high school coaches

FWIW,

If it asks for the HS coach that is what they want. If they are serious they can find out who he is and contact him anyway. You can also include his summer coaches contact info.

When we send out questionnaires with specific questions like HS coaches contact info and we see someone else filled in... It appears that there is a problem with the HS coach and someone is trying to get around it. That doesn't make much difference to us, being we hardly ever contact the HS coach. However, if I were serious about recruiting a kid to a college, this red flag would cause my first call to be to the high school coach. I would want to know why he wasn't listed.

BTW, most college recruiters are used to high school coaches. The ones they trust carry a lot of weight... the others they don't trust. That doesn't mean they don't listen to their opinions.

I have not heard of any high school coach hurting a player's chances on purpose. I do imagine that there are some that have given their POV and that might different than the parent/player POV and that could be viewed as being hurtful.

In your case seems like you have some respected knowledgeable people giving you advice that your son has the ability to play college ball, so one would imagine that your HS coach might see it the same way. However sound like you have some concerns about that. I would think leaving his HS coach off might raise some red flags? I know my son’s high school coach has been contracted by several schools that have interest and has not been contacted by others that have also shown an interest.

So I guess it depends on the college coach. I was told at a recruiting seminar that College coaches as a general rule do not pay that much attention to HS coach recommendations. Like I said our experience has been mixed, some have contacted the HS coach and some have not.

Has your son talked to his coach and asked for his help? Asked him for recommendation? Might help you decide if you want his as part of the process? My son’s HS coach has been very helpful

RJM,

Great question. There are many HS coaches out there who are helpful, and want to advance their program and relationship with players and parents. There are some that just don't care, and you need to figure out which is which in your case.

I can tell you what we did last year. We put the travel coaches name & number as well as a pro scout familiar with his ability on the recruiting forms. That is what my son was most comfortable with. My son was adamant about keeping it within those people who helped him get recruited and brought a positive light to his travel baseball accomplishments. His grades spoke for themselves.

Case and point, my son made the mistake of putting his (former) HS head coach on one of his forms. The college called the high school coach a few times but the HS coach never called the college coach back. It was a good thing that this was not one of his top choices, and we found out where that HS coach stood. The fact that the HS coach didn't have the decency to call him back tells you a lot right there. Frankly, we were embarassed for him and glad he did not open his mouth. Using your words --- "My concern is the HS coach doesn't seem to be on the same page as these showcase player's coaches in terms of college potential". Your HS coach may not be, but I know of several coaches in our district who are, and will do anything for their players.

When asked by the college (specifically), I would provide the high school coaches name and number. I would also have my son prepared to answer WHY he did not put his high school coaches name and number on the form.

Good luck!

quote:

I would think leaving his HS coach off might raise some red flags

When forms ask for high school coach info it's supplied. When sending out emails it's not included.

quote:

Has your son talked to his coach and asked for his help? Asked him for recommendation? Might help you decide if you want his as part of the process?

The players find him unapproachable. One time the coach laughed at a parent and walked away when the parent told him he intimidates the players. He was upset the parent approached him about an academic issue. The last time (last year) my son approached him the coach publicly humiliated him. The first time my son hit a homer he stuck out his hand rounding third and the coach stepped away and folded his arms. He's having an awesome year and the coach has said nothing positive to him. After the team wins he rips whatever they did wrong. He has said nothing positive to any of the three showcase players even though they are all having excellent seasons. He has mentally abused one of the showcase players (not my son) so badly the kid has a fu attitude towards the coach (in private). I call this an undetermined wild card.

His last name isn't Patton, is it?

Seriously, sounds like a proud power hungery man!

I've never liked calling players... "Showcase Players". There are very talented kids who go to showcases and there are weak players that go to showcases. So "Showcase Players" really doesn't mean anything.

RJM,

My son is having a similar problem on the opposite spectrum. His HS coach has faith that he can play at the next level and will do what is necessary to help. My kid no longer plays for the same Summer/Fall program, so it's difficult when the coaches info is needed on the questionnaires. I'm not sure if it's beneficial to include the former Travel Ball coach? He will be with a new program this summer, and at that time the coaches info on these questionnaires will be much easier, but until then...247 son is in the same boat!

quote:

BTW, most college recruiters are used to high school coaches. The ones they trust carry a lot of weight... the others they don't trust. That doesn't mean they don't listen to their opinions.

Just last week a coach from a school that is recruiting my son came out to look at him and his teammate (2010) who has already signed with the school. There was downtime in their college season due to exam week and was the first chance they had to see him play.

HS coach knows that son is being recruited by this school due to the fact when we went down for an unofficial visit a few weekends ago he was there also to watch one of his former players.

So what does coach do, not play him. Besides not playing he was not even allowed to throw a bullpen. He is being recruited as a pitcher, hope the college coach liked his hustle chasing after the foul balls during the game.

But we still add his name and contact info on all recruiting forms.

Sounds like my son's (2011)coach. He is a pitcher and gets asked when he's pitching so the coaches can come see him. His coach doesn't tell the players until the day before who he is using. So, there is no way to tell the scouts when he's going. On another ocassion we had a meeting set up with a coach on a Saturday morining and the HS coach changed the practice time. When my son told him he had a meeting set up, his coach told him to tell the D1 coach that he couldn't make it because he had practice. Some of the schools that have contacted my son have included a coach's questionaire. we have not had a response from one of the schools since my son sent in his questionaire. Have no idea if the HS coach sent his back. The guy is just not a big help so we always include the travel coach info.

I am convinced that there is a phenomenon among HS coaches, particularly old-time state Hall of Famer types, whereby they intentionally downplay the talents and accomplishments of their players in order to make themselves look better. I too have observed a coach, knowing that a pro scout traveled halfway across the country to see a particular player, remove that kid in the 3rd inning for no reason other than to assert that it's his program and he'll play the kid as he darn well pleases.

For you coach apologists out there, I have many specific examples of this coach talking down his kids for potential college and/or professional opportunities, and I truly believe it is in order to cover for the fact that he should have won several state championships by now with the talent that has either graduated from his school, or more notably, transferred from it.

OutinLF,

I certainly hope that is not the case amongst HS coaches? You'd think the goal would be to have as many kids move on to college as possible? Programs that send players off to play the next level are generally winning programs! In my mind, that would cement their (HS & HS Coach) reputation as a "Hall of Fame" type!

We shouldn't see any coach, in any sport, talk down to kids/students who have goals to play at the next level. A little honesty is fine, but it should be done with class and dignity IMHO!

OutinLF,
I know there are such coaches...I just hope that something can be done about them? It really is a shame if kids (if they're regulars in the starting lineup?) are benched intentionally when the coach knows of a scout coming out to see a particular player. The coach isn't helping himself or his program!

BTW...Welcome to the HSBBW!

LF,
Sounds like our HS coach. You are not alone. Unfortunately.

OutinLF,

I'd like to tell you that any coach that does that (takes a kids out of a game knowing a scout is coming) should be called out for it. However, I realize that most players and parents will not call out the coach because they do not want to further jeopardize their situation or position. They are powerless against the coach, and he knows it. Essentially, it is mental bullying by the coach. Bullying is alive and well in HS baseball coaching.

There are many other incidents where a coach should be called out, but the players and parents do not want to call attention to it. Furthermore, there is little accountability between coaches and ADs, as most of them are buddies. The AD is almost always going to have the coaches back. Almost all coaches in our area refuse to deal with parents (unless it is to raise money for their program) on any regular basis. In some cases, I don't blame them for not wanting to deal with parents. Most parents don't know how to manage a game, and evaluate talent. Unless there is some level of impartial oversight, these coaches will continue in their ways. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Well said Pesky,

And sums up the program of which I speak very well. Without a doubt, this man has kept kids out of college. It's like the more good players he has, the higher the expectations that he's not going to meet. Therefore, even in the local press, he disparages the abiltiy of his players, or in some instances, builds up his sophomores and freshman as if to say look at what I am accomplishing with these underclassmen. Meanwhile he has at least six, maybe seven college-bound seniors who have secured their scholarships by attending showcases, tournaments, etc., all of which this "coach" insists are "disloyal" to his program.

Certainly I am disappointed that our team did not win a state title, but I am happy that this four-year ordeal is finally over.

Year in year out my son's ex-HS coach places less players in college than any other program in the league including the lower tier teams. Other than one case where we heard that he kept a letter from a D1 school from a player (that is a rumor, not a known fact) he does send info to college coaches when requested. Our experience however is that there was always an element of CYA in the responses. He'd say good things but there'd always be some qualification to go along with the good things.

I think that what the coach said at one pre-season parents meeting explained it. He said that he got a form from mid-major type D1 that asked the standard "is he the best player in the league" etc., type of questions. He said he certainly couldn't say that about the player. The player, may or may not have been the best player in the league that season. It is an incredibly talent rich league. The player was a freshman all-american the next season.

Further, he tried to route another player, the one whose letter from a D1 he allegedly held onto to a NAIA school where he felt the player was more suited to than the D1 level. The player was a Sunday starter at a D1 part way through his freshman season.

Unfortunately, not every coach is that good at helping players get into college even if they are trying. On the other hand some of the less successful on the field coaches from our league do a great job of helping kids get college scholarships. I believe the 7th place team in the league had 3 or 4 kids sign D1 this season.

Lots of words but the bottom line is go ahead and have the coach make his recommendations and make the best of the situation.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
[QUOTE] The last time (last year) my son approached him the coach publicly humiliated him. The first time my son hit a homer he stuck out his hand rounding third and the coach stepped away and folded his arms. He's having an awesome year and the coach has said nothing positive to him. After the team wins he rips whatever they did wrong. He has said nothing positive to any of the three showcase players even though they are all having excellent seasons. He has mentally abused one of the showcase players (not my son) so badly the kid has a fu attitude towards the coach (in private).

i know how you feel. my coach has done nothing for me. i have had 10 at bats this season, never have batted above ninth and am second on the team in home runs. i throw from 80 to 87 as a freshman still playing freshman because they dont pull up (which i uderstand but still...) and had 19 k's in my first 7 innings. when i asked my coach why i wasnt playing and more specifically what i could do to get more play time, he blew me off and told me it was the depth chart and to keep working when i am one of the only people who actually tries to get better during practice. my coach doesnt let me throw bullpens in practice and put me in after not trowing for two weeks then when i was asking him about my mechanics he didnt know

quote:

Originally posted by bigheat27-42:

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
[QUOTE] The last time (last year) my son approached him the coach publicly humiliated him. The first time my son hit a homer he stuck out his hand rounding third and the coach stepped away and folded his arms. He's having an awesome year and the coach has said nothing positive to him. After the team wins he rips whatever they did wrong. He has said nothing positive to any of the three showcase players even though they are all having excellent seasons. He has mentally abused one of the showcase players (not my son) so badly the kid has a fu attitude towards the coach (in private).

i know how you feel. my coach has done nothing for me. i have had 10 at bats this season, never have batted above ninth and am second on the team in home runs. i throw from 80 to 87 as a freshman still playing freshman because they dont pull up (which i uderstand but still...) and had 19 k's in my first 7 innings. when i asked my coach why i wasnt playing and more specifically what i could do to get more play time, he blew me off and told me it was the depth chart and to keep working when i am one of the only people who actually tries to get better during practice. my coach doesnt let me throw bullpens in practice and put me in after not trowing for two weeks then when i was asking him about my mechanics he didnt know. i am counting down the days unitl summer because i have no patience for my highschol program. im just lucky the varsity coach isnt this bad.

This isn't a rag on coaches and playing time discussion. This is a discussion on varsity coaches damaging college playing opportunities for their players.

quote:

This isn't a rag on coaches and playing time discussion. This is a discussion on varsity coaches damaging college playing opportunities for their players.

i wasn't trying to rag on coaches i was trying to give an example of how they can screw uo a players chance at the next level. travle coaches will do more for a player than a highschool coach will imo. sorry if it came off that way and i have edited and taken out part of it so hope that helps make my point a little clearer