Skip to main content

55 replies

Hindsight: Recruiting mistakes

rocketmomrocketmom100+ posts
I thought it might be useful if those of us who have done this before would impart the wisdom (however small) gained in the process by sharing mistakes made. Here are ours: 1) putting "all our eggs in one basket" 2) being uneducated as to the significance of which division a school was in; i.e. not realizing that the level of play is not necessarily lower just because the division number is 3) assuming that a team showing alot of interest in the fall was a "done deal" 4) dismissing opportunities without having fully checked out the situation

Good Luck to all the 2010s!
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
quote:
Originally posted by rocketmom:
I thought it might be useful if those of us who have done this before would impart the wisdom (however small) gained in the process by sharing mistakes made. Here are ours: 1) putting "all our eggs in one basket" 2) being uneducated as to the significance of which division a school was in; i.e. not realizing that the level of play is not necessarily lower just because the division number is 3) assuming that a team showing alot of interest in the fall was a "done deal" 4) dismissing opportunities without having fully checked out the situation

Good Luck to all the 2010s!

Those are excellent points rocketmom!

We really do not have any regrets. That said, we had some blind-squirrel luck go our way. If I had to do things over again, I would not leave things up to chance like we did. Thus, I would have gotten my son more exposure via high-level showcases like PG. Even if we would have done that however, we could not have come up with a better opportunity for him.
Last edited by ClevelandDad
FungoFungoHighly Regarded and Beloved Old Timer
rocketmom good points and a good topic. You say:
quote:
unless the player is of the highest level DI caliber, there does seem to be alot of luck involved


I think there is a lot of luck involved for all players no matter what the level. There are a lot of unknowns whenever ANY player makes a commitment to a college. One could say the D-1 player faces greater athletic obstacles than the majority of the D-3 players thus failure could be more common at the D-1 level. I think it has to do with "fit" and we don't know how it fits until we wear it for a while. Big Grin
A myriad of unknowns exist no matter how thorough we are in our preliminaries estimations ----- academics, athletic, social adjustments and just being away from home can create unconquerable challenges for the players. I like the "blind squirrel" analogy used by CD because I think all players are blind squirrels looking for that acorn. As far as baseball goes I asked knowledge baseball people about my son and allowed their opinions to form my own. No matter how objective we consider ourselves the rose colored glasses do alter the parent's perspective.
Fungo
J J23100+ posts
Tough sledding in these economic times though.... Have a 2010 who is in the recruiting boat. Working on doing the best we can to showcase but, as most of our world, finance's preclude going to everything. That being said, 2010 is going to the Stanford Prospect Camp in June, wondering what other showcases/camps you all reccommend. Summer team not much help as we live in an area that's not conducive to travel ball exposure, at least on a national scale. So please fire some of that HSBBW wisdom towards Colorado....we need it (obviously the Rockies are clueless).

J23
F 3FingeredGlove1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by CADad:
The showcases get you on the radar, more signings result from performing well in the WWBA tournaments.
I suspect that is more true for pitchers than for position players. In a tournament game a pitcher may throw perhaps 100 pitches, and that is quite a bit of evidence. The position player may get in total 10-20 plate appearence. An outfielder may have only a handful of plays, with quite possible no opportunity to display his arm.

Just speculation on my part; I don't really know.
FungoFungoHighly Regarded and Beloved Old Timer
The point(s) that CADad makes about exposure is true but it sparks more discussions ---- just because a player attends numerous showcases and creates MORE options does nothing to improve success. The key point he makes is hidden in the next sentence

more signings result from performing well in the WWBA tournaments.

But even this can be confusing ---- just because a player signs doesn't mean he has succeeded (in my opinion). I think success is based on a player's ability to "fit" or "belong" at the college he signs and that only happens AFTER he settles in --- this may take a year before he knows. My son was in a unique position as he was a two way player (C/P). He received offers from all different divisions. Some offers came in for him to be a pitcher, to be a catcher, or to play both positions. While he had many offers only a very few (maybe just one) provided what he thought was a good fit. Finding a fit can be very difficult and again may be controlled by luck more than not.

Again I suggest you ask others. My son played summer ball for a coach that had played pro ball for many years (7 at the MLB level). This coach also had a son on the team that had some college potential. This coach (father) pulled me aside one day and asked me --- "At what college level do you think my son can play?" I was shocked that a MLB pitcher would ask me, someone that never got past HS baseball about where his son could play. I suggested he knew much more about baseball than I would ever know. He explained why he was asking --- "How would I know anything about where he can play, he's my son"!
Last edited by Fungo
B brod100+ posts
1. Ignoring "best fit" for "best chance to make the College World Series" in choosing a school

2. Going to a school where the coaching staff changed

3. Not clearly understanding that freshmen have to start at the bottom

Here's 3 more tips - Always make it a point to talk to parents who have "been there and done that."

Don't expect the HS coach to get you to the next level or help you in the recruiting process. Some will, but ultimately, it's up to the parent and the player

The key to recruiting is a PG showcase and/or Area Codes
PU Pop Up Hitter dad1,000+ posts
Good subject Rocketmom. Many of the other mistakes posted have been repeated by many. I tell all my baseball friends who have younger players to get on this website so they can benefit from our experiences. Here is Pop up son's list in order of magnitude.

1. Not taking academics seriously.

2. Assuming letters from big schools meant he did not have to respond or look for a place to go after HS.

Son did Jupiter, East Cobb, Arizona Junior Showcase and Area Code. Going to these events can help, especially if you get a hit or two or pitch lights out. Don't expect the phones to start ringing, or letters to flood in. Nope, none of that occurred. Son was seen at the Area Code tryout, a coach saw him, and that school was the only one to make an offer. We took it after speaking to ex-teammate's parents who went on to that program. I also visited that school recently and now my big concern is coach is doing so well, he may get recruited by big program. One last thing about Area Code, most of the players chosen for this have already committed to the large D1 programs, if your son hasn't been recruited by then, they are just a good ballplayer needed to fill out the roster.
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
quote:
Originally posted by Fungo:
The point(s) that CADad makes about exposure is true but it sparks more discussions ---- just because a player attends numerous showcases and creates MORE options does nothing to improve success. The key point he makes is hidden in the next sentence

more signings result from performing well in the WWBA tournaments.

But even this can be confusing ---- just because a player signs doesn't mean he has succeeded (in my opinion). I think success is based on a player's ability to "fit" or "belong" at the college he signs and that only happens AFTER he settles in --- this may take a year before he knows. My son was in a unique position as he was a two way player (C/P). He received offers from all different divisions. Some offers came in for him to be a pitcher, to be a catcher, or to play both positions. While he had many offers only a very few (maybe just one) provided what he thought was a good fit. Finding a fit can be very difficult and again may be controlled by luck more than not....

Great points Fungo. Much of my recruiting "expertise" comes from what I have read here on the hsbbweb and all that was learned after my son had signed. One thing I am adamant about though is I always trust my own judgment first. I would not allow a message board to make my decisions for me nor determine my strategies for that matter.

Recruiting is very simple when you think about it. It is talent plus exposure. If a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it, I can assure people that it does not make a sound. On the other hand, I have read hundreds if not thousands of stories here on the hsbbweb of kids who had ten times the amount of exposure mine had and ended up with lessor opportunities.

The thing to keep in mind with Fungo's comments is that signing-on with a college is the easy part. Actually finding your way on to the field is the toughest challenge most will ever face in their lives. Fit is crucial to ensure success. Here are some more of my thoughts that I formed before ever hearing of the hsbbweb:

1) Look for programs that win - regardless of level.

2) Find a program you are sure that wants you and build up from there. Some say they want to play at an ACC or SEC school and they start there. Nothing wrong with those aspirations but find a sure thing first and then work your way up from there.
TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
CD

I respectfully disagree with regard to winning programs---why not go to a program in a strong conference and has a strong schedule but they are not a winning program--if they ain't winning it ups the odds for freshman player to get playing time quickly

As for "big" programs how about this

I am listening to the Division III regionals right now and there are kids in the event who have played on our travel team---they are all starters on teams with a shot to go to the Division III World Series--may not be equal to Division I in some peoples eyes but these kids are playing on winning teams and could be huge winners--one of the players who is a junior at Trinity was with them last year as National Champs---it all depends on what you want as an individual
Last edited by TRhit
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
quote:
As for "big" programs how about this
77-6 over the last two years and in the undefeated bracket of the regional championship. I remember one of the kids saying last year, "UConn may be a lot better than us. But we practice and play just as hard." Some of these kids have put up such huge numbers over the past couple of years I'll guess they could play at higher levels. Last year's stud pitcher is. He's in the minors.
BW Bob Williams500+ posts
Fungo;

When I started the Area Code games in 1987, the pro scouts selected the players and the college coaches enjoyed the benefits. For this reason over 400 players who played in the tryouts and AC games have now played ML Baseball. Over 4,000 have played college baseball.

The association between the pro scouts and college coaches is very interesting and has continued for 26 years of our Goodwill Series.

The pro scout for both personal and human objectives
desires to "help" the player, who has "reasonable" talent. This "help" may be a "quiet" recommendation for the coach to see the player or to send information.

To summarize: play every inning, every practice with
100% energy and run to your position between innings. Do not sit in the dugout waiting for the coach to appear with the equipment. "I guarantee you, someone is watching"

Today, I watched a youth 13 year old game and in the final inning a runner crossed the plate and the next batter did not signal slide or "hold up" nor did he remove the bat from the baseline.

Fortunately the coach was one our former Legion players and I requested a 60 second meeting after the game, made my statement and departed.

The player will not forget next time. At 13 years of age he has a "second" chance. At 16-17 he does not!!!!

Please excuse the "long message".

Bob
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
Fungo,
I liked that story about the coach, one of the most important things in this process is to be objective.

Things worked well for our son, not sure of any mistakes, but I am sure we made a few along the way as well.

As far as chosing a winning program, that's not always possible for everyone. While there is no way I would want my player to attend a losing program, finding a place that he felt comfortable at (fit) with a good solid baseball program that is competitive year after year in it's conference should be the goal at any level. If your only goal is to play on a team that heads to Omaha each year, one has to understand that this may not be the best "fit" for everyone. More often than not players leave those type of programs searching for more playing time, which is now harder to do (transfer rules). A great situation is where a young staff is needed, that gives you more opportunity.

Each and every player has different goals, and that should be the basis for any decision.

And don't forget about the educational part of the whole process. Smile
B BillBill100+ posts
I'm extremely happy with the choice my son has made and so is he. However, three things stand out in my mind as to how we will do things differently with my other two boys.

1. Attend the Stanford Camp if invited. My son was invited but we didn't realize what a big deal it was.

2. Convince my son to sit when injured. My son played hurt almost his entire summer before his senior year, being hurt in the second scrimmage game for his travel team after high school. He wanted to play so bad that he played with the injury and minimized it to us, his parents. I think it hurt some of his opportunities since coaches who saw him assumed they were seeing him at 90-100%

3. Read even more HSBBW and ask more questions!!! I started reading HSBBW in 2005 and joined in 2006, so I had the benefit of three years to absorb the great knowledge offered on this website before the recruitment process started in earnest. I also read two books that were recommended. I still could have been better prepared for the process.
Last edited by BillBill
PU Pop Up Hitter dad1,000+ posts
BillBill, consider yourself very lucky, you get two more chances to do it right. Assuming of course your other two sons don't play s****r. Best wishes for you and your sons in the future.

Bob, son must not have "hustled" enough at AC games or he showed his poor "body language". He had five at bats, two HBP, one single, a K and a ground out. So he only batted .333. Oh well it was a nice vacation for us.
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
CD

I respectfully disagree with regard to winning programs---why not go to a program in a strong conference and has a strong schedule but they are not a winning program--if they ain't winning it ups the odds for freshman player to get playing time quickly

Fair enough. I'll clarify my points about winning. I have observed dozens and dozens of players associated with this message board say they would rather play D1 baseball rather than almost all else. Sometimes, they will settle for a loser at D1 just to fullfill that desire. Many times they overlook high power D2 or D3 opportunities that in retrospect might have provided a much better experience - academically and/or athletically. Losing (most or much of the time) is no fun imho and if you feel otherwise, we will just have to disagree on that point TR.

Secondly, being a big fish in a small pond in order to achieve playing time right away is not necessarily the best strategy for long term development imho. Sometimes it is better to have to scratch and claw and compete your way into the lineup on a stronger team rather than a lessor team. Obviously, these are personal decisions one has to make but I believe winning should be a strong consideration.
H HighCheese100+ posts
Look at schools like Duke and BC. GREAT schools that will finish at the bottom of the ACC. Look at a school like Fordham or Richmond. Below average conference, way above average education. The only guy I know that went to Fordham golfs 3 days during the week. Is there anyone here who wouldnt want to have their son get a degree from any of those schools? So the facilities arent as good, youll have a few more loses on your record, whatever. Dont forget that to 99.9% of the kids, baseball is a tool to help get into a school that they may not otherwise get into, and to help fund that education. If your kid is one of the .1% that will make it to the MLB, it doesnt matter where he goes for an EDUCATION, for everyone else, it matters A LOT.
infielddadinfielddad10,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
HighCheese

great points---if it were not for baseball many kids would not go to college---take advantage of the talents you have to move forward


TR, I would imagine we can all agree kids that are going to BC, Duke, Fordham and Richmond aren't the ones who wouldn't go to college if it were not for baseball.
But, there are schools that isn't necessarily true. I do think it is less true in baseball than other sports, though.
What I read CD and TR to both be saying, just using different approaches, is to go where you will be well coached.
While BC and Duke may have been at the bottom of the ACC at one time, the efforts of Pete Hughes and now Coach Aoki have made big difference at BC(likely to make the ACC playoffs and not a dormat, at all.) From what TPM posted, the same sounds true at Duke.
In my view, the common recruiting mistake most of us make, as Fungo capably pointed out, is not to really be able to project well what happens when the recruiting ends and the competition begins. What we project, we do with those "Rosey" glasses.
While I agree with CD that a focus on winning is important, I also agree with TR that a history of not winning may not be pivotal. The reason is because, in my view, what is pivotal in either approach is good coaching/good coaching staff and a program where your son will get better...if he does the work. It isn't too likely that a good coach/coaching staff will have a history of losing. But a history of losing can be changed by good coaches.
The thread I started about the Hendrix program and coaches would be a classic example this season. The importance of good college coaches being critical cannot be underestimated.
Failing to recognize that coach offering the $$$ might not be solid/good coach who has a history of developing and improving his players, or has a history of stockpiling/over recruiting really happens when we wear those darn glasses.
Failing to recognize that coach offering little, or nothing in the case of DIII's, is also a darn good college coach who develops his players can also be missed when we wear those "glasses" that tell us our son is DI or deserves more $$$$.
As Fungo also points out, success/mistakes are often related to fit. My opinion is that fit can be substantially related to effort, commitment and dedication...of the player.
This surely is where we as parents wear the "Rose Colored" glasses.
In 2003, a very good friend of our son was coming off a terribly disappointing season for himself. During that Summer, he spent time in the NECBL and mentally challenged himself to understand what had happened. He looked at his coaches, looked at his teammates, looked at what he had done on the field and off of it, and looked at every other aspect he could.
He then concluded and communicated that if a player does not succeed in that college program, he doesn't need to look anyplace other than in the mirror to find the reason.
To make a long story short, I believe the common mistakes include:
1.) Failing to understand/know who is a good/successful college coach and who isn't;
2.) Failing to understand and accept the level of talent of our son and the level of talent he will need to be successful in a program;
3.) Failing to understand/accept the level of commitment, dedication, sacrifice and improvement required everyday on a college baseball field to "make" a "good" fit:
4.) Failing to look in the mirror if it isn't a "fit."
Last edited by infielddad
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
quote:
Originally posted by infielddad:
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
HighCheese

great points---if it were not for baseball many kids would not go to college---take advantage of the talents you have to move forward


TR, I would imagine we can all agree kids that are going to BC, Duke, Fordham and Richmond aren't the ones who wouldn't go to college if it were not for baseball.
But, there are schools that isn't necessarily true. I do think it is less true in baseball than other sports, though.
What I read CD and TR to both be saying, just using different approaches, is to go where you will be well coached.
While BC and Duke may have been at the bottom of the ACC at one time, the efforts of Pete Hughes and now Coach Aoki have made big difference at BC(likely to make the ACC playoffs and not a dormat, at all.) From what TPM posted, the same sounds true at Duke.
In my view, the common recruiting mistake most of us make, as Fungo capably pointed out, is not to really be able to project well what happens when the recruiting ends and the competition begins. What we project, we do with those "Rosey" glasses.
While I agree with CD that a focus on winning is important, I also agree with TR that a history of not winning may not be pivotal. The reason is because, in my view, what is pivotal in either approach is good coaching/good coaching staff and a program where your son will get better...if he does the work. It isn't too likely that a good coach/coaching staff will have a history of losing. But a history of losing can be changed by good coaches.
The thread I started about the Hendrix program and coaches would be a classic example this season. The importance of good college coaches being critical cannot be underestimated.
Failing to recognize that coach offering the $$$ might not be solid/good coach who has a history of developing and improving his players, or has a history of stockpiling/over recruiting really happens when we wear those darn glasses.
Failing to recognize that coach offering little, or nothing in the case of DIII's, is also a darn good college coach who develops his players can also be missed when we wear those "glasses" that tell us our son is DI or deserves more $$$$.
As Fungo also points out, success/mistakes are often related to fit. My opinion is that fit can be substantially related to effort, commitment and dedication...of the player.
This surely is where we as parents wear the "Rose Colored" glasses.
In 2003, a very good friend of our son was coming off a terribly disappointing season for himself. During that Summer, he spent time in the NECBL and mentally challenged himself to understand what had happened. He looked at his coaches, looked at his teammates, looked at what he had done on the field and off of it, and looked at every other aspect he could.
He then concluded and communicated that if a player does not succeed in that college program, he doesn't need to look anyplace other than in the mirror to find the reason.
To make a long story short, I believe the common mistakes include:
1.) Failing to understand/know who is a good/successful college coach and who isn't;
2.) Failing to understand and accept the level of talent of our son and the level of talent he will need to be successful in a program;
3.) Failing to understand/accept the level of commitment, dedication, sacrifice and improvement required everyday on a college baseball field to "make" a "good" fit:
4.) Failing to look in the mirror if it isn't a "fit."

Great post infielddad!

I think you said better what I was trying to say. For me, evidence of winning is evidence of great coaching but not always as you and TR point out. That does not have to be controlling however. Sometimes, the player and family will realize that a great coach just has not turned the corner quite yet on his program.
SA S. Abrams100+ posts
Son is currently going through the recruiting process...is talking to the USMC and Navy recruiters quite a bit. LOL

He has one more year of HS left and is realizing that he really isn't academically mature enough for college right now. He could pursue the JUCO route now but he thinks he needs some of the skills the military will help him develop.

Skill wise, he is a JUCO/Div II in ability or a weaker DI. Decent HS carrer so far but injuries have hurt his progress (but not as much as academics). Several schools have looked at him but his academics have scared some off...personally, even if he was to recieve an offer I still believe the military is a better fit for where he is right now. That may change over his senior year but the damage has been done.

As you can see, neglecting academics has been my son's biggest issue. While opportunities are still available for him to pursue, many doors to other possibilities have been closed.
fanofgamefanofgame5,000+ posts
quote:
As you can see, neglecting academics has been my son's biggest issue. While opportunities are still available for him to pursue, many doors to other possibilities have been closed


I wish parents could get their kids to understand that concept.I know many try and they don't listen. My son had good grades out of HS and still went Juco route,I really think it was a good decision.Just the adapting to the schedule and demands of college and college baseball. I think boys that are on the border, and have struggled should go to a JC and mature some.
Getting out of a HS to a 4 year is much harder thaen getting out of a JC grade wise.If they can maintain a 3.0 in college they will be able to go just about anywhere.Most kids will drop a little from HS to college.
Biggest difference in most college classes is many don't give homework and grade is based on tests and papers, so not a lot of room to neglect their studies.
Good luck to your son.
Last edited by fanofgame
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
Because of new rules, gone are the days of just getting by in high school with academics to get a baseball scholarship. The only ones who may be able to get away with it are those that coaches sign and figure they won't set foot on campus anyway, but the player signing is good for recruiting.

This doesn't just apply to top level schools.

What I don't understand is why some parents spend so much effort in making their players better, but less effort in making them better students.

It's not really difficult to say to them, if you don't improve your grades, no sports. That will get their attention real quick.

I am repeating a story I have told before about a really great player from around here who told his folks he didn't have to worry about his grades because his ability would get the scholarship and the parents fell for it. Tons of interest from top schools, quickly faded after receiving the transcript.
CM Coach May1,000+ posts
The right fit? Some seem to believe that this means going to a program where you as a freshman can get on the field right away. Do you think your the only freshman coming into that program that has his eyes set on getting on the field as a freshman? Do you think that those guys that have been in the program for 1 2 3 4 sometimes 5 years are going to sit back and just let you take their posistion?

There are posistions at some high profile programs that you would have a better chance of playing early at than some JUCO's at certain posistions. Just because you step down in a level does not ensure playing time. What do you want to get out of the experience? What is most important to you? Are you willing to compete and maybe have to wait your turn? Or is it very important to you that you play right away? What happens when you dont play right away and that is the reason you went there in the first place?

Every kid is different and every situation is different. The bottom line is no matter where you go you are going to have to compete against other kids with the same desire and grit to get on the field. And guess what? Most of the players will not be playing. There are 35 guys on a roster and only 8 posistion players will play at a time. For the most part 8-10 of them will play the vast majority of the innings. And we know that 8 or 9 guys are going to throw the vast majority of the innings. The rest will have to wait their turn. That means about half the team will not be playing a significant amount and some will not play at all. Does that mean that all of those guys made a bad decision?

Right fit? It means something different to everyone. What is your fit? Know what that is. And then be willing to understand that you can make a good decision and things can still be hard. You can make a good decision and things can still go wrong. What you do when adversity comes and how you handle it will determine if you made a good decision when its all said and done.

The right fit for you could be 2 or 3 years of not playing very much and then playing alot. Or it could be playing right away only to be replaced your Jr year by a incoming freshman stud. How do you know? You dont know. You make the best decision you can make and then you make the most of your situation. You get that degree you play on a team and you make the very most out of the experience. And you leave with no regrets knowing you worked to be the very best you could be and you let the chips fall where they may. I can live with that.
Infield08Infield081,000+ posts
Excellent post, Coach May.

quote:
There are 35 guys on a roster and only 8 posistion players will play at a time. For the most part 8-10 of them will play the vast majority of the innings. And we know that 8 or 9 guys are going to throw the vast majority of the innings. The rest will have to wait their turn. That means about half the team will not be playing a significant amount and some will not play at all.


Your comment about playing time is so true and is corroborated by a look at playing time for my son's team this year:

Position Players
RF/DH (soph.) - 208 at bats
CF (jr.) - 229 at bats
SS (jr.) - 221 at bats
RF/DH (jr.) - 191 at bats
3B (jr.) - 169 at bats
LF (sr.) - 151 at bats
2B (jr.) - 184 at bats
C (sr.) - 176 at bats
1B (sr.) - 215 at bats
Back-up IF (freshman) - 53 at bats (filled in for injured 3B)
Back-up IF (freshman) - 44 at bats (filled in for injured 2B and 3B)
Back-up OF (freshman) - 62 at bats (shared position with LF)
Back-up OF (freshman) - 3 at bats
Back-up C (soph.) = 49 at bats
Back-up IF (fresman) - 4 at bats
Back-up IF (soph.) - 4 at bats
Back-up OF (sr.) - 5 at bats
Back-up OF (soph.) - 16 at bats
Back-up C (freshman - 0 at bats (redshirted)

It's pretty telling looking at the numbers - 9 position players got significant playing time, 4 back-ups got limited playing time, and 5 back-ups got little to no playing time.

Pitchers
Sr - 88 IP
Sr. - 72 IP
Sr. - 64 IP
Jr. - 54 IP
Freshman - 50 IP
Soph. - 42 IP
Freshman - 35 IP
Freshman - 26 IP
Jr. - 24 IP
Sr. - 10 IP
Jr. - 6 IP
Jr. - 3 IP
Soph. - 2 IP
Freshman - 2 IP
Jr. - 1 IP

9 pitchers threw 24 or more innings and 6 pitchers threw 10 or fewer innings all season.
Last edited by Infield08
B BobbleheadDoll5,000+ posts
You can use all the logic but you can't tell what will happen.
How would you like to be a SR and told by the new coaching staff that your role would be to mentor the freshmen and sophs ? ie SRs would not start conference games no matter how well you threw..
Coaching changes are the biggest problem and their is no way to predict that. I have seen very successful coaches leave a program after recruiting players. There is no way to anticipate this change.
Last edited by BobbleheadDoll
hokieonehokieone5,000+ posts
We're a few years past when our sons were recruited as one has graduated from college and the other starts his senior year in the fall, but some points of advice:

1. This expression means nothing: "He will have the opportunity to contribute right away". College players chuckle when they hear it or something similar. It's the recruiter's version of "I'll respect you in the morning". It's a line.

2. Go the school you like the most that wants you the most. If a school doesn't act much interested, it probably isn't. Best advice we ever got.

3. Look at rosters closely. Count the seniors. Ask why a school has 16 incoming freshmen, but only 3 graduating seniors.

4. Look at the stats. If a school has a hot shot sophomore at second that just made all conference, your kid isn't going to replace him. Not happening.

5. Distinctions between D I, II, and III aren't so much at a lot of schools and plenty of outstanding baseball is played at other than D I's playing in the World Series. Your top D I programs are obviously very high quality, but an awful lot of kids leave the big name schools after sitting for two years. A college head coach told me this week this: "You could put the top 10 D III, D II, Juco, and NAIA schools in a bag, shake them up and have one very competitive tournament."

6. Try, repeat, TRY, to be objective. The main thing at the end of the road is for your son to have had a good college experience, academically and athletically. If he gets to pro ball, great, but the odds are overwhelmingly against it, so focus on the college part. Pro ball will take care of itself for the fortunate few.

7. Pray....and see items 1-6.
B BostonBound10+ posts
I'll add one more caveat. We're in the thick of this nerve-wracking recruiting process with our 2010 son. But it's very clear he needs to learn certain things for himself (What's the real difference between DI vs DIII? How do I mesh with the coach and team? Do I want this academic environment?)

In short - we can't TELL him anything! Despite the fact that are pretty certain we know more than he does. Smile

The more of this process he does for himself and 'owns', the better his decision-making. We're letting him drive the process (even though I sometimes feel I've taken on a second job as his administrative assistant). So far, he's doing his homework, writing the coaches, and attending to the grades.

And we just have to hope that it all works out the way it's meant to.....
SA S. Abrams100+ posts
fanofthegame,
Alot of the academic issues my son has have started to to sink into his thick skull (I was tempted to use a 2x4 with a nail). Do I think his senior year will be better..yes, but like he says "I have already shot myself in the foot for not listening to you". Between injuries and academics, his junior year was a total bust.

My son has always had an interest in the military and probably was going to pursue it after college. Now he gets to pursue it without a commisssion....not exactly the preferred method of military life but one that will teach him some things that he has ignored. Hopefully, he will listen to my advice on survival in the military or he will get a very rude awakening.

The Corps is very,very good at getting a young man's attention. Many of you know exactly what I mean and are the better for it.
fanofgamefanofgame5,000+ posts
S.Abrahms,

I hope the best for your son.I think for some young men the military is a fine decision. I hope it all works out and he will begin to listen as time goes on. We just all need to remember what we were like at 17,18 and 19.
My parents never were involved with my school, tests scores, SAT , if you asked them they wouldn't of known.I took care of all of it,they cared about school but parents today are way more involved.
Maybe becasue its gotten so competitve to get into college so we push harder.
As far as fit , it is true what Coach May says, it depends on each family and their circumstances.For us financially the JC was a good choice, and he did'nt have a lot of options,for others its going to a Big school and working their way into the line up.One isnt better than another, and I dont think its a wrong deciaion if players want a better chance to play right away. It is their baseball, some dont want to sit , some do.
I think the main point of all these different threads is this: Whatever choice your son makes after HS, he just needs to keep his grades up, so he doesn't lose options. Keep all options open in case something comes along.If you blow the grades you have no options,but a junior college, and as mentioned before that isn't guaranteed play time either. Lots of those freshmen D1 guys decide to come back and they are good players.
CM Coach May1,000+ posts
I give this speech every year. "Its alot better to learn from others mistakes than it is to learn from your own." I go on to use myself as an example for all the players. But I also understand that at that age you think you know it all. You think you got it all figured out. And sometimes you have to get hit right in the head with a 2 by 4 to actually believe that it hurts to get hit in the head with a 2 by 4. Its all part of growing up and learning. The more things we can help kids avoid and learn by learning from our mistakes and others mistakes the fewer times they have to get hit by that 2 by 4. But lets face it they all are going to have to take their lumps just some a little more often than others. But the beauty of all of this is those lumps can make you a better person in the end and allow you to teach others down the road.

As much as we would all love to shelter our children our players etc from these bumps and never see them have to learn these tough life lessons we have to understand we can not shelter them from all of them. We teach we talk to try to guide them but in the end they are the one that must walk their own road. And along the way they are going to stumble and they are going to have some tough times. But we pray and we continue to assist them along the way and it is a wonderful feeling of pride in the end when we see them actually get it. Its all part of growing up and becoming a man both in the game of baseball and life itself.
P PGStaff10,000+ posts
Everytime I hear about the military I get a bad feeling. Back in 1966 I was a young outlaw living the life of Riley. Then I got one of those draft notices. No problem, I had a long list of injuries and so I pulled together the xrays from the doc and went to the recieving center. Figured I'd be back on the bus headed for home as soon as the physical was over. Well... I was right about the bus, but the one they put me on was headed to Ft Leonard Wood for Boot Camp! The beginning of two very long years in the military.

Of course, I might have felt different if it were West Point and baseball. The mental part made that impossible in my case.
CM Coach May1,000+ posts
PG thats funny to me! My dad was career military. All three of my brothers went in the military two made careers out of the military. As a frustrated guy out of hs and working 40 hours a week at a job I hated I woke up one day and went to the recruiters office. I took the asvab test and made the appointment to get on the bus in Durham for the short trip to Raleigh the next morning to get sworn in. I was sitting on the bus in Durham waiting for it to depart when a car pulls up. This very angry mom gets out and heads straight to the bus. "My son is not going in the Army. One of my boys is going to college." She comes on the bus , takes me by the arm and drags me to the car.

Dad is sitting in the car and says "Boy just shut up and understand your mom is determined your going back to school. So be quiet and do what she says." I did in fact enter college the next semester and the rest is history. I thank God everyday that mom did what mom did. But I sure was the most embarrassed guy in the world that day. LOL

By the way my older brother got his college degree from Baylor while serving in the military. My next brother got his degree from North Carolina Central Univ after getting out. I respect everyone that has ever served it is a most honorable profession. But sometimes moms just got to do what they got to do!
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
You can use all the logic but you can't tell what will happen.
How would you like to be a SR and told by the new coaching staff that your role would be to mentor the freshmen and sophs ? ie SRs would not start conference games no matter how well you threw..
Coaching changes are the biggest problem and their is no way to predict that. I have seen very successful coaches leave a program after recruiting players. There is no way to anticipate this change.


BHD,
This statement makes no sense. If you are speaking about the team your player was on, I noticed quite a few seniors started.
Coaches play the best players (no matter what their class), if a senior and a freshman are of equal ability, the senior will get more work at first, because experience sometimes rules over inexperience.
Most college coaches expect their older players to mentor the younger players. Actually, this is something that is considered when a coach recruits a player, will he provide leadership to others as he grows and matures.

Hokieone brings up very important points, however, for some programs will recruit same position players and convert them 9point #4). That's why it's good idea to not limit yourself to one position (not pitchers).
As to #3, you will now see more seniors on rosters due to new transfer rules, whereas in the past they left for other programs or the coach ran them off. Lack of seniors may also mean the program gets lots of player drafted.

Coaching changes can not be avoided, that's why it is very important not to choose the program for the coaching staff only. Baseball should be only one part of the college experience.

JMO
B BobbleheadDoll5,000+ posts
quote:
Coaches play the best players (no matter what their class), if a senior and a freshman are of equal ability, the senior will get more work at first, because experience sometimes rules over inexperience.
Most college coaches expect their older players to mentor the younger players



Why do you think I posted what I did ? What happened was unusual and totally unpredictable.
2 of our most successful pitchers were seniors. One was pitcher of the week in the Big South. He was always a top 4-5 guy. Sometimes coaches don't do what is logical. Mi son had several non conference starts and some conference relief work. Yes the SRs were upset but they did what they had to do.
The new coaches had nothing to do with recruiting and said they were looking forward to next year and wanted to see what they had to work with. Not exactly inspiring.
Don't always trust your logic.

Just to be clear, we wouldn't have changed a thing in the recruiting process. BB was a small part of the experience.
Last edited by BobbleheadDoll
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
BHD,
I did see that. That's why it made no sense (your post).

The the non conference games were against much tougher teams than in the conference (exception of 3 teams, IMO). Air Force, South Carolina, College of Charleston, Auburn, Tenn, Furman, Georgia Southern, these are tough teams. As a senior I would take that as a challenge. Perhaps that is where he felt he needed them the most, let his younger players develop against the less competitive conference teams.
B BobbleheadDoll5,000+ posts
TPM I wasn't complaining about my son's situation. It might have sounded that way.
He was told he would start against the best teams like USC etc. I was hoping for a tougher run at the conference because we have some strong pitchers. I was hoping for a better showing in the conference.

My point was that you can't always control your college BB experience even though you do your due diligence.
Last edited by BobbleheadDoll
PU Pop Up Hitter dad1,000+ posts
quote:
What I don't understand is why some parents spend so much effort in making their players better, but less effort in making them better students.

It's not really difficult to say to them, if you don't improve your grades, no sports. That will get their attention real quick.


TPM, you are right on the money. Take it from a dad who failed his son, if I had to do it all over again. No sports period without grades.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
PUHD,
You have been very honest regarding your son's situation and a good example of how not to do things. Thanks for all of your input.
But don't blame yourself, there does come a time when they have to take responsibility.
I hope that parents reading this will realize how much more is involved than just being talented on the field.
You do not have to be an A+ student, you just need to show the coaches that you can handle the rigors of a college and baseball schedule. That's more what they are looking for.

Add Reply

Post

Membership Required

We're sorry. You must be signed in to continue. Sign In or Register
×
Are you sure you want to remove from your Block List?
×
Loading...
×
When you block a person, they can no longer invite you to a private message or post to your profile wall. Replies and comments they make will be collapsed/hidden by default. Finally, you'll never receive email notifications about content they create or likes they designate for your content.
Note: if you proceed, you will no longer be following .
×
Advanced Search
Advanced Search
Link copied to your clipboard.
×