Interesting topic ... I'd like to hear a catcher's persepctive ... maybe Orlando could jump into this one.
Lacking any better terminology, when throwing sliders/curves, we always had our catcher set up for the "initial trajectory" of the pitch ... where he wanted it to start out... Same with tailing two-seamers. If a pitcher is getting 3-4 inches of movement on his 2-seamer he still needs an initial target. This would present an apparent illusion of missing his spot to an outside observer instead of nailing the pitch within an inch or so.
Interesting premise that they use in their software, but the question is how to really use it.
Thanks a bunch.quote:coach_22
Yeah, I've seen stats showing righty (pro/college) batters do worst with down/in. So many variables. Hard to know for sure even with a sample of 10s of thousands of pitches over many years.
The differences between the 4 corners gets very complicated depending on batter, pitcher and pitch. And maybe other, yet unknown, factors.
There are only two easy rules: Down the middle is bad and 90 mph is good.
It appears that pitchers would benefit by developing control far exceeding what most pitchers and coaches currently consider adequate.
How does this rule sound?
If the mitt moves, you lose
H3, valid points. Some pitchers use the mitt as their initial aim point. Others will pick some other aim point. Guess that varies with the battery.
This is a complex subject. Even with the best of software.
mic, not sure the 90 mph is a rule, much less easily considered one. 90 mph straight & flat is most definitely not good.
Sometimes a great pitch to a great location gets hammered. And sometimes a mistake makes the batter - not the pitcher - look silly.
Pitchers cannot hit their spot every time. Even if you allowed for all of the factors discussed herein. They do well to hit it a majority of the time.
Is the goal 100%. Of course. But it really ticks me off to see the following situation:
0-2 count. Catcher sets up outside. Pitcher throws one that ends up going over the plate. Batter smashes it.
Coach calls time out, proceeds to go to the mound and chew out the pitcher for having thrown that pitch on 0-2.
Does the coach really think the pitcher was trying to throw it down the middle? That the pitcher was that stupid? Of course not. Sometimes you miss outside, sometimes you miss inside. It happens. Dads are worse about this than coaches.
Command comes through repeatable and sound mechanics. Achieving this requires some natural talent, just as with any aspect of any sport.
This is a complex subject. Even with the best of software.
mic, not sure the 90 mph is a rule, much less easily considered one. 90 mph straight & flat is most definitely not good.
Sometimes a great pitch to a great location gets hammered. And sometimes a mistake makes the batter - not the pitcher - look silly.
Pitchers cannot hit their spot every time. Even if you allowed for all of the factors discussed herein. They do well to hit it a majority of the time.
Is the goal 100%. Of course. But it really ticks me off to see the following situation:
0-2 count. Catcher sets up outside. Pitcher throws one that ends up going over the plate. Batter smashes it.
Coach calls time out, proceeds to go to the mound and chew out the pitcher for having thrown that pitch on 0-2.
Does the coach really think the pitcher was trying to throw it down the middle? That the pitcher was that stupid? Of course not. Sometimes you miss outside, sometimes you miss inside. It happens. Dads are worse about this than coaches.
Command comes through repeatable and sound mechanics. Achieving this requires some natural talent, just as with any aspect of any sport.
i saw where Greg Maddux was asked about control,and said he only puts the ball where hes wants it 30-40% of the time. And thats from the best control pitcher of all time.
Could not agree more, Texan! Great input AHSpitcher! Maddux has to be one of the best control guys of all time. That says a lot that even he's only 30-40% on the money, and I bet he's right.
I'll try to chart some mlb games from video tape some time and post the results.
The bottom line is that now that command is measurable (even if it's a little subjective) we can begin to gauge PROGRESS of our pitchers. I love the fact that one of our pitchers went from a 20 commmand rating last season to a 28 so far this fall in our intrasquads. They're not all going to light up the radar gun, so this gives everybody a chance to progress in what probably matters most - command!
I'll try to chart some mlb games from video tape some time and post the results.
The bottom line is that now that command is measurable (even if it's a little subjective) we can begin to gauge PROGRESS of our pitchers. I love the fact that one of our pitchers went from a 20 commmand rating last season to a 28 so far this fall in our intrasquads. They're not all going to light up the radar gun, so this gives everybody a chance to progress in what probably matters most - command!
If archers were pitchers - Tom Seaver would still have put them all to shame.
Including that William Tell dude.
He was accurate - but he didnt have a slider.
Including that William Tell dude.
He was accurate - but he didnt have a slider.
Got to go with bbscout.
In my son's case he never called the pitch The catcher always called the game and the coach would call some of the pitches. My son never called a pitch off which I tried to get him to do on a rare occasion. He also used the catcher's body to throw to. The catcher who often threw his glove out to tell him where he wanted it but he usually pulled it back until the pitch was delivered.
To me the catcher would be the only one who could really tell you if he is hitting his spots. many of my son's curve balls hit the dirt in front of the plate. Lots of people call that not hitting your spot but that is where he wants it. One coach we had used to tell the pitchers if they threw a strike on a low ball count for the 3rd strike he would bench you. A lot of people don't realize this.
The catcher is the only one who knows.
In my son's case he never called the pitch The catcher always called the game and the coach would call some of the pitches. My son never called a pitch off which I tried to get him to do on a rare occasion. He also used the catcher's body to throw to. The catcher who often threw his glove out to tell him where he wanted it but he usually pulled it back until the pitch was delivered.
To me the catcher would be the only one who could really tell you if he is hitting his spots. many of my son's curve balls hit the dirt in front of the plate. Lots of people call that not hitting your spot but that is where he wants it. One coach we had used to tell the pitchers if they threw a strike on a low ball count for the 3rd strike he would bench you. A lot of people don't realize this.
The catcher is the only one who knows.
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
One coach we had used to tell the pitchers if they threw a strike on a low ball count for the 3rd strike he would bench you.
If the coach actually did that, what an idiot. See the comments in my post above.
{That's like the coach who tells the catcher to set up 2' off the plate (literally) on every 0-2 and 1-2 count. Batters don't swing at a pitch that far off the plate. Why not just tell the blue to give the batter a ball? All that coach is doing is running up the pitch count.}
The comments are valid on the difficulty of knowing where the pitch was intended to go. But it's not that hard to know the pitcher missed when the catcher sets up on one side of the plate and the pitch goes to the opposite side. Saw that a fair amount in the World Series.
Yes it sounds idiotic but I think he was concern about pitchers throwing one down the middle of the plate trying to get the 3rd strike.
I don't remember him actually doing that.
I don't remember him actually doing that.
I hear what you're saying Bobblehead and BBscout. I guess you'd have to see how this thing works. You can pick ANY spot as the intended spot. It's just a tap of the screen. When I defined "Hit Spot" as "glove didn't move" it was a generalization that really applies to fastballs where the catcher sets up on one corner or the other.
We use out-of-zone locations as intended spots as well. For 0-2 offspeed pitches, we'll set the area under the zone as the intended spot. When the catcher crouches up the way they do when they want a pitch over the hands, we'll tap the area ABOVE the strike zone.
I agree with Texan, again. I just don't believe a pitcher would intentionally throw a pitch to the opposite side of the plate from the catcher's set up position. He missed his spot. It happens.
We use out-of-zone locations as intended spots as well. For 0-2 offspeed pitches, we'll set the area under the zone as the intended spot. When the catcher crouches up the way they do when they want a pitch over the hands, we'll tap the area ABOVE the strike zone.
I agree with Texan, again. I just don't believe a pitcher would intentionally throw a pitch to the opposite side of the plate from the catcher's set up position. He missed his spot. It happens.
Coach22 thats a great program. I wonder if the cather could sigal a hit or a miss that could be imputed into the palm ?
That might be a little much in a real game, but certainly in the bullpen & intrasquads we can (and do) get close to if not 100% accuracy in our charting.
I like charting our actual games off our game video. If I miss a pitch, just play it back - slo mo if necessary. I find it to be great homework for me, personally. Not only to give the reports to our pitchers, but the film often reveals things on our hitters and little things in the game that we need to go over.
I like charting our actual games off our game video. If I miss a pitch, just play it back - slo mo if necessary. I find it to be great homework for me, personally. Not only to give the reports to our pitchers, but the film often reveals things on our hitters and little things in the game that we need to go over.