pretty cheezy, if that is the only reason. He could be taught to field a bunt. I would like to know what he is trying out for and what he was rejected for.
The child has no legs. I know you've never played or run a practice, but have you ever actually watched a baseball game in person?
He is 16.
Dad04 has more or less told you very precisely why he didn't make the team, can't you just let it go?
Dad04 has more or less told you very precisely why he didn't make the team, can't you just let it go?
Anthony played organized ball through junior league (little league on the 90' field). Coaches in the league agreed to not bunt on Anthony.
quote:Originally posted by TPM:
He is 16.
Dad04 has more or less told you very precisely why he didn't make the team, can't you just let it go?
I asked what is age was. I can't see him not making a freshman team-I didn't say a thing about Varsity.
Why don't you read my posts. I never said he should play varsity. What I said was if he was 14 and didn't make the freshman team (if he was an 80mph 14 year old) I would consider the lack of fielding bunts suspicious. Freshman ball is where you learn those skills (or at least try to) if you haven't before.
I've been very consistant on this. I just have read in some sources that he was either 13 or 14. That was where my question arises.
quote:Originally posted by Dad04:quote:wklink posted: Not being able to field a bunt seems pretty cheezy, if that is the only reason. He could be taught to field a bunt. I would like to know what he is trying out for and what he was rejected for.
The child has no legs. I know you've never played or run a practice, but have you ever actually watched a baseball game in person?
Asked and answered.
quote:Originally posted by Dad04:quote:Originally posted by Dad04:quote:wklink posted: Not being able to field a bunt seems pretty cheezy, if that is the only reason. He could be taught to field a bunt. I would like to know what he is trying out for and what he was rejected for.
The child has no legs. I know you've never played or run a practice, but have you ever actually watched a baseball game in person?
Asked and answered.
You have no idea what level of baseball I have played, coached or watched.
It is obvious you have no reading comprehension because if you had you would have realized that I AGREED WITH YOU!
All I said was IF, IF mind you he was a Freshman then he should have been on the freshman team. NOT VARSITY, NOT even JV if they have a Freshman team. I don't know if he can be taught to field bunts or not but I suspect that he can at least bend over. No he can't get into the same fielding position that a normal kid can get into but that doesn't mean he can't field a bunt.
God, I am learning to hate this board. First I get grief from one group that seems to think the kid should play varsity because he is handicapped even though he didn't earn the position then I get grief from the other group because I read that he was 13 years old last year.
Are you all this obtuse or what?
quote:Originally posted by Wklink:
Are you all this obtuse or what?
Not anymore, I'm on a diet.
Hehe.
Sorry but personal insults rub me the wrong way. Even if I don't agree with someone I won't insult them or insinuate that they have no right to be here. This is even worse because I agree that unless he can field his position he shouldn't play varsity ball. I have no idea what dad04's background is. He seems to know mine based on the idea that I thought the kid was a freshman and might be able to learn how to field in freshman ball.
Sorry but personal insults rub me the wrong way. Even if I don't agree with someone I won't insult them or insinuate that they have no right to be here. This is even worse because I agree that unless he can field his position he shouldn't play varsity ball. I have no idea what dad04's background is. He seems to know mine based on the idea that I thought the kid was a freshman and might be able to learn how to field in freshman ball.