Hitting Coaches

I often wondered that myself.

My advice...get used to it.

I tried to educate myself as best I can and teach the "proper" mechanics to my kids myself. When they hear other coaches giving advice, they weight it against what we've been working on, and see if it works for them or not. Often I have to bite my tounge when I hear these coaches, and many times I just tell my boys to just kindly nod and ignor them.

You have to become your sons best coach.

Your learning is more important than his.

Compare everything the instructors say to video of the best doing it.

Linear

You should know bro

About becoming son's best coach.

By the way, believe when I say this publicly, bring the mass forward by turning is very evident in the video you sent me and there is something also there you can't teach and want to commend you for a job well done.

Thanks also for all the help and contributions here on this board.

Paul ***** would be proud of your pitching knowledge as well and I am reading every bit of information posted here and it is easy to see so many of the points brought out in the discussions here when actually evaluating present and future potential in prospects I have looked at in the field yesterday and today.

WoW!!! Didn't know how much the Shepster had learned!!!! Feel way ahead in the game and can actually make correct evaluations without getting hammered -LOL


Guess what I'm trying to say is the past few weeks of reading and posting here have been invaluable and helped tremendously. So many here have posted great insights that have come through many years of experience.

Thanks A Million to All,

Shep

It is hard to know who to trust as far as instruction goes. I have seen guys who were great major league players, be horrible instructors, and guys who couldn't play a lick be excellent teachers. But, I generally believe that former professionals have the best knowledge base to teach the facets of the game. I learned more my first Spring Training then I had learned from my college, high school, legion, etc coaches combined. Some guys have the gift of teaching and some guys don't. It is expensive to pay for private lessons, but it can be worth it if the dude knows what he is talking about and can communicate it. I have been doing private instruction for 15 years, (I've retired, now I do it for free at clinics, camps, high schools) and I feel I had great success with my pupils. Keeping it simple, speaking thier language, using terms and techniques they understand. And working them hard on the basics! Please find a guy who will keep it simple and not through too much philosophy at him. It this day and age we have gotten so technical and forgot the old adage, "Grad the bat and hit the ball!" or "See it and hit it." In Spring Training with the Mariners in 2003, I would watch Edgar Martinez first thing in the morning, and he wouldn't take a swing, he would just track balls, train his eyes. Ichiro as well. Then they would spend time letting the ball get deep, tracking it and try and hit it our of the catcher's glove. Just using thier hands and eyes. Training those correctly will pay huge dividends! I hope this helps.

AB

Troy99,
I'm a Dad and Coach and have went to Clinics
and bought several tapes to learn the best way to TEACH from my days of just doing it. I own
dvd's from Johnny Narron, Hitting Pros, Dave Hudgens, John Malee , and all are on the same page. I recommend you invest in www.mycoachonline.com and buy the yearly baseball section and you'll know how to teach better. One of the college coaches breaks the swing down very well as well as many other major college coaches. For a $50 investment
its like going to several clinics. Since I feel I'm better instructed I always ask my kids if anything is being taught differently. As you know several coaches teach what they were taught but never try to become better coaches.
These know it all guys can kill the game for kids. Don't interfere but ask the coach if he has something that you can see, watch, or read that may help your son understand what he is teaching.

Unless you have Steve Englishbey's DVD your library is incomplete.

I agree with linear. Englishbey's DVDs are the best instuctional videos that I have ever seen. Its really not even a close race.

I know its not popular on this site, but you should also check out ******. In my opinion, there is more valuable information on that site about swinging a bat than you could ever learn from any professional hitting instructors or videos.

Thanks to all...will check above recommendations.... Is Englishbey teaching something different than "he who must not be named" or do you think he just explains it better?

Buy the book "The Hitting Edge"
Give me a call when you have read the book.
Cost about $17 bucks.
757-714-3135

quote:

Originally posted by troy99:
Thanks to all...will check above recommendations.... Is Englishbey teaching something different than "he who must not be named" or do you think he just explains it better?

N y m a n works in the lab. Steve works in the field. Both have their purpose.

Steve is excellent at explaining and demonstrating the finer points of pelvic loading and how to incorporate them into hitting and throwing.

Don't waste money on anything else.

Englishbey...Does he have a website? How about a link if you have one.... Quick google only got message board stuff... Thanks

CoachBlu25....The mycoachonline.com site looks comprehensive...can you give me an idea what they are teaching (hitting wise). I'd hate to throw down $50 and find out it's warmed-over "squish the bug - throw the knob" ideas....which I have seen first hand are still being taught by many with wonderful bio's, including college coaches. The site gives you no clue what they are teaching... without the $$ .... anybody?

quote:

Originally posted by troy99:
Englishbey...Does he have a website? How about a link if you have one.... Quick google only got message board stuff... Thanks

No website yet. Too busy on the road teaching.

Send me a PM. I'll give you a phone number and email address for him.

Linear...'What does Steve charge to get one of his DVDs?

Mycoachonline films various coaching presentation all over the country and allows you to see these guys present.

Some are hitting others fielding and pitching.

THere are development programs and pitch sequence patterns that Miss St uses that I found helpful.

I try to compare things to a $279 bat in terms of value

quote:

Originally posted by swingbuster:
Linear...'What does Steve charge to get one of his DVDs?

I would charge you $500. But he'll probably charge you $150-$200.

quote:

Originally posted by swingbuster:

Mycoachonline films various coaching presentation all over the country and allows you to see these guys present.

SB ...I understand...what I'd like to know is ...Are they teaching in the same ballpark? I know where you/Linear/T.G/PG/AB etc. are coming from. And although you disagree frequently on a specific, you have the same "basic" ideas...(probably get ripped for that statement, but if you don't agree you should go "outthere" again and see whats being taught). Do we just call that "rotational". If so..are these guys teaching rotational? Thanks

Well ...I did not see a college coach that made a presentation that had the moves or concepts in therms and completeness you find here. total.

The team hitting goals and drills are good.

come on Linear ...you wouldn't charge me that would you?

Hel, Im still try to fig out fist senence.

$50 to learn from some of the best coaches/instructors. I think thats pretty good for a full year PLUS you get new video presentations added. Its not just 1 coach teaching hitting its from several instructors.
I keep it in my favorites and use it all the time. Camps cost $50 and up, Most teach the things you see everywhere. Tapes/DVD's are $25 and up. Most are the same but each has some new features that help. Narron teaches tracking the ball. I just viewed a sample on frozenropes.com with manny Ramirez that looks good. I've invested in many things and feel I can help any age ballplayer hit. Video taping works wonders with your swing. Depending on your age, for $20 jodyreedbaseball.com has a good site, especially if you hs age. You have to keep searching on your own to see what helps. Hitting can make or break a decent ballplayer. Spend a $100 to save 25 grand a year in college. I think its worth it.

inear you have a pm. Thanks

Be careful of a coach that teaches all kids one way. Especially if the one way is either rotational or weight-shift theories. There is a certain fingerprint about hitting. No two seem to look alike. The other bewares if you hear the following...
1. Stay inside the ball. Very few kids even know what this mean.
2. Swing level. The barrel starts above the strike zone and goes down. To swing level, you have to drop and sweep.
3. Drive everything to the opposite field. Most lessons should start with the middle pitch being driven up the middle. Then the outside and then the inside. My son loves to throw inside because of all the $60/hr lessons. He usually picks up the ball and throws it to first.
4. Stressing bottom hand and top hand. The hands work as a unit, both to initiate the bat at launch and to rip the barrel through at contact.
5. Swing hard. It's like boxing, think swing "quick" or "fast" and you may get hard. Swing hard and you get slow because of tension.
6. The lower body leads the swing. (It doesn't)however, backside rotation is important.
7. "I'm the best in the business, and everyone else is stupid." There is a hitting coach that I absolutely do not agree with. However, his son is about to hit in the majors.
8. Keep your back shoulder up. The back shoulder will absolutely be below the front shoulder at contact. It is the collapsing of the backside that should be avoided.
9. Keep the barrel above the hands. Huh? Keep the barrel above forearm level.
10. Don't move your head. The average major league player uses a leg-kick as a trigger mechanism. The average stride is 16 inches. If the average player in the major leagues starts two inches off center, then the head will move linear 1/2 the stride length + how many inches they start back because once rotation happens, the head wants to center between the feet.
11. Get a wide base. This is great for beasts, but most kids cannot hit from a wide base. It restricts the backside.

Hitting lessons are (1) diagnostic then (2) repetition. You don't need to pay a lot of money once you know what to work on.

PAPA

Some good stuff there...good job

Papa, where did you get your stats on stride lenght?

The Hitting Edge, by Robson p.37, "The average stride length in the major leagues is 15.17 inches" (I remembered wrong by 1 inch). The plate is 17 inches so the average stride is a little less than the plate length. Soooooo many instructors are teaching little to no head movement. Most mortals cannot hit with so little movement. My son can flat out hit, but the scouts watch him pitch then walk away before they see his home run or double. He has a lot of head movement and has 50% extra base hits to total hits in his high school career. The head wants to center (somewhat it depends some on tilt) between your feet when rotation occurs. The head will therefore move 1/2 stride length + how much a player if off-center at set-up. A-Rod has significant head movement as do MOST major league players. If a player is purely rotational, then there is minimum head movement. This seems to be the method of choice of most who post. I teach rotational to rotational hitters, weight-shift (this is not linear) to weight-shift hitters, and work with the combination hitters in their comfort area. Most hitting gurus who post on this website believe there is only one way to hit and everyone else is either lucky, or has the physicalness to do it or some other nonsense. Will this post get things going?

quote:

Originally posted by baseballpapa:
A-Rod has significant head movement as do MOST major league players.

Recently saw a clip of A-Rod from Rightview Pro. Instructor put a drag line across his head at toe touch. Through contact his head is completely quiet, no movement at all. Same with Edgar Martinez. If you view the clips available (you can set a line on their head)..there is an amazing correlation,,the quieter the head after toe touch the better. There are exceptions of course, but if I'm teaching a youngster, I am striving for as little head movement after toe touch as possible.. How much moves before toe touch is not an issue as long as you can be at 50/50 weight dist.

Agreed. When rotation begins, the head should not move much foreward. Some stride to a relatively stiff front side that has a slight bend and others a stiff front side that is relatively straight. However, it is just a fact that before rotation and during stride there has to be head movement unless there is little to no stride. Some hitters start with the bat high, some low. It doesn't matter so much where, but where is the barrel at launch. At toe touch you will find a line drawn through the head and down through the back knee of good hitters. Some are going to say that it does matter that the head moves before toe touch. A fast ball can gain 3 mph and offspeed may become very difficult to get on with head movement. I agree with all that, however, there seem to be two ways to play Major League ball, (1) be a beast, spread out the base, keep the head still and still be able to hit for "par". (2) be able to hit a ball in 3-D space with head movement. Par in hitting is around BA=.265, OB=.330, Slugging=.430, OPS=.760, walks 8.5% of plate appearances and Ks 16.5% of plate appearances. If I were a scout I would look for (1). However, most need momentum into the strike zone. It is interesting that almost all steroid allegations are on the hitter described in (1) and most are rotational hitters.

Linear, Apparently you can't receive PMs as I get an error message when I try to send one.

I'd like to get Englishbey's contact info. Please e mail me at rb@azdiamondreport.com

Thanks

Steve

setpro25@yahoo.com

STeve

setpro25@yahoo.com

Hitting Coaches--you need to find one you believe in and trust, otherwise it means nothing how much he knows or does not know.

He has to be good for you

I couldn't resist after reading this thread......

Anyone who understands rotation would never teach any other way to hit......


Very few understand rotation when they see it.....Much less know how to teach it......

Rotation isn't just turning the body.....There's so much more to it......There's this little thing called connection.....And something called momentum......Throw in the correct use of posture......And, you must know where, and how, the power is produced to begin with......You must be taught this stuff by someone who is very knowledgeable on rotation in the swing.......The number of people who are capable of teaching this stuff is very small.....

Without a basic understanding of the physics and bio-mechanics involved in rotation in the swing, you can't begin to have a clue as to what rotation really is.....If you think you do, you are merely kidding yourself.....

Bluedog

Where ya been bro?

Miss your input here.

Shep formerly known as Hillbilly Shep or Rat Shapiro-LOL

PS (Everybody pray for Chet Lemon) Seriously

Bluedog brings a lot to this site. He has gone out of his way to make a couple of suggestions (to me) and I don't think he is trying to change the world. He states his opinion and you can accept it or not. I value his opinion. Shep, you're right. Wish he'd post more.

http://www.baseballtips.com/13reasons.html

Can tell you all right now after reading all these posts in this thread, there are a "LOT" of good hitting ideas here and can say very diversified as well.

One thing that baseballpapa said though really got Shep's attention about rotational hitters,
can anyone guess what that would be?

Hint: It takes a very strong body to carry out a sound rotational swing.

This is true...so true.

Shep

OLDSLUGGER

Read the item on Ellis on that site at the bottom of the 13 points and then bring him up on the Baseball Cube and you tell me what you find.

I find it interesting

Rob Ellis is a great guy and a great contributor to hitting. He has a tape "The Lost Secrets of Hitting." In it he proposes a flat swing plane finish and shows most every old good hitter hit with a very low finish. This included Aaron, Williams and many others. I talked to him about it. Old golfers and baseball hitters used to drift to their front-side during the swing. They hit from the back foot to the front foot. This facilitated a low finish. He agreed with me that the modern teaching that stressed locking down the head once the rotation began would lead to the bat returning to the plane it left. In other words, the barrel starts above the strike zone, at finish it will return to the same level it left unless the batter finishes off the front foot. When was his article written? We should start a thread on Rotational vs. Weight-shift vs. Linear hitting.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
OLDSLUGGER

Read the item on Ellis on that site at the bottom of the 13 points and then bring him up on the Baseball Cube and you tell me what you find.

I find it interesting

PM me if you wish