high school coaches

FWIW,

If it asks for the HS coach that is what they want. If they are serious they can find out who he is and contact him anyway. You can also include his summer coaches contact info.

When we send out questionnaires with specific questions like HS coaches contact info and we see someone else filled in... It appears that there is a problem with the HS coach and someone is trying to get around it. That doesn't make much difference to us, being we hardly ever contact the HS coach. However, if I were serious about recruiting a kid to a college, this red flag would cause my first call to be to the high school coach. I would want to know why he wasn't listed.

BTW, most college recruiters are used to high school coaches. The ones they trust carry a lot of weight... the others they don't trust. That doesn't mean they don't listen to their opinions.

I have not heard of any high school coach hurting a player's chances on purpose. I do imagine that there are some that have given their POV and that might different than the parent/player POV and that could be viewed as being hurtful.

In your case seems like you have some respected knowledgeable people giving you advice that your son has the ability to play college ball, so one would imagine that your HS coach might see it the same way. However sound like you have some concerns about that. I would think leaving his HS coach off might raise some red flags? I know my son’s high school coach has been contracted by several schools that have interest and has not been contacted by others that have also shown an interest.

So I guess it depends on the college coach. I was told at a recruiting seminar that College coaches as a general rule do not pay that much attention to HS coach recommendations. Like I said our experience has been mixed, some have contacted the HS coach and some have not.

Has your son talked to his coach and asked for his help? Asked him for recommendation? Might help you decide if you want his as part of the process? My son’s HS coach has been very helpful

RJM,

Great question. There are many HS coaches out there who are helpful, and want to advance their program and relationship with players and parents. There are some that just don't care, and you need to figure out which is which in your case.

I can tell you what we did last year. We put the travel coaches name & number as well as a pro scout familiar with his ability on the recruiting forms. That is what my son was most comfortable with. My son was adamant about keeping it within those people who helped him get recruited and brought a positive light to his travel baseball accomplishments. His grades spoke for themselves.

Case and point, my son made the mistake of putting his (former) HS head coach on one of his forms. The college called the high school coach a few times but the HS coach never called the college coach back. It was a good thing that this was not one of his top choices, and we found out where that HS coach stood. The fact that the HS coach didn't have the decency to call him back tells you a lot right there. Frankly, we were embarassed for him and glad he did not open his mouth. Using your words --- "My concern is the HS coach doesn't seem to be on the same page as these showcase player's coaches in terms of college potential". Your HS coach may not be, but I know of several coaches in our district who are, and will do anything for their players.

When asked by the college (specifically), I would provide the high school coaches name and number. I would also have my son prepared to answer WHY he did not put his high school coaches name and number on the form.

Good luck!

quote:

I would think leaving his HS coach off might raise some red flags

When forms ask for high school coach info it's supplied. When sending out emails it's not included.

quote:

Has your son talked to his coach and asked for his help? Asked him for recommendation? Might help you decide if you want his as part of the process?

The players find him unapproachable. One time the coach laughed at a parent and walked away when the parent told him he intimidates the players. He was upset the parent approached him about an academic issue. The last time (last year) my son approached him the coach publicly humiliated him. The first time my son hit a homer he stuck out his hand rounding third and the coach stepped away and folded his arms. He's having an awesome year and the coach has said nothing positive to him. After the team wins he rips whatever they did wrong. He has said nothing positive to any of the three showcase players even though they are all having excellent seasons. He has mentally abused one of the showcase players (not my son) so badly the kid has a fu attitude towards the coach (in private). I call this an undetermined wild card.

His last name isn't Patton, is it?

Seriously, sounds like a proud power hungery man!

I've never liked calling players... "Showcase Players". There are very talented kids who go to showcases and there are weak players that go to showcases. So "Showcase Players" really doesn't mean anything.

RJM,

My son is having a similar problem on the opposite spectrum. His HS coach has faith that he can play at the next level and will do what is necessary to help. My kid no longer plays for the same Summer/Fall program, so it's difficult when the coaches info is needed on the questionnaires. I'm not sure if it's beneficial to include the former Travel Ball coach? He will be with a new program this summer, and at that time the coaches info on these questionnaires will be much easier, but until then...247 son is in the same boat!

quote:

BTW, most college recruiters are used to high school coaches. The ones they trust carry a lot of weight... the others they don't trust. That doesn't mean they don't listen to their opinions.

Just last week a coach from a school that is recruiting my son came out to look at him and his teammate (2010) who has already signed with the school. There was downtime in their college season due to exam week and was the first chance they had to see him play.

HS coach knows that son is being recruited by this school due to the fact when we went down for an unofficial visit a few weekends ago he was there also to watch one of his former players.

So what does coach do, not play him. Besides not playing he was not even allowed to throw a bullpen. He is being recruited as a pitcher, hope the college coach liked his hustle chasing after the foul balls during the game.

But we still add his name and contact info on all recruiting forms.

Sounds like my son's (2011)coach. He is a pitcher and gets asked when he's pitching so the coaches can come see him. His coach doesn't tell the players until the day before who he is using. So, there is no way to tell the scouts when he's going. On another ocassion we had a meeting set up with a coach on a Saturday morining and the HS coach changed the practice time. When my son told him he had a meeting set up, his coach told him to tell the D1 coach that he couldn't make it because he had practice. Some of the schools that have contacted my son have included a coach's questionaire. we have not had a response from one of the schools since my son sent in his questionaire. Have no idea if the HS coach sent his back. The guy is just not a big help so we always include the travel coach info.

I am convinced that there is a phenomenon among HS coaches, particularly old-time state Hall of Famer types, whereby they intentionally downplay the talents and accomplishments of their players in order to make themselves look better. I too have observed a coach, knowing that a pro scout traveled halfway across the country to see a particular player, remove that kid in the 3rd inning for no reason other than to assert that it's his program and he'll play the kid as he darn well pleases.

For you coach apologists out there, I have many specific examples of this coach talking down his kids for potential college and/or professional opportunities, and I truly believe it is in order to cover for the fact that he should have won several state championships by now with the talent that has either graduated from his school, or more notably, transferred from it.

OutinLF,

I certainly hope that is not the case amongst HS coaches? You'd think the goal would be to have as many kids move on to college as possible? Programs that send players off to play the next level are generally winning programs! In my mind, that would cement their (HS & HS Coach) reputation as a "Hall of Fame" type!

We shouldn't see any coach, in any sport, talk down to kids/students who have goals to play at the next level. A little honesty is fine, but it should be done with class and dignity IMHO!

OutinLF,
I know there are such coaches...I just hope that something can be done about them? It really is a shame if kids (if they're regulars in the starting lineup?) are benched intentionally when the coach knows of a scout coming out to see a particular player. The coach isn't helping himself or his program!

BTW...Welcome to the HSBBW!

LF,
Sounds like our HS coach. You are not alone. Unfortunately.

OutinLF,

I'd like to tell you that any coach that does that (takes a kids out of a game knowing a scout is coming) should be called out for it. However, I realize that most players and parents will not call out the coach because they do not want to further jeopardize their situation or position. They are powerless against the coach, and he knows it. Essentially, it is mental bullying by the coach. Bullying is alive and well in HS baseball coaching.

There are many other incidents where a coach should be called out, but the players and parents do not want to call attention to it. Furthermore, there is little accountability between coaches and ADs, as most of them are buddies. The AD is almost always going to have the coaches back. Almost all coaches in our area refuse to deal with parents (unless it is to raise money for their program) on any regular basis. In some cases, I don't blame them for not wanting to deal with parents. Most parents don't know how to manage a game, and evaluate talent. Unless there is some level of impartial oversight, these coaches will continue in their ways. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Well said Pesky,

And sums up the program of which I speak very well. Without a doubt, this man has kept kids out of college. It's like the more good players he has, the higher the expectations that he's not going to meet. Therefore, even in the local press, he disparages the abiltiy of his players, or in some instances, builds up his sophomores and freshman as if to say look at what I am accomplishing with these underclassmen. Meanwhile he has at least six, maybe seven college-bound seniors who have secured their scholarships by attending showcases, tournaments, etc., all of which this "coach" insists are "disloyal" to his program.

Certainly I am disappointed that our team did not win a state title, but I am happy that this four-year ordeal is finally over.

Year in year out my son's ex-HS coach places less players in college than any other program in the league including the lower tier teams. Other than one case where we heard that he kept a letter from a D1 school from a player (that is a rumor, not a known fact) he does send info to college coaches when requested. Our experience however is that there was always an element of CYA in the responses. He'd say good things but there'd always be some qualification to go along with the good things.

I think that what the coach said at one pre-season parents meeting explained it. He said that he got a form from mid-major type D1 that asked the standard "is he the best player in the league" etc., type of questions. He said he certainly couldn't say that about the player. The player, may or may not have been the best player in the league that season. It is an incredibly talent rich league. The player was a freshman all-american the next season.

Further, he tried to route another player, the one whose letter from a D1 he allegedly held onto to a NAIA school where he felt the player was more suited to than the D1 level. The player was a Sunday starter at a D1 part way through his freshman season.

Unfortunately, not every coach is that good at helping players get into college even if they are trying. On the other hand some of the less successful on the field coaches from our league do a great job of helping kids get college scholarships. I believe the 7th place team in the league had 3 or 4 kids sign D1 this season.

Lots of words but the bottom line is go ahead and have the coach make his recommendations and make the best of the situation.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
[QUOTE] The last time (last year) my son approached him the coach publicly humiliated him. The first time my son hit a homer he stuck out his hand rounding third and the coach stepped away and folded his arms. He's having an awesome year and the coach has said nothing positive to him. After the team wins he rips whatever they did wrong. He has said nothing positive to any of the three showcase players even though they are all having excellent seasons. He has mentally abused one of the showcase players (not my son) so badly the kid has a fu attitude towards the coach (in private).

i know how you feel. my coach has done nothing for me. i have had 10 at bats this season, never have batted above ninth and am second on the team in home runs. i throw from 80 to 87 as a freshman still playing freshman because they dont pull up (which i uderstand but still...) and had 19 k's in my first 7 innings. when i asked my coach why i wasnt playing and more specifically what i could do to get more play time, he blew me off and told me it was the depth chart and to keep working when i am one of the only people who actually tries to get better during practice. my coach doesnt let me throw bullpens in practice and put me in after not trowing for two weeks then when i was asking him about my mechanics he didnt know

quote:

Originally posted by bigheat27-42:

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
[QUOTE] The last time (last year) my son approached him the coach publicly humiliated him. The first time my son hit a homer he stuck out his hand rounding third and the coach stepped away and folded his arms. He's having an awesome year and the coach has said nothing positive to him. After the team wins he rips whatever they did wrong. He has said nothing positive to any of the three showcase players even though they are all having excellent seasons. He has mentally abused one of the showcase players (not my son) so badly the kid has a fu attitude towards the coach (in private).

i know how you feel. my coach has done nothing for me. i have had 10 at bats this season, never have batted above ninth and am second on the team in home runs. i throw from 80 to 87 as a freshman still playing freshman because they dont pull up (which i uderstand but still...) and had 19 k's in my first 7 innings. when i asked my coach why i wasnt playing and more specifically what i could do to get more play time, he blew me off and told me it was the depth chart and to keep working when i am one of the only people who actually tries to get better during practice. my coach doesnt let me throw bullpens in practice and put me in after not trowing for two weeks then when i was asking him about my mechanics he didnt know. i am counting down the days unitl summer because i have no patience for my highschol program. im just lucky the varsity coach isnt this bad.

This isn't a rag on coaches and playing time discussion. This is a discussion on varsity coaches damaging college playing opportunities for their players.

quote:

This isn't a rag on coaches and playing time discussion. This is a discussion on varsity coaches damaging college playing opportunities for their players.

i wasn't trying to rag on coaches i was trying to give an example of how they can screw uo a players chance at the next level. travle coaches will do more for a player than a highschool coach will imo. sorry if it came off that way and i have edited and taken out part of it so hope that helps make my point a little clearer

bigheat - your initial post here in this thread kind of rubbed me wrong but then I remembered you are a freshman in high school so I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Kids your age (including me at your age) say and do things they regret sometimes.

That said, you cannot control what your coach does, says, or thinks. I would have had more respect for your opinion if you would have said something like "I don't see eye-to-eye with my coach and not always sure he has the players best interest at heart. Even so, I am going to work twice as hard to overcome things."

Nothing wrong disagreeing with someone but don't make that your focus. Focus on what you can control and make yourself responsible for the future. Don't leave it up to your coach and don't use him as an excuse. Baseball is a large part about overcoming mental obsticles imho.

As the father of a son that has just graduated from a JUCO, and a HS Senior that is still awaiting confirmation that he will have a place to play in the Fall, never have I expected or considered that my son's High School coach was going to get my guys a spot to play at the next level.

That became very clear to me years ago when I first found this site. It is first and foremost up to each player where he will end up. But, beyond that it is going to be a function of playing on travel teams and attending showcases and college camps.

I have seen our local JUCO show up at HS games, and when we had a top pick in the draft last year we had a bunch of colleges and pro's. But he was not found at a local high school. He was "discovered" at the 17U WWBA Championship in Ft. Myers.

You can not let anyone have that much control over your destiny or baseball opportunities. It is in your hands and your son's hands, first and foremost.

Just to add some balance and a "good" HS coach story here.

I think our 2011 son has absolutely the best HS coach (maybe best coach period) a baseball player could ever have! He teaches the game, understands kids (he's a teacher at the school), is very flexible about summer/travel ball, is communicative with parents, supports players' decisions...and helps to get them to where they want to go. (Did I mention he also wins?!).

And yes, he helped our son TREMENDOUSLY with the whole college thing!

I wish you could all experience this coach...doesn't get any better.

Thanks for posting that about your sons coach. I have no doubt he would really appreciate knowing you felt that way. From reading thread after thread about terrible hs coaches it is refreshing to hear someone say something about their hs coach like that.

FF hit the nail on the head imo in this thread. Do not leave something that is this important to your son in the hands of anyone else solely. Take an active role in this process with and for your son. And if the hs coach is like your son's jbb it only makes it better.

like any MMA fan would say - "don't leave it in the hands of the judges"

If you do your best, what others think, say or do is imaterial.

Justbaseball's son is a truly lucky one. Dad is right that Coach Hutton is one of the best around. He's a class act, and a truly great baseball coach.

Maybe some of these coaches just don't know how it is done? I know in our case my son's hs coach was young, hadn't gone through much of the process himself, but knew quite a few of the coaches and sources. He was very honest when it came right down to the decision of where to go. It is not the hs coach's job. Justbaseball's son is lucky.
I think too that if you've been around baseball long enough, and you have a good, learning attitude that's humble, people will fall over themselves to help you out. I have a daughter involved in another sport, and you would never find that kind of self less attitude there from parents. Scary.
The least people should do is come here and learn, it is collectively the best counseling on the web.

mikamom and others - One of the really amazing things is our son's HS coach tells me at times he's beginning to feel as if parents don't lean on him enough.

His HS produces over 30 athletes a year that go onto D1 sports...many to top-25 programs in football, basketball, volleyball, softball, baseball, etc... Kerri Walsh and Brandi Chastain both attended this school. The whole support system is unbelievable. From the moment any hint of college athletics is mentioned...student athletes are walked through the NCAA Clearinghouse process by their counselors, receive communication from the counselors to the parents about the colleges "in play" and what the student needs to do to qualify academically, the school's administration makes offices available for phone calls during off-periods...and the coaches make phone calls to college coaches themselves. The HS itself puts on numerous "college nights" including at least one NCAA night a year. Many of the teams get more specific by having guest speakers for their teams.

Believe it or not, we even had one high-D1 college coach get annoyed that the HS coach was even involved at all! Can you believe it?!?!

Our son's HS has 2-4 D1 baseball players in each class. Another 2-4 D2/D3/JC players in each class. The coach worries that too many of these kids are trying to do it all on their own...and aren't realizing the help he can provide.

Is it possible that some parents assume the coach won't help when he's really chomping at the bit to, in fact, help?

Might some parents here be making the wrong assumption? Certainly not all, but some?

Yup, we're lucky. Very lucky. But I also did a lot of homework before selecting this HS for our kids (freshman daughter is there too). Hard to imagine a better situation.

I am not providing these posts to "brag" on our kids' HS (although that would be easy)...but just to provide some balance...to say there are good ones out there...and that even when there's a great one, not every parent/player fully utilizes it. Its up to each of us to figure out if we might be overlooking a lot of help right in front of our eyes.

justbaseball - you ARE lucky (and smart)!!! I am just glad this site is here to help people out.

I think the coaches can make a world of difference and the players and parents generally know who does and doesn't make the extra effort to place players. My son was told by one of his teammates about a coach in the HS league they both came from who is very aggressive about placing players. This season that team has 3 or 4 kids signing D1. The team tied for last place in league with a couple of those kids hitting under .250 for the season and most likely even less against league pitching which might be more indicative of their potential for success against college level pitching.

The team my son came from has 1 who has signed D1 and 1 who has committed D1 with little or no help from the coach. There's another player who is probably the best and most talented player on the team who hasn't committed yet as far as I know but has probably gotten and deserves plenty of help from the coach. The kid is probably a bit underrated due to size but I think will be a solid D1 player if he gets the chance. It is purely speculation but my guess is that he's simply trying to decide between so-so D1 offers and good D2 offers. (Update: the kid has committed to a solid D1) This is one of the top ranked teams in the top division of CIF SS.

Who is better off? The kids who may not belong in D1 ball who were aggressively marketed by their coach or the kids who had to be a bit better than the rest to get their spot because they didn't get much help from a coach who was being cautious? I don't know the answer to that one.

Our HS Coach is an English teacher at the school and knows nothing about baseball. Our Pitching Coach was the MVP of the CWS and truly runs the show and although he very rarely gets credit from the HC everyone who knows our program knows he's the man. That being said... my nephew put down his pitching coaches name.

At the beginning of every season the HC tells all parents at the first team meeting that it is NOT his job to find a place for his kid to play at the next level. The majority of our kids play for high powered recruiting teams such as the Legends or Bombers.