How do you handle it when your kid's HS pitching coach wants a program that's rooted in the 1980s-90s and in direct opposition to your club's or prospective college's program.
I thought my son was being dramatic last year when he told me the coach wants all their pitchers to throw 5 bullpens a week and wanted them to throw 45-50 from the mound the day before every start.
I don't talk to any of my son's school coaches about baseball. I can already sense my son's frustrations though.
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We got a letter from our orthopedic and our PT guy that limited our son’s pitches. Took care of the problem.
I never spoke with my sons' HS coach who I didn't care for. My thought was unless he's doing something that may injure them, I'm not getting involved.
In my 2022's senior year the coach left my son in for too many pitches in an early season start in what ended up being a blowout win. It was more pitches than is allowed in our conference and against the rules.
I was not happy but my son said he'd take care of it. A few days later at practice he spoke with the coach about limiting his pitch counts. The couch as was known to do, launched into an angry tirade and said something along the lines of "If you don't want to pitch for us, you don't have to....".
To say I was pissed would be an understatement...After taking time to cool off, I emailed the athletic director and pointed out that 1) A player should be able to voice concerns to the coach regarding his health and 2) This was a result of him throwing too many pitches in the previous game.
The AD responded in a politic type way CC'ing the HC which is what I expected and I would have left it at that but the HC insisted he did not pitch him more than conference rules allowed.
Our team kept a traditional scorebook and also used it for pitch counts. This was kept by a player not playing. I knew the coach of the opposing team who used iscore. I asked him what his count was and it was of course over the legal limits (more so than we initially thought). My son pitched a CG so it couldn't have been a result of not entering a pitching change. It was pretty much impossible to be off without it messing up pace of the game in iscore.
I responded back with screenshots and more detail. Crickets...But at the rest of the games that season there were multiple kids doing the book and pitch counts. I could have gone further, I have a good friend that knew the commissioner of the conference, but IMO that wouldn't have been fair to the rest of the team if any actions were taken. All I cared about was the health of my son, and maybe me bringing this up would prevent it from happening to anyone else.
TL;DR If you are concerned about your kid's health and well being speak up, but teach your kid to do it first.
@Master P posted:How do you handle it when your kid's HS pitching coach wants a program that's rooted in the 1980s-90s and in direct opposition to your club's or prospective college's program.
I thought my son was being dramatic last year when he told me the coach wants all their pitchers to throw 5 bullpens a week and wanted them to throw 45-50 from the mound the day before every start.
I don't talk to any of my son's school coaches about baseball. I can already sense my son's frustrations though.
Before I respond further being a coach from the 80s and 90s, what is the program your son wants to throw?
We need an "old school" coach support group on this board. 😁
There is a ton that can be learned from old school experience, but there have been a few good ideas made in the last 30 years.
Some of these guys refuse to evolve.
@CoachB25 posted:Before I respond further being a coach from the 80s and 90s, what is the program your son wants to throw?
He DOESN'T want to throw a full 100% bullpen for 40-50 pitches the day before he makes a start. His club program is long toss, Yoga, catch daily, short box 2 days before a start.
@Master P posted:He DOESN'T want to throw a full 100% bullpen for 40-50 pitches the day before he makes a start. His club program is long toss, Yoga, catch daily, short box 2 days before a start.
Please ask your son to video tape 50 pitch bullpen guy's face when he tells him about yoga.
Yoga and Pilates worked for Jake Arrieta…and got him a cover as a bonus.
MasterP
Nolan Ryan https://www.google.com/search?...yan+training+routine.
Not all pitchers are Nolan Ryan, each pitcher should determine his personal best routine. The availability of information from Professional pitchers will assist the young pitcher to develop his program.
When we traveled Internationally to Japan, Korea Australia, I always included a former MLB pitcher as a Coach. Our American HS players received a 2 week clinic.
During the Area Code games, I included a 3 hour clinic for pitchers, infielders and hitters. Eric Davis, Dusty Baker, Tom House, Dave La Roche were a few of our instructors.
Ask the question to the Coach, Why? Remember you only have one pitching arm. "Save it"! Does your coach understand "Team pitching"?
Bob
@Consultant posted:Ask the question to the Coach, Why?Bob
Last year my son asked the coach where he got his pitching program. The guy said, "This is what I did in college 25 years ago and I only lost one game."
@DaddyBaller posted:Please ask your son to video tape 50 pitch bullpen guy's face when he tells him about yoga.
@Master P posted:Last year my son asked the coach where he got his pitching program. The guy said, "This is what I did in college 25 years ago and I only lost one game."
They also used to think it was good to smoke cigs in the dugout
@DaddyBaller posted:We need an "old school" coach support group on this board. 😁
There is a ton that can be learned from old school experience, but there have been a few good ideas made in the last 30 years.
Some of these guys refuse to evolve.
Re: not evolving
There was a coach I referred to as having one year of experience thirty times.
Stsrting at age eleven in LL through high school I finished every game I started. Pitch counts weren’t a thing. I’m guessing in middle school and Babe Ruth ball I probably pitched a bunch of 150 pitch games. It was before I had great control from sixty feet and dominated hitters. I never expected any kid I coached to throw over one hundred pitches. Just because I never hurt my arm doesn’t mean someone else won’t.
When I was fifteen our junior high season finished on Thursday. Babe Ruth coach had me start opening day on Saturday. When I pointed out I would only have one day of rest he asked if it was a problem.
My arm was right Saturday. I had three speeds, slow, slower d even slower. Everyone was out in front waiting for the fastball. It was the sloppiest no hitter I ever pitched. As someone joked about Mike Cueller’s stuff, “Here’s a rotten cabbage. How far can you hit it?”
My son’s last year of LL was the last year before pitch counts. One of our all star pitchers threw a no hitter whiffing fifteen, walking seven and hitting five. The three batted outs were foul outs. I wasn’t a coach. I can’t begin to imagine how many pitches he threw over six innings. My son was the catcher. He was black and blue the next day from blocking or trying to block so many wild pitches.
The kid had horrible pitching mechanics. I had him during the regular season. He wouldn’t take coaching. His father would get pissed at me all season for lifting him at one hundred pitches or forty in an inning. Yes, the kid had three whiff, five walk innings.
@Master P posted:He DOESN'T want to throw a full 100% bullpen for 40-50 pitches the day before he makes a start. His club program is long toss, Yoga, catch daily, short box 2 days before a start.
I don't disagree with not throwing the day before a start. So, he doesn't throw bullpens any other day with the exception of two days before he pitches?
Per the advice that I have given for years on this site, if you don't like the high school's plan or approach, take your son off of the team. You can find plenty of places for him to throw one day a week.
@CoachB25 posted:I don't disagree with not throwing the day before a start. So, he doesn't throw bullpens any other day with the exception of two days before he pitches?
From what i understand that's correct.
@Master P posted:From what i understand that's correct.
Well, you have to do what you think is right by your son. In my program, he wouldn't pitch because I would be worried that his arm was not ready. To each their own. The vast majority of my players including pitchers went to college to play and a decent number made it to professional ball including MLB. I guess times change.
As an aside, I had the benefit of a trainer to work with my staff and they had several advantages that other programs don't have.
@Master P posted:Last year my son asked the coach where he got his pitching program. The guy said, "This is what I did in college 25 years ago and I only lost one game."
Maybe he wouldn't have lost that one game 25 years ago if he had a better pitching program. ;-)
So, essentially he is telling your son that his pitching program is at least 25 years old, and he must have got that throwing program from somebody before him. For all you know, the coaches coach could have developed the program 25 years before your son's coach was asked to use it as a player 25 years prior which would make the program 50 years old for example. Bottom line....his response is absurd, and is going to get kids hurt.
We know so much more now about kinetic movement for athletes. Pitching a baseball on an elevated mound (significant more g-force than flat ground) is a kinetic chain of violent and explosive movements. It needs to be managed and monitored accordingly. My son's ortho (his kid was a college pitcher) told us pitching a baseball is an injury waiting to happen. He said it is not a matter of "if" but a matter of "when".
@Master P - this approach/program from the HS Coach has the potential to really injure your son. This is my one exception (medical) for parents getting involved with coaches. I would request a meeting with the 3 of you, and explain that he already has a pitching program that works best for him and he'd like to stick with it. Prior to the meeting, I would try to get some kind of referral or documentation to share with the coach so he can try to understand your reasoning. If there is push back from the HS Coach then your son has a decision to make.
As always, JMO.
We had coaches that had programs they wanted my son to follow. We live in a small town with a pretty well known guy who is widely respected as The Guy to send your kid to for pitching. When someone told Duncan they wanted him to do something different, he just told the coach "okay, but I need to check with Pete first, or do you want to talk to him?"
Dear Lord, @CoachB25 had some amazing Tigers teams! They routinely beat they daylights out of anyone and everyone on the schedule, and they didn't duck anyone. Chicagoland was loaded with great teams, and Edwardsville routinely beat the tar out of them, going 40-0 one year!! The coaching staff was doing something right!!
As a "Chicago guy" who graduated from a "big" HS in the 80's, we never gave much thought to the competition from Southern Illinois in most sports in those days ( East St. Louis football and Granite City/Collinsville soccer being the exceptions). Heck, anything south of I-80 may as well have been Kentucky to those of us north of the line. During the 90's, everyone in Illinois came to know who E'ville was as they became (and still are) an athletic powerhouse. My wife is from nearby Alton, and we both graduated from SIU-Edwardsville and got to witness the rise of the Tigers. Kids of our friends played baseball and other sports at Edwardsville. Great coaches in all sports turning out great kids, year after year after year.
My HS played E'ville in the football playoffs in the 90's, traveling 5 hours south to take on the undefeated and heavily favored Tigers and came out with a win that no-one saw coming except for us northerners -- and we had our doubts. After the game, we were at PK's restaurant and Tigers fans were congratulating our fans and commenting on how well our team played. Great sportsmanship from great people!
@CubsFanInSTL posted:Dear Lord, @CoachB25 had some amazing Tigers teams! They routinely beat they daylights out of anyone and everyone on the schedule, and they didn't duck anyone. Chicagoland was loaded with great teams, and Edwardsville routinely beat the tar out of them, going 40-0 one year!! The coaching staff was doing something right!!
As a "Chicago guy" who graduated from a "big" HS in the 80's, we never gave much thought to the competition from Southern Illinois in most sports in those days ( East St. Louis football and Granite City/Collinsville soccer being the exceptions). Heck, anything south of I-80 may as well have been Kentucky to those of us north of the line. During the 90's, everyone in Illinois came to know who E'ville was as they became (and still are) an athletic powerhouse. My wife is from nearby Alton, and we both graduated from SIU-Edwardsville and got to witness the rise of the Tigers. Kids of our friends played baseball and other sports at Edwardsville. Great coaches in all sports turning out great kids, year after year after year.
My HS played E'ville in the football playoffs in the 90's, traveling 5 hours south to take on the undefeated and heavily favored Tigers and came out with a win that no-one saw coming except for us northerners -- and we had our doubts. After the game, we were at PK's restaurant and Tigers fans were congratulating our fans and commenting on how well our team played. Great sportsmanship from great people!
@CubsFanInSTL thank you for the kind words about those teams that I was so blessed to be a part of as a coach. As you know, those teams had great players. When asked about my coaching career, I am the first person to point out that the success of those teams was due to the players. They bought in and we won a lot. As a coaching staff, we were always doing our best to keep up with all of the changes to the game. Personally, I talked to coaches for the Cardinals, Royals and Texas Rangers to pick their brains on how to improve as a coach. Five players made it to MLB and I would ask for any info I could get regarding both hitting and pitching. I was the hitting coach at that time. After the 40-0 season, I moved to Triad and it has become an excellent program. Again, thanks for the kind words. I love those guys and stay in touch with many of them. Being an old guy now, what is so funny is that those guys from the two high schools now get together and when they do, they tell "Coach B" stories. Apparently, they have a blast doing so. LOL
CoachB25:
Do you remember the name Joe Lutz former MLB player, former College Coach at Southern Illinois. We both played in the Basin League.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Lutz
Bob
@Consultant posted:CoachB25:
Do you remember the name Joe Lutz former MLB player, former College Coach at Southern Illinois. We both played in the Basin League.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Lutz
Bob
No, he was just a little bit ahead of my time. My first dealings with SIUC was when I had a young man who wanted to play for Itchy Jones at SIUC. I drove him down there to meet Itchy and let Itchy know about this young man. Unfortunately for me, I left the lights on in my car so, I had a dead battery when it was time to leave. Coach Riggleman helped me get security to come jump my car. LOL
BTW, Itchy thought that that young man was a little too small. The young man went on to help us win state and became an All-American at another school before he made it to MLB.
