How about a LL weight limit...

I don't agree that excluding larger kids is fair for them. I do agree tho that at that size you should be playing on a larger field with more mature players.

It's not discrimination against bigger kids when there is an obvious danger. Your answer is to put them on bigger fields. I agree. Get them off the LL field and put them on field to match their size.

That kid is bigger than 99% of the MEN playing in the Major Leagues.

I understand there are better hitters in Little League including the 6'3/215 kid on the same team. But unless this big kid is very weak (he doesn't look weak) the fact that he might not be a good hitter doesn't matter. Just his size and strength could allow him to accidently hit one to hard to react to. Maybe not very often, but it only takes once.

We use to run a wood bat league for 10-12 year olds in our town. Played on a softball field with 60' bases. We let anyone play so there were very good to no talent kids playing. Some people (parents mostly) complained about using wood bats. Then one game Ryan Sweeney (now a top prospect in AAA for the White Sox) hit one that whizzed right past the first baseman's ear. The kid playing first base didn't even move his glove. Two inches to the right and we have one very ugly mess. Hate to think what that line drive would have looked like off a metal bat.

That one play made us decide to reevaluate our 10-12 year old baseball league. You had to be there to fully understand.

But back to the great big kid... He seems to be a neat kid from a good family. What do we do when a 6'8/260 lb coordinated phenom comes along? Let him play against 11 year olds?

Saw Ryan play a few weeks ago. That kid is good!

There was a kid in my little league a couple years ago that was pitching and got hit with a line drive, broke his nose. The kid batting wasn't all that big, but as strong as an ox. He was a line drive hitter and when he got a hold of one I swear he could hit through a brick wall. He hit one like that to me when I was at short, luckily I caught it. If I was 46 ft away it would have been a mess. I don't think it's fair to separate players by size, because size doesn't guaruntee that you're good. I think a safer measure would be to either move the mound back or switch to wood.

At the short distance wood is as potent as aluminum

Why does everyone want to change things because of one kid ????

Just think if Player was a 6'8" 250# Pitcher at 46'.

And was a Thrower, And your son was the Batter.

Better yet, the Catcher. EH

Weight limits for football.
Weight limits for baseball?
Next will be height limits for basketball, there elbows may be at head level for the little kids.

The powers that be should have seen this coming when they moved the age cut off to May 1. I watched 12u baseball all summer and still can't figure out why they did it. Most of the big kids in this LLWS would not be eligible under the old rules.

Kids these days are bigger stronger faster. I have been saying for years that the LL dimensions are too small and a safety issue. When my son was 11 and was 6 feet tall and accidentally hurting other kids with his pitching and his bat, we had to leave LL, it was a joke. I could tell you many terrifying stories. LL does not need a weight limit, they need a larger field.

I'm not an expert, but I've seen players hit with wood and aluminum and the hardest balls I've seen hit were with aluminum, but that's not the point. A 46 ft pitching mound is very close for kids that are bigger than I am (I'm 16, 5-8 160, and going to be a junior). The fences were moved back, which is good, but they should follow up with moving the rest of the dimensions back.

quote:

Originally posted by deldad:
The powers that be should have seen this coming when they moved the age cut off to May 1.

Good thought but it seems to me if you start a season as a 12 year old you should be able to finish in a 12 year old division. In this situation we are talking of the 12 yr old stud. But for every 12 yr old stud with a birthday issue you will have ten other 12 yr old weaklings with the same birthday who should be playing on that little diamond.

If it's a safety issue and you don't want the big guy to hit, walk him. That's what is done at every other level of baseball when a batter who is feared gets to the plate. At this level it's only a game and what's more important? Besides it's more than likely going to get in the other teams head.

We continue to try and make rules for the kids who are the exception. The answer is 46'/60', move it back. It's safer, highlites other aspects of the game, and gets kids closer to being ready for the "big" diamond. We continue to try and make rules for the unlikely situations (line drives) or the exceptions (big kids) when we should be making rules that better the whole game.

As far as player size in football. Our local league has weight limits for each grade. If you have a kid that during the 1 time weigh-in exceeds that wieght they must play between the ends on both sides of the ball and are not allowed to carry the ball for the entire season. They can however move up to the grade where the weight allows them to carry the ball.

You say walk the bigger batter, but what about the pitcher who is a beast? And why do you think a 46' mound is safer? Am I understanding you correctly?

Maybe we are on the same page but I'm not sure. the age cut off allowed 13 year olds to play on a field that is to small I agree. Move the date back to August 1 or better September 1 then you would not have kids turning 13 and playing in a 12 year old league for 4 months.

I don't agree with the walking the big kid every time he comes to the plate. How does that kid improve.

It appears this year, more than any other the age cutoff has had the biggest effect in making the field appear to small and the safety factor more concerning.

I agree something must be done before tragedy strikes.

I don't really see how you can make the kid not play. It's not his fault he's big. Look at his Dad. I can understand switching to wood bats, but I can't see how you can discriminate against big kids.

http://www.littleleague.org/series/2006divisions/llbb/t...ansatlantic/team.htm

Great post Hoovedawg. I had a couple of overgrown studs over the years. They were still just big 12 yr olds. They were hurt by many comments other parents would make that they were too big and they shouldn't be allowed to play. I suggested to the board, why not a 5'2" to 5'7" league. Many of the board members had kids smaller and bigger that those heights. They quickly forget the idea.
That kid at 6'8" is really the exception. I wouldn't let him pitch, but he should be allowed to play.

quote:

How about a LL weight limit...

Really don't have an opinion on it as regards the players (well actually I do but it doesn't matter) as long as they don't impose one on the parents ... otherwise I would have missed a fun ride

CoachRic,

You would not let him pitch but you would let him play? I submit that you can't have it both ways. That's called copping out.

There comes a time when common sense has to rule. I cringe at the thought of an almost 300 pound person connecting with a baseball at his full force and hitting it at the face of a 100-pound 12 year old whose now about 42 feet away after throwing a pitch. Sorry, it's not discrimination, it's putting the safety of players at the forefront.

There are exceptions, and giant young players might be exactly that here. In youth football, they take the bigger kids who cannot make weight and allow them to play together in PAL leagues. Common sense.

I was coaching my oldest son six years ago when he was 12 - 5-8, 155 pounds at the time - and one night he hit a line drive back at a pitcher that flipped the kid and broke his foot. He was a full foot and 130 pounds lighter than the Saudi player as was able to break another child's foot.

Thankfully, I don't have a "horror" story to make my position stronger. There should be some action before the horror story comes to pass, especially with 6-8, 285 pound Little League players making fields look like postage stamps.

MJM

So you think that a 5'9" 155 kid can play but not a 5'10" 160 lb player.

Also do you think they should have a skill limit? A very good hitter could hurt a bad fielder.

If a little kid connects solidly with a baseball it can still hurt someone. To hit a HR in LL the ball off the bat is usually going 75 mph or so. In little league i wasn't over 5'1" but with a 75 mph hit I still really could hurt someone.


This is all comming from the smallest kid one the team. Even when I was the oldest kid I was still shorter than half of the team and lighter than 3/4 of the team.

One time when I was 8 I was 4 foot something and 80 lbs or something small like that I was pitching to a 5'10 200 lb 11 year old. I left a pitch up and paid the price. A bullet linedrive right back at me.

And not to nitpick but hes 256 lbs, not 285lbs.

Read your post. Going to move on.

I find the premise of limiting play based on size to be offensive.

I can remember being 6'1"/205 at age 12. The parents in the town that I played LL would not let me pitch or play the infield. The felt that if I hit there child that they could get hurt.

This was a valueable lesson to me when I ended up on the BOD of our local LL and listned to the mother that wanted LL to run more like the local s*****r program.

I had to explain to that mother that baseball was a game of skill. Kids need to learn to catch, throw and move with agility. It is not a game where kids just run around.

So to suggest that our game be limited based on size only insults the game, those that play it and everyone that cares about the important lessons that 12-year olds really need to learn.

I don't want to change the subject.
But I have been wondering what Baseball People think about
Player's wearing Protective Clothing, IE ( Chest protector's, Elbow pad's, Full Face Shield's for Pitcher's, ECT.)
Is this Feasible, are agains't Baseball Rule's. EH

ILVBB,

To me, the fact that you find it offensive and two bucks will buy coffee. Kids are too big for the field and the fact that Little League allows even older players this year compounds the problem. There is no insult to the game to state that a 6-8, 270 pound 12 year old with an alloy bat swinging 45 feet from another child is dangerous and should be addressed. Football addresses size as a safety issue and so should Little League.

I think the NBA and NFL should have seperate leagues dependent on size - oh yeah college also. Shouldnt all kids have the same opportunity regardless of size. How about old people leagues - could be fun to watch.

What would you do with bigger kids then? Not allow them to play? Make a league of bigger kids? How big is too big?

ND -

Make the field bigger.

Have bigger 13s play in the Junior League.

Move the age cutoff to later in the year. Too many 13s are playing on the small fields.

Catcher09 -

Apples and oranges.

I love the Little League World Series! Everyone talking about baseball being a game of skill has a good point. The big kid on the Saudi team is not yet the most skilled (Thank God). It probably would be unfair to not let him play. It’s understood he’s just a young kid.

But where should the line be drawn? What happens when a 6’8/260 lb 12-13 year old shows up and also has amazing advanced ability. I’ve seen a 13 year old hit a ball out of a professional park. Hate to think about an 11-12 year old pitcher facing that kid from about 40 feet away! Do they even have the -3 rule for bats in little league? Would it be discriminating to make the super big, talented kid play up a level in the interest of safety?

I know its baseball not football, but what if football were to say… He’s the right age so everything’s OK. Wonder how many would like to see their 5’0/85 lb son playing against the 6’8/260 lber?

These are 12 year old children. Shouldn’t safety be the major concern? Whether it is making the field bigger, wearing protective gear, making the equipment differently or changing the rules. Safety should be by far the #1 concern for all kids at that age. And I think it is in Little League Baseball. I think we will see some more changes in the rules in the future, in the interest of safety.

quote:

That 6-8 kid from the Saudi team, should he connect with one right through the box, could kill a man at 45 feet, and certainly could kill a 12 or 13 year old.

The same could be said for anyone of these kids should they connect being only 46 feet away. In one of the earlier regionals to be televised on ESPN, a kid hit a missle back thru the box headed right for the pitchers temple and thank goodness somehow the pitcher got his glove up in self-defense and caught the ball inches from his head...Frightening to say the least! I recall sitting there and thinking...besides the physical damage to the kid, would such a horrific scene have impacted the future of LL in terms of rules as well as TV coverage

As far as the rules on Bat's for LL Major's Division.
Which is the Age Group were talking about.
The Bat's are -11 to -13, 2 1/4 Diam.
27" to 31" long.
So a 27" bat can weigh as little as 16oz.
and a 31" bat could weigh 18oz. at -13.

It amazes me that kids weighing over 200 lbs can legally use an 18 oz. bat.

It appears that we are talking about one single case, one individual. He doesn't seem to possess great hitting skill. He's probably too large physically and his ability has not caught up to his growth and won't for a while.
If I saw a kid with great raw ability and that kind of size, then I would suggest he play a much higher level of ball, and he could play on a 16-under program on a full sized field.
This kid hasn't done anything to make people believe that their kid is not safe with him on the field. Did he even get a hit? If he had hurt another kid, then this whole conversation would have some validity, but there's no argument because the kid doesn't possess great ability. I am sure you can find out if he's injured any kids in the Saudi L.L.

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20060822/capt.e526c2...e4Qk9i2r4rrSoqFmtg--

Oh yeah - this makes alot of sense.

LOL

Baseballdad1228:

You are raising size as an issue of safety. In my opinion, size has nothing to do with safety.

It has been my experience that kids get hurt in baseball for one of two reasons; freak acidents and poor training.

I don't care how big a batter is if the ball is hit hard directly back at a pitcher, this is a freak accident and an unfortunate part of the game.

Young players that make bad decisions (turn into a pitch or misplay a ball) is part of learning the game. These unfortunate accidents happen not because of the size of the player, or the field or the equipment, they are due to inadequate training and lack of experience.

Your premise that the field is too small or the kid too bid is stupid!!!

LVBB,
Welcome to the HSBBW!
I understand your frustration regarding the discussion of weight limits in LL. Unfortunetly this is the LLWS and always under scrutiny for some reason or another. I know down here there was discussion regarding the larger player on sports talk radio, so it certainly has gotten attention from everyone, not just here on the HSBBW. He certainly doesn't seem to be all that powerful, but let me ask you, what if he was? If your son was pitching, would yuo NOT be concerned. And PG is correct, these are CHILDREN, safety FIRST. Chest protectors, weight limits for ages, better facial protection, CB restrictions, pitch counts ,whatever it takes for safety, is the issue.

These are opinions and should not be considered stupid by any stretch and you certainly are welcomed to yours. I would never call them stupid, evenif I thought they were.

You are correct, most things that happen are freaky by nature. But as pitchers parent, players parent, I have to agree, as in football, LL should have height and weight restrictions for age class. How about if he plowed into another player and they collided, who do you think is going to get the raw end of the deal, it's not all about pitching. No one is saying he can't play, but perhaps the next age group up. These are things that have to be addressed.

I keep wondering what HR would have said to all of this!

quote:

Your premise that the field is too small or the kid too bid is stupid!!!

That would be your opinion. Why would someone who thought differently be stupid?

I suggest a compromise! Since LL doesn't want to change the size of it's fields, perhaps they could change to wood bats.
Personally, I would love for my son to play with a wood bat. He has played in wood bat tournaments and it is an eye opener.


One other point. I could take the big Saudi kid to my son's hitting instructor and in 2 weeks he could be a STUD!!!!

I think they should make the field bigger. Also, a 256 lb kid swinging an 18 oz bat? That's like swinging a toothpick. He needs a bat way bigger than that.

ILVbB said, "I find the premise of limiting play based on size to be offensive." Well we certainly wouldn't want to offend you. Look at this logically. You let anyone play and no one gets hurt. No problem, right. You let these, I have to be careful here, big kids play and they put one back where it came from. What's going to happen? Lawsuit!!! Now some of you will say that you sign release forms and accept responsibility. One problem, some low life attorney will convince a jury that someone "should have known" there was a potential for serious injury. And they will trott out experts to prove their point. Fix it before it gets to that point. Make the field bigger, play real baseball and institute size restrictions or age/weight classifications.

I disagree. How big is too big? And there would be no lawsuit. The law is the law. Most lawyers wouldn't even take it to court.