My son will (hopefully) be playing 9th grade Highschool baseball , this Spring. Are Stats recorded at that level? and if so, who records the Stats?
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The book is kept by anyone from a girl in the dugout who is flirting with the guys while half paying attention to the game to a parent who is padding his son’s stats. Or you could get someone who takes the job seriously. He pisses off parents who harass him to change scoring until he decides it isn’t worth it.
in JV ball a kid on the bench who didn’t like my son kept score. He recorded half his hits as errors. The coach eventually did the stats and discovered his best hitter was hitting .200 and not .400.
The moral of the story … Swing the bat well. The coach makes the lineup. Don’t worry about stats.
At our high school, they read out every player's best stats at the award banquet. The freshmen team always had the best numbers, the j.v. less good, and the varsity the worst. But, the best freshmen were put on varsity or j.v. Hm.
Ok, thx , folks. I guess i'll just make up stats for my boy. I'm sure the stats will get better each time I tell of the story-LOL
As stated above somebody is sure to keep stats. Is it important, not really. Will people try to use inflated stats to justify why their kid should play, yep.
I volunteered to do GC for son’s HS team last season. I figured if the school banned spectators because of Covid being scorekeeper would ensure I was able to attend. Horrible experience. Arguments over passed balls/wild pitches, earned runs, hits/errors, parents from other teams bitching because I had the wrong number/name/whatever for their kid.
If you have the time and can do it discreetly, you should try to video his ABs. Being the sitting away from the parents in the OF dad afforded me opportunities record his ABs. This was helpful to the kid and also useful for his recruiting even with poor angles. I guess his future hitting coach wanted to evaluate his approach and timing.
HS stats are of little use for recruiting. level of play varies drastic. The smallest schools often don't have enough skilled players, so balls that would be outs against competitive teams are hits. The velo is slow. The defense is poor. The field surface is not smooth. Etc. Which is why summer events are more credible for scouts.
KISS Method.
Freshman - who cares (parents)
JV - same as Freshman
Varsity (check out above)
Note, the coach knows who he wants on his varsity team and should get necessary feedback from the assistant coaches.
Coaches might also be recording stats on a website like maxpreps.
Note, IMHO I don't think colleges look at HS stats in detail. They would want to see you perform at a showcase or camp and determine if your son can play said level of baseball.
As stated by @2022NYC just record in your sons AB and if he pitches his outings.
Benefits:
- It keeps you quiet and not fall into the parent comment trap
- provide the feedback to your son without directly providing him feedback. A video is worth a thousand words.
- supply insights to his hitting or pitching coach for small tweaks
- you have a lifetime of memories
Note, in the 4 years of HS varsity baseball, I very rarely initiated comment on my sons HS games.
All that I told the coach was by junior year, the team would vy for the state championship.
Keep everything in perspective and enjoy your son's journey.
@Adams Baseball posted:My son will (hopefully) be playing 9th grade Highschool baseball , this Spring. Are Stats recorded at that level? and if so, who records the Stats?
In my experience, high school coaches who value high school stats for their team and other teams (competitive data) will have someone qualified to do so. My youngest son's high school coach did value these stats and had a retired former coach (with no sons on the team) keep his stats. His team was ALWAYS in the hunt for the regional and state level playoffs.
Contrast that with my two older sons who went to a different high school than youngest son. A student volunteer (usually a cute girl) was taught how to keep score, and was given the scorebook. In my two olders son's combined 8 years of high school baseball, their team made the regional playoffs twice. Never to the state playoffs. IMO they had talent, the coaches just didn't know how to use the talent they had.
I think that tells an interesting story of high school scorekeeping. The data is right there and can be used to make competitive game decisions (youngest son's coach) or the data can be ignored and left to chance.
I hope your son makes the high school team and he has a Coach like my youngest son.
Again, just my experience
When I coached I had the Pitcher from the previous day keep the scorebook. This duty keeps him in the game and he can evaluate the weakness and strength of his team and the opponent. In the scorebook are his notes for the Coach to read. Another pitcher role is to "steal" the opponent signals. The baseball field is a classroom and the Coaches are teachers.
Bob
@Consultant posted:When I coached I had the Pitcher from the previous day keep the scorebook. This duty keeps him in the game and he can evaluate the weakness and strength of his team and the opponent. In the scorebook are his notes for the Coach to read. Another pitcher role is to "steal" the opponent signals. The baseball field is a classroom and the Coaches are teachers.
Bob
@consultant
That's old school.
My coach had us doing the same.
You definitely get to appreciate the game and pick up on the little details.
Everybody has a role, every game. There are no days off.
Good stuff.
@Consultant posted:When I coached I had the Pitcher from the previous day keep the scorebook. This duty keeps him in the game and he can evaluate the weakness and strength of his team and the opponent. In the scorebook are his notes for the Coach to read. Another pitcher role is to "steal" the opponent signals. The baseball field is a classroom and the Coaches are teachers.
Bob
I wonder how many kids on my son’s high school team knew how to keep score. I did the book, posted stats, maintained the website (along with a lot of recruiting information) and wrote the first draft of the newspaper article for the coach for two years.
After two years of calls after posting the box score on the website I gave up. Another dad took over the book and the website. His son led the team in hitting. From LL through high school and travel his son led every team in hitting he played on and dad kept the book. It was so blatant most other parents just laughed at it. At least the kid was a good player.
@RJM posted:I wonder how many kids on my son’s high school team knew how to keep score. I did the book, posted stats maintained the website (along with a lot of recruiting information) and wrote the first draft of the newspaper article for the coach for two years.
After two years of calls after posting the box score on the website I gave up. Another dad took over the book and the website. His son led the team in hitting. From LL through high school and travel his son led every team in hitting he played on and dad kept the book. It was so blatant most other parents just laughed at it. At least the kid was a good player.
Good one
@bandera posted:HS stats are of little use for recruiting. level of play varies drastic. The smallest schools often don't have enough skilled players, so balls that would be outs against competitive teams are hits. The velo is slow. The defense is poor. The field surface is not smooth. Etc. Which is why summer events are more credible for scouts.
In threads like this there’s always lots of dunking on HS scorekeepers, no doubt justified. But the inflationary effect of “level of play” as Bandera notes here is more important IMO. For example, let’s say you have a speedy kid. A weakly hit slow roller to short is usually by definition a base hit against “ordinary effort” by an average HS player. It’s usually a 6-3 putout at any college level I’ve seen.
I think HS stats are interesting more as a disqualifier.
Hitting 300 in HS doesn't mean you are a college prospect but if you hit 150 with 30% strikeouts there probably is something wrong with you.
If I was a recruiter I would only look for two stats:
1. K%
2. ISO
That doesn't replace seeing the player in games and level of play does matter but I would still look at those two stats to see if they are at least OK.
If the player has a low K rate (under 10-15%) and a decent iso (150+) it is likely that he at least can somewhat hit and if he has 25% Ks and a sub 100 iso I think there is something wrong.
That of course doesn't replace seeing the swing and watching live action against good pitching but it is at least a hint.
The k% and iso thing works great in pro ball too, sub 20 k rate and 200+ iso and you 99% have guaranteed a good player even without seeing average, ops or obp, however at that level I would also include bb rate.
Years ago I created a Stat with k, bb and iso that almost perfectly predicts hitting performance at the pro level
Being in charge of the GC last year forced me to be more engaged when other kids are hitting. Some things I noticed; there are strikeouts and there are bad strikeouts, there are kids 0-10 but hit it hard every time, then there are kids who are just plain lucky.
My son started out hitting .600+ the first half. Parents were saying coach should move him from 8 to 1-3. I said he is just where he needed to be. Ended the year around .375, which is more where I expected him to be. I give the coach a lot of credit, he uses stats for decisions when they make sense and uses the eye test where it makes sense.
True story. At the end of the 2021 HS season, a news outlet had a wrap-up feature and selected players as being outstanding based on their stats. A neighboring HS had quite a few kids mentioned and honored. And, I know these kids. I couldn't believe the numbers. Fat, slow kid with 15 triples in 22 games. Another kid who has always been a B team player batting .750 on the season. Another kid who was a bench player having 30 steals.
Something was fishy. So I asked my son who has a buddy on the team. He told me that one of the kids messed with the stats after the last game and the coach didn't notice it when he submitted them.
@Francis7 posted:True story. At the end of the 2021 HS season, a news outlet had a wrap-up feature and selected players as being outstanding based on their stats. A neighboring HS had quite a few kids mentioned and honored. And, I know these kids. I couldn't believe the numbers. Fat, slow kid with 15 triples in 22 games. Another kid who has always been a B team player batting .750 on the season. Another kid who was a bench player having 30 steals.
Something was fishy. So I asked my son who has a buddy on the team. He told me that one of the kids messed with the stats after the last game and the coach didn't notice it when he submitted them.
It was funny to see my son on the top of the list for hitting, OBP, and OPS for all of Palm Beach County for a few weeks (as a sophomore!). Palm Beach is loaded with talent. On one hand I was a little relieved when he came back down because I didn’t want people saying I was cooking the books. On the other, he earned those numbers. Thankfully none of his hits were questionable.
Before I found hsbbw, I went crazy over newspaper stats, which were, as Francis7 says, cited in All Area listings. The numbers were often flat-out wrong, as in, they would list hits and at-bats, but the listed BA would not match those numbers. Something was going on, but I never figured out what.
In the bigger picture they do not matter at all, but on a local level they do matter. No-one who reads the newspaper cares what a pitcher's top fastball is. It's about winning, and it's about which kids, who played together from the age of 5, were the best at age 18.
Do not matter after HS...i did track son's K's and follow that within Cobb County schools. I announced the home games and one or our mom's kept the book, she is an attorney and she was good.
The only reason I can think of that stats may be important as for all-league or all-state recognition, though even at that, depending on the level competence of the stats folks for each team they can be ridiculously off from reality. It's normal here where PBR does their all-state selections to see kids my son knew either personally, from summer ball or having grown up playing with/against to have stats that everyone knew were ridiculously inflated. There can't be 15-20 kids in each of the 4 divisions here that hit .500+ lol.....especially when some of them are on teams that went 4-22
I didn’t do the book the first couple of games soph year. I was doing the website and stat accumulation. I had to call a dad who was recording the games for verification of the scorebook done by one of the girls. I was seeing things in the book I couldn’t recollect. She was calling fielder’s choices singles. There weren’t any errors in the book. Every error was a hit. Throwing a grounder in the first base stands was a double.
Ahhhhh..... HS Stats. We can (and have) talk about this a thousand different ways. Try to keep things in perspective. It is something you can't control. If you try to, it will almost always turns out bad. If a player is good, these things will take care of themselves... not necessarily entirely, but certainly enough. Control what you can control. Be the best player you can be. Keep working hard. Best players will eventually be recognized as such, one way or another.
This brings us to something that has always bothered me about high school sports. Basketball, soccer, football, volleyball, ... all have scorekeepers paid for by the school. They are also arranged by the school. Why are baseball and softball the two sports that the school district does not supply scorekeepers?
I had a coach who asked to be on staff at first to keep the book. He is a "stats geek." He did advance his knowledge base and became an incredible asset in other phases of the game. Right now, I have a coach keeping the book while coaching first base. It is the best I can do now where I am at. For the most part, I believe that they are accurate stats. Consistently parent's books and the official book will not match. That is the way it is.
Finally, while the common argument is that stats don't matter, they are extremely important for post-season awards. I know because I sat on the selection committee for a decent metropolitan area where all area teams were selected. I also served for a smaller amount of time on a committee that picked All-State. The vast majority of the coaches on those committees don't have the ability to see all of these nominated players. The best I could do personally was make myself well versed about conferences and top programs in the state and/or area. Then, measure various stats against what I knew.
In high school softball it’s not unusual for pitchers to pitch every game. My daughter played in an eight team conference. They played fourteen conference and eight non conference games. Our conference had two dominant teams, my daughter’s and another. There was one other almost at their level team in the conference.
One coach held his star pitcher out of the four games against the two dominant teams. She finished 10-0 in division and 17-1 overall. The team finished 17-5. At the awards meeting the coach tried to argue his pitcher was better than the two top pitchers who went 13-1 in division (beat each other once) and 20-2 overall. After all, his pitcher was undefeated in conference (because she dodged four games against the dominant teams).
I always thought that in HS the umpires should make a ruling on hit or error. They may not do a better job than a dad or coach but at least they are probably less biased.
Definitely disagree on putting the umps in that position. They get enough people giving them the business on balls and strikes, I can't imagine what it would be like for errors and hits.
Nobody cares about high school stats. Certainly not college coaches. My kid hit .400 in his Senior year of high school with a .700+ Slugging Percentage, and still ended up at a D3 (which is the correct level for him btw)
@3and2Fastball posted:Nobody cares about high school stats. Certainly not college coaches. My kid hit .400 in his Senior year of high school with a .700+ Slugging Percentage, and still ended up at a D3 (which is the correct level for him btw)
High school stats don’t matter for recruiting. They only matter for local publicity and all whatever teams.
"Nobody cares about high school stats."
"They only matter for local publicity".
For many people, this is all there is. Playing baseball is not only and always about getting to the next level, it's about playing baseball where you are. I guess by that reckoning, college stats don't matter either. Heck, why do MLB stats matter? Do you go to a game to see a bunch of stats, or to see the athleticism and competitiveness of the teams, to watch thrilling plays, to see if players can hit a pitcher's fastball, to experience the tension of a tie game in the bottom of the 9th? To enjoy cheering for all that with a large crowd while drinking beer and eating hotdogs?
All of that can happen in a HS game too, except for the beer.
Stats are a big part of baseball. At the major league level the average fan knows a lot more about baseball stats than other major league sports.
At the high school level even if stats are done well the accuracy of tying stats in small numbers to talent is potentially more skewed than any other level. If a kid gets one hundred at bats in a high school league every hit is worth ten points. One four for four game moves a batting average forty points. It could be the difference between .260 and .300. At the college and pro level stats in large numbers tell you how good the player’s season has been.
My soph year of high school I played in New England. We had eighteen games. I got about sixty something plate appearances and about fifty something at bats. I had a five for five game against a weaker team. It moved my average one hundred points. One game moved my average from about .300 to about .400 making me first team all conference. My coach took the .400 number to the awards meeting. I was good for a soph. But I shouldn’t have been first team that year.
@RJM posted:Stats are a big part of baseball. At the major league level the average fan knows a lot more about baseball stats than other major league sports.
At the high school level even if stats are done well the accuracy of tying stats in small numbers to talent is potentially more skewed than any other level. If a kid gets one hundred at bats in a high school league every hit is worth ten points. One four for four game moves a batting average forty points. It could be the difference between .260 and .300. At the college and pro level stats in large numbers tell you how good the player’s season has been.
My soph year of high school I played in New England. We had eighteen games. I got about sixty something plate appearances and about fifty something at bats. I had a five for five game against a weaker team. It moved my average one hundred points. One game moved my average from about .300 to about .400 making me first team all conference. My coach took the .400 number to the awards meeting. I was good for a soph. But I shouldn’t have been first team that year.
Kind of off topic RJM, but the numbers you used reminded me of my freshman year of college. I played very little and in a late season game when I was called to pinch hit, I knew that likely was going to be my last AB of the year. I literally calculated in the dirt on deck what my average would be if I got a hit. Get a hit and I could go home for the summer and tell people I hit .300. Make an out and I was at .260. I got the hit and I'm pretty sure I was 7 for 23 for the year 
anyone ever hear what happened to the man who posted as Scorekeeper ?
he always was adamant about accurate stats..... to say the least
@High Change Ups Go A Long Way posted:Kind of off topic RJM, but the numbers you used reminded me of my freshman year of college. I played very little and in a late season game when I was called to pinch hit, I knew that likely was going to be my last AB of the year. I literally calculated in the dirt on deck what my average would be if I got a hit. Get a hit and I could go home for the summer and tell people I hit .300. Make an out and I was at .260. I got the hit and I'm pretty sure I was 7 for 23 for the year
Similar situation … Freshman year I was a situational lefty and part time outfielder. I was recruited as an outfielder. In our last game of the season I went 4-4. It raised my average from .260 to .320. Given my 0-16 start with 7 whiffs to my college career it was a nice finish. It set me up to be a starting outfielder the next season. I was only pitching to fill a hole.
After the hitting start I was petrified the coaching staff was going to tell me I was a pitcher only. I wanted to be an outfielder only. I raised my hand when the coach screamed, “Is there an effing lefty who can come out of the pen throwing strikes?”
Play to win...stats take care of themselves.
South Australia
when our American teams played the South Australia State Teams in December the Australia scorekeepers [4 ladies] kept the scorebook with colored pens. I tried to break the code, but I was not successful.
@freddyG posted:anyone ever hear what happened to the man who posted as Scorekeeper ?
he always was adamant about accurate stats..... to say the least
dammit, Freddy, my twitch just came back
I don't know, but I miss Scorekeeper/Stats-for-Gnats. He did have a way of keeping the conversations lively...
@freddyG posted:anyone ever hear what happened to the man who posted as Scorekeeper ?
he always was adamant about accurate stats..... to say the least
He is/was getting up there in years and somehow I got the idea he was not in great health. I wouldn't be surprised if he's taken his game to the next level.
There use to be some epic threads on hitting as well....... but I won't mention any names 
I would hate for @cabbagedad twitch to turn into a convulsion